John 6:66 - Why did many disciples stop following Jesus?

[Ferris Bueller]

Hebrews 13:9
9Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings, for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace and not by foods of no value to those devoted to them.

please go into detail about this scripture and not pull verses out to mislead people

You have been carried away by the strange teachings of your church that says the believer draws spiritual strength and closeness to God through the accuracy of it's religious ceremonies--eating and drinking, etc. Paul (presumably the author of Hebrews) tells us it is grace itself that strengthens and builds up the heart of the believer. We don't draw close to God through foods and various carnal aspects of worship. That is the very system of worship that Christ came to do away with. We don't draw close to God that way anymore.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said:
The words of God were given over time since the beginning of the world, to manKind. Scripture is given by inspiration of God way way back before the 4th century, and God preserved them through the years. It was there all along.

so bibles came falling from heaven into books stores, and apps. etc... you need FACTS my friend. Not stories made up in your mind

Those are no story made up in my mind. If you need help finding in scriptures, that the words of God were given over time since the beginning of the world, to manKind, just say so.

You may have facts as you say they are. However, you seem to deny the fact that no one owns the Bible. The author is the rightful owner, that is, God. Another fact is that, it is God who caused His words to be put in scriptures, through those whom He had chosen and inspired to accomplish the same. There is no question that it is also God who preserved these scriptures and be made into a Bible. Another fact is that, having a copy of the Bible does not mean the possessor is saved.

Tong
R1275

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said:
Every church, as were those mentioned in scriptures (such as the church in Jerusalem, the church in Rome, the church in Ephesus, the church in Colosse, the church in Thessalonica, the church in Antioch, the church in Galatia, the church in Corinth, the churches throughout all Judea, Galilee, and Samaria), are the churches of God, the churches of Christ, members all of the church, that Christ is building.

and who owns those Churches?

Who owns those churches? Strange question there. Do I need to tell you? God of course owns those churches.

Tong
R1276

 

[Ferris Bueller]

1 John 2:25-29
This is the promise which He Himself made to us: eternal life.
These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you. As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you

so you are the anointed? Tell me how? By your own willful interpretations?

John's not saying we have the power to teach ourselves and develop accurate and truthful interpretations on our own. We know that by the simple fact that the Bible talks about the necessity for the gift and office of teaching. What John is saying is all true believers have the anointing of the Holy Spirit to discern whether or not what we are being taught is truth or if it's error. This is in fulfillment of prophecy when it was forecast that the days would end when the people of God had to rely solely upon their teachers to tell them what was true and what was not. We are no longer at the mercy of misguided and corrupt leaders to tell us what is true and what is not. The Holy Spirit has been sent to the people of God to do that now. So when we read the Bible, or listen to a religious leader, or talk with a fellow believer, we now have it within ourselves to be able to discern whether or not what we are being taught is truth or not. We don't have to rely on the teacher himself to tell us that what he is saying is truth as your church says we must.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said:
After the ascension of Christ, do you not read in scriptures who guides and teaches the truth - the Holy Spirit.

it was the Church that guided and teached the truth. Not some person with his own interpretations

That's what you say and believe. But scriptures say that it is the Holy Spirit. See John 14:26 and 1 Cor. 2:13.

Tong
R1277

 

[Tong2020]

Then why did Jesus start a Church, guided by the Holy Spirit? Did he do bad? Gave you wrong direction?

1 Tim 3:15 But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.

Perhaps you forgot about false brethren, even antiChrists, and false teachers?

Tong
R1278

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Perhaps you forgot about false brethren, even antiChrists, and false teachers?

Tong
R1278

Individual believers in the true church of God now circumvent all of these through the discernment given to them by the Holy Spirit. It was not that way before the Holy Spirit was given. The people of God were at the mercy of these corrupt and misguided and evil people. God has set his people free from these evil people.

 

[farouk]

It is humbling to learn that we are drawn by pure grace, not cooperative merit, and many who professed could not bear to admit this humbling truth.

 

[Tong2020]

Ferris Bueller said: ↑
But it is the Holy Spirit that gives discernment of truth. The true church of God does not need a teacher to tell them that what they are taught is truth or not. The Holy Spirit does that now in this New Covenant.

Then why did Jesus start a Church?

Jesus did not start a 'Church'. Jesus builds His church.
______________________
Prayer Warrior said: ↑
1 John 2:25-29
This is the promise which He Himself made to us: eternal life.
These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you. As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you

so you are the anointed? Tell me how? By your own willful interpretations?

Why, don't you know whom John refers to the "you" in 1 John 2:27? If you'll read 1 John, you will learn that the "you" refers to those who are born of God. The "you" are the children of God. Are you one of them? If you claim you are, then you are anointed. And if you are anointed, John is telling you there, "you do not need that anyone teach you".

@Ferris Bueller @Prayer Warrior

Tong
R1279

 

[Taken]

John 6:66 - Why did many disciples stop following Jesus?
OP^

John 6:
[66] From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

Many that were following Jesus were "following" Him, to See Him perform miracles.

In the previous texts, men were being healed, a large crowd had been fed...that was acceptable to men.

BUT...when Jesus began speaking About Himself Specific ... that;
He came down from Heaven...
He came to give His Flesh...
Men would need to Eat His Flesh...
Men would need to Drink His Blood...
• Many in the crowds;
did NOT believe Him, NOR understand Him.

• Jesus KNEW Some DID NOT Believe Him...
"AND Said SO" to the Crowd.

[64] But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

• Jesus Further said,

[65] And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

It stands to Reason; Those who Did Not Believe Jesus Words (or perhaps were creeped out by the prospect that God would require them to Eat the Flesh and Drink the Blood of Jesus);
Did Not want associate with Jesus, or be seen in His company.

The next Question is
WHY did some men continue to follow Jesus?

Because- IMO-
"They Listened."

Eat Jesus' Flesh, Drink Jesus' Blood, out of context does sound creepy.

However IN CONTEXT:
Jesus prefaced what He said "with the following";

John 6:
[63] It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life.

• Some Listened and Understood Jesus' was speaking From the Spirit. <--- they continued following.

• Some listened and their Understanding was literal Eating of Jesus' Flesh and literal Drinking of His Blood. <--- they walked away.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Tong2020]

Individual believers in the true church of God now circumvent all of these through the discernment given to them by the Holy Spirit.

What do you mean? Please clarify.

Tong
R1280

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I tried to phrase it so you'd see I wasn't saying we don't need teachers. What we don't need is someone to tell us what we're being taught is the truth or not. The Holy Spirit tells us what teaching is truth and what teaching is not. That's what 1 John 2:26-27 is 'teaching' us. I don't need a Pope, or a pastor, or a reverend to tell me what teachings out there are truth and which ones are not. I need teachers to teach me things, but it is the Holy Spirit that tells me if what I'm hearing is truth or not.

These verses come to mind from Galatians 5:

It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.
Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth? This persuasion did not come from Him who calls you. A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough. I have confidence in you in the Lord that you will adopt no other view; but the one who is disturbing you will bear his judgment, whoever he is.
​

Of course, Paul is addressing adherence to the Mosaic Law, esp. pertaining to circumcision, but I believe that the "yoke of slavery" can also be man-made traditions and teachings that serve to keep us from the freedom given to us by Jesus Christ.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Perhaps you forgot about false brethren, even antiChrists, and false teachers?

Individual believers in the true church of God now circumvent all of these through the discernment given to them by the Holy Spirit.

What do you mean? Please clarify.

Tong
R1280

What I mean is I don't think there is, today, a movement or denomination that is as pure and protected from falsehood as God has made some individual believers. In my opinion, the truth is not being wholly represented by a distinct movement or group of people at this time. I think that's because we are very near Christ's return.

 

[Philip James]

The truth is that the church cannot possibly KNOW FOR SURE who is and isn't "properly disposed" to take communion.

Perhaps,

But Jesus is not fooled. He knows those who recognize Him and those who don't. Those who partake worthily and those who don't. Those who act in obedience and those who don't..

I think I will leave it there and bow out of this discussion.

Sister,
I would like to thank you for a civil and pleasent discourse.

I rejoice with you in Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour,

May He bless you and keep you ever close to His heart.

Peace be with you!

 

[Tong2020]

These verses come to mind from Galatians 5:

It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.
Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth? This persuasion did not come from Him who calls you. A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough. I have confidence in you in the Lord that you will adopt no other view; but the one who is disturbing you will bear his judgment, whoever he is.
​

Of course, Paul is addressing adherence to the Mosaic Law, esp. pertaining to circumcision, but I believe that the "yoke of slavery" can also be man-made traditions and teachings that serve to keep us from the freedom given to us by Jesus Christ.

In my reading, the "yoke of slavery" that Paul referred to pertains to the "yoke of slavery" of the Mosaic Law. No doubt, Paul there was attacking the Judaizers' teaching about circumcision. The yoke there is not different from the yoke spoken of in the following scriptures, which pertains to circumcision connected to the Mosaic Law. Besides, Paul was talking about a liberty, about which is there found in verse 3 as concerning the Law and not of some man made doctrines and traditions.

Acts 15:10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

I would say that making the "yoke of slavery, with reference to Gal. 5, as to refer to man-made traditions and teachings which does not come from God is a bit going beyond the said scriptures. Though I could agree that man-made traditions and teachings could serve as to keep us from the freedom given to us by Jesus Christ, but in a different context to that of Galatians 5.

Tong
R1281

 

[Philip James]

@Truthcampaign.org , @Philip James

Hebrews 13:9
9Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings, for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace and not by foods of no value to those devoted to them.

Heb 13:10

We have an altar from which those who serve the tabernacle have no right to eat.

 

[Tong2020]

What I mean is I don't think there is, today, a movement or denomination that is as pure and protected from falsehood as God has made some individual believers. In my opinion, the truth is not being wholly represented by a distinct movement or group of people at this time. I think that's because we are very near Christ's return.

Why I brought up the matter of false brethren, even antiChrists, and false teachers, is for us to consider the reality of their existence and what they can do to the churches of God across the globe. Such reality is undeniable, as even the churches at the time even of the apostles were not spared of having such people in their midst. I see this as one of the reasons why scriptures were written.

Tong
R1282

 

[farouk]

Heb 13:10

We have an altar from which those who serve the tabernacle have no right to eat.

@Philip James Great verse there; Hebrews is such a remarkable Epistle, showing the superiority of the Person, work and titles of Christ.

 

[Tong2020]

Philip James said: ↑
Heb 13:10

We have an altar from which those who serve the tabernacle have no right to eat.

@Philip James Great verse there; Hebrews is such a remarkable Epistle, showing the superiority of the Person, work and titles of Christ.

The passage quoted is with reference to the altar and tabernacle of the OT of Israel, not the altar and tabernacle of the NT. I hope @Philip James did not quote that as to refer it to the NT altar and tabernacle.

Tong
R1283

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Heb 13:10

We have an altar from which those who serve the tabernacle have no right to eat.

When the wine and the bread turn into 'real' flesh and blood get back to us, okay?