It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

[Spiritual Israelite]

I seem to be having some trouble understanding how Jesus warnings relate to believing in a pre trib rapture. I'm going on the understanding of Matthew 24:42-44

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.../KJV

If you read more in that chapter He is clearly talking about the rapture. And no one except the father knows the date or hour. So no prophecies need to be fulfilled before the rapture occurs. And scripture maps out the exact day of the 2nd coming. So it cant be both rapture and 2nd coming happen at the same time, other wise we would know the date and hour of the rapture.

So it has to be two events. Unless you can explain what I am missing?

Jesus is talking about His second coming in that passage you quoted. The coming of the Son of man. When did Jesus Himself say that would happen?

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

This coming of the Son of man is the same coming of the Son of man He talked about a little after this in verses 42 to 44 and He said it would happen AFTER the tribulation of those days. Very simple.

To not know the day or hour of His coming does not equate to nothing having to happen before that. Jesus talked about things to watch for which would indicate that it's near like an increase in wickedness and many false prophets and such. Knowing His coming is near does not equate to knowing the day or hour of His coming, so you can see things happening indicating that His coming and the rapture is near without knowing the day or hour.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes. LOL. I believe antichrist is a spirit that will operate through an evil global system and could manifest through a global leader or leaders.

Yeah, that's what I thought. I've never seen you express a belief in an individual Antichrist or anything like that before.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jesus has been saying for 2000 years, soon...and to watch and be ready. So where is the harm (or deception) in watching for Jesus now instead of after the great trib?

Is Jesus going to punish me for looking for Him sooner than you post trib guys? (Scripture?)

Why can't you understand that when He said to watch He wasn't just saying to look up in the sky and watch for Him, but to watch for signs of His soon return and watch that you're not deceived?

 

[WPM]

I seem to be having some trouble understanding how Jesus warnings relate to believing in a pre trib rapture. I'm going on the understanding of Matthew 24:42-44

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.../KJV

If you read more in that chapter He is clearly talking about the rapture. And no one except the father knows the date or hour. So no prophecies need to be fulfilled before the rapture occurs. And scripture maps out the exact day of the 2nd coming. So it cant be both rapture and 2nd coming happen at the same time, other wise we would know the date and hour of the rapture.

So it has to be two events. Unless you can explain what I am missing?

You present a false premise (without supporting it) and then precede to build upon that dubious foundation. That sums up Pretrib.

How about listing all your Pretrib "rapture" passages and then we could see why you believe what you do.

Do you accept the rapture as a "coming" (parousia) of Christ?

 

[MA2444]

Jesus is talking about His second coming in that passage you quoted. The coming of the Son of man. When did Jesus Himself say that would happen?

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

This coming of the Son of man is the same coming of the Son of man He talked about a little after this in verses 42 to 44 and He said it would happen AFTER the tribulation of those days. Very simple.

To not know the day or hour of His coming does not equate to nothing having to happen before that. Jesus talked about things to watch for which would indicate that it's near like an increase in wickedness and many false prophets and such. Knowing His coming is near does not equate to knowing the day or hour of His coming, so you can see things happening indicating that His coming and the rapture is near without knowing the day or hour.

I didnt ask you. And I am not concerned with what you believe.

 

[MA2444]

Why can't you understand that when He said to watch He wasn't just saying to look up in the sky and watch for Him, but to watch for signs of His soon return and watch that you're not deceived?

But you have never shown what is the danger to me for watching for the Lord sooner than post trib people think. What's Jesus going to do to me for that? Send me to hell? Punish me?

Show your work...

 

[WPM]

But you have never shown what is the danger to me for watching for the Lord sooner than post trib people think. What's Jesus going to do to me for that? Send me to hell? Punish me?

Show your work...

It is false teaching. That is enough. It gives people a false hope. You invent a second chance, when Scripture doesn't.

 

[MA2444]

You present a false premise (without supporting it) and then precede to build upon that dubious foundation. That sums up Pretrib.

How about listing all your Pretrib "rapture" passages and then we could see why you believe what you do.

Do you accept the rapture as a "coming" (parousia) of Christ?

So you dont believe what the Bible says. I get that so have no need to talk to you or post questions to you. You read the scripture I posted. What's dubious? You cant declare something to be dubious and wrong without explaining yourself. But you did. So who cares what you believe?

 

[MA2444]

It is false teaching. That is enough. It gives people a false hope. You invent a second chance, when Scripture doesn't.

Do you ever talk straight? I havent seen it yet.

 

[WPM]

So you dont believe what the Bible says. I get that so have no need to talk to you or post questions to you. You read the scripture I posted. What's dubious? You cant declare something to be dubious and wrong without explaining yourself. But you did. So who cares what you believe?

You fudge every question because you have to. For you to actually address simple questions would demolish your error. Your avoidance reinforces Posttrib truth.

 

[WPM]

Do you ever talk straight? I havent seen it yet.

Do you accept the rapture as a "coming" (parousia) of Christ?

 

[MA2444]

Jesus is talking about His second coming in that passage you quoted. The coming of the Son of man. When did Jesus Himself say that would happen?

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days

Matthew 24:
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh..../KJV

Better read it again. That's talking about the rapture.

Matthew 24:32
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:.../KJV

At this point Jesus has answered all 3 of the Apostles questions, and He continues to talk but adds some other stuff in. As in...NOW, learn a parable of the fig tree, and He goes into talking about the rapture.

You dont use a Concordance much do you?

 

[WPM]

Matthew 24:
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh..../KJV

Better read it again. That's talking about the rapture.

Matthew 24:32
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:.../KJV

At this point Jesus has answered all 3 of the Apostles questions, and He continues to talk but adds some other stuff in. As in...NOW, learn a parable of the fig tree, and He goes into talking about the rapture.

You dont use a Concordance much do you?

We note three particular characteristics of this day, which will be repeated at the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. (1) The wicked lived as if there was no judgement coming, verse 38 says, “they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage.” (2) The wicked were caught unexpected, verse 39 says, they “knew not until the flood came.” And finally, (3) the wicked were ALL destroyed, verse 39 says, “the flood came, and took them all away.”

The days before the coming of Christ will see the wicked at ease living in pleasure, sin and carelessness, with no thought of eternity. The everyday occurrences of life (like eating, drinking and marriage) will continue as normal right up until Jesus comes. Christ's coming is going to catch the wicked unexpectedly. His arrival will surprise only those who are not prepared for it. The wrath of God is sudden and totally destructive. No one survives as this passage tells us.

 

[MA2444]

You fudge every question because you have to. For you to actually address simple questions would demolish your error. Your avoidance reinforces Posttrib truth.

Get bent. I told you before, you will control the narrative in a conversation with me.

You want to quote a post of mine and not address what I wrote and then demand that I answer a different question for you? Lol! Nice try wrong guy. Either address the scripture or be quiet.

 

[MA2444]

We note three particular characteristics of this day, which will be repeated at the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. (1) The wicked lived as if there was no judgement coming, verse 38 says, “they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage.” (2) The wicked were caught unexpected, verse 39 says, they “knew not until the flood came.” And finally, (3) the wicked were ALL destroyed, verse 39 says, “the flood came, and took them all away.”

The days before the coming of Christ will see the wicked at ease living in pleasure, sin and carelessness, with no thought of eternity. The everyday occurrences of life (like eating, drinking and marriage) will continue as normal right up until Jesus comes. Christ's coming is going to catch the wicked unexpectedly. His arrival will surprise only those who are not prepared for it. The wrath of God is sudden and totally destructive. No one survives as this passage tells us.

........................"......................" !!!

 

[WPM]

........................"......................" !!!

Lol. I addressed the passage and you avoided. What are you scared of?

 

[MA2444]

Lol. I addressed the passage and you avoided. What are you scared of?

Didnt you like the joke I posted earlier? (Not this, I wasnt joking here at all!)

 

[WPM]

Didnt you like the joke I posted earlier? (Not this, I wasnt joking here at all!)

Do you accept the rapture as a "coming" (parousia) of Christ?

 

[WPM]

........................"......................" !!!

If you believe the rapture is a "coming" (parousia) of Christ then you believe in 3 comings of Christ.

 

[MA2444]

If you believe the rapture is a "coming" (parousia) of Christ then you believe in 3 comings of Christ.

Yep. But it's really not because He doesnt come to the earth when He comes for His Bride. But most people have a bit of confusion with that.