John 6:66 - Why did many disciples stop following Jesus?

[Yan]

Today, many believers told they were in Christ but by the act they were still lived as a fleshy mortal. Whosoever made a distinction between churches then their worship to God is for nothing and wasted. I was experiencing the God's work in eucharist communion of the bread of life and it delivers me from the pain of demonic attack.
So, stop of being hypocrites to each other because God doesn't show a favoritism but mankind did. I'd noticed an advantage and disadvantage of both Catholic and Protestant, so nobody of us is a whole. God is objective to all mankind and he put a standard of "Love thy neighbours" as a main law as a Christ disciples. Our warfare is against our own ego and fleshy desire that make a war to each of our soul/spirit, make that as a main concern of our faith in Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:1-9 (NET)
1. So, brothers and sisters, I could not speak to you as spiritual people, but instead as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ.
2. I fed you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready. In fact, you are still not ready,
3. for you are still influenced by the flesh. For since there is still jealousy and dissension among you, are you not influenced by the flesh and behaving like unregenerate people?
4. For whenever someone says, “I am with Paul,” or “I am with Apollos,” are you not merely human?
5. What is Apollos, really? Or what is Paul? Servants through whom you came to believe, and each of us in the ministry the Lord gave us.
6. I planted, Apollos watered, but God caused it to grow.
7. So neither the one who plants counts for anything, nor the one who waters, but God who causes the growth.
8. The one who plants and the one who waters work as one, but each will receive his reward according to his work.
9. We are coworkers belonging to God. You are God’s field, God’s building.

 

[Tong2020]

the devil can pull verses out and mix them to mean whatever he wants

The Holy Spirit takes care of me from the devil who does that.

Tong
R1265

 

[Tong2020]

Would the US government allow anyone to interpret the US constitution without the court system guiding them? If anybody can determine law by their own interpretation, we would have complete chaos! This is what we have in non-catholic christian religions, interpretation chaos. Though you may have a good heart and mean well, how many people have you misguided over the years.

If there were people whom I could have misguided, that would be nothing compared to the billions in the Catholic Church.

You need to put common sense into play my friend.

Here's some common sense:

• Jesus established a Church and gave the Church the keys to the kingdom of heaven, along with binding and losing authority - Matt 16
• Only the Catholic Church can claim that it was established by Jesus
• The early Church Fathers are Catholic
• Who owned back then and still owns the ancient write scripture scrolls? The Church did and still does; located at the Vatican in their massive library
• The Bible was not created until around the 4th century
  
• If there was no bible, who did the teaching? The Church that Jesus established did the teaching with the scripture scrolls
• Very few people could read back then
• There was no printing press; it took a year for a scholar writer to write out the Bible
• The Bible was compiled by the Catholic Church using her binding and losing authority, which you believe in indirectly
  
• Thousand of writings were voted on; the Church used her binding and losing during several Catholic Councils including the Council of Rome to compile the Bible
• You follow an ex catholic priest via the protestant reform of the 1500s - a human being
• etc...

Perhaps you, try to understand truth in scriptures using your natural human perceptive senses and human wisdom, common to the natural man. And that makes the difference. For the scriptures says:

1 Cor. 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Anyway, I'll give a comment on the Catholic common sense you say there:

<<<Jesus established a Church and gave the Church the keys to the kingdom of heaven, along with binding and losing authority - Matt 16>>>

Jesus Christ is building His church. Scriptures refer to it/her as church of God, churches of Christ, or church of the living God. The apostles never called the church, Catholic Church.

<<<Only the Catholic Church can claim that it was established by Jesus>>>

Every church, as were those mentioned in scriptures (such as the church in Jerusalem, the church in Rome, the church in Ephesus, the church in Colosse, the church in Thessalonica, the church in Antioch, the church in Galatia, the church in Corinth, the churches throughout all Judea, Galilee, and Samaria), are the churches of God, the churches of Christ, members all of the church, that Christ is building.

<<<The early Church Fathers are Catholic>>>

Church Fathers? Catholic? Scriptures speaks of no such Church Fathers or "Popes" then in the early church during the time of the apostles, nor scriptures speaks of any to be in the future. But we have this in scriptures:

Matthew 23:8 But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren. 9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10 And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ.

<<<Who owned back then and still owns the ancient write scripture scrolls? The Church did and still does; located at the Vatican in their massive library>>>

So? For what profit is it in that, even perhaps owning the whole world? Did the Catholic church authored the scriptures? Do they really own the scriptures?

<<<The Bible was not created until around the 4th century>>>

The words of God were given over time since the beginning of the world, to manKind. Scripture is given by inspiration of God way way back before the 4th century, and God preserved them through the years. It was there all along.

<<<If there was no bible, who did the teaching? The Church that Jesus established did the teaching with the scripture scrolls>>>

That is merely hypothetical. There was a time that there was no Scriptures, yet there had always been a Teacher. Do you not know who? After the ascension of Christ, do you not read in scriptures who guides and teaches the truth - the Holy Spirit.

<<<Very few people could read back then. There was no printing press; it took a year for a scholar writer to write out the Bible>>>

So? God had no problem with that.

<<<The Bible was compiled by the Catholic Church using her binding and losing authority, which you believe in indirectly. Thousand of writings were voted on; the Church used her binding and losing during several Catholic Councils including the Council of Rome to compile the Bible>>>

Perhaps. So? You seem to glory in that. But who makes one differ from another?

<<<You follow an ex catholic priest via the protestant reform of the 1500s - a human being>>>

I follow Jesus Christ. Is Jesus Christ an ex catholic priest? You seem to follow a Catholic priest.

<<<etc.>>>

Etc.

Tong
R1266

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Is it fair to say we have a dead liturgy if you have never been to one?

I answered that already.....

I've been subjected to enough dry, boring, dead liturgy in the Protestant church to know I don't need any more. I will never go back to a church like that. The Spirit of God inhabits the meeting of the saints when conducted the way Paul says to do it. I know this from experience.

I will never go back to a church that doesn't operate in the open and informal (but controlled) way that Paul says to operate in. Never.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

All who believe are welcome to come to the Feast,

However, we have a duty to ensure one does belive

For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself

And that they are properly prepared

But when the king came in to meet the guests he saw a man there not dressed in a wedding garment.

He said to him, 'My friend, how is it that you came in here without a wedding garment?' But he was reduced to silence.

Then the king said to his attendants, 'Bind his hands and feet, and cast him into the darkness outside, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth.'

And that they are properly disposed to receive the King of Glory,

Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord

Do you believe?

The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." Let the hearer say, "Come." Let the one who thirsts come forward, and the one who wants it receive the gift of life-giving water

Peace be with you!

This is some pretty twisted up theology here.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Come to the Paschal Vigil this year and see. Try the Orthodox liturgy if you prefer...
experience the meeting of the Eternal and His people...

Romans 14:17-18
17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18For whoever serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.

 

[Philip James]

So, how does this work?

One must be baptised,
for in this 'nuptial bath' we are cleansed and given our wedding garment..
And Chrismated, that is sealed by the Holy Spirit.
Thus bathed and perfumed one is ready to be presented 'a holy and pure virgin' to our Lord, present in the Eucharist.

Some period of cathechisis may be required to ensure one knows what it is that they are professing at their baptism.

Could someone who is not a member of the Catholic Church "come to the Feast?" IOW, could they partake of the "Eucharist"?

When we say 'amen' to the reception of the Eucharist, we are professing that it is truly the Body of Christ that we receive, that we are members of His body, the Church Catholic and that we hold the catholic faith ( What We Believe | USCCB )

Our Orthodox brethren who understand and hold these things would be welcome, however they would need the permission of their bishop to do so, that all might be done in obedience.

Others who have been validly baptized but not confirmed in the Faith would ordinarily be required to receive the sacrament of Confirmation (Chrismation) before being admitted to the table.
Again, some period of catechisis may or may not be required to ensure one knows what it is they are professing.

Peace be with you!

 

[Prayer Warrior]

One must be baptised,
for in this 'nuptial bath' we are cleansed and given our wedding garment..
And Chrismated, that is sealed by the Holy Spirit.
Thus bathed and perfumed one is ready to be presented 'a holy and pure virgin' to our Lord, present in the Eucharist.

Some period of cathechisis may be required to ensure one knows what it is that they are professing at their baptism.


When we say 'amen' to the reception of the Eucharist, we are professing that it is truly the Body of Christ that we receive, that we are members of His body, the Church Catholic and that we hold the catholic faith ( What We Believe | USCCB )

Our Orthodox brethren who understand and hold these things would be welcome, however they would need the permission of their bishop to do so, that all might be done in obedience.

Others who have been validly baptized but not confirmed in the Faith would ordinarily be required to receive the sacrament of Confirmation (Chrismation) before being admitted to the table.
Again, some period of catechisis may or may not be required to ensure one knows what it is they are professing.

Peace be with you!

Hi, Phillip, thanks for answering my question (Could someone who is not a member of the Catholic Church "come to the Feast? IOW, could they partake of the "Eucharist"?).

So, basically, the answer is no. Someone (other than an "Orthodox brethren") would have to be confirmed in the Catholic Church (i.e. become a Catholic) in order to take communion in the Catholic Church. It wouldn't matter whether the person was a believer or not.

So, even though you said this:

All who believe are welcome to come to the Feast....

...the truth is that I, as a baptized believer in Jesus Christ, would NOT be welcome to the feast at a Catholic Church because I am not a Catholic (i.e. have not been through the Catholic confirmation process).

BTW, I assume that someone like Nancy Pelosi, who has fought to keep abortion legal, would be welcome to the feast because she is a Catholic. At least, she says that she is a practicing Catholic.

 

[Truth1945]

If there were people whom I could have misguided, that would be nothing compared to the billions in the Catholic Church.



Perhaps you, try to understand truth in scriptures using your natural human perceptive senses and human wisdom, common to the natural man. And that makes the difference. For the scriptures says:

1 Cor. 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Anyway, I'll give a comment on the Catholic common sense you say there:

<<<Jesus established a Church and gave the Church the keys to the kingdom of heaven, along with binding and losing authority - Matt 16>>>

Jesus Christ is building His church. Scriptures refer to it/her as church of God, churches of Christ, or church of the living God. The apostles never called the church, Catholic Church.

<<<Only the Catholic Church can claim that it was established by Jesus>>>

Every church, as were those mentioned in scriptures (such as the church in Jerusalem, the church in Rome, the church in Ephesus, the church in Colosse, the church in Thessalonica, the church in Antioch, the church in Galatia, the church in Corinth, the churches throughout all Judea, Galilee, and Samaria), are the churches of God, the churches of Christ, members all of the church, that Christ is building.

<<<The early Church Fathers are Catholic>>>

Church Fathers? Catholic? Scriptures speaks of no such Church Fathers or "Popes" then in the early church during the time of the apostles, nor scriptures speaks of any to be in the future. But we have this in scriptures:

Matthew 23:8 But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren. 9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10 And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ.

<<<Who owned back then and still owns the ancient write scripture scrolls? The Church did and still does; located at the Vatican in their massive library>>>

So? For what profit is it in that, even perhaps owning the whole world? Did the Catholic church authored the scriptures? Do they really own the scriptures?

<<<The Bible was not created until around the 4th century>>>

The words of God were given over time since the beginning of the world, to manKind. Scripture is given by inspiration of God way way back before the 4th century, and God preserved them through the years. It was there all along.

<<<If there was no bible, who did the teaching? The Church that Jesus established did the teaching with the scripture scrolls>>>

That is merely hypothetical. There was a time that there was no Scriptures, yet there had always been a Teacher. Do you not know who? After the ascension of Christ, do you not read in scriptures who guides and teaches the truth - the Holy Spirit.

<<<Very few people could read back then. There was no printing press; it took a year for a scholar writer to write out the Bible>>>

So? God had no problem with that.

<<<The Bible was compiled by the Catholic Church using her binding and losing authority, which you believe in indirectly. Thousand of writings were voted on; the Church used her binding and losing during several Catholic Councils including the Council of Rome to compile the Bible>>>

Perhaps. So? You seem to glory in that. But who makes one differ from another?

<<<You follow an ex catholic priest via the protestant reform of the 1500s - a human being>>>

I follow Jesus Christ. Is Jesus Christ an ex catholic priest? You seem to follow a Catholic priest.

<<<etc.>>>

Etc.

Tong
R1266

WOW! I'll pray for you buddy!

 

[Tong2020]

WOW! I'll pray for you buddy!

Thanks, but no thanks. I wouldn't want me to be an occasion for anyone to pray to God, the Father, other than through Jesus Christ, but through some saints.

I'll be praying for you instead, as well as for Philip James, and all those who think and lean on natural human perceptive senses and human wisdom in understanding the words of God in scriptures. In love, I'll be praying to God, the Father, through Jesus Christ, and to ask that you all may be given with the knowledge of His word, in all wisdom and spiritual understanding. For no one can destroy the wisdom (human wisdom that is) of the wise and bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent, except God.

Tong
R1267

 

[Tong2020]

Hi, Phillip, thanks for answering my question (Could someone who is not a member of the Catholic Church "come to the Feast?

I am happy for you in that @Philip James at least answers your questions, and to the point. In my case, I am sad that he ignores some of my question despite my repeated request.

Tong
R1268

 

[Truth1945]

Thanks, but no thanks. I wouldn't want me to be an occasion for anyone to pray to God, the Father, other than through Jesus Christ, but through some saints.

I'll be praying for you instead, as well as for Philip James, and all those who think and lean on natural human perceptive senses and human wisdom in understanding the words of God in scriptures. In love, I'll be praying to God, the Father, through Jesus Christ, and to ask that you all may be given with the knowledge of His word, in all wisdom and spiritual understanding. For no one can destroy the wisdom (human wisdom that is) of the wise and bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent, except God.

Tong
R1267

Mother Mary, I pray for Tong that he unhardens his heart and seeks for the truth in your Son, please take these prayers to Jesus, and Jesus to the Father, amen! God Bless you Tong with great love!

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Mother Mary, I pray for Tong that he unhardens his heart and seeks for the truth in your Son, please take these prayers to Jesus, and Jesus to the Father, amen! God Bless you Tong with great love!

The GOOD NEWS is that you can pray to God the Son, Jesus, directly! The veil of the Temple separating man from God was torn in two.

 

[Tong2020]

The GOOD NEWS is that you can pray to God the Son, Jesus, directly! The veil of the Temple separating man from God was torn in two.

I guess it's obvious they know that as well. For if they pray to Mary and those men who have died (saints) to who they call and pray to, more so then they can pray to Jesus. It puzzles me why, when they know they have access to the Father through Jesus Christ, that they choose to do that instead of directly honoring the Son.

Have you read in scriptures of any teaching that the living can call and pray to the dead? When say the apostle Paul or Peter died, was there any incident recorded in scriptures that speaks of the remaining apostles or even of the brethren calling and praying to Paul or Peter asking him/them to take their prayers to Jesus, to in turn take their prayers to the Father?

Tong
R1269

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Have you read in scriptures of any teaching that the living can call and pray to the dead? When say the apostle Paul or Peter died, was there any incident recorded in scriptures that speaks of the remaining apostles or even of the brethren calling and praying to Paul or Peter asking him/them to take their prayers to Jesus, to in turn take their prayers to the Father?

I don't know of any passages in the Bible directing us to pray to people who have departed this earth.

 

[Truth1945]

I guess it's obvious they know that as well. For if they pray to Mary and those men who have died (saints) to who they call and pray to, more so then they can pray to Jesus. It puzzles me why, when they know they have access to the Father through Jesus Christ, that they choose to do that instead of directly honoring the Son.

Have you read in scriptures of any teaching that the living can call and pray to the dead? When say the apostle Paul or Peter died, was there any incident recorded in scriptures that speaks of the remaining apostles or even of the brethren calling and praying to Paul or Peter asking him/them to take their prayers to Jesus, to in turn take their prayers to the Father?

Tong
R1269

If you are a true Christian, after you die you are raised to eternal life. God is the God of the living, not the God of the dead. Nobody is dead in heaven! Was not Moses and Elijah alive communicating with Jesus during the Transfiguration?

 

[Truth1945]

I don't know of any passages in the Bible directing us to pray to people who have departed this earth.

SAINTS AND INTERCESSORY PRAYER - Scripture Catholic

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Was not Moses and Elijah alive communicating with Jesus during the Transfiguration?

I believe that Jesus was in heaven with them talking to them. He can do that. He's God.

But I don't know of any scriptures that instruct us to PRAY TO people who have passed on.... To ask for people on earth to pray FOR us or to offer to pray FOR people on earth is not the same thing as praying TO people, whether they are on earth or not.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said:
I guess it's obvious they know that as well. For if they pray to Mary and those men who have died (saints) to who they call and pray to, more so then they can pray to Jesus. It puzzles me why, when they know they have access to the Father through Jesus Christ, that they choose to do that instead of directly honoring the Son.

Have you read in scriptures of any teaching that the living can call and pray to the dead? When say the apostle Paul or Peter died, was there any incident recorded in scriptures that speaks of the remaining apostles or even of the brethren calling and praying to Paul or Peter asking him/them to take their prayers to Jesus, to in turn take their prayers to the Father?

If you are a true Christian, after you die you are raised to eternal life. God is the God of the living, not the God of the dead. Nobody is dead in heaven! Was not Moses and Elijah alive communicating with Jesus during the Transfiguration?

Even if that were the case, which issue I will not here talk about, it does not refute the argument that there is no scriptures that speaks of such teaching that the living can call to departed souls such as Moses or Elijah, nor was there any incident recorded in scriptures that speaks of an apostle who called and prayed to Peter or Paul asking him/them to take his prayers to Jesus and then Jesus to the Father.

Sorry, but I would always rely in God's words in scriptures. That is why, when you teach something, I always request for reference scriptures.

Tong
R1270

 

[Tong2020]

Truthcampaign.org said:
Was not Moses and Elijah alive communicating with Jesus during the Transfiguration?

I believe that Jesus was in heaven with them talking to them. He can do that. He's God.

But I don't know of any scriptures that instruct us to PRAY TO people who have passed on.... To ask for people on earth to pray FOR us or to offer to pray FOR people on earth is not the same thing as praying TO people, whether they are on earth or not.

Just a comment. Scriptures says of that as being a vision (Mt.17:9). Besides, that vision was really about Jesus Christ (Mt. 17:5). And it's far off the subject of praying to departed souls.

Tong
R1271