James Was Not Talking about Faith in Jesus Christ for Salvation

[Bible Highlighter]

The morbid practice of cutting oneself and blood-letting has a long and dark history in the demonic pages of satanism, demonism and the occult. Under the definition of "Satanism", the highly-acclaimed, Encyclopedia of American Religions, lists among the activities performed by Satanists is "blood letting":

"In this branch of Satanism,. . . one can expect to find those individuals engaged in grave robbery, sexual assaults and the ritual blood letting. . ."
(Melton, Gordon, Encyclopedia of American Religions, 3rd Edition, Gale Research Ltd., 1989, p. 145)

An article in The Independent newspaper, acknowledges the pathway from blood-letting to satanism found on web sites aimed toward children.

"The Association of Teachers and Lecturers said the popularity of children's programmes and books featuring witchcraft could encourage children to search for sinister material on the internet. Researchers for the union found websites promoting satanism, blood-letting and wicca (witch). . . One website found by the union describes in detail how to carry out blood-letting and blood drinking. . ."
(Buffy 'prompting pupils to access the occult", Ben Russell, Education Correspondent, The Independent, April 22, 2000, www.cesnur.org/testi/buffy_001.htm)

In 1996, the satanic, Kentucky vampire cult led by the self-acclaimed 500-year-old vampire and satanist, teenager Rod Ferrell brutally murdered two people. Ferrell began his dark journey of blood, satanism, vampirism and murder by walking around cemeteries at night, cutting himself and practicing blood-letting.
("Vampire Cult Slaying Case," Court TV [Online]. www.courttv.com/verdicts/vampire.html)

TATTOO: A TRAIL OF BLOOD-LETTING

There’s no question that tattoos originated from the satanic ritual of blood-letting and cutting of the flesh as described in 1 Kings 18.

In fact, in Leviticus chapter 19 verse 28, where the Lord clearly condemns the tattoo, "Ye shall not make any . . . print any marks upon you." Notice what else is included in the same verse. . . Obviously, by the context, the Lord connects the forbidden "marks" or tattoo, – "Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh. . ." (more on Leviticus 19:28 later)

"Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD."
(Leviticus 19:28)

TATTOO: AND THE BLOOD FLOWS

Perhaps it would be a good time to give a few brief descriptions of the tattoo procedure. May I remind you again, these are all from pro-tattoo resources.

"Early people cut open their skin and rubbed soot into the wounds to mark themselves. They punctured their skin with the bones and teeth of animals."
(Jean-Chris Miller, The Body Art Book : A Complete, Illustrated Guide to Tattoos, Piercings, and Other Body Modifications, p. 28)

"You’ll see little drops of blood emerge from the freshly tattooed spot. . . How much you bleed has a lot to do with your personal physiology as well as outside factors (like the presence of alcohol in your bloodstream, which can make you bleed like a stuck pig). Usually your blood will coagulate within a few minutes, clotting up the tiny punctures that have been made. . .

When your tattoo is finished, the artist will clean it gently with an alcohol/water solution. Once that dries and little blood bubbles have ceased rising to the surface, the artist may want to snap a few photos of your piece."
(Jean-Chris Miller, The Body Art Book : A Complete, Illustrated Guide to Tattoos, Piercings, and Other Body Modifications, pp. 97,98,99)

"The tattooist guides the tattoo machine over the skin. He or she stops the needle every minute or so to wipe the blood and ink clean. The amounts of bleeding and pain in the tattoo process differ according to each person. . . After the first two hours, remove the bandage and wash away any collected or dried blood."
(Bonnie B. Graves, Tattooing and body piercing, p. 22, 24)

"As soon as he stops working with the needle, the sailor’s skin send up its blood beads. . . the eagle’s eye reddens but there is now no telling blood from ink. . . Carmey floods the flesh behind the eagle with red and the finished eagle poises on a red sky, born and baptized in the blood of it’s owner."
(Ronald Scutt, Art, Sex and Symbol, 1974, p. 19)

"The reasons why puncturing the skin should be regarded with some degree of awe are not far to seek, for in the first place, there is the drawing of blood, which to the savage world over is full of significance as a rejuvenating and immortalizing factor. There is in addition the opening of numerous inlets for evil to enter."
([Hambly Wilfrid D. 1925. The History of Tattooing and its Significance, p. 233] (Gilbert, Steve, Tattoo History: A Source Book, p. 162)

Rolling Stone magazine gives a first-hand description of the blood-letting tattoo procedure:
"Evan Seinfeld, the bassist for Biohazrd, sits in the chair, offers his hand and waits for the bleeding to began. . . The instrument whirs to life, humming across Seinfeld's hand, creating a vibrating pool of blood and ink."
(Rolling Stone, March 28, 2002, p. 40)

Beware – the tattoo procedure is a fashion of the satanic practice of blood-letting or cutting of ones flesh. Rubbing a little ink or pigment in it doesn’t change the fact – you are cutting your flesh – you are practicing blood-letting.

Don’t take my word for it. Here’s what the pro-tattoo, historians write:

By far, the most extensive work ever published on tattoos was Dr. W.D. Hambly’s, The History of Tattooing And It's Significance. Author Steve Gilbert, in his popular Tattoo History: A Source Book, writes, "Hambly concluded that historically tattooing had originated in connection with ancient rites of scarification and bloodletting. . ."

"Hambly concluded that historically tattooing had originated in connection with ancient rites of scarification and bloodletting which were associated with religious practices intended to put the human soul in harmony with supernatural forces and ensure continuity between this life and the next."
(Gilbert, Steve, Tattoo History: A Source Book, p. 158)

Did you also notice in the above quote, that Hambly also concluded that tattoos were "associated with religious practices"? Hmmm. . . Now I wonder what kind of "religious practices" would practice "blood-letting"? Hint. . . If you forgot, go back and read 1 Kings 18.

There’s no doubt that the cutting and marking of one’s skin [tattooing] is connected to and associated with the satanic and demonic practice of blood-letting.

Author Gilbert again links the tattoo to blood-letting, and magic. And even gives an enlightening and frightening description of a modern day blood-letting, blood-licking, satanic, tattoo procedure. Notice, the connection to the demonic "spiritual manifestations".

"In northwest Alaska, traditional practices of tattoo and ritually induced bleeding were often related and may have even overlapped to some extent. Around Bering Strait, shamans commonly performed bloodletting to relieve aching or inflamed parts of the body. Nelson watched a shaman ‘lancing the scalp of his little girl’s head, the long, thin iron point of the instrument being thrust twelve to fifteen times between the scalp and skull [which is the identical technique for tattooing] . . It is plausible that the release of blood functioned to appease various ills and spiritual manifestations. For instance, several St. Lawrence Islanders explained to me the importance of licking the blood that was released during tattoo ‘operations’."
(Gilbert, Steve, Tattoo History: A Source Book, p. 181)

May I again remind you – all this information and documentation are from books promoting and glorifying the tattoo! These are not Christian authors writing with any anti-tattoo slant. But this is hard, documented facts from tattoo artists, tattoo historians and people who endorse tattoos.

You can try to justify and close your eyes to the documented FACTS – but the FACT is – the tattoo is clearly connected to satanic blood-letting.

And they cried aloud, and cut themselves after their manner with knives and lancets, till the blood gushed out upon them.

1 Kings 18:28

And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.

Mark 5:6

Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

2 Corinthians 2:11

Source:
https://www.thetruefam.com/blog/tattoos-the-bloody-truth/
(Note: I agree with the article, but that does not mean I may agree with everything the author teaches or say).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This does not say that the born again die again, but it does say what it means.

And who is this speaking of?

Jude 1:4 KJV
4) For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

These are not children of God.

Much love!

Again, they are TWICE dead. They can only be twice dead because...

#1. They were dead spiritually the 1st time before coming to Jesus.
#2. They died spiritually a 2nd time by later turning God's grace into a license for immorality. In short, they ended up later believing they can sin and still be saved.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So am I diabetic.
So are lots of Christians.
Lots of girls since around the 1970s have gotten double pierced ears, including lots of Christian girls.
Salvation just isn't some kind of crude oil commodity in a tanker that changes ownership repeatedly, when Christian girls go to a mall jewelry kiosk, etc., etc.
I do love Philippians 1.6. Someone on these forums even has it as his or her header verse.

I am talking about tattoos and blood letting. In the Bible this was done as a part of the power of darkness or pagan gods (Satanism). See post #380. For me, I would not want to do anything that paralleled or mimicked Satanism or the pagan practices of old that God had forbidden (i.e. Satanism).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

One of the best places in Scripture!

Ephesians 2:4 KJV
But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

Much love!

This is talking about Initial Salvation. For how many times have you been quickened? (Ephesians 2:1). Just once, right? How many times do you receive a gift? For by grace you have been saved through faith it is the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8). Gifts are normally received one time. So this is referring to Initial Salvation and not the next step in the Salvation Process. To see the next step read 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 (Which is a call of the gospel - Not that it is the gospel, it is merely the call of the gospel; The gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I suppose logically you would also say that a Christian girl with double pierced ears whose lobes bled a bit would also supposedly lose her salvation.....

Frankly, some of the statements made go way beyond Scripture.

Genesis 24:22 and Ezekiel 16:12 seems to favor ear piercings, and it does not condemn them.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

God already DID reject everyone based on their sin. All have fallen short of His glory, so all are already rejected. Now God is doing something different, saving us. Not for nothing!

Much love!

But in order for the blood of Christ to cleanse us, we have to not only believe in His blood (Romans 3:25), but we must walk in the light as He is in the light so that the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin (See: 1 John 1:7). So it's not a walk in the park. Work out your salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12). Fight the good fight of faith and lay hold on eternal life (1 Timothy 6:12).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I just don't see the new birth in John 3 as referring to something merely temporary, subjective and a supposed glorious failure. Rather, as Philippians 1.6 shows, it's a work which God begins and God sustains.

The new birth is in line with being transformed to live righteously, though.

God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (See: Titus 2:11-12).

“...let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.” (2 Corinthians 7:1).

“If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me:” (Psalms 66:18).

“Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.” (John 9:31).

“I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.” (Luke 5:32).

“If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, ” (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

Without these things, the new birth means nothing or there was never any new birth to begin with (if one never even thought correctly in how they must put away sin or die). For if one always thought sin was no more dangerous than say a fluffy kitten to their soul, they never truly had the right mind set with the Lord and or with the Scriptures (Because they think they have a safety net to sin - i.e. they can turn God's grace into a license for immorality).

“Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.” (1 Peter 1:22-23).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Can you in fact . . . know?

Much love!

But do you believe a Christian can abide in sin and still be saved?
Meaning, do you believe they can lose salvation by sin?
If not, then it's not Once Saved Always Saved.
But if they don't lose salvation if they sin, then they can sin and still be saved and if that is the case, then they are not going to purify themselves as you say. There is no need to do so because they are Once Saved Always Saved.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

A girl taking to her friends about her faith in the Gospel from John 3.16 - with or without a John 3.16 tattoo on her wrist - is not going to be consigned to the pit because of the ink. I really don't see the Bible saying that sort of thing at all.

The Bible does not condemn the use of an Ouija board, but that does not mean God doesn't condemn such a thing. Sometimes God's Word condemns things in more broad terms and it's not always in the form of a Thou shalt not. I believe there are plenty of verses that condemns tattoos. But if one is knee deep in tattoos and or they have buddies who are into tattoos and or they are a liberal Christian (whereby the Bible is just a book of myths and legends), then they are going to not see problems with tattoos of course. It's because they don't want to see a problem with them. They are comfortable in the popular world of Christianity (that says you can sin and still be saved). However, the Bible talks about those who are lovers more than they are lovers of God. Being a lover of God is about self sacrifice for other people. It's about denying yourself and following Jesus. It's about loving those who are not loved. Loving your enemies. It's about following God's word even when it may not make sense in the moment to you.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

A girl taking to her friends about her faith in the Gospel from John 3.16 - with or without a John 3.16 tattoo on her wrist - is not going to be consigned to the pit because of the ink. I really don't see the Bible saying that sort of thing at all.

Well, I don't believe God is happy with a person who wraps the gospel up in a blanket of sin. Can a car thief promote the gospel with his theft? I am sure he could but God would not be in favor of him doing so because he is justifying sin and wrapping up his good gospel with that which is sinful. Tattooing is sinful in the Old Covenant, and it's one of those things I don't believe has changed because pagan tattoo people did not just poof and disappear when the New Covenant began.

Side Note:

Granted, Paul would say that he is rejoices that the gospel is preached regardless of a person's false intentions. Prosperity preachers can probably even lead people to Christ. But that does not undo the fact that they are wrong for being a Prosperity Preacher. It does not make them right with God. But can God still use them? Sure, but that again does not condone the sin.

 

[Titus]

At this point, if you don't see what I have shown with Scripture, you are never going to see it. There is no point to keep endlessly going back and forth on this point (if you refuse to see the verse points I made).

May God bless you and let's agree to disagree.

Agreed, until you see the many contradictions in your interpretation of scripture. It is of no avail.

1Corinthians 12:13 is water immersion.
Go get ahold of multiple Greek scholars and ask hem what the word baptizo means in 1Corinthians 12:13.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Agreed, until you see the many contradictions in your interpretation of scripture. It is of no avail.

I see no contradiction in what I believe anymore than how folks don't see a contradiction in the Trinity (While others do). The contradiction only exists therefore in your own mind and the failure is your own in not seeing it, my friend. Ask God and search the Scriptures on the matter and He will reveal it to you.

1 Corinthians 12:13 is water immersion.
Go get ahold of multiple Greek scholars and ask hem what the word baptizo means in 1 Corinthians 12:13.

I don't believe this is the case, friend. See this your presuppositions of seeing water everytime you see the word baptism mentioned. For you, it cannot mean anything else. But homonyms do exist in the Bible. Meaning: Words in the Bible can have a wide variety of meaning although they can look and sound the same, and the context determines what that word says. I mean, I get it. At one point in time, all I could see was water water water with words like baptize even when I read verses like Acts 19:1-5. But the more I read the context and other verses showing the greater reality (Which is being baptized in the Spirit) things became clear. Not sure you are honest with the text to be able to do that, though. Right now you seemed biased to water baptism that you cannot see the forest from the trees. Sorry. That's just how I see it for you, my friend. But if we are going to look at truth, we need to carefully be open to what others have to say and examine the Scriptures in that they may be right (Even though we may think we are right). Most just simply do not want to be corrected or maybe some are not willing to change because of their church's beliefs. I don't know the reason that is holding you back from not looking openly at the other side with an open mind. But I am sure you have your reasons.

Until then... may God bless you and your family (even if we disagree).

 

[marks]

This suggests that you are trying to escape the idea

This suggests no such thing. You incorrect infer this.

because you prefer to see

All you are doing here is presenting an argument that I am being intellectually dishonest about this, which is no argument at all.

And frankly, I'm not that interested in having a conversation about your erroneous opinions of me.

Means you are teaching believers can live ungodly and turn God's grace into lasciviousness.

This means you are fine with putting words into my mouth to impugn me with. This is righteousness?

Much love!

 

[marks]

I don't know the reason that is holding you back from not looking openly at the other side with an open mind.

Frankly, I have to ask myself, why have you left off from having a Scriptural discuss and instead go with all these ad hominems? If you don't want to continue, just don't. But if you feel like you simply MUST display all your poor opinions of me, maybe ask yourself, Why?

Much love!

 

[marks]

So this means a believer can to a degree sin and still be saved thereby making them ungodly and whereby they would be turning the grace of God into lasciviousness.

Are you saying that the works of the flesh if done undo the recreative work of God in our rebirth? So that should the Christian commit a sin, then they are returned to the state of corruption as before being reborn?

Does this mean that I should rightly understand that you do not perform any of those works of the flesh?

I only ask as I test the implications of your statements.

Much love!

 

[marks]

You also appeared to suggest that Paul is referring to unbelievers and not believers in verses like Galatians 5:19-21, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, etcetera.

As far as each passage is concerned, I simply suggest that we take in the entire context, and also look at parallel passages. If you think I'm doing this incorrectly, show where. What words am I getting wrong? Appear to suggest? Why not quote what I wrote and show the error if you think it so?

Much love!

 

[marks]

The morbid practice of cutting oneself and blood-letting has a long and dark history in the demonic pages of satanism, demonism and the occult. Under the definition of "Satanism", the highly-acclaimed, Encyclopedia of American Religions, lists among the activities performed by Satanists is "blood letting":

So we were talking about tattoos, not this other stuff, and what someone did thousands of years ago for one reason does not at all mean that someone doing the same things now has that same reason. And there is a vast amount of other practices you're going to need to repudiate on the same basis as that. If this is how you look at things.

Even cutting, I know a fellow who was doing that, and it was not at all a worshipful practice, not of anything or anyone. I know what it was, I understand about those things.

Will you judge one man's heart according to someone else, or will you simply abstain from judging other's hearts at all?

But in order for the blood of Christ to cleanse us, we have to not only believe in His blood (Romans 3:25), but we must walk in the light as He is in the light so that the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin (See: 1 John 1:7). So it's not a walk in the park. Work out your salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12). Fight the good fight of faith and lay hold on eternal life (1 Timothy 6:12).

How many times must you be reconciled to God? Working out salvation is one thing, but one thing it's not is that salvation itself.

On-again-off-again salvation is so contrary to the plain statements of the Bible, and is not actually salvation at all.

The way you describe it, God drops down a ladder, and says, I hope you can make it to the top. You've grabbed the ladder, so then who can climb their way into God's good graces?

Much love!

 

[marks]

But do you believe a Christian can abide in sin and still be saved?

What do you mean, "abide in sin"? Do you have a passage of Scripture in mind? I can't seem to place that phrase being used anywhere.

Do you believe a Christian is able to commit sin? And do you believe that if a Christian commits a single sin that they are immediately no longer born again?

Meaning, do you believe they can lose salvation by sin?

Here's what the Bible says.

Hebrews 7:23-25 KJV
23) And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
24) But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
25) Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Romans 8:31-34 KJV
31) What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32) He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33) Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34) Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

So you tell me . . . who is he that condemns? Because Jesus, Who has been declared the judge of Humanity, is our intercessor.

Much love!

 

[marks]

But if they don't lose salvation if they sin, then they can sin and still be saved and if that is the case, then they are not going to purify themselves as you say. There is no need to do so because they are Once Saved Always Saved.

The truth is exactly opposite that.

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Knowing that you will be like Him when you see Him, knowing this truth, this is the hope John speaks of. And those who have This Hope - not some other hope, this hope - purify themselves.

This is one of those oh so very plainly stated passages.

We KNOW that when He appears we will be like Him, and this faith-based expectation in us brings about our purification.

Jude 1:21 KJV
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

Much love!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This suggests no such thing. You incorrect infer this.



All you are doing here is presenting an argument that I am being intellectually dishonest about this, which is no argument at all.

And frankly, I'm not that interested in having a conversation about your erroneous opinions of me.



This means you are fine with putting words into my mouth to impugn me with. This is righteousness?

Much love!

Do you believe a believer loses salvation when they sin or they are in danger of losing salvation when they sin? If you believe they are saved while they sin for a short amount of time and you tell this to a child and never see them again, they could potentially turn out to be the next George Sodini who murdered a bunch of people and killed himself all while thinking Jesus had forgiven him of these sins. Or do you think George was saved? His church leaders thought he was saved. This is absolutely monstrous.