-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
- Status
My 2 cents, open for discussion, but first I must explain to you what I believe so there can be no misunderstandings.
. God the Father (Elohim) in Gen-1, eternal and uncreated,
. God the Son (Yahweh) in Gen-2, eternal and uncreated, a different personality than the Father.
. God the Father is greater than God the Son.
In Gen-1 it's the Father who speaks and in Gen-2 & 3 it's Yahweh and that must mean something. It's when God the Father hands over the fallen creation and the fallen devil who caused the trouble in the hands of Yahweh (God the Son) to deliver a restored creation back to God the Father, as we can read in 1 Cor 15
1 Cor 15:24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power.
1 Cor 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
1 Cor 15:26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
1 Cor 15:27 For “God has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him.
1 Cor 15:28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.
Key verse IMO is John 8:58 - Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
Christ (Yahweh descended from heaven) referring that it was Him who revealed Himself in the burning bush to Moses.
Taken
Well-Known Member
I agree, yes, it's so wonderful and loving that our Father promised Israel and us his Son and Messiah before he created him, some 700 years.
To bring a new Covenant of grace as his Son given the task of completing it in concert with his Father. He shall be a great teacher and master to all, a might a warrior in the spiritual battle for us all, and he finally became the first and last as the new creation from the dead, to new life and existence for all ages to come for all to follow and become like him. A time of peace in the kingdom for all the chosen, amen
What a glorious time for the Father indeed!
Taken
Well-Known Member
There is no Elementary verse that SAYS those exact words for those with little understanding….
Scripture is a completion of Several Scrolls, called Books, bound together in ONE Book, called The Holy Bible.
While the Format…has Changed…from Scrolls, to Books, to One Book, Titled Chapters, Numbers Verses, Multiple Languages, Copying by Hand, to printing Presses and man made confusing Multiple Versions…
WHAT REMAINS Constant…is it is a BOOK of Gods Knowledge.
Knowledge AND Understanding OF the Knowledge ARE TWO “DIFFERENT” Things.
Scriptural Knowledge IS the True FACTS.
Understanding the MEANING of the True FACTS… IS NOT in WRITTEN Scripture.
The UNDERSTANDING / MEANING of Scriptural Knowledge…IS a GIFT From God…given Individually TO WHOM God Pleases”.
He whom seeks God, pleases God, Is revealed in Scriptural KNOWLEDGE.
He whom seeks Gods UNDERSTANDING…the How To: IS revealed in the Scriptural KNOWLEDGE.
He whom hears, verify, reads, studies, LEARNS…the Scriptural KNOWLEDGE…That WHICH ONLY APPLIES TO God …
* Is set on a Journey of Discovery of WHO God wHOLEY is:
* And WHEN such an individual Believes, Trusts, and Calls out to the Lord…CONFESSES his Discovery, his belief, his trust…
* THEN shall the Lord, VERIFY his UNDERSTANDING IS TRUE…and Continue to FEED that man MORE of Gods TRUTHS coupled WITH HIs GIFT of UNDERSTANDING.
Learn the Scriptural KNOWLEDGE…FACTS of That Which ONLY Applies TO God…
* And Remember…
God taught manKIND…little by little.
What God Kept / Keeps Secret From whomever, IS His prerogative.
What and When God Reveals to mankind, becomes ManKinds KNOWLEDGE to Freely Have, Take, Believe, Trust…or not / Reject.
Do you require a helping start to Discover Scriptural Knowledge, that which ONLY applies TO God?
God bless you.
Glory to God,
Taken
Last edited:
I already replied (in post #78) to a section you never included from your source; absent in your post here for some reason. It fell like a lead balloon as to be expected. I can reply to all these other claims the same way that can easily be dismissed as short of evidence and without real inquiry, showing no real context. I won't though, as these sections as the other one are not words, just another copy and paste job. If you want to rephrase them as your own words, then yes, I would love to ceremonially drop kick them off a building as well. no problems mate.UNITARIANS PROVE THE FATHER ISN’T THE TRUE GOD
In this post I am going to employ the interpretive method, which unitarians apply to Scripture to undermine Christ’s Deity, against them.
UNITARIAN PROOFTEXTS
Anti-Trinitarians often appeal to the following verses, to hammer the point that the Father alone is the only true God,
“And this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.” John 17:3 New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition (NRSVUE)
“since God is one, and he will justify the circumcised on the ground of faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.” Romans 3:30 NRSVUE
“For there is one God; there is also one mediator between God and humankind, Christ Jesus, himself human, who gave himself a ransom for all—this was attested at the right time.” 1 Timothy 2:5-6 NRSVUE
While explaining away the statements of these same inspired authors to Jesus’ being equally divine and therefore one in essence with the Father:
“After Jesus had spoken these words, he looked up to heaven and said, ‘Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son so that the Son may glorify you,since you have given him authority over all people, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him… I glorified you on earth by finishing the work that you gave me to do. So now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had in your presence before the world existed… Father, I desire that those also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory, which you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world.’” John 17:1-2, 4-5, 24 NRSVUE – 8:50, 54; 13:31-32; Isaiah 42:8; 48:11
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God (kai Theos een ho Logos). He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through him, and without him not one thing came into being. What has come into being in him was life, and the life was the light of all people… The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world. He was in the world, and the world came into being through him, yet the world did not know him… And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of a father’s only son, full of grace and truth… No one has ever seen God. It is the only Son, himself God (monogenes Theos), who is close to the Father’s heart, who has made him known.” John 1:1-4, 9-10, 14, 18 NRSVUE – Cf. Genesis 1:1; 2:4; Job 9:8; Psalm 36:9; Isaiah 43:6-7, 20-21; 44:24; 45:12, 18; 48:12-13
“Thomas answered him, ‘My Lord and my God (ho Kyrios mou kai ho Theos mou)!’Jesus said to him, ‘Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have come to believe.’” John 20:28-29 NRSVUE – Cf. Psalm 35:23
“For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do: by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and to deal with sin, he condemned sin in the flesh… He who did not withhold his own Son but gave him up for all of us, how will he not with him also give us everything else?” Romans 8:3, 32 NRSVUE
“to them belong the patriarchs, and from them, according to the flesh, comes the Christ, who is over all, God blessed forever (ho on epi panton Theos, eulogetos eis tous aionas). Amen.” Romans 9:5 NRSVUE
“while we wait for the blessed hope and the manifestation of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ (tou megalou Theou kai soteros hemon ‘Iesou Christou). He it is who gave himself for us that he might redeem us from all iniquity and purify for himself a people of his own who are zealous for good deeds.” Titus 2:13-14 – Cf. Exodus 19:5; Psalm 130:7-8
“Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith as equally honorable as ours through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ (tou Theou hemon kai soteros ‘Iesou Christou):” 2 Peter 1:1 – Cf. 1:11; 2:20; 3:2, 18; Isaiah 45:21-23
“Long ago God spoke to our ancestors in many and various ways by the prophets,but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom he also created the worlds.He is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact imprint of God’s very being, and he sustains all things by his powerful word. When he had made purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high… But of the Son he says, ‘Your throne, O God (ho Theos), is forever and ever, and the scepter of righteousness is the scepter of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; therefore God (ho Theos), your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.’ And, ‘In the beginning, Lord (Kyrie), YOU founded the earth, and the heavens are the work of YOUR hands; they will perish, but YOU remain; they will all wear out like clothing; like a cloak YOU will roll them up, and like clothing they will be changed. But YOU are the same, and YOUR years will never end.’” Hebrews 1:1-3, 8-12 NRSVUE – Cf. Psalm 86:8-10; 89:5-8; 102:25-27
These inspired writers not only affirm that Christ is the Son who dwelt with the Father in the same divine glory before the world began, but that he is also the uncreated Word who was fully God in essence even from before creation, being the God that is forever praised, and the great God and Savior of all believers, since he is none other than that very unchangeable Yahweh who created and gives life to all creation that became human!
And yet this is still not enough for unitarians to accept the fact that Jesus is God Almighty in the flesh according to the God-breathed Scriptures.
Therefore, I will now play the unitarians’ own game and use their interpretive method to disprove that the Father is the true God.
TURNING THE TABLES---Read on @APAK
UNITARIANS PROVE THE FATHER ISN’T THE TRUE GOD
In this post I am going to employ the interpretive method, which unitarians apply to Scripture to undermine Christ’s Deity, against them. I will show how their approach in attacking Christ’s divini…answeringislamblog.wordpress.com
J.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Many do HATE trump . I am not one of them . My desire is only GOOD for the peoples .
The man himself is and has been snared by a deadly interfaith gospel .
SO if we love him i suggest we pray HE comes out of it . I only warn about TRUMP
not because i hate him but because In ignorance he leads this people by his means of attain peace and unity
WHICH IS INTERFAITH into a finding common ground disaster which will destroy them .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Apak you can talk all day long but we both know ONLY GOD used that expression .
Go to and behold the entire bible from page one to page last
and you see if DAVID ever called himself that , or any other prophet , or any angel . ONLY GOD USED that expression
about HIMSELF . JESUS did too in revelation . So use all the explanations for why ye do as you do
JUST dont expect me to buy into what you try and bring .
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
No explanation necessary. I just want to know what verse states Jesus is YHWH. Simple.
You do not understand the subject then, or are afraid that lightning will strike if you venture into the real meaning of it. And yes, as I already said, and you now have repeated it again, they are used only for God and his Son, indeed.
What is wrong with your thinking lately. Why do you now continue to accuse me of things either I've never said or inferred. Is this the same AJ? Are you purposely trying my patience here? And for what reason? Continue on with this train of thought and I will become much more direct with you and you will not like it.
Why don't you query me first AJ, and not accuse me of wild outlandish ideas? This comment of yours really does not deserve an answer.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
You cannot show me one prophet , one man , one angel who ever used that phrase .
WE KNOW GOD DID . and we SEEN JESUS say this .
But you just keep on keeping on with this i dont understand what it means or etc .
WELL I DO UNDERSTAND ONLY GOD SAID IT . AND JESUS said it from heaven to the churches .
The burden is on you my friend . A phrase ONLY GOD USED to describe HIMSELF .
Unless you want to beleive you yourself are the alpha and omega . MY ADVICE , SEE and THINK NO SUCH THING .
GOD IS the alpha and omega the first and the last.
AND HE USED that phrase to ABOUT HIMSELF .
It isn't an accusation, but a question. I'm trying to understand what you're saying in your posts. It is an honest question, not an accusation. Maybe there is a barrier in how you communicate and how I communicate, being we are from different cultures and countries. But I simply asked questions. That's all.
And I gave you an answer -
Key verse IMO is John 8:58 - Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
Christ (Yahweh descended from heaven) referring that it was Him who revealed Himself in the burning bush to Moses.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
It's just untrue. I am is a very common expression that everyone uses to this day. On top of that, Jesus did not say in Greek what God said in Hebrew, which more accurately translates ETERNAL, not I am but “I Will Be Who I Will Be.”
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
This verse does not say Jesus is YHWH. You are relying on your on understanding and reading your doctrine into unitarian text. You are so dishonest, you cannot simply admit that no verse actually teaches that Jesus is YHWH. Sad.
Cool AJ. It may be a question, although where did that come from to even ask me this question, if you get my drift. As I said, I really do not know why you would ask me this question.
And of course no to your question!
He was capable of sin, as he was tempted in this regard, as the first Adam, and as Adam, he was also not born/created with the propensity to sin. Unfortunately after many, many years I reckon, Adam succumbed to sin. Adam lives most probably a few hundred years before he sinned? Christ lived maybe 33 years with the same perfect human nature, with the aid of his Father's spirit within him and the many angels surrounding and leading him. Adam never had this aid at all. Well this is a starter, if I have to explain myself very breifly on this subject.
Jesus Christ was not tempted in the sense of having sinful inward inclinations- rather, all His temptations originated externally, not internally, as the term peirazō demonstrates.
J.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
