It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

[IndianaRob]

The First Resurrection to Eternal life, was Jesus.
The next resurrection will be of the martyrs killed during the Great Trib. Revelation 20:4
The final resurrection is at the Great White Throne Judgment. Revelation 20:11-15 Then; only those whose names are found in the Book of Life will receive immortality.

Thank you sir. I couldn’t remember your views on that subject.

 

[David in NJ]

The First Resurrection to Eternal life, was Jesus.
The next resurrection will be of the martyrs killed during the Great Trib. Revelation 20:4
The final resurrection is at the Great White Throne Judgment. Revelation 20:11-15 Then; only those whose names are found in the Book of Life will receive immortality.

What do you believe is this Resurrection? - 1 Thess 4:13-16

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.

 

[Keraz]

What do you believe is this Resurrection? - 1 Thess 4:13-16

....and the dead in Christ will rise first.
This refers to Jesus bringing back to life the GT martyrs. As per Rev 20:4.
It does not say 'all' the dead in Christ; and Rev 20:5 specifically states that the rest of the dead must wait until the thousand years is over.

All the fanciful notions of people who entertain ideas of a general resurrection and the weird idea of 'glorified bodies', are wrong and cannot happen.

 

[WalkInLight]

There has to be a thousand year reign of Jesus as King over the world, in order to fulfil Gods promises to His Son, Psalms 2:4-9, Psalms 110:2-4, Zechariah 14:16-21, Isaiah 2:2-4, +
Do not make the mistake that some here do; by making the plain narrative of Revelation 20 into a 'highly symbolic' chapter and having the unbelievable idea of us being in the Millennium now.

The verses you quote are open ended and could fit many different situations.
The term a day is a thousand years, and a thousand years is as a day, means using the terms day or thousand year could
be a generic term for an undetermined period.

My problem with premillennialism is the idea of domination of fear of not being part of the rapture and painting
church attendance as the re requisite to being raptured. It tends to be a middle class idea of belonging rather than
facing up to putting our lives on the line for Jesus. In reality many Christians die for their faith and love despite hatred
and evil all around them. Rather than taking the scriptures as encouragement to persevere it is painted as you will be
spared testing if you just join us.

I grew up with these false prophecies and insane descriptions of who was the anti-Christ.
The same folk now would hold Trump is their deliverer but is closer to the enemy than a true example of a life worth living.

Unfortunately cults love a charismatic speaker who will lead followers out of this evil dangerous world into paradise.
Where they do wrong is picking the wrong friends and making the wrong enemies, and when their prophecies fail
claim they are not a false prophet or teacher just they got the dates wrong. If you were going to die tomorrow and
someone saves you, that is a powerful action, so such messages are addictive, but not of the Lord.

We are simply called to bring the Kingdom of God into our lives today and live as lights of Gods love to others as
we walk along. The light is the walk, not the rapture, but if the church is defeated and almost irrelevant, spice up
failure with deliverance and purpose rather than repent and learn how to respect and see people with love in ones
heart and really help the poor and needy. God bless you

 

[David in NJ]

....and the dead in Christ will rise first.
This refers to Jesus bringing back to life the GT martyrs. As per Rev 20:4.
It does not say 'all' the dead in Christ; and Rev 20:5 specifically states that the rest of the dead must wait until the thousand years is over.

All the fanciful notions of people who entertain ideas of a general resurrection and the weird idea of 'glorified bodies', are wrong and cannot happen.

READ AGAIN

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep/died in Jesus.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep/dead.

 

[MA2444]

God is not bound and directed by nature = "3 harvests"

In the GOSPEL, our LORD Jesus Christ only spoke of ONE Harvest = John 4:34-38

Of course God is not bound by nature's rules. Nature is bound by God's rules! However We were created in His image and He is Father/Son/Holy Spirit. God seems to like doing things with numbers, He did it all through scripture. Now I'm not saying that there are 3 literal harvests. The Harvest is the Harvest. One crop is planted and one harvest is delivered up to us out of the ground. Harvest isn't over just because there were First Fruits. So you wander into the garden early early in the harvest season, and you may find some of those first fruits and that always brings a smile on to the Farmers face! SO he ttakes them to enjoy, but it is not harvest time yet!
And at the main harvest collection, there will be some fruits that look like they will be good fruit, but they're obviously unripe still and need some more time, so those are left behind to ripen.

I thought it was a good analogy, lol. I know they dont look at the fruit in an earthly harvest nowadays because they use giant machines and stuff. In fact they prolly harvest when the fruit is unripe, so it it doesnt become overripe by th time it reaches market.
But it's alway better if it can ripen on the vine.

And that's kind of what God will be doing. It's really one harvest, but if you've ever had a large garden you'll know what I'm talking about, We had a huge garden when I was a kid! We used to play hookey from school in the woods down by the creek, and we would sneak up to the garden and gather food for our lunch! It was great!

"Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work.
Do you not say, ‘There are still four months and then comes the harvest’?
Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look at the fields, for they are already white for harvest!
And he who reaps receives wages, and gathers fruit for eternal life, that both he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together. For in this the saying is true: ‘One sows and another reaps.’ I sent you to reap that for which you have not labored; others have labored, and you have entered into their labors.”

Feed on TRUTH and you will be strong in the TRUTH

feed on religion and you will be as the religion you feed on

I can't disagree with any of that!

 

[Keraz]

The verses you quote are open ended and could fit many different situations.

Those verses fit the Millennium period. Nowhere else.

My problem with premillennialism is the idea of domination of fear of not being part of the rapture

There will be no rapture to heaven of the Church. We must endure until the end, but to know what God has planned for His people, will be a great help to get thru it all safely.

 

[David in NJ]

Of course God is not bound by nature's rules. Nature is bound by God's rules! However We were created in His image and He is Father/Son/Holy Spirit. God seems to like doing things with numbers, He did it all through scripture. Now I'm not saying that there are 3 literal harvests. The Harvest is the Harvest. One crop is planted and one harvest is delivered up to us out of the ground. Harvest isn't over just because there were First Fruits. So you wander into the garden early early in the harvest season, and you may find some of those first fruits and that always brings a smile on to the Farmers face! SO he ttakes them to enjoy, but it is not harvest time yet!
And at the main harvest collection, there will be some fruits that look like they will be good fruit, but they're obviously unripe still and need some more time, so those are left behind to ripen.

I thought it was a good analogy, lol. I know they dont look at the fruit in an earthly harvest nowadays because they use giant machines and stuff. In fact they prolly harvest when the fruit is unripe, so it it doesnt become overripe by th time it reaches market.
But it's alway better if it can ripen on the vine.

And that's kind of what God will be doing. It's really one harvest, but if you've ever had a large garden you'll know what I'm talking about, We had a huge garden when I was a kid! We used to play hookey from school in the woods down by the creek, and we would sneak up to the garden and gather food for our lunch! It was great!



I can't disagree with any of that!

Now I'm not saying that there are 3 literal harvests.

EXCELLENT! = BULLSEYE!

The Harvest is the Harvest.

This is EXACTLY what the LORD says to us!

A.) JESUS says the Harvest Began when He came in the flesh = John 4:35

B.)JESUS says there is only One HARVEST and it Culminates at His Second Coming = the Resurrection followed by the Rapture

He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man.
The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.
The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.
The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.
He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

My Brother in Salvation and Truth = Only One HARVEST at the End

It's really one harvest,

AMEN AMEN AMEN = You AGREE with the very words of our Savior and Redeemer = the LORD Jesus Christ

i am going to let you in on something that mature adults are unable to SEE

God's word is a Children's Book, written for His Children

Thank you for the love you shared in your post = received!

 

[Keraz]

READ AGAIN

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep/died in Jesus.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep/dead.

Good, I don't need glasses to read your rants.
There is a little word missing from the Words you bolded. It is 'all'. Rev 20:4 is proof that Jesus will NOT bring all of the dead Christians at His Return.
Why must you demand that He does?

 

[David in NJ]

Good, I don't need glasses to read your rants.
There is a little word missing from the Words you bolded. It is 'all'. Rev 20:4 is proof that Jesus will NOT bring all of the dead Christians at His Return.
Why must you demand that He does?

God the Father, the Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit COMMANDED that ALL Come with Him at His Second Coming!!!

Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.

There is ONLY ONE RESURRECTION to Eternal Life and it is ONLY for us who are in CHRIST.

And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write,

‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life: “I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.” ’

 

[David in NJ]

Of course God is not bound by nature's rules. Nature is bound by God's rules! However We were created in His image and He is Father/Son/Holy Spirit. God seems to like doing things with numbers, He did it all through scripture. Now I'm not saying that there are 3 literal harvests. The Harvest is the Harvest. One crop is planted and one harvest is delivered up to us out of the ground. Harvest isn't over just because there were First Fruits. So you wander into the garden early early in the harvest season, and you may find some of those first fruits and that always brings a smile on to the Farmers face! SO he ttakes them to enjoy, but it is not harvest time yet!
And at the main harvest collection, there will be some fruits that look like they will be good fruit, but they're obviously unripe still and need some more time, so those are left behind to ripen.

I thought it was a good analogy, lol. I know they dont look at the fruit in an earthly harvest nowadays because they use giant machines and stuff. In fact they prolly harvest when the fruit is unripe, so it it doesnt become overripe by th time it reaches market.
But it's alway better if it can ripen on the vine.

And that's kind of what God will be doing. It's really one harvest, but if you've ever had a large garden you'll know what I'm talking about, We had a huge garden when I was a kid! We used to play hookey from school in the woods down by the creek, and we would sneak up to the garden and gather food for our lunch! It was great!



I can't disagree with any of that!

Post 448 edited at 9:30pm EST

Good Night Brother who loves the Lord Jesus Christ

 

[MA2444]

"The Harvest is the Harvest."

This is EXACTLY what the LORD says to us!

Doesnt surprise me but I dint pull that one from scripture, just from earth experiences. Everything on earth is types and shadows of Heaven. Right now we're seeing how not to do it, later in the Millenium He shows us for 1000 years how it was supposed to be!

B.)JESUS says there is only One HARVEST and it Culminates at His Second Coming = the Resurrection followed by the Rapture

He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man.
The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.
The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.
The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.
He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

My Brother in Salvation and Truth = Only One HARVEST at the End

Right, one harvest for one crop. Which is what the Lords earth crop is and will be. Even if He takes some out in a pretrib rapture, which might or might not be the biggest harvest it could be after the Great Trib and Millenium. Think about it, starting at the beginning of the 1000 yr Millenium, there wont be any abortions. There wont be no wars. For 1000 years! And humans will continue to be born all during that 1000 years...and we breed like rabbits! So what will the world population be on earth then?

There will be on earth during the Millenium both resurrection saints that already have their spiritual bodies, and there will be normal humans being born. This last harvest could indeed be the biggest harvest of them all (of the one). because the normal humans being born and growing up during the Millenium still have the adamic nature and will have to choose, and become born again during that time. I'm guessing that some may choose death, but the lions share will be saved, so the last and biggest harves of the the earth's harvest. ??

 

[WPM]

There will be on earth during the Millenium both resurrection saints that already have their spiritual bodies, and there will be normal humans being born. This last harvest could indeed be the biggest harvest of them all (of the one). because the normal humans being born and growing up during the Millenium still have the adamic nature and will have to choose, and become born again during that time. I'm guessing that some may choose death, but the lions share will be saved, so the last and biggest harves of the the earth's harvest. ??

How about showing us explicit text in Revelation 20 (or anywhere else in Scripture) that actually teaches this.

 

[Keraz]

There is ONLY ONE RESURRECTION to Eternal Life and it is ONLY for us who are in CHRIST.

Sure there is.
It will happen when the Bible informs us: At the end of the Millennium.

There will be on earth during the Millenium both resurrection saints that already have their spiritual bodies, and there will be normal humans being born.

Unscriptural nonsense. Purely your false belief, proved wrong by the many scriptures that describe the Millennium period with mortal humans. Isaiah 65:20

Explain how anyone receives immortality before Judgment and the Book of Life is opened.

 

[MA2444]

Unscriptural nonsense. Purely your false belief, proved wrong by the many scriptures that describe the Millennium period with mortal humans. Isaiah 65:20

Explain how anyone receives immortality before Judgment and the Book of Life is opened.

Doesnt it say that we get transfigured at the rapture? Transformed in a twinkling of the eye?
Now maybe that's immortal or maybe it isnt, maybe they do have yet to put on immortlity? So we'll still need to eat. That could be.

And perhaps the Lord will bring back the tree of life and we will eat from it?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Good Morning,

Please post the "2 comings of the Lord" in Matt ch24

Thank You

We all know he comes after the trib on white horses.
That word " before" Jesus uses later on around vs 38.
"Before" , is some secret deal in postribber land.
They will talk all around it, never seem to comprehend it.
Jesus declared Before the Flood there was Every Day Life, normal life, and commerce buying and selling people getting married.
So Jesus declares that Noah is gathered Before the Flood in normal life.
in other words everything pre-trib Rapture believes.
Jesus declares that before the flood one is taken and one is left. Which is the pesky 50% taken and 50% left behind.
Jesus goes on to declare Before the Flood watch and be ready. So it's up to the postribber to try to convert all of that into Revelation 19 and the white horses. All I can say is good luck.

Two vivid , and separate comings declared in mat 24.

Ahem...you do realize there is no postrib gathering in Lot or Noah's examples that Jesus used.
Lot...pretrib
Noah ....pretrib.
Nothing at all postrib concerning either of them....zero.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Doesnt it say that we get transfigured at the rapture? Transformed in a twinkling of the eye?
Now maybe that's immortal or maybe it isnt, maybe they do have yet to put on immortlity? So we'll still need to eat. That could be.

And perhaps the Lord will bring back the tree of life and we will eat from it?

That would be
Yes
Yes
Yes
And yes.
To all of those

 

[rebuilder 454]

Luke 21:36​

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
The catching up " pre-trip rapture" is a believers escape from the wrath to soon come. And you???

Bingo.
Someone is reading for comprehension and acknowledges what the Bible plainly says.

 

[David in NJ]

We all know he comes after the trib on white horses.
That word " before" Jesus uses later on around vs 38.
"Before" , is some secret deal in postribber land.
They will talk all around it, never seem to comprehend it.
Jesus declared Before the Flood there was Every Day Life, normal life, and commerce buying and selling people getting married.
So Jesus declares that Noah is gathered Before the Flood in normal life.
in other words everything pre-trib Rapture believes.
Jesus declares that before the flood one is taken and one is left. Which is the pesky 50% taken and 50% left behind.
Jesus goes on to declare Before the Flood watch and be ready. So it's up to the postribber to try to convert all of that into Revelation 19 and the white horses. All I can say is good luck.

Two vivid , and separate comings declared in mat 24.

Ahem...you do realize there is no postrib gathering in Lot or Noah's examples that Jesus used.
Lot...pretrib
Noah ....pretrib.
Nothing at all postrib concerning either of them....zero.

WHAT!!! - no 'good morning' from you my Brother?
==============================================================================

Good Morning @rebuilder 454

Matt 24:38-39
For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

What is there here that is not visible to our EYES?

Noah and family were under constant threat and tribulation from the world at that time.
GOD Delivered them from HIS WRATH = Global FLOOD is the WRATH of GOD

 

[rebuilder 454]

Of course God is not bound by nature's rules. Nature is bound by God's rules! However We were created in His image and He is Father/Son/Holy Spirit. God seems to like doing things with numbers, He did it all through scripture. Now I'm not saying that there are 3 literal harvests. The Harvest is the Harvest. One crop is planted and one harvest is delivered up to us out of the ground. Harvest isn't over just because there were First Fruits. So you wander into the garden early early in the harvest season, and you may find some of those first fruits and that always brings a smile on to the Farmers face! SO he ttakes them to enjoy, but it is not harvest time yet!
And at the main harvest collection, there will be some fruits that look like they will be good fruit, but they're obviously unripe still and need some more time, so those are left behind to ripen.

I thought it was a good analogy, lol. I know they dont look at the fruit in an earthly harvest nowadays because they use giant machines and stuff. In fact they prolly harvest when the fruit is unripe, so it it doesnt become overripe by th time it reaches market.
But it's alway better if it can ripen on the vine.

And that's kind of what God will be doing. It's really one harvest, but if you've ever had a large garden you'll know what I'm talking about, We had a huge garden when I was a kid! We used to play hookey from school in the woods down by the creek, and we would sneak up to the garden and gather food for our lunch! It was great!



I can't disagree with any of that!

The harvests do definately illustrate end times
You are correct.
Wheat harvest
Barley harvest
Fruit harvest.

Harvest can be broken into three or four parts, depending on how you look at it. You have the first fruits, then the main Harvest, then the corners, and then The Gleaners. This is all depicted in the Book of Ruth. Note that Naomi does not play a role in The Harvest but a indirect role. This is because Ruth who is in the main Harvest and in the Gleaner Harvest is directly depicted in the grain Harvest. The Jew, Naomi, would be reserved and depicted in the Fruit Harvest. Note that Boaz marries Ruth and not Naomi. But Naomi is given the child of Boaz and Ruth to nurse it. That is depicted as the two covenants becoming one. All of this goes to the depiction of the two Covenants and what we learn from Romans 9,10 and 11, Is that God has two wives.
He has the Gentile bride ,and he has the Wayward wife which is the Jew.
And all of that goes to the purpose of the tribulation.
it is called Jacob's trouble or you could say Israel's trouble. The tribulation is strictly for the Jewish people.
The times of the Gentile has ended at the rapture.
Those Left Behind are immediately martyred. And that goes to the fact that the time of the Gentile must end for the tribulation.
Which is to plow up the Jew , and get them ready for their Gathering ,or Rapture, in Revelation 14 which is about mid-trib in the 7-year tribulation.