It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

[rebuilder 454]

ALWAYS = RAPTURE is TRUTH = ALWAYS = i NEVER said other

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Both sides believe exactly that.

 

[rebuilder 454]

No deal if you want money from me! You dont know who your talking to. I'm Mr Cleans brother, I'm Mr. Poor man. Lol. This was your offer to me if I could show you where you called pre trib rapture is a lie. Not a bet. I'm not a betting man. I bet I spent less than $30 on the lotto in the last 30 yars. Prolly less than $20. That's how much I bet, lol.

Your either confident in what you say or you arent, If I do it, you owe me $50. If I cant, then I couldnt do it but I owe you nothing. Or no deal.

I'd still like you tell me tur truth about Matthew 24:44 brother. I cant reconcile that with a post trib view of the rapture.

When he made the boast, he never said it was a bet

He only offered you $30 of you could find a certain statement in his posts.
Now he wants it to be a bet.
...yet another thing he switches around on.

 

[David in NJ]

In your model, unbeknownst to you, there is NO BUYING OR SELLING, NO NORMAL LIFE.
And yet you can not comprehend that.
You can not comprehend your OWN MODEL.

Only in your brain, not mine

 

[David in NJ]

Both sides believe exactly yhat.

Here is the PROBLEM with your side

On the Right Side is God who says, over and over, His Coming brings the Resurrection = FIRST
AFTER that is the Rapture

On the left says: pre-trib rapture = lie #1 AND rapture before Resurrection - lie #2

TODAY, if you hear His Voice, harden not your heart
Repent from adding to God's words what HE never said and even worse reversing scripture.

Don't you know that satanists love to REVERSE scripture.............

 

[David in NJ]

When he made the boast, he never said it was a bet

He only offered you $30 of you could find a certain statement in his posts.
Now he wants it to be a bet.
...yet another thing he switches around on.

Notice three TRUTH's

#1 - i NEVER deny the Coming Resurrection AND the Rapture of the "alive remaining Saints"
#2 - i ALWAYS declare the words of JESUS and the Apostles = Tribulation BEFORE rapture
#3 - i ALWAYS declare the TRUTH = Blood washed saints are NOT appointed to God's Wrath

Important TRUTH
God's word was written for children - a place where 'intellectually minded' men stumble and fall

 

[MA2444]

When he made the boast, he never said it was a bet

He only offered you $30 of you could find a certain statement in his posts.
Now he wants it to be a bet.
...yet another thing he switches around on.

Your right Brother. It was @20 that he offered me. And I seen how long this thred is and how fast moving it is. $20 isnt enough to make me want to sift all those pages again, lol. But I'd do it for $50 Lol. Hey, I am a poor man and could use the money lol.

But suddenly he made it a bet! Wow I wonder how how he did that without my consent?
Then he decared victory because I didnt do it! Accused me of owing him 50 bucks! Lol! I got such a huge belly laugh at that! Thats typical behavior of those PCC types.

 

[MA2444]

Here is the PROBLEM with your side

#1 - i NEVER deny the Coming Resurrection AND the Rapture of the "alive remaining Saints"
#2 - i ALWAYS declare the words of JESUS and the Apostles = Tribulation BEFORE rapture
#3 - i ALWAYS declare the TRUTH = Blood washed saints are NOT appointed to God's Wrath

There it is. Your problem. You have put God into a box of your making. You refuse to step outside of that box to discuss the Lord. I have encouraged you many times to do this and it seems you wont.

Oh you take on the appearance of a loyal and righteous Christian brother. POsting scriptures about how much the Lord speaks truth and warning scriptures that us pre tribbers are somehow sinning by loking for Jesus so much more egerly than you that we watch for Him NOW, Today.

It's clear skies today, only mans contrails are what I see. So the rapture prolly isnt today, but it might be tonight, or tomorrow! I'll keep watching for Him brother. Just in case.

 

[David in NJ]

There it is. Your problem. You have put God into a box of your making. You refuse to step outside of that box to discuss the Lord. I have encouraged you many times to do this and it seems you wont.

Oh you take on the appearance of a loyal and righteous Christian brother. POsting scriptures about how much the Lord speaks truth and warning scriptures that us pre tribbers are somehow sinning by loking for Jesus so much more egerly than you that we watch for Him NOW, Today.

It's clear skies today, only mans contrails are what I see. So the rapture prolly isnt today, but it might be tonight, or tomorrow! I'll keep watching for Him brother. Just in case.

Important TRUTH
#1 - God's word was written for children - a place where 'intellectually minded' men stumble and fall

#2 - Serpent speak reverses the Order of God's words and adds to them = Read Genesis chapter 3

 

[rebuilder 454]

Here is the PROBLEM with your side

On the Right Side is God who says, over and over, His Coming brings the Resurrection = FIRST
AFTER that is the Rapture

On the left says: pre-trib rapture = lie #1 AND rapture before Resurrection - lie #2

TODAY, if you hear His Voice, harden not your heart
Repent from adding to God's words what HE never said and even worse reversing scripture.

Don't you know that satanists love to REVERSE scripture.............

Nobody believes the dead in Christ follow those raptured alive.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

That's not a bad thing to be! Hey, didn't Jesus say something about that?

And you miss the point yet again. I'm not talking about the gospel here that even little kids can understand. I'm talking about spiritual maturity in relation to understanding the deeper things in scripture here. Please read 1 Corinthians 2:9-16 and then maybe you can see what I'm talking about. I meant little kids in a spiritual sense. Like the "babes in Christ" that Paul rebuked in 1 Corinthians 3 who were only able to sip on the milk of God's word and weren't ready for the solid food. They could only understand the most simple things that were spelled out to them and couldn't understand deeper things that require the help of the Holy Spirit to understand.

Even Peter said that Paul taught some things that were difficult to understand, but he did not give anyone an excuse for not understanding what Paul wrote, as you can see here:

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Clearly, scripture isn't always just explicitly spelled out to us, yet we are still expected to understand it. Why? Because we have the Holy Spirit in us showing us what it means even when it isn't explicitly spelled out.

The text simply says, "after the 62 weeks". (I was incorrect earlier when I said "after the 69 weeks", it actually separates the 62 weeks from the first 7 weeks.

It's obviously implied that it's after the 69th week since we know that the 7 weeks comes before the 62 weeks.

Then it speaks of a week of a confirmed covenant, which it speaks of AFTER Messiah is cut off, at least, that's the sequence it appears in the text. Mind you, I've heard myriad timelines people have applied to this handful of verses.

62 weeks . . . then Messiah cut off . . . then a covenant confirmed for 1 week . . . in the middle of the week the sacrifice is stopped.

Yes. So, are you saying you don't think the one week of Daniel 9:27 is the 70th week? Not really sure what your point is here.

To me it's clear that the Messiah being cut off after the end of the 69th week places His death within the 70th week and His death must occur within the 70 weeks somewhere since it is crucial to fulfilling at least some of Daniel 9:24, as you acknowledged yourself (I believe it's crucial to fulfilling all of it).

 

[David in NJ]

Nobody believes the dead in Christ follow those raptured alive.

OH YES they do = @marks @Douggg @The Light and the paper crown divinities that you guys follow

 

[MA2444]

Important TRUTH
#1 - God's word was written for children - a place where 'intellectually minded' men stumble and fall

#2 - Serpent speak reverses the Order of God's words and adds to them = Read Genesis chapter 3

What are you saying here? Your being vague with me or else I'm being slow today, lol. You wrote 2 important truths that you hold to, but you never made a point, and...you started #3 but didnt finish? Why is that? Anyhoo,

#1 I agree with you completely and that's what I've been saying. So I read it like a dumb child. And believe what I have read, and you know children, the take things very literally! Plus, children are teachable they desire to know these things...

#2...You never made a point about so I dont now how to take it from what was too succinct of a post to make a point on it's own. So how about you finish this post and make your point so that we're on the same page?

#3...Again, you got me! I have no idea what was in your mind. I'm not Daniel, I am Edward. Nice to meet you...

 

[marks]

And you miss the point yet again. I'm not talking about the gospel here that even little kids can understand.

It's a justification to read things into the text that don't otherwise appear. "It's a spiritual understanding." No, not if it's not in Scripture. It seems that so many that have "spiritual understanding" don't have the same understandings as others who have "spiritual understanding".

I stay with, "What does the Bible say?"

Clearly, scripture isn't always just explicitly spelled out to us, yet we are still expected to understand it. Why? Because we have the Holy Spirit in us showing us what it means even when it isn't explicitly spelled out.

The Spirit will NEVER contradict Himself. Claiming "spiritual understanding" isn't some means to overturn what is written, it's so you can realize and accept what is being explicitly stated. Many gloss over words, gloss over meanings, gloss over real understanding, and call it "spiritual", but it's more like denial.

Much love!

 

[marks]

OH YES they do = @marks @Douggg @The Light and the paper crown divinities that you guys follow

OK, there's the depth of your "repentance". So maybe you understand how I'm not impressed with your claims for yourself.

It's your choice how you address others.

Much love!

 

[marks]

OH YES they do = @marks @Douggg @The Light and the paper crown divinities that you guys follow

And not to mention, you are flat out wrong here. What do you call it when you speak untruths of others? Hm?

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It's a justification to read things into the text that don't otherwise appear. "It's a spiritual understanding." No, not if it's not in Scripture. It seems that so many that have "spiritual understanding" don't have the same understandings as others who have "spiritual understanding".

I stay with, "What does the Bible say?"

Again, as I said before, the foundation of our doctrine should be on clear, straightforward scripture. We can use that, along with help from the Holy Spirit, to understand more difficult passages. Do you disagree with that approach? Do you think we don't ever need any help from the Holy Spirit to understand any scripture?

The Spirit will NEVER contradict Himself.

Of course not! Good grief. Why would you think you would even need to say this as if anyone doesn't know this?

Claiming "spiritual understanding" isn't some means to overturn what is written, it's so you can realize and accept what is being explicitly stated. Many gloss over words, gloss over meanings, gloss over real understanding, and call it "spiritual", but it's more like denial.

You are clearly not getting my point, so this is apparently a waste of time.

 

[rebuilder 454]

One thing I have noticed about Doctrine. When one's Doctrine is correct it continually lines up with the word of God it's like a basket weave. It's all interconnected and it builds upon itself. So I find it interesting in the following verses in rev 5;
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

That is great support for the pretrib rapture. Here we have redeemed Saints in heaven before the seals are even broken open.
That is the pre-trib Rapture right there,because they are in heaven and they're singing that song that they've been redeemed from the Earth.
Ahem...BEFORE THE TRIB.

 

[rebuilder 454]

And not to mention, you are flat out wrong here. What do you call it when you speak untruths of others? Hm?

Much love!

Postrib rapture, according to their own testimony, originated in the catholic church.
Not surprising that they agree, and both despise the thought of a pre-trib rapture.

 

[rebuilder 454]

It's a justification to read things into the text that don't otherwise appear. "It's a spiritual understanding." No, not if it's not in Scripture. It seems that so many that have "spiritual understanding" don't have the same understandings as others who have "spiritual understanding".

I stay with, "What does the Bible say?"

The Spirit will NEVER contradict Himself. Claiming "spiritual understanding" isn't some means to overturn what is written, it's so you can realize and accept what is being explicitly stated. Many gloss over words, gloss over meanings, gloss over real understanding, and call it "spiritual", but it's more like denial.

Much love!

SI is amil.
Amil doctrine that you are talking to.

 

[MA2444]

Postrib rapture, according to their own testimony, originated in the catholic church.
Not surprising that they agree, and both despise the thought of a pre-trib rapture.

That's right! We are of the early church. The church that was in place before the RCC ever came on the scene.