It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

[David in NJ]

Jesus taught a lot about the rapture! What are you saying?

No rapture? Nothing to look forward to? I'm sorry brother, that aint my God. My God is the one that IS coming with a pretrib rapture!

Pretty cloudy out, it could be today! Uh-Oh, did I just sin? Bwahahahahaha! You know why the 5 foolish virgins didnt get to attend the ceremony? They wasnt eagerly awaiting his return so they didnt bother to stop off and get extra oil. They wasnt eager or watching like the wise virgins were, so they got left behind.

ALWAYS = RAPTURE is TRUTH = ALWAYS = i NEVER said other

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[David in NJ]

I have seriously bad news . If a mans heart is set on deceptoin , can no man pry that mind off his own deception .
And if you dont believe me , JUST KEEP ON bringing loads of scrips . and you watch what they do .
What a man desires is what he will cling too , he will hold onto it with both hands and wrap his legs around it
and do all to not let go of that which he desires .
I ONLY WISH FOLKS had that DESIRE FOR TRUTH .
You should start asking questoins to people and YOU will see the WHY folks believe as they believe and why
its in error .
YEARS ago , when i was given my first computer i went onto it and found a christain site
at that time i had been following the LORD about five years and had been reading the bible for hours every day .
NOW upon arriving at this site . I noticed a ton of doctrines i had never even heard of .
AS i said , i was BIBLE learned , not church learned .
ANYWAY i began to see some serious and deadly errors within said doctrines .
I noticed no matter how much biblical doctrine i brought
they twisted it , omitted it ,
I wondered how on earth can so many believe so much error .
THEN a real small voice came to me .
WOULD you like to know what that voice said .
IT said YOU GO and bring the basic teachings of JESUS , HIS WORDS
to them and YE shall find they twist them . I DID , AND I SURE SEEN they did omit them .
THAT IS WHY men often might learn a whole lot and much of it can seem right and yet it do contain error .
THEY can teach all day on meats , or what they believe are spritiual meats and docrtrines , BUT ARE NOT .
THEY DO NOT EMBRACE ALL THINGS JESUS HIMSELF SAID , or ALL things the apostels did .
THEY embrace at best , SOME THINGS . BINGO and BULLEYES . PROOF something is dead wrong in their heart .

AS i said , i was BIBLE learned , not church learned

SAME here my Brother

 

[gpresdo]

If it were Truth it, God would of said it in His Word.

Can you find just one declaration of 'pre-trib' rapture? = Just one

Legal and legitimate Offer for $1,000 USD to anyone who can post just one scripture that declares:
a.) JESUS saying, "I will not permit My elect/saints/Church to suffer under the AoD"
b.) JESUS or the Apostles saying, "We(Church/Saints/Elect) will not be here when the Antichrist rises to power.
c.) JESUS or the Apostles or OT Prophecy, prophesying of more then ONE Resurrection for the Saints/Elect/Church
d.) JESUS or the Apostles saying: the Rapture PRECEEDS the Resurrection

If i had money i would up the Reward to $1,000,000.00

SHALOM only in the TRUTH = Thy word is Truth"

You want to be funny....get better and you can be taken on the road as a comic, but keep your day job.

What does ..."taken up" mean. If you wish you can call it....x y or z...but properly represented would have to be ...removed....called up....beckoned....called home...welcomed away....extracted...etc....if you wish it doesn't matter, it would still mean Rapture, a word chosen by early Bible interpreters to represent the Bible's intent..... and it does so..... more well....(I like that LOL) than any other word.

 

[David in NJ]

We are fast building to that great and last hour of massive tribulation against the saints who would not conform to a lie .
our message shall remain the same as the message JESUS gave to HIS own .
IN THIS WORLD YE SHALL HAVE TRIBULATIONS
Some of you they shall put to death and they will deliver you up to authorities . YE shall be hated of all nations for my name sake
BUT he who ENDURES TO THE END the same shall be saved .
That which is of anti christ , sadly many now sit under its version of love to unify this world , its religoins to be as one .
The greatest hour of tribulation the church has ever seen will come out from this merger as they are convinced
the great time of the crusades against any and all who conformed not MUST BEGIN .
EVEN now some are being taught that true biblical christaintiy fundamental
is a disease upon earth . and they believe they are the cure . and the cure for the ills of this world
to them is , RID THE EARTH OF ALL THAT CONFORMED NOT . david , ITS COMING . and it can Begin
at any time . THIS WORLD is already decieved , much of christendom is already decieved .
Look at how fast a peoples leaped up to support hitler who promised them their desires .
THIS can kick off at any time DAvid . and when they come for us
to rid this earth of all that conformed not , GUESS WHOSE WILL they will believe they do .
GODS . as they already now believe its his will for this so called broad path , JESUS DENYING as the only way
junk pile which is of anti christ . Its increasing david . the hearts of the peoples
under its spell , are getting harder and harder against truth and any kind of reminder against their sin or their path .
ITS PICKING up pace david .

YE shall be hated of all nations for my name sake

Today, we are also hated by all denomi-nations as well.

 

[David in NJ]

You want to be funny....get better and you can be taken on the road as a comic, but keep your day job.

What does ..."taken up" mean. If you wish you can call it....x y or z...but properly represented would have to be ...removed....called up....beckoned....called home...welcomed away....extracted...etc....if you wish it doesn't matter,, it would still mean Rapture, a word chosen by early Bible interpreters to represent the Bible's intent..... and it does so..... more well....(I like that LOL) than any other word.

Thank You my friend - i enjoy a good lol

IMPORTANT = The RAPTURE of the Saints at His Coming is PURE TRUTH from ABOVE in CHRIST

 

[amigo de christo]

SAME here my Brother

It seems to show my friend . Those who learned those bibles seem to be the ones who KNOW TRUTH .
those who sat under men who twisted stuff seem to be , well in serious trouble at times and have been often
decieved .
I have one simple suggestion to all who even name the name of JESUS THE CHRIST .
I want everone to pick up their bible and begin to read it a few hours a day FOR THEMSELVES .
Keep doing it , enjoy it . Its such a lovely book .
Do not read it through the lens of your teachers . JUST read it and enjoy it .
THEN in about three months lets sit down and discuss things .
I BET MOST ARE GONNA AGREE ON a whole lot of stuff . YOU SEE men have been deceiving us .
So many doctrines , so many teachings . Some good but most contain errors .
IF we really want to know if what we have been taught is true .
THEN LETS DO THIS and LETS SEE WHAT HAPPENS . ENJOY my freinds .

 

[amigo de christo]

Thank You my friend - i enjoy a good lol

IMPORTANT = The RAPTURE of the Saints at His Coming is PURE TRUTH from ABOVE in CHRIST

AT HIS COMING . which is a ONE TIME EVENT .
in which HE ALSO LAYS DOWN THE WRATH OF ALL MIGHTY GOD against the beast , fp , and all who followed it .
THIS IS a ONE TIME EVENT .
BUT beware . The wrath , the tribulation of the beast and of men and the world
THAT DO COME AGAINST THE SAINTS .
I WISH folks would read the bible for THEM SELVES .
HOW do you think i learned that . As i said i never learned in church , but i did read a book most dont read for themselves .
I give us all the pepsi , or in this case the bible challenge .
Read that book a few hours every day . no other books .
Love and embrace and enjoy it . DO so every day . WATCH WHAT HAPPENS . just watch , wait and see .
ALL of a sudden questions in heads shall start arising , saying but wait my pastor says this
and yet the BIBLE says something else . Just watch .

 

[David in NJ]

AT HIS COMING . which is a ONE TIME EVENT .
in which HE ALSO LAYS DOWN THE WRATH OF ALL MIGHTY GOD against the beast , fp , and all who followed it .
THIS IS a ONE TIME EVENT .
BUT beware . The wrath , the tribulation of the beast and of men and the world
THAT DO COME AGAINST THE SAINTS .
I WISH folks would read the bible for THEM SELVES .
HOW do you think i learned that . As i said i never learned in church , but i did read a book most dont read for themselves .
I give us all the pepsi , or in this case the bible challenge .
Read that book a few hours every day . no other books .
Love and embrace and enjoy it . DO so every day . WATCH WHAT HAPPENS . just watch , wait and see .
ALL of a sudden questions in heads shall start arising , saying but wait my pastor says this
and yet the BIBLE says something else . Just watch .

Says it right here in God's Little lambs Book: 1 Thess 1:10

and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.


God's Truth in one simple sentence that even a little lamb can understand = My sheep know my Voice, another they will not follow.

 

[amigo de christo]

Today, we are also hated by all denomi-nations as well.

that hate will build up and continue to build up till murder time begins . hate is murder and will lead to murder .
Its coming my friend . What others have faced through all ages , will continue as it has to increase .
But this tribulation i speak of my friend , ITS THE CULIMINATION HOUR and its gonna be a massive one .
THEY are UNIFYING DAVID . like never before . i am watching full grown imams even bow to the will
of this harlot . this unifying harlot that has taken captive the kings and presidents and etc of this world
and is promoting its messages through religoins , through education , media , it s all over the place david .
ITS all over churches even . THEY are merging david . and its gonna keep speeding up .
IF folks think things aint gonna get harsh , THEY IN for an awaking , IF THEY HAVE NOT SOLD OUT FIRST .
many are now BUYING THE LIE david . I mean the STRONG DELUSION LIE . that which is of anti christ
and has been of anti christ . EVEN NOW we have so very very many anti christs
and most just see them as the most loving christlike people . THEY SEE THE TRUE SAINTS as anti christs and haters .
ON THAT PATH BLOOD SHED IS SOON TO FOLLOW .
and now a word . I SLEEP AS A WEE TINY BABY having NO FEAR . IF I Iive its for CHRIST and if I DIE i am with HIM .
LET us fear not what is nor what is to come against us . THE lambs HAVE THE ONE TRUE GOD ,
they have JESUS THE CHRIST . whether we live or die WE ARE HIS .

 

[David in NJ]

You want to be funny....get better and you can be taken on the road as a comic, but keep your day job.

What does ..."taken up" mean. If you wish you can call it....x y or z...but properly represented would have to be ...removed....called up....beckoned....called home...welcomed away....extracted...etc....if you wish it doesn't matter, it would still mean Rapture, a word chosen by early Bible interpreters to represent the Bible's intent..... and it does so..... more well....(I like that LOL) than any other word.

@gpresdo

i need some clarification please

Can you please show me the verse that declares the rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

ONLY the verse that says rapture/catching up - Thank You

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18Therefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[David in NJ]

that hate will build up and continue to build up till murder time begins . hate is murder and will lead to murder .
Its coming my friend . What others have faced through all ages , will continue as it has to increase .
But this tribulation i speak of my friend , ITS THE CULIMINATION HOUR and its gonna be a massive one .
THEY are UNIFYING DAVID . like never before . i am watching full grown imams even bow to the will
of this harlot . this unifying harlot that has taken captive the kings and presidents and etc of this world
and is promoting its messages through religoins , through education , media , it s all over the place david .
ITS all over churches even . THEY are merging david . and its gonna keep speeding up .
IF folks think things aint gonna get harsh , THEY IN for an awaking , IF THEY HAVE NOT SOLD OUT FIRST .
many are now BUYING THE LIE david . I mean the STRONG DELUSION LIE . that which is of anti christ
and has been of anti christ . EVEN NOW we have so very very man anti christs
and most just see them as the most loving christlike people . THEY SEE THE TRUE SAINTS as anti christs and haters .
ON THAT PATH BLOOD SHED IS SOON TO FOLLOW .
and now a word . I SLEEP AS A WEE TINY BABY having NO FEAR . IF I Iive its for CHRIST and if I DIE i am with HIM .
LET us fear not what is nor what is to come against us . THE lambs HAVE THE ONE TRUE GOD ,
they have JESUS THE CHRIST . whether we live or die WE ARE HIS .

This is why the LORD tells us to 'speak and encourage one another Daily from/in His words'

 

[amigo de christo]

@gpresdo

i need some clarification please

Can you please show me the verse that declares the rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

ONLY the verse that says rapture/catching up - Thank You

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18Therefore comfort one another with these words.

david quoate the part of the first chapter of SECOND thess to him as well .
SEE real clearly what paul tells the church . SEE WHEN IT OCCURS and see what happens .
ITS A ONE TIME EVENT . show him this . its very clear . look at what paul wrote to the church
concering tribulations and concerning what GOD shall bring on those who cause tribulation upon us .
LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENS TO THOSE WHO ARE and LOOK what happens to those who are persecuting us .
ITS A ONE TIME EVENT . show him this .

 

[amigo de christo]

This is why the LORD tells us to 'speak and encourage one another Daily from/in His words'

Show him second thessalonians chapter ONE , verse four through ten . ITS VERY VERY VERY CLEAR . show him this .

 

[David in NJ]

david quoate the part of the first chapter of SECOND thess to him as well .
SEE real clearly what paul tells the church . SEE WHEN IT OCCURS and see what happens .
ITS A ONE TIME EVENT . show him this . its very clear . look at what paul wrote to the church
concering tribulations and concerning what GOD shall bring on those who cause tribulation upon us .
LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENS TO THOSE WHO ARE and LOOK what happens to those who are persecuting us .
ITS A ONE TIME EVENT . show him this .

It is in 1 Thess chapter 3 as well = Tribulations and persecutions even unto death BEFORE we get to chapter 4 and His Coming

 

[MA2444]

ALWAYS = RAPTURE is TRUTH = ALWAYS = i NEVER said other

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

You really should have included verse 13 also.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
13 And now, dear brothers and sisters, we want you to know what will happen to the believers who have died[a] so you will not grieve like people who have no hope.
14 For since we believe that Jesus died and was raised to life again, we also believe that when Jesus returns, God will bring back with him the believers who have died.
15 We tell you this directly from the Lord: We who are still living when the Lord returns will not meet him ahead of those who have died.[b]
16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, the believers who have died[c] will rise from their graves.
17 Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Then we will be with the Lord forever.
18 So encourage each other with these words..../NLT

That's a rapture passage. I thought you said he never talks about the rapture?

So what's your point with this?

 

[David in NJ]

You really should have included verse 13 also.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
13 And now, dear brothers and sisters, we want you to know what will happen to the believers who have died[a] so you will not grieve like people who have no hope.
14 For since we believe that Jesus died and was raised to life again, we also believe that when Jesus returns, God will bring back with him the believers who have died.
15 We tell you this directly from the Lord: We who are still living when the Lord returns will not meet him ahead of those who have died.[b]
16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, the believers who have died[c] will rise from their graves.
17 Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Then we will be with the Lord forever.
18 So encourage each other with these words..../NLT

That's a rapture passage. I thought you said he never talks about the rapture?

So what's your point with this?

That's a rapture passage. I thought you said he never talks about the rapture?

You are confusing me with some members on here who DENY the Rapture of the Saints at His Coming.

What else do you SEE in 1 Thess 4:13-18 ???

 

[amigo de christo]

It is in 1 Thess chapter 3 as well = Tribulations and persecutions even unto death BEFORE we get to chapter 4 and His Coming

its perhaps the clearest of all in second thess chapter one verses four through ten .
HE EVEN TELLS us THE WHEN we get our rest and the WHEN they get the wrath of GOD who perseucted us .
Now do notice paul never said , NO WORRIES GOD is gonna wisk ya away before THEY PERSECUTE YOU .
NO SIR HE TOLD THEM WE WILL BE PERSEUCTED . and it ends WHEN . WHEN JESUS COMES FOR HIS SAINTS
to lay down the warth of GOD against THEM . at HIS COMING , a one time event .

 

[David in NJ]

its perhaps the clearest of all in second thess chapter one verses four through ten .
HE EVEN TELLS us THE WHEN we get our rest and the WHEN they get the wrath of GOD who perseucted us .
Now do notice paul never said , NO WORRIES GOD is gonna wisk ya away before THEY PERSECUTE YOU .
NO SIR HE TOLD THEM WE WILL BE PERSEUCTED . and it ends WHEN . WHEN JESUS COMES FOR HIS SAINTS
to lay down the warth of GOD against THEM . at HIS COMING , a one time event .

So we SEE in both 1st and 2nd Letters to the Thessalonican saints (and us) that tribulation and persecutions will precede His Coming.

Therefore the phrase 'pre-trib' in direct relationship to the rapture is antithetical

 

[amigo de christo]

You are confusing me with some members on here who DENY the Rapture of the Saints at His Coming.

What else do you SEE in 1 Thess 4:13-18 ???

correct my friend . there are some who say THERE IS NO RAPTURE at all . NOT TRUE as we both know .
WE just know this occurs at THE COMING OF THE LORD . a one time event .

 

[MA2444]

You are confusing me with some members on here who DENY the Rapture of the Saints at His Coming.

What else do you SEE in 1 Thess 4:13-18 ???

No I'm nott confusing you with someone else. You are the one who keeps posting that stuff like Rapture + False Lies against God and all that sort of crap. So now you do believe in the rapture? Or what?

Youre contradicting yourself or else Ijust can not follow you and what youre saying.