Is Total Victory over Sin Possible?

[mailmandan]

In regard to 1 John 1:7, in 1 John 1:6, we read - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. Walking in darkness is 'descriptive' of children of the devil. Walking in the light is 'descriptive' of children of God. Only those who are saved/believers are in the light.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

Ephesians 5:8 - for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light. Children of the devil walk in darkness, not in the light. Children of God walk in the light, not in darkness. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other.

1 Thessalonians 5:4 - But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.

In 1 John 2:9, we read - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. Verse 11 - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

*Compare with 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, (compare with 1 John 1:6 - does not practice the truth) nor is he who does not love his brother. *Notice that "walks in darkness" and "hates his brother" is in connection with "children of the devil."

In regard to 1 John 1:9, notice that - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9) is in contrast to - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (1 John 1:8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:10)

Certain people misunderstand verse 9 to mean that we "must confess each and every sin that we commit as we commit them" (keep a specific inventory) as an "additional requirement" to "remain cleansed" and "if we forget a sin we are toast!" Who could keep track of and write an exhaustive list of every sin they have ever committed? Sin is not only missing the mark by what we do but also what we fail to do. (James 4:17)

Believers "confess" (homologeó Strong's #3670) speak the same/acknowledge/agree with God's perspective about their sins and have a settled recognition and ongoing acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness in contrast with saying that we have no sin or that we have not sinned. (1 John 1:8-10)

 

[Hobie]

When you are "sin-FREE", please let us all know when you have finally sinned no more.

Well, if you are not "sin-FREE" when you meet with Christ at the second coming, you will have a problem.

Matthew 7:22-23
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Luke 13:26-28
26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Who could keep track of and write an exhaustive list of every sin they have ever committed?

The bigger question is.... WHY aren't they being led by the Holy Spirit?

Those being led by the Spirit are not having a big long list of sins... there should not be any willing or knowingly doing sinful behavior at all if one has submitted themselves to the Lord being led by the Spirit having put off the old man and put on the New Man which is created in righteousness and true holiness.

And as soon as they did do something that was a sin, immediately the Holy Spirit would convict them of it and they immediately confess and forsake their sin based on 1 John 1:9 which specifically says will result in being cleanses of ALL sin

So, some of what is considered to be "sin" is actually not sinful behavior... but is referring to falling short of God's absolute perfection (making mistakes, otherwise not being literally perfect in every way) that we need to be cleansed of (there is a sin not unto death - 1 John 5:16)

We are in fact cleansed of those mistakes thru 1 John 1:7 and can be cleansed of sinful behavior thru 1 John 1:9 (and Proverbs 28:13) resulting in being clean before the Lord.

There is error in your assessment of 1 John 1:8... simply because it makes 1 John 1:7 and 1 John 1:9 to be lies

God's Word does not contradict itself because if it did then that is making the claim that some things the Lord says are lies which is impossible since God cannot an d does not lie.

And your assessment of 1 John 1:8 means one can be in sin and in right standing with God at the same time which is not true and violates Ephesians 4:24, Romans 13:14, Hebrews 9:14, Romans 6:4-6, and Colossians 3:5,6

Your assessment of 1 John 1:8 also violates Romans 8:1

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Those that walk after the leading of the Holy Spirit... are under NO condemnation whatsoever.... those walking after the flesh are back under condemnation and if they remain there they will not be allowed in to the Lord's Kingdom when they croak because they chose sin over the Lord... they desired unrighteousness over righteousness.

Hebrews 10:28.29
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

The OSAS peoples falsely think one can be sinful, willingly and knowingly walking after the pleasures of the flesh and still go to Heaven which one has to either ignore or otherwise explain away scriptures that warn otherwise... and with the help of the devil....they sure go out of their way to make up nice sounding religious stories about this to tickle the ears of those that are ignorant of the whole counsel of God.

That way there are certain portions of scripture the false OSAS teachers can never talk about and get all upset if someone starts talking about.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Yep, the OSAS peoples really hate that quote from the Lord.

In order to try and protect their precious false doctrine... that they idolize and put before what God's Word actually teaches.... they create the religious stories to deflect attention away from scripture passages that warn people that continuing in sin ends badly.

Psalm 32:1
Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

This is not applicable to those that are walking after the flesh not being led by the Spirit Who never leads anyone to do sinful behavior

 

[mailmandan]

The bigger question is.... WHY aren't they being led by the Holy Spirit?

Those who are being led by the Holy Spirit would confess their sins in contrast with saying they have no sin (present tense -1 John 1:8) or have not sinned (past tense - 1 John 1:10).

Those being led by the Spirit are not having a big long list of sins... there should not be any willing or knowingly doing sinful behavior at all if one has submitted themselves to the Lord being led by the Spirit having put off the old man and put on the New Man which is created in righteousness and true holiness.

I did not say big, long list of sins as if those who are born of God practice sin (lifestyle or bent of life) instead of practicing righteousness. (1 John 3:9,10) Throughout one's entire lifetime it would still be difficult to write an exhaustive list of every sin you ever committed, which includes missing the mark by what we do and also what we fail to do.

In regard to Ephesians 4:22-24, when we become born again, we are new creations in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17) positionally speaking. We are sanctified/set apart/made holy in standing before God positionally in Christ. 1 Corinthians 6:11 - Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 1:2 - To the church of God, which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus. That is a one-time occurrence.

Yet we also see ongoing or progressive sanctification in which the reality of that holiness becomes more and more evident in our actions, words, thoughts, attitudes, and motives. 1 Thessalonians 4:3-4, - For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor.

So, becoming washed, sanctified and justified in Christ is a one-time occurrence, yet abstaining from sexual immorality is not a one-time occurrence. The believer possesses a positional, judicial standing of righteousness in Christ and, second, an ongoing process of growth in practical, progressive holiness which becomes increasingly evident in our actions, words, thoughts, attitudes, and motives.

Having put off the old man and putting on the new man which is created in righteousness and true holiness in practice involves a process of spiritual growth. This renewal is not a one-time event but a continuous process of growth and development. It is about cultivating a mindset of spiritual growth. Believers start out as babes in Christ, and it takes time to grow to maturity, but we still will not reach absolute perfection until we receive our glorified bodies.

And as soon as they did do something that was a sin, immediately the Holy Spirit would convict them of it and they immediately confess and forsake their sin based on 1 John 1:9 which specifically says will result in being cleanses of ALL sin

Once again, 1 John 1:9 is in contrast to If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (1 John 1:8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:10)

So, some of what is considered to be "sin" is actually not sinful behavior...

Slander is a sin. (Exodus 20:16; Proverbs 10:18; 1 Peter 2:1,2) Have you confessed that sin?

That's how the OSAS peoples roll. They think all their sin is automatically forgiven before they even commit the sin which is what the OSAS people frequently bust out in to sinful behavior all the time. One should not associate with the OSAS people in their personal lives because they can suddenly turn evil at any given moment, anytime their personal demons lead them to do so.

That's not how I roll. Slander is evil.

This is how the OSAS peoples got tricked by the devil into following / teaching false OSAS doctrine which is heresy

You just judged and condemned all Christians in the OSAS camp. The Bible has a lot to say about judging others and slander.

Dan Clarkston:
Yep, the OSAS peoples really hate that quote from the Lord. In order to try and protect their precious false doctrine... that they idolize and put before what God's Word actually teaches.... they create the religious stories to deflect attention away from scripture passages that warn people that continuing in sin ends badly.

I don't hate that quote from the Lord and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus clearly stated, "I never knew you" and not I once knew you but don't know you anymore. This means they were never saved and these many people in Matthew 7:22 trusted in their works for salvation instead of in Jesus Christ alone. Their hearts were not right with God, so their "attempted external obedience" (apart from the righteousness of God which is by faith and the blood of Christ - Romans 3:24-28; Philippians 3:9) was still stained with sin. Hence, workers of iniquity/practice lawlessness. They failed to do the will of the Father unto salvation by believing in Jesus Christ for salvation. (Matthew 7:21; John 6:40)

 

[mailmandan]

The OSAS peoples reject Jesus' sayings... and they pervert what the Lord Jesus said thru the Apostle Paul... to their own destruction. Sad.

What is sad is your continuous judging, condemning and slanderous remarks toward Christians in the OSAS camp. You continue to suffer from a severe case of anti-OSAS derangement syndrome. That is sad.

but is referring to falling short of God's absolute perfection (making mistakes, otherwise not being literally perfect in every way) that we need to be cleansed of (there is a sin not unto death - 1 John 5:16)

In regard to 1 John 5:16, do you believe that John is referring to physical death (1 Corinthians 11:29-32) or spiritual death? (Revelation 21:8). Some folks jump to the conclusion that John is talking about a believer committing a certain sin that leads them to spiritual death, but that does not seem to fit the context. 1 John 5:16 - If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death. 18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.

We are in fact cleansed of those mistakes thru 1 John 1:7 and can be cleansed of sinful behavior thru 1 John 1:9 (and Proverbs 28:13) resulting in being clean before the Lord.

This is not about sinless perfection and we are cleansed of our sins if we confess our sins in contrast to if we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (1 John 1:8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:10) Context is key.

There is error in your assessment of 1 John 1:8... simply because it makes 1 John 1:7 and 1 John 1:9 to be lies

The error is in your inventory confession in order to remain cleansed/maintain salvation by works. My assessment of 1 John 1:9 is in contrast with 1 John 1:8 and 1 John 1:10.

God's Word does not contradict itself because if it did then that is making the claim that some things the Lord says are lies which is impossible since God cannot and does not lie.

True. That is why we need to properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching our conclusion on doctrine.

And your assessment of 1 John 1:8 means one can be in sin and in right standing with God at the same time which is not true and violates Ephesians 4:24, Romans 13:14, Hebrews 9:14, Romans 6:4-6, and Colossians 3:5,6

Your assessment of 1 John 1:8 also violates Romans 8:1

Not at all. See Romans 8:8 - So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Not walking after the flesh but after the Spirit is 'descriptive' of children of God.

Those that walk after the leading of the Holy Spirit... are under NO condemnation whatsoever.... those walking after the flesh are back under condemnation and if they remain there they will not be allowed in to the Lord's Kingdom when they croak because they chose sin over the Lord... they desired unrighteousness over righteousness.

Show me where Paul says "back under" condemnation. Walking after the flesh is 'descriptive' of unbelievers/children of the devil.

Hebrews 10:28.29
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

If the word 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 is used to describe saved people who lost their salvation as eternal IN-securists teach, then we have a contradiction because the writer of Hebrews in verse 10 said "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14) I've heard eternal IN-securists try to get around the truth here by either saying forever doesn't really mean forever or "once for all and for all time" ONLY applies to "the offering of the body of Jesus Christ," but not to the person who is sanctified. Yet in Hebrews 10:10, we clearly read ..We have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. In Hebrews 10:14, we read - For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. To go from sanctified back to un-sanctified would be in contradiction here.

The OSAS peoples falsely think one can be sinful, willingly and knowingly walking after the pleasures of the flesh and still go to Heaven which one has to either ignore or otherwise explain away scriptures that warn otherwise... and with the help of the devil....they sure go out of their way to make up nice sounding religious stories about this to tickle the ears of those that are ignorant of the whole counsel of God.

More childish false accusations and slander on your part. In regard to Hebrews 10:26, To "sin willfully" carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action, a matter of practice. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a ongoing, willful, habitual action. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9). *Hermeneutics.

That way there are certain portions of scripture the false OSAS teachers can never talk about and get all upset if someone starts talking about. View attachment 59612

Discussing scripture does not upset me but I don't appreciate false teachers, agitators and slanderers.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Slander is evil.

Then you should quit slandering the Lord by teaching the false doctrines of OSAS

Discussing scripture does not upset me but I don't appreciate false teachers, agitators and slanderers.

As such... you don't appreciate yourself as you slander God's Word.

Hang in their bub.... you'll learn the error of your ways eventually.

 

[mailmandan]

Then you should quit slandering the Lord by teaching the false doctrines of OSAS View attachment 59723

View attachment 59722


As such... you don't appreciate yourself as you slander God's Word.

Hang in their bub.... you'll learn the error of your ways eventually.

Like I said before. You suffer from a severe case of anti-OSAS derangement syndrome, and you also need to grow up, bub.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

not the righteous, who are born of God (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9).

Which is why you people go around so proudly telling everyone you are "sinners", right?


2 Peter 2:10-17
Chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

These are the people teaching others that Christians cannot stop sinning and that one will go to Heaven anyway even if they continue to live in sin.... such as gnarly Charlie Stanley who was considered to be one of the foremost authority of the false "eternal security" movement.

He actually taught that those living in sin will still go to Heaven, and even told one lady who called in asking about her son who turn gay that he was still going to Heaven since he had had a moment of faith when he was younger. (I got the quotes from his book and videos and have posted them numerous times.)

Yeah, the OSAS peoples really butcher the Word of God for which they have no defense for other than to start calling people names when they get called out for their false OSAS doctrine! Pathetic!

 

[mailmandan]

Which is why you people go around so proudly telling everyone you are "sinners", right?
View attachment 59725

2 Peter 2:10-17
Chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

These are the people teaching others that Christians cannot stop sinning and that one will go to Heaven anyway even if they continue to live in sin.... such as gnarly Charlie Stanley who was considered to be one of the foremost authority of the false "eternal security" movement.

He actually taught that those living in sin will still go to Heaven, and even told one lady who called in asking about her son who turn gay that he was still going to Heaven since he had had a moment of faith when he was younger. (I got the quotes from his book and videos and have posted them numerous times.)

Yeah, the OSAS peoples really butcher the Word of God for which they have no defense for other than to start calling people names when they get called out for their false OSAS doctrine! Pathetic!
View attachment 59726

I have my defense from Scripture and I see that you have no rebuttal for what I shared with you in post #46. All you have is cherry picked pet verses accompanied by your eisegesis, along with slander, unqualified judgment calls, childish emojis and gifs. You are also quite the agitator. I know your kind all too well.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

I have my defense from Scripture

You just... "think" you do

I used to attend a church back in the day that taught eternal security.... the place was full of people doing all kinds of sinful stuff and they would quote what the pastors always said... "it's not possible for one to lose their salvation"... and now we see this happening all over the place among those claiming to be Christians

Many of these folks weren't like that at all till the pastors embraced false teachers such as Joseph Prince, Charles Stanley, Andrew Wommack, etc, etc which is when they turned dark.

So called OSAS doctrine teaches people that they are still saved even if they live in sin which is not what God's Word actually teaches... although the OSAS peoples wouldn't know that since they are blinded by their false doctrine

OSAS teachers are ungodly men turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness - Jude 1:4

I know your kind all too well.

You may be able to gaslight others, but it does not work on me.

I know what spirit the OSAS peoples are of... spirits from darkness.

 

[mailmandan]

You just... "think" you do View attachment 59732

I used to attend a church back in the day that taught eternal security.... the place was full of people doing all kinds of sinful stuff and they would quote what the pastors always said... "it's not possible for one to lose their salvation"... and now we see this happening all over the place among those claiming to be Christians

Many of these folks weren't like that at all till the pastors embraced false teachers such as Joseph Prince, Charles Stanley, Andrew Wommack, etc, etc which is when they turned dark.

So called OSAS doctrine teaches people that they are still saved even if they live in sin which is not what God's Word actually teaches... although the OSAS peoples wouldn't know that since they are blinded by their false doctrine

OSAS teachers are ungodly men turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness - Jude 1:4

You may be able to gaslight others, but it does not work on me.

I know what spirit the OSAS peoples are of... spirits from darkness.

Claiming to be Christians? There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers.

One bad experience in one church has led you to judge and condemn ALL Christians in the OSAS camp? Is that really fair? I grew up in a church that taught NOSAS along with salvation by works, but would that be fair if I judged ALL Christians in the NOSAS camp as children of the devil who promote salvation by works?

BTW: In regard to Jude 1:4, Jude is exhorting believers to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints (vs. 3) because certain ungodly men have crept in unnoticed. Jude further describes these ungodly men as ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit (vs. 19)

In CONTRAST to those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and PRESERVED in Jesus Christ (vs. 1). These are not Christians in Jude 1:4. So much for your eisegesis. Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are PRESERVED FOREVER, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

One bad experience in one church has led you to judge and condemn ALL Christians in the OSAS camp?

Actually after that (20+ years ago) I started studying the OSAS doctrine comparing it to scripture and found that in order to, hold one's position that OSAS is true one must ignore some scriptures, twist others scriptures, and explain away other scriptures.

The early church did not teach OSAS and it was later once false teachers started creeping in (which was foretold by the Lord thru Paul)... that OSAS doctrine started coming in.

would that be fair if I judged ALL Christians in the NOSAS camp as children of the devil who promote salvation by works?

That's exactly what the OSAS peoples do... if someone says they do not believe in the false OSAS doctrine they immediately claim "oh, you're works salvation trying to earn your way to Heaven thru good works"

Which is nothing more than a deflection they have to go to since their false OSAS doctrine cannot actually be supported by scripture without ignoring some scriptures, twisting others scriptures, and explaining away still other scriptures.

In regard to Jude 1:4, Jude is exhorting believers to contend earnestly for the faith

Something the OSAS are not doing.... they are contending for their own false doctrine, not what God's Word actually teaches.

the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are PRESERVED FOREVER, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

But, if any one of the saints turn away from the Lord.... they are toast if they do not continue in His goodness.

Romans 11:22
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

See, now here is where your false OSAS doctrine kicks in and you claim that one is still saved and will still go to Heaven even if they do not continue in His goodness and/or you will claim they were never born again in the first place both of which aren't true and violates what the Lord is saying in Romans 11

But, the religious spirits that have captured your mind has convinced you that any and all that do not agree with your OSAS doctrine are wrong because after all you believe you are superior in knowledge and intellect above these people and puffed up in pride just like the pharisees and sadducees

Some folks just gotta learn the hard way... making the claim to people that one can never lose their salvation leads many to believe they can continue in their sin because this message blinds people from the Truth of God's Word and tickles their ears.

The OSAS peoples should be quite happy because the majority of churches now are teaching some form of the false OSAS doctrine... millions have been led astray by this false doctrine which is some of satan's finest deception!

 

[mailmandan]

Actually after that (20+ years ago) I started studying the OSAS doctrine comparing it to scripture and found that in order to, hold one's position that OSAS is true one must ignore some scriptures, twist others scriptures, and explain away other scriptures.

The early church did not teach OSAS and it was later once false teachers started creeping in (which was foretold by the Lord thru Paul)... that OSAS doctrine started coming in.

That's exactly what the OSAS peoples do... if someone says they do not believe in the false OSAS doctrine they immediately claim "oh, you're works salvation trying to earn your way to Heaven thru good works"

Which is nothing more than a deflection they have to go to since their false OSAS doctrine cannot actually be supported by scripture without ignoring some scriptures, twisting others scriptures, and explaining away still other scriptures.

Something the OSAS are not doing.... they are contending for their own false doctrine, not what God's Word actually teaches.

But, if any one of the saints turn away from the Lord.... they are toast if they do not continue in His goodness.

Romans 11:22
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

See, now here is where your false OSAS doctrine kicks in and you claim that one is still saved and will still go to Heaven even if they do not continue in His goodness and/or you will claim they were never born again in the first place both of which aren't true and violates what the Lord is saying in Romans 11

But, the religious spirits that have captured your mind has convinced you that any and all that do not agree with your OSAS doctrine are wrong because after all you believe you are superior in knowledge and intellect above these people and puffed up in pride just like the pharisees and sadducees

Some folks just gotta learn the hard way... making the claim to people that one can never lose their salvation leads many to believe they can continue in their sin because this message blinds people from the Truth of God's Word and tickles their ears.

The OSAS peoples should be quite happy because the majority of churches now are teaching some form of the false OSAS doctrine... millions have been led astray by this false doctrine which is some of satan's finest deception!

Ignoring some scriptures, twisting other scriptures, and explaining away other scriptures is a two way street.

Now in many cases (but not all) those who promote NOSAS teach that salvation is obtained by works and/or maintained by works. I grew up in the Roman Catholic church and they taught both. They also held to the same argument you made about the early church. I don't put a lot of stock in the fallible writings of the early church fathers as Roman Catholics do. Scripture is the ultimate authority.

I have also found that ALL false religions and cults that promote salvation by works strongly oppose OSAS which is a major red flag for me. Even so I still don't judge and condemn everyone in the NOSAS camp as teaching that and I also don't suffer from a severe case of anti-NOSAS derangement syndrome. Obsession like that could lead to mental illness.

In regard to Romans 11, I already covered this with you before. Did you even bother to read what I wrote? You need to interpret Romans 11 in context as I did and not simply isolate only the part of the chapter that you want to hear. See post #170 from the link below.

THE TWO GOSPEL HERESY

The word "gospel" means "good news." Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom to Israel. John the Baptist also preached the gospel of the kingdom, which was, "..Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matthew 3:2) Jesus Christ sent the twelve to preach only to Israel. Matthew 10:5 -...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[ProDeo]

Either you are not aware of 1 John 1:9 or choose to believe it's a lie.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness.
What part of ALL exactly where you having a hard time understanding??? View attachment 59576

I always understood the ALL you mention that our unaware sins are forgiven also, the moment we confess our sins.

In the sense what Jesus said - Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. [John 15:3]

But I admit I never got much of an applause

 

[Dan Clarkston]

I always understood the ALL you mention that our unaware sins are forgiven also, the moment we confess our sins.

Yes, when one initially gets born again... all sins past are forgiven

Romans 3:25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Going forward through.... it's a different story as we must confess and forsake our sin to be forgiven and cleansed (1 John 1:9 and Proverbs 28:13)

This is because of what the Lord says in Galatians

Galatians 6:7.8
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Now some (the OSAS false doctrine peoples) will claim all future sins are already forgiven when we get born again which violates Romans 3:25, and Galatians 6:7.8 and that claim is actually mocking God!

It's mocking God because they are claiming when one sows to the flesh (commits sin) they do not reap corruption which is false doctrine to make that claim as they mock God.

Others claim "who could remember all the sins one does to be able to confess all of them?".... which is odd because they have SO many sins they can't remember them all??? Anybody seeing a problem with that coming from a Christian???

If they had the Holy Spirit.... they would be being convicted by the Holy Spirit when they sin and they would confess / forsake it immediately as doing sinful behavior should be a very rare thing in the life of a Christian... unless of course their conscience has been seared (see 1 Timothy 4:2) in which case they have backsliden away from the Lord and are lost once again.

But, the Lord is merciful.... and He has graciously put 1 John 1:9 and Proverbs 28:13 in His Word so one can be cleansed and if one really does not remember all their sins they simply need to humble themselves before the Lord and ask the Lord to forgive them of ALL of their sins and stop walking after the flesh (stop being a sinner!), and remove from their lives that provide opportunity for them to sin (see Romans 13:14)

Once cleansed by the Blood of the Lamb we should be led by the Spirit as to not be fulfilling the lusts of the flesh (Galatians 5:16) and we should walk in having no more conscience of sin (Hebrews 10:18-26).... as in stop willingly and knowingly doing sinful behavior!

So, when one confesses and forsakes their sin.... according to 1 John 1:9 they are cleansed of ALL sin meaning.... for the moment they are actually sin free. Some claim this is not true because they think 1 John 1:9 is a lie.

Problem is very few remain sin free due to willingly or knowingly doing something that know is wrong which is sinful (see James 4:17), or they fall short of God's absolute perfection thru making mistakes... which is not things we would normally cal sinful but are less than perfection none the less (things like spilling your tea at dinner time, dropping something on the floor, or forgetting to do something)

Things such as these which are honest mistakes (things we did not intend to do) we are automatically cleansed of is we walk in the light as He is in the light....

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

But 1 John 1:7 does not automatically cleanse us when doing things are are actual sinful behavior because of James 4:17 and because when one is doing sinful behavior they are NOT walking in the light as the Lord is in the which is being led by the Holy Spirit based on the written Word of God.

Sadly.... the OSAS peoples and the false grace peoples don't get any of this stuff.... they may tell people "no, we don't recommend that anybody does sinful stuff".... but what they do say is that one is still saved and in right standing with the Lord even when they are living in sin doing sinful behavior.... which is mocking God in their ignorance of what the New Testament teaches

This is why so many people want to follow the false OSAS teachers and the false grace teachers because they have itching ears and they want their ears tickled as deep down they know they should not be doing sinful behavior... but they want to continue in their sin but feel good about it as thought they are still saved in right standing with the Lord as they continue in their sin

In other words they want the false "security in sin fake gospel" all because they don't want to stop sinning and because they have been falsely taught that they are born sinners and that's what sinners do is... sin, and nobody can stop sinning cause we're all still sinners... which are lies of the devil!

 

[mailmandan]

Romans 3:25 (AMP) - whom God displayed publicly [before the eyes of the world] as a [life-giving] sacrifice of atonement and reconciliation (propitiation) by His blood [to be received] through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness [which demands punishment for sin], because in His forbearance [His deliberate restraint] He passed over the sins previously committed [before Jesus’ crucifixion].

This sheds some light on what is meant by PAST sins. It does not mean that ONLY our past sins are forgiven by Jesus.

Acts 13:39 - and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Further translations of Romans 3:25 read:

ESV - whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.

HCSB - God presented Him as a propitiation through faith in His blood, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His restraint God passed over the sins previously committed.

NASB - whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed.

NIV - God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished.

In regard to Galatians 6:7-8, the one who is continuously (Greek present tense) sowing to his own corrupt flesh, which is opposed to God and unrenewed by the Holy Spirit shall of the flesh reap corruption. Our life here is sowing of one kind or another. But he who sows to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap everlasting life/descriptive of believers.

Those who suffer from a severe case of anti-OSAS derangement syndrome would rather resort to personal attacks and slander than reason through the scriptures.

In regard to 1 John 1:7 and 1 John 1:9 see post #41. Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault of defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

 

[ProDeo]

There are enough passages that teach OSAS, there are also passages that warn to endure till the end, King Salomo as an example.

 

[mailmandan]

Yep, the OSAS peoples really hate that quote from the Lord.

In order to try and protect their precious false doctrine... that they idolize and put before what God's Word actually teaches.... they create the religious stories to deflect attention away from scripture passages that warn people that continuing in sin ends badly.

Psalm 32:1
Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

This is not applicable to those that are walking after the flesh not being led by the Spirit Who never leads anyone to do sinful behavior

I don't follow or have anything to do with the catholic cult... or the SDA cult either for that matter. Both of these religious organizations are vehicles for false doctrine.

Hobie is a member of the SDA cult/religious organization for false doctrine (your words) yet you are still willing to join hands with him and sing kumbaya over your agreement with him that OSAS is a false doctrine?

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Hobie is a member of the SDA cult/religious organization for false doctrine (your words) yet you are still willing to join hands with him and sing kumbaya over your agreement with him that OSAS is a false doctrine?

I'm not holding hands with anybody, singing kumbaya, or in
agreement with anybody's cult beliefs including the OSAS cult