James Was Not Talking about Faith in Jesus Christ for Salvation
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I'm reminded of the poem about Solomon Grundy:
'Solomon Grundy,
Born on a Monday,
Christened on Tuesday,
Married on Wednesday,
Took ill on Thursday,
Grew worse on Friday,
Died on Saturday,
Buried on Sunday,
That was the end,
Of Solomon Grundy.'
Likewise the 'saved today, lost tomorrow' theology.....
Saved on Monday,
Lost on a Tuesday,
Saved again on a Wednesday,...... (etc.)
In contrast, Paul said to the Philippians:
'Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ' (Philippians 1.6).
'Solomon Grundy,
Born on a Monday,
Christened on Tuesday,
Married on Wednesday,
Took ill on Thursday,
Grew worse on Friday,
Died on Saturday,
Buried on Sunday,
That was the end,
Of Solomon Grundy.'
Likewise the 'saved today, lost tomorrow' theology.....
Saved on Monday,
Lost on a Tuesday,
Saved again on a Wednesday,...... (etc.)
In contrast, Paul said to the Philippians:
'Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ' (Philippians 1.6).
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
It's not me. It's the Bible. Read Romans 8:13.
“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).
Living after the flesh is in reference to sin here.
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. ” (Galatians 5:19-21).
As for tattoos:
I believe they are of your old life, and one seeks forgiveness over them, then one is forgiven. But if one persists in this sin, they are defiling the temple of God and He will destroy them. Destroy here is destroy in the Lake of Fire seeing everyone dies (Both believers and unbelievers - except the Raptured saints alive on this Earth at the time of His calling of course).
1 Corinthians 3:17
“If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.”
And where is the Holy Spirit in all this? You talk as if people aren't really different in rebirth.
Much love!
Romans 8 shows that the characteristic of the true believer is to walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.
(I'll refer to the tattoo on the other thread...)
This passage is not about hurting your personal flesh body.
1 Corinthians 3:16-18 KJV
16) Know ye not that ye (plural) are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you (plural)?
17) If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye (plural) are.
18) Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
The temple is the assembly, the church. Paul has been speaking about those who bring division into the church. Not about smoking cigarettes, or tattooing one's self.
1 Corinthians 3:3-4 KJV
3) For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
4) For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
1 Corinthians 3:17-23 KJV
17) If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
18) Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
19) For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
20) And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
21) Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
22) Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
23) And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.
Much love!
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
You can mock all you like, but this is a belief in the Bible (of which you are mocking).
What am I talking about? Well, babies have the free gift of salvation (from Jesus Christ) automatically because if a baby dies, they are saved by Christ’s sacrifice. For the baby has not done any wrong to merit condemnation. But when the baby grows up and falls into sin, they then need to regain the sacrifice of Christ by coming to the Lord of their own free will choice. It’s like the parable of the Prodigal Son: When he came home and sought forgiveness with his father over his prodigal sinful life, his father said he was “dead” and he is “alive AGAIN.” The prodigal son did not physically die, so the parable is obviously speaking in spiritual terms. The prodigal son was dead spiritually when he was living it up with prostitutes, but when he came back home to the father and sought forgiveness with him, he became alive AGAIN spiritually. To ignore this obvious fact of the parable (that is plain) is to simply bury one’s head in the sand to such a truth (because one does not want to see it).
Read Luke 15:11-32. It actually says ALIVE AGAIN.
You also are ignoring what 1 John 1:7 says, as well. It says IF we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.
So we have to walk in the light (after we are saved by God’s grace) in order for the blood of Jesus to continually cleanse us from all sin. Walking in the light is conditional and not a guarantee because John uses the word IF. Being cleansed from all sin is a salvation issue. Walking in the light is loving your brother according to the indirect wording used in 1 John 2:9-11. So you have to love the brethren (which involves good deeds) so that the blood of Jesus cleanses us (Saves us). So you have to look at the whole counsel of God’s Word and not focus a laser beam on those verses you prefer to see from your own particular belief, friend.
It's good indeed to understand what Paul says here morally and spiritually, not with arbitrary legalistic rules.
The great preacher Spurgeon smoked (in the days before pain killers, he apparently felt it helped his gout). One does not have to "agree" with this to be able to acknowledge that he was a great servant of God, much used of the Lord, and not consigned to the pit because of his gout remedy.
Historically, before the American civil war, in some areas it was widespread for women to smoke after church. I'm sure some of them may have been Godly, whatever one thinks of their pastime.
Sir, I was referring to the idea which you seemed to promote of being saved one day, lost the next, etc. I don't see it in Scripture.
I don't want to belittle you at all; rather, I would warmly encourage you to enjoy passages such as Romans 8 and John's First Epistle which contain much assurance and security for the true believer because of the work of Christ at the Cross (not because of our efforts).
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At the new birth, a good work has been begun in the believing sinner, good for time and eternity (Philippians 1.6).
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
Jesus says that various sins defile a man.
Matthew 15:18-20
“But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man:..”
Now, let's look at the parable by Paul in 1 Corinthians 3 (Which ties into 1 Corinthians 3:17).
Paul says before his parable, "you are God's building."
So we are the materials that make up the building.
The work is not referring to just any kind of general actions of a believer like good fruit (any kind of good fruit) and evil fruit (sin). The work is referring to those believers we bring to the faith and their eternal status with God (i.e. what kind of building materials are they made up of). The Parable is talking about Paul's work (Which is the Corinthians in this instance).
I believe Paul and the other apostles are a part of the foundation with Christ being the chief cornerstone or the ultimate baseline foundation (Ephesians 2:20), and that Paul's work in the gospel are the result of the Corinthians being initially saved by the gospel. However, Paul is now concerned that his labor in the gospel (concerning them) is now in vain because the Corinthians are now working the sins of strife and envying - 1 Corinthians 3:3 (Note: Paul condemns the sins of strife and envying when writing to the Galatians (Galatians 5:19-21). Paul says that they which do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God). In Galatians 4:11, Paul was concerned for the Galatians in that they were going back to the Old Law so as to be justified or saved. He was concerned that his labor for the gospel was in vain for the Galatians.
So the parable speaks of how his labor for the gospel (concerning the Corinthians) was now possibly in vain for them, too.
#1. The chief cornerstone foundation = Jesus Christ.
#2. Built as a part of the foundation on top of Christ = The apostles (including Paul, etc.) (Ephesians 2:20).
#3. The actual building materials of the tower or building = God's people (In this instance it would be the Corinthians).
#4. The Corinthians would be like: Wood, hay, and stubble in this particular point in time within their life while they abided in their sins of strife, and envying (Which are sins that will cause a person to not inherit the Kingdom of God).
Wood, hay, and stubble are not materials that could survive a fire.
#5. Paul (the soul winner, and builder of the gospel and builder upon the foundation of Jesus Christ) would be saved through the fire (despite his work - i.e. the Corinthians being his work) would be burned up because of their sins. For Paul then says that if any man defiles the temple, God will destroy them (Meaning: God will destroy the Corinthians if they do not repent of their sins). We are the temple of God. Our bodies are the temples of God. If we as believers defile our temples by sin, God will destroy us (i.e. condemn us).
#2. Built as a part of the foundation on top of Christ = The apostles (including Paul, etc.) (Ephesians 2:20).
#3. The actual building materials of the tower or building = God's people (In this instance it would be the Corinthians).
#4. The Corinthians would be like: Wood, hay, and stubble in this particular point in time within their life while they abided in their sins of strife, and envying (Which are sins that will cause a person to not inherit the Kingdom of God).
Wood, hay, and stubble are not materials that could survive a fire.
#5. Paul (the soul winner, and builder of the gospel and builder upon the foundation of Jesus Christ) would be saved through the fire (despite his work - i.e. the Corinthians being his work) would be burned up because of their sins. For Paul then says that if any man defiles the temple, God will destroy them (Meaning: God will destroy the Corinthians if they do not repent of their sins). We are the temple of God. Our bodies are the temples of God. If we as believers defile our temples by sin, God will destroy us (i.e. condemn us).
This is what I believe the parable is saying. The works of Paul that will be burned are the Corinthians if they do not repent of their sins of strife and envy (1 Corinthians 3:3). The Corinthians at this point in time are not saved and they will be burned up in the fire and destroyed by God if they don't seek forgiveness with the Lord and turn from their sins of strife and envy. Paul, the apostles, or the gospel preacher is the one who will be saved through fire if his work (the Corinthians) is burned up (on the account of their justifying sin). The parable is not talking about how a believer can sin and still be saved as long as they have a belief on Jesus. It's actually teaching the exact opposite of that. One cannot build sin as a work upon the foundation of Jesus Christ. Jesus did not advocate sin, and neither did He teach that a person can continue to sin and still be saved.
Yes, we are initially and foundationally saved by God's grace, but believers cannot justify sin, and they have to be fruitful for their Lord and live holy as a part of the Sanctification Process.
For Hebrews 12:14-15 says,
“14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness,
without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;”
(Hebrews 12:14-15).
This ties in with 1 Corinthians 3:17. For if any man defiles the temple with sin, God will destroy them in the Lake of Fire. Tattoos is forbidden in Leviticus 19:28. While we are not under the Old Covenant, there are verses in the New Testament that suggest that this is sin that leads to spiritual death if a person persists in doing such a sin. Not only does sin defile, but cutting into your flesh with ink (whereby you crack the skin and blood comes out) defiles the temple of the Holy Spirit. The worshipers of Baal cut into their skin to show their dedication to their gods.
The New Testament says:
Colossians 2:8 says,
"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."
Tattoos is clearly pagan and of this world.
The real motivation is love. You do good for others because you love them, not because you are under threat if you don't.
Conditional salvation is no salvation at all.
The drowning man is thrown a life ring, but never pulled into the boat? You are saved as long as you can hold on?
Much love!
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
One can say the same about Universal Salvation. You believe salvation is conditional when first coming to the Lord? Or do you believe in Calvinism?
and verse 13 says, 'For it is God that worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure'. It's His work, not our fleshly efforts, that prevail in faith.
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
Again, you have to work out your salvation with fear and trembling to be qualified for Philippians 1:6. Also, we have to fight the good fight and lay hold on eternal life (1 Timothy 6:12).
I'm not talking universalism, and I'm not talking about Calvinism.
Romans 6:5 KJV
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
If you've shared in the likeness of His death, you SHALL also share in the likeness of His resurrection.
By "conditional salvation", I'm using that term in what I've understood you to be meaning, that is, that after being "saved", conditions exist that if not met will undo your rebirth. I don't think that.
Regarding when we are reborn, we are saved when we believe, so there is the condition of believing. When we have been born again, that is forever.
Much love!
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
A person can say that about sexual immorality. But we know that is condemned. Tattoos are also condemned in the Old Covenant and it was a show of the worship of their pagan gods. Not sure of how God would just suddenly approve of that just because we are under the New Covenant. Tattoos still are rooted in the worship of false gods. That's why God did not want the Israelites to be tattooed. Plus, you bleed when you get tattooed. Shedding of blood is a form of covenant making. Just like in marriage, and circumcision under the OT, etcetera. The New Covenant began with the shedding of Christ's blood. So folks are making covenants when they get tattooed. Just as a virgin is made a covenant with a man who took her virginity. Blood was shed.
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