Is your faith defined by what you DON'T believe? - The anti-doctrinal stance

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
13,971
5,710
113
69
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Reading this forum, or any Christian forum it is easy to see those defined by what they don't believe.
Scan the topic titles and you can see it. Read a thread and see respondents lining up on either side of a doctrinal issue.

This may be an opportunity for some self-examination. (for me too)

Is your faith defined by what you believe, or by what you DON'T believe?

Do you make a career out of being anti-doctrinal?

[
 

Lambano

Well-Known Member
Jul 13, 2021
8,573
11,705
113
Island of Misfit Toys
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
i-dont-believe-that-for-a-second-chuck-nice.gif
 
  • Haha
Reactions: St. SteVen

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
16,575
5,513
113
34
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
As a man who doesn't care much for public opinion but can respect the opinions of others. There are people out here in this world that need, care and love. That is all that I know and what revolves around the whole of the bible. With death, and destruction even implemented by the LORD GOD to have people killed off; I respect it. Who am I that God owes me anything right? Well, things definitely changed when Jesus set things right. And while people openly profess not to even be Christian, or care about Yahavah, all I can do is in Christ love them. You know what I mean? I know myself in the mirror, like Yahavah knows me. I am not afraid of using foul language in front of those who can handle it or making a sexual joke. Is God judging based on these actions and is he mad at me? How could be mad at me when Jesus paid and took care of my sins already... even having said before the most hated word by most proclaimed Christians "GD" is God made at me when I am not even using his name truly in vain due to it being Yahavah? Some say Jehovah, some say Yahweh, some say Yehovah, some say Allah... Is God mad at people today: in my opinion no he is not. He simply calling and examines the heart, is it truly believing in faith, that he exist, and in Christ loving him and loving others?

Most are divided, on the issues most cant even read this paragraph, some people cant read at all... the teaching and education of people and the use of the bible if it can be backed up to some extent or another is highly important. Like I told my friends yesterday, I can not fix a persons laziness.
 

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
13,971
5,710
113
69
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Who am I that God owes me anything right?
Just a bug under His boot heel? - LOL

This is another fatal mindset issue. (poison)

What does it boil down to?
- God is omnipotent. (which is true)
- That means he can do whatever he wants. (half truth)
- We have zero value in His economy. (wait a minute)
- We can't expect anything good from Him. (say what?)

Try this on for size.
- We are of ultimate worth to God.
- He created us in His image, His likeness.
- He loved us enough to pay the ultimate price for our redemption.
- He cares for us deeply.
- He supplies all our needs. (and even many of our wants)
- He has been very good to us. (and will continue to do so)
- His track record shows us what we can expect from Him.

So much more I could say about this.

[
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
16,575
5,513
113
34
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Just a bug under His boot heel? - LOL
Why would you say this? God gives us life freely everyday when we wake up. He obviously loves not only me, but the whole world he wakes up every day. The other mentions may or may not be true, it’s all on faith in what you choose to believe. That’s just my overall two cents, however of course the conversation has been botched. It’s fine though, and you have a good rest of your day.
:wavinghand
 

Lambano

Well-Known Member
Jul 13, 2021
8,573
11,705
113
Island of Misfit Toys
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Just a bug under His boot heel? - LOL

This is another fatal mindset issue. (poison)

What does it boil down to?
- God is omnipotent. (which is true)
- That means he can do whatever he wants. (half truth)
- We have zero value in His economy. (wait a minute)
- We can't expect anything good from Him. (say what?)

Try this on for size.
- We are of ultimate worth to God.
- He created us in His image, His likeness.
- He loved us enough to pay the ultimate price for our redemption.
- He cares for us deeply.
- He supplies all our needs. (and even many of our wants)
- He has been very good to us. (and will continue to do so)
- His track record shows us what we can expect from Him.

So much more I could say about this.

[
Defining yourself by what you believe - and also by what you don't believe.

There's nothing wrong with that. The negative is as important as the positive. Would you have become a believer in Universal Restoration if you weren't first an anti-Damnationist?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: St. SteVen

Lambano

Well-Known Member
Jul 13, 2021
8,573
11,705
113
Island of Misfit Toys
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I've used this one before, but I think it's relevant to the discussion.

A well-known Christian speaker approached an atheist and started to tell him about Jesus. The atheist tried to shut that down right away with, "I'm sorry, but I don't believe in God". The evangelist replied, "Well, tell me about this god you don't believe in. Chances are I don't believe in that god either." And they sat down and had a respectful conversation about who God is, and who He isn't.
 
  • Love
Reactions: St. SteVen

Lambano

Well-Known Member
Jul 13, 2021
8,573
11,705
113
Island of Misfit Toys
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Here's some of the hot-button "Anti" topic that define conversations on this and other Christian forums:
  • Anti-Calvinist
  • Anti-Arminian
  • Anti-Catholic
  • Anti-Jewish
  • Anti-OSAS
  • Anti-Losing-your-salvation
  • Anti-Law
  • Anti-Works
  • Anti-Antinominianism
  • Anti-Tithe
  • Anti-Feminism
  • Anti-Damnationism
  • Anti-Gay
  • Anti-Bibliolatry
  • Anti-Established Church
  • Anti-Modernism
  • Anti-Fundamentalism
  • Anti-pre/post/amillenialism
  • Anti-A-Too-Loving-God
  • Anti-Anything-Episkopos-writes
Any others we should add?
 

Bob

Well-Known Member
Sep 23, 2023
528
503
93
Tucson, AZ
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Thank you for your question.

Jesus asks us to view the world positively overall. That is what the emphasis on the two great commandments says: Love God, Love Your Neighbor.

A lot of Mosaic law is phrased negatively: e.g., Commandments 6 - 10 and Leviticus 18. But instead of commanding us to “do no (intentional) harm,” why not view it as a positive commandment, e.g., be gentle and peaceful toward your neighbor (as Jesus showed us).

Also, we can rail against licentiousness and condemn same-sex behaviors, or we can stress that God blesses holy matrimony between a man and a women (and that alone), that the family is the bedrock for the best society, and that any other sexual conduct is detrimental.

Blessings.
 
  • Like
Reactions: St. SteVen

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
13,971
5,710
113
69
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This may be an opportunity for some self-examination. (for me too)
Defining yourself by what you believe - and also by what you don't believe.

There's nothing wrong with that. The negative is as important as the positive. Would you have become a believer in Universal Restoration if you weren't first an anti-Damnationist?
Yes, I certainly include myself in this self-examination.
As you stated, my "anti-Damnationist" stance led to my position of Universal Restoration.

But hopefully I have spent more energy on a positive explanation of UR than a negative explanation of hell.
Not sure if I accomplished that. Although, my approach has been more about questions than answers.

And those who disagree with me certainly receive the questions as negative energy. (unbelief)
But I think that has more to do with the Christian social culture of the institutional church.
Those who understand where I am coming from tend to appreciate the challenges. And vice versa.

[
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bob

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
13,971
5,710
113
69
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Defining yourself by what you believe - and also by what you don't believe.

There's nothing wrong with that. The negative is as important as the positive.
I agree with a balanced approach.
This topic is to address what I see as a more negative trend.
Capitalizing on what we don't believe.

[
 

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
13,971
5,710
113
69
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Here's some of the hot-button "Anti" topic that define conversations on this and other Christian forums:
  • Anti-Calvinist
  • Anti-Arminian
  • Anti-Catholic
  • Anti-Jewish
  • Anti-OSAS
  • Anti-Losing-your-salvation
  • Anti-Law
  • Anti-Works
  • Anti-Antinominianism
  • Anti-Tithe
  • Anti-Feminism
  • Anti-Damnationism
  • Anti-Gay
  • Anti-Bibliolatry
  • Anti-Established Church
  • Anti-Modernism
  • Anti-Fundamentalism
  • Anti-pre/post/amillenialism
  • Anti-A-Too-Loving-God
  • Anti-Anything-Episkopos-writes
Any others we should add?
That's a good list.
And several of the items are genuinely funny. - LOL

- Anti-hyper-grace
- Anti-NOSAS
- Anti-LGBTQ+inclusion
- Anti-women-in-leadership
- Anti-traditionalism
- Anti-Evangelicalism
- Anti-Protestantism
- Anti-Reformed
- Anti-St. SteVen

[
 

Wick Stick

Well-Known Member
Sep 21, 2023
1,447
925
113
45
Phoenix
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Reading this forum, or any Christian forum it is easy to see those defined by what they don't believe.
Scan the topic titles and you can see it. Read a thread and see respondents lining up on either side of a doctrinal issue.

This may be an opportunity for some self-examination. (for me too)

Is your faith defined by what you believe, or by what you DON'T believe?

Do you make a career out of being anti-doctrinal?

[
I'm pretty sure voting works this way. I didn't vote FOR a single person this election cycle... but I sure voted AGAINST a bunch of em!
 

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
7,013
3,848
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Just a bug under His boot heel? - LOL
Or a statement that God owes us nothing more than what he has already given us…..so what is that?
What has God given us so that we might complain about our lot in life? Did he intend us to have grief or suffering? Were we designed for disability and pain? What about death? How do we handle that?
Are any of the woes we suffer in this life, God’s doing?

Once we figure out WHY we have to endure so much, and WHY God has allowed it rather than caused it, only then will we appreciate the wisdom of God in choosing to solve the problem of the abuse of free will by allowing it’s free expression. Was free will a mistake? Some seem to think so….but was it worth putting the human race through so much grief?

Does God know what he’s doing? How many opinions do people have about that?
This is another fatal mindset issue. (poison)

What does it boil down to?
- God is omnipotent. (which is true)
- That means he can do whatever he wants. (half truth)
- We have zero value in His economy. (wait a minute)
- We can't expect anything good from Him. (say what?)
I feel that it is more about our own interpretation of things that causes the mindset that you present, (that many hold to be true.)
God is Omnipotent…creation itself shows us his power, but it also shows us his wisdom….the more we learn about the laws of nature, the more profound his wisdom becomes to us, even though it was always this profound….it is how he chooses to exert his power in his infinite wisdom that gets his will accomplished.
So what is his will for humankind?

Humans, by and large, have not come to know God as the Bible and Jesus present him…they have chosen instead to impose their own ideas about his personality and his actions…..and their errors in judgment have painted him in a poor light, so they have to reinvent him in their own image to make him and his actions more acceptable to them….as if that was necessary….?

Since God’s will is paramount, then he can do as he pleases….the fact is that humans in their short-sightedness do not see what he sees as the future result of his actions, which might not be in their lifetime. How many lifetimes have come and gone since man’s creation? And here we are still suffering the consequences of Adam’s sin 2000 years after Christs sacrifice. What is there about time itself that we have failed to consider?
So again people have to reinterpret his intentions and present different concepts in order to make his actions acceptable. When the idea of an immortal soul was adopted, that just complicated everything even further.
Where do you put souls who never die? The church was very inventive with that concept….none of it biblical however.

Who can really say that we have “zero value in his economy”? He sent his most precious son to suffer and die in our behalf, to pay for the sin we inherited from Adam. God’s justice would not allow for that situation to go on indefinitely, but for an allotted time, God permitted the devil to do his thing. But in the long range view, the end justifies the means….humans are told the long range view, but they don’t want to wait for it…so again they invent scenarios to fill in the blanks. Death cannot possibly be the end of life….so let’s invent places for the dead to go….The Bible tells us that there is only one place to go when we die….”the grave” (Sheol/hades). That’s it.
We sleep peacefully until God’s purpose is served…the devil was allowed to present his case, and to provide his witnesses (those he could deceive). The evidence for his accusations against God and humans are examined and a judgment is made. Satan is convicted, and sentenced, as are all who were persuaded to do his bidding….and he languishes in a deep prison with his cronies, until the rulership of God‘s Kingdom brings us all back to the beginning……all of the dead in Sheol are brought back to life in a resurrection during this 1000 year period, where Jesus calls them all from their graves. (John 5:28-29) Even the wicked.

All humans have then had an opportunity to learn the truth and to bring their lives into harmony with God’s will rather than their own. Each one of us will have made choices that will determine our eternal destiny, whether we know it or not. (Matt 7:21-23) Sadly, the majority will fail, but it will have been their choice. (Matt 7:13-24) Most will avoid the cramped and narrow road to life.
Try this on for size.
- We are of ultimate worth to God.
- He created us in His image, His likeness.
- He loved us enough to pay the ultimate price for our redemption.
- He cares for us deeply.
- He supplies all our needs. (and even many of our wants)
- He has been very good to us. (and will continue to do so)
- His track record shows us what we can expect from Him.
Yes to all of the above……BUT….he also tells us what he expects from us…..and what has he required of us humans since our creation that has never altered? Our OBEDIENCE. When have humans ever really embraced that command to just obey the voice of our Creator, who only has our best interests at heart.

When do we put aside our own will to do the will of the Father as Jesus did? Isn’t it human nature to be rebellious because we inherited sin and it’s propensity to do the wrong thing? Wasn’t the nation of Israel a perfect example of how not to conduct yourself as worshippers of a God that they were under obligation from birth, to obey. No other nation on earth was obligated by birth to serve the Creator, but what a legacy they left us. We learn more about God’s love and forgiveness for their errors, than we do from their just punishments. They never learned from the lessons of the past, and were therefore doomed to repeat them.

“Christianity” was a whole different kettle of fish….no one is born a Christian…..we have to choose to become one, which involves learning about Christ and his teachings, and following through on all that he taught.…not cherry picking and pretending that what little we do is “good enough”.

Jesus set the standard and it has to be followed…..or the label “Christian” is just that.…a meaningless tag that often fails to spill over into real life. It’s something many do once a week in church….they pick up their label at the door and leave it there when they go home.
So much more I could say about this.
You’re not wrong….
 

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
13,971
5,710
113
69
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
--- PARODY ---

Christian forum discussion Isms.

Christian #1: I can see what's wrong with you.
Christian #2: What is it?
Christian #1: You're a Calvinist.
Christian #2: Isn't everyone, to some degree?
Christian #1: I'm not.
Christian #2: That's because you are a Trinitarian Premillennialist
Christian #1: What about your Protestant Inerrantism?
Christian #2: Better than your Humanist Episcopalian Sacramentalism
Christian #1: Arian Unitarian Adventist Arminian
Christian #2: Liberal anti-Reformed Zionist Anti-Evangelical Secularist
Christian #1: IDK-IROOI
Christian #2: Say what?
Christian #1: I Don't Know - I Ran Out of Isms
Christian #2: LOL

[