Is there a higher walk for believers in Christ?

[Ritajanice]

Did you know He existed before He was conceived and was born?

Amen!!

 

[Peterlag]

Did you know He existed before He was conceived and was born?

Here's some data on the spirit because I like you...

One of the ways we know that “pneuma hagion” often refers to the gift of God’s nature is that it “belongs” to God, who calls it “my” spirit. The spirit is called “God’s” spirit in many verses and King David understood the holy spirit belonged to God because he wrote “…do not take your holy spirit from me.” The Bible shows us that “the holy spirit” is under God’s authority and direction, which makes sense when we understand it's the gift of His nature that He gives to believers. The words “Messiah” in Hebrew (mashiyach מָשִׁיחַ) and “Christ” in Greek (christos Χριστός) both mean “anointed one.” Thus, the early Christians would have known him as “Jesus the anointed one.” God “anointed” Jesus Christ with the holy spirit and that's why Jesus was said to have been “anointed” even though people knew he had never been formally anointed with oil (Acts 4:27; 10:38).

We have no evidence in the Bible that “the Holy Spirit” was ever used as a name because no one ever used it in a direct address. Many people spoke or prayed directly to God, starting out by saying “O Yahweh” (translated as “O LORD” in almost all English versions). Furthermore, the name “Jesus” is a Greek form of the name “Joshua” (in fact, the King James Version confuses “Joshua” and “Jesus” in Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8) and many people spoke “to Jesus” in the Bible. But no one in the Bible ever used “the Holy Spirit” in a direct address because there's simply no actual name for any “Person” known as “the Holy Spirit” anywhere in the Bible.

The “holy spirit” God gave in the Old Testament was God’s nature, but after the Day of Pentecost He gave His nature in a new and fuller way than He had ever given it before and this is what was foretold in the Old Testament (Ezekiel 11:19; 36:26). It was because this new spirit was promised in the Old Testament that the New Testament calls it “the promised holy spirit” Ephesians 1:13; Acts 2:33; Galatians 3:14). We have the “firstfruits” of the spirit (Romans 8:23) because Christians are the first to receive this new spirit and that's why we have the guarantee that we will be in the coming Messianic Kingdom.

The gift of the holy spirit that Christians have is a gift and thus an “it.” Jesus told the apostles that the spirit would be “in” them (John 14:17)—which is what happened on the Day of Pentecost when the holy spirit went from being with or “upon” people in the Old Testament and Gospels to being born “in” people on and after the Day of Pentecost. The spirit is sent by the Father (John 14:16-17) and Jesus (John 16:7). It does not speak on its own, but it speaks only what it hears (John 16:13). Thus, the gift of the holy spirit is directed by God and Jesus, which is what we would expect since it's God’s nature born in us. The gift of the holy spirit is the nature of God, and when it's born in us it becomes part of our very nature (2 Peter 1:4).

God does not change, but the gift of God’s holy spirit that believers have today is different from the spirit that God gave in the Old Testament, and so the gift of God’s spirit has changed. The simple and straightforward reading of the Scripture is that there is one God, who is sometimes referred to as “the Holy Spirit” and one Lord who is the man Jesus Christ, and one gift of the holy spirit that is the nature of God that He gives to people.

 

[Episkopos]

Here's some data on the spirit because I like you...

One of the ways we know that “pneuma hagion” often refers to the gift of God’s nature is that it “belongs” to God, who calls it “my” spirit. The spirit is called “God’s” spirit in many verses and King David understood the holy spirit belonged to God because he wrote “…do not take your holy spirit from me.” The Bible shows us that “the holy spirit” is under God’s authority and direction, which makes sense when we understand it's the gift of His nature that He gives to believers. The words “Messiah” in Hebrew (mashiyach מָשִׁיחַ) and “Christ” in Greek (christos Χριστός) both mean “anointed one.” Thus, the early Christians would have known him as “Jesus the anointed one.” God “anointed” Jesus Christ with the holy spirit and that's why Jesus was said to have been “anointed” even though people knew he had never been formally anointed with oil (Acts 4:27; 10:38).

We have no evidence in the Bible that “the Holy Spirit” was ever used as a name because no one ever used it in a direct address. Many people spoke or prayed directly to God, starting out by saying “O Yahweh” (translated as “O LORD” in almost all English versions). Furthermore, the name “Jesus” is a Greek form of the name “Joshua” (in fact, the King James Version confuses “Joshua” and “Jesus” in Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8) and many people spoke “to Jesus” in the Bible. But no one in the Bible ever used “the Holy Spirit” in a direct address because there's simply no actual name for any “Person” known as “the Holy Spirit” anywhere in the Bible.

The “holy spirit” God gave in the Old Testament was God’s nature, but after the Day of Pentecost He gave His nature in a new and fuller way than He had ever given it before and this is what was foretold in the Old Testament (Ezekiel 11:19; 36:26). It was because this new spirit was promised in the Old Testament that the New Testament calls it “the promised holy spirit” Ephesians 1:13; Acts 2:33; Galatians 3:14). We have the “firstfruits” of the spirit (Romans 8:23) because Christians are the first to receive this new spirit and that's why we have the guarantee that we will be in the coming Messianic Kingdom.

The gift of the holy spirit that Christians have is a gift and thus an “it.” Jesus told the apostles that the spirit would be “in” them (John 14:17)—which is what happened on the Day of Pentecost when the holy spirit went from being with or “upon” people in the Old Testament and Gospels to being born “in” people on and after the Day of Pentecost. The spirit is sent by the Father (John 14:16-17) and Jesus (John 16:7). It does not speak on its own, but it speaks only what it hears (John 16:13). Thus, the gift of the holy spirit is directed by God and Jesus, which is what we would expect since it's God’s nature born in us. The gift of the holy spirit is the nature of God, and when it's born in us it becomes part of our very nature (2 Peter 1:4).

God does not change, but the gift of God’s holy spirit that believers have today is different from the spirit that God gave in the Old Testament, and so the gift of God’s spirit has changed. The simple and straightforward reading of the Scripture is that there is one God, who is sometimes referred to as “the Holy Spirit” and one Lord who is the man Jesus Christ, and one gift of the holy spirit that is the nature of God that He gives to people.

While all this is true...The fulness of God is not experienced at regeneration. Paul calls the initial gift of grace the "earnest" of the Spirit. It is an introduction into the kingdom realm...a touch from above. To get the full measure of grace...that is the power from heaven to walk as Jesus walked must be sought for and "bought" with a "selling all" in order to "win Christ." The fact that very few will do this is described by Jesus as "the way is narrow and few will find it. Few in fact have the faith required to give themselves fully to God. It takes ALL of us to get ALL of God.

Even at the level of an initial grace, we desire to be with God. As attested in Romans 7...the desire is not enough. Sin in ingrained in the lower walk in the power of the flesh. Only as we enter into the kingdom realm are we given the power to walk beyond the law of sin and death. The power of life in Christ causes us to walk as Jesus walked. Like the power of flight is stronger than gravity. As we abide in Christ we overcome sin.

 

[ChristisGod]

Here's some data on the spirit because I like you...

One of the ways we know that “pneuma hagion” often refers to the gift of God’s nature is that it “belongs” to God, who calls it “my” spirit. The spirit is called “God’s” spirit in many verses and King David understood the holy spirit belonged to God because he wrote “…do not take your holy spirit from me.” The Bible shows us that “the holy spirit” is under God’s authority and direction, which makes sense when we understand it's the gift of His nature that He gives to believers. The words “Messiah” in Hebrew (mashiyach מָשִׁיחַ) and “Christ” in Greek (christos Χριστός) both mean “anointed one.” Thus, the early Christians would have known him as “Jesus the anointed one.” God “anointed” Jesus Christ with the holy spirit and that's why Jesus was said to have been “anointed” even though people knew he had never been formally anointed with oil (Acts 4:27; 10:38).

We have no evidence in the Bible that “the Holy Spirit” was ever used as a name because no one ever used it in a direct address. Many people spoke or prayed directly to God, starting out by saying “O Yahweh” (translated as “O LORD” in almost all English versions). Furthermore, the name “Jesus” is a Greek form of the name “Joshua” (in fact, the King James Version confuses “Joshua” and “Jesus” in Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8) and many people spoke “to Jesus” in the Bible. But no one in the Bible ever used “the Holy Spirit” in a direct address because there's simply no actual name for any “Person” known as “the Holy Spirit” anywhere in the Bible.

The “holy spirit” God gave in the Old Testament was God’s nature, but after the Day of Pentecost He gave His nature in a new and fuller way than He had ever given it before and this is what was foretold in the Old Testament (Ezekiel 11:19; 36:26). It was because this new spirit was promised in the Old Testament that the New Testament calls it “the promised holy spirit” Ephesians 1:13; Acts 2:33; Galatians 3:14). We have the “firstfruits” of the spirit (Romans 8:23) because Christians are the first to receive this new spirit and that's why we have the guarantee that we will be in the coming Messianic Kingdom.

The gift of the holy spirit that Christians have is a gift and thus an “it.” Jesus told the apostles that the spirit would be “in” them (John 14:17)—which is what happened on the Day of Pentecost when the holy spirit went from being with or “upon” people in the Old Testament and Gospels to being born “in” people on and after the Day of Pentecost. The spirit is sent by the Father (John 14:16-17) and Jesus (John 16:7). It does not speak on its own, but it speaks only what it hears (John 16:13). Thus, the gift of the holy spirit is directed by God and Jesus, which is what we would expect since it's God’s nature born in us. The gift of the holy spirit is the nature of God, and when it's born in us it becomes part of our very nature (2 Peter 1:4).

God does not change, but the gift of God’s holy spirit that believers have today is different from the spirit that God gave in the Old Testament, and so the gift of God’s spirit has changed. The simple and straightforward reading of the Scripture is that there is one God, who is sometimes referred to as “the Holy Spirit” and one Lord who is the man Jesus Christ, and one gift of the holy spirit that is the nature of God that He gives to people.

More unbiblical nonsense. Jesus who is the authority refers to the Holy Spirit as a Person distinct from both Himself and the Father. If the Holy Spirit is not a Person then neither is the Father who is Spirit a person. That’s your dilemma

 

[Peterlag]

More unbiblical nonsense. Jesus who is the authority refers to the Holy Spirit as a Person distinct from both Himself and the Father. If the Holy Spirit is not a Person then neither is the Father who is Spirit a person. That’s your dilemma

There are many descriptions, titles, and names for God in the Bible and I would like to add God’s proper name is “Yahweh” which occurs more than 6,000 times in the Hebrew Old Testament and is generally translated as “LORD.” But God is also referred to as Elohim, Adonai, El Shaddai, the Ancient of Days, the Holy One of Israel, Father, Shield, and by many more designations. Furthermore, God is holy (Leviticus 11:44), which is why He was called “the Holy One” (the Hebrew text uses the singular adjective “holy” to designate “the Holy One." He is also spirit (John 4:24). It makes perfect sense since God is holy and God is spirit that “Holy” and “Spirit” are sometimes combined and used as one of the many designations for God. Thus, the Hebrew or Greek words for the "HOLY SPIRIT" should be brought into English as the "Holy Spirit” when the subject of a verse is God.

None of the dozens of descriptions, titles, or names of God are believed to be a separate, co-equal “Person” in a triune God except for the “HOLY SPIRIT” and there is no solid biblical reason to make the "Holy Spirit” into a separate “Person.” In other contexts the “HOLY SPIRIT” refers to the gift of God’s nature that He placed on people and the new birth to the Christian, and in those contexts it should be translated as the “holy spirit." God placed a form of His nature which is “holy spirit” upon people when He wanted to spiritually empower them because our natural fleshly human bodies do not have spirit power of their own. This holy spirit nature of God was a gift from God to humankind and we see this in the case of Acts 2:38 when the spirit is specifically called a "gift" when given to the Christian.

 

[Episkopos]

There are many descriptions, titles, and names for God in the Bible and I would like to add God’s proper name is “Yahweh” which occurs more than 6,000 times in the Hebrew Old Testament and is generally translated as “LORD.” But God is also referred to as Elohim, Adonai, El Shaddai, the Ancient of Days, the Holy One of Israel, Father, Shield, and by many more designations. Furthermore, God is holy (Leviticus 11:44), which is why He was called “the Holy One” (the Hebrew text uses the singular adjective “holy” to designate “the Holy One." He is also spirit (John 4:24). It makes perfect sense since God is holy and God is spirit that “Holy” and “Spirit” are sometimes combined and used as one of the many designations for God. Thus, the Hebrew or Greek words for the "HOLY SPIRIT" should be brought into English as the "Holy Spirit” when the subject of a verse is God.

None of the dozens of descriptions, titles, or names of God are believed to be a separate, co-equal “Person” in a triune God except for the “HOLY SPIRIT” and there is no solid biblical reason to make the "Holy Spirit” into a separate “Person.” In other contexts the “HOLY SPIRIT” refers to the gift of God’s nature that He placed on people and the new birth to the Christian, and in those contexts it should be translated as the “holy spirit." God placed a form of His nature which is “holy spirit” upon people when He wanted to spiritually empower them because our natural fleshly human bodies do not have spirit power of their own. This holy spirit nature of God was a gift from God to humankind and we see this in the case of Acts 2:38 when the spirit is specifically called a "gift" when given to the Christian.

There are two Yahwehs. God is One Spirit in two Persons. The Father is "Elyon" The Most High.

Jesus Yahweh spoke face to face with Moses...whereas the Father could only be glimpsed from behind. There are SOO many of these dualities. Even the word Elohim means DOUBLE GOD. (The way Ephraim means double fruit or Machanayim means two camps)

Even the shema speaks of two being ONE... echad. A man and his wife become One flesh (levasar echad) And the two sticks in Ezekiel become one stick (ets echad) So then ECHAD always means two into one.

Hear O Israel the Lord (Yahweh) your God AND the Lord (Yahweh) are One. (One Spirit)

 

[Lizbeth]

While all this is true...The fulness of God is not experienced at regeneration. Paul calls the initial gift of grace the "earnest" of the Spirit. It is an introduction into the kingdom realm...a touch from above. To get the full measure of grace...that is the power from heaven to walk as Jesus walked must be sought for and "bought" with a "selling all" in order to "win Christ." The fact that very few will do this is described by Jesus as "the way is narrow and few will find it. Few in fact have the faith required to give themselves fully to God. It takes ALL of us to get ALL of God.

Even at the level of an initial grace, we desire to be with God. As attested in Romans 7...the desire is not enough. Sin in ingrained in the lower walk in the power of the flesh. Only as we enter into the kingdom realm are we given the power to walk beyond the law of sin and death. The power of life in Christ causes us to walk as Jesus walked. Like the power of flight is stronger than gravity. As we abide in Christ we overcome sin.

Bible says we ARE complete in Him. How could He give us only a small piece of HIMSELF really? Which piece? We either have Him, His Spirit, or we don't. That's why the "balance owing" springs from the "earnest". We already have it....but now we need to apprehend ie, manifest, more of what He has planted in us....ie, grow it, learn to walk in it and increase, and yes, pay the price to do so. This must be spiritually discerned, it is not really logical and literal.

 

[marks]

Living according to God's intent is righteousness, not holiness. Holiness is being present with the Lord where He is. Righteousness is based on behaviour/obedience to God's laws in the moment. Holiness is based on the presence of God in a moment by moment walk in an eternal life.

Holiness is separation, that is, separated to God's intent for you. And yes, this will be a moment by moment walk in eternal life.

Living according to God's intent isn't righteousness itself, as such, rather, the fruit of holiness is righteousness. As you walk separated to God (holiness) you do the things He wants (righteousness).

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

Bible says we ARE complete in Him. How could He give us only a small piece of HIMSELF really? Which piece? We either have Him, His Spirit, or we don't. That's why the "balance owing" springs from the "earnest". We already have it....but now we need to apprehend ie, manifest, more of what He has planted in us....ie, grow it, learn to walk in it and increase, and yes, pay the price to do so. This must be spiritually discerned, it is not really logical and literal.

You have to understand ...we are complete IN Him. In Him is no sin. To be filled with the fulness of God only happens when we are translated into the kingdom walk in the Spirit.

Having begun in the Spirit we are to seek the Lord for the full measure of grace...grace on grace. The full lump.

 

[Episkopos]

Holiness is separation, that is, separated to God's intent for you. And yes, this will be a moment by moment walk in eternal life.

Living according to God's intent isn't righteousness itself, as such, rather, the fruit of holiness is righteousness. As you walk separated to God (holiness) you do the things He wants (righteousness).

Much love!

That's not NT holiness. The idea of being separate is about temple holiness...whereby utensils can be holy. But NT holiness or TRUE holiness is about abiding in Christ to walk as He walked. Talk about separate. A much deeper separation...and one that a utensil cannot experience.

 

[marks]

That's not NT holiness. The idea of separate is about temple holiness...whereby utensils can be holy. But NT holiness or TRUE holiness is about abiding in Christ to walk as He walked.

Yes, holiness is in Christ,

1 Corinthians 1:30-31
(30) But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
(31) That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

More unbiblical nonsense. Jesus who is the authority refers to the Holy Spirit as a Person distinct from both Himself and the Father. If the Holy Spirit is not a Person then neither is the Father who is Spirit a person. That’s your dilemma

Your dilemma is that you are counting too many Spirits. The Spirit of God the Spirit of Christ...the Holy Spirit and the Persons of the Father and the Son. Counting them all up we get 5 not 3. Now if the Spirit of God IS part of the Father, and the Spirit of Christ is the same Spirit....then you get One Spirit in TWO Persons...Father and Son.

God is Spirit.


There is only One Spirit of God.

 

[marks]

You said that believers are not holy, unless we are walking in what you're calling a higher walk. I'm refuting that by pointing out that scripture says if the first fruits are holy the whole lump is holy. Firstfruits is an offering that the Israelites brought to the priests who offered it on their behalf, which sanctified their whole harvest. It is an ALLEGORY. Jesus is our high priest who offered Himself (His blood) on our behalf.....and we in effect bring Him to be offered when we in acknowledge our sins....in effect acknowledging that our sins put Him on the cross...and accept His sacrifice on our behalf. Christ is our firstfruits offering that makes us holy.

I heard a preacher remind us recently that when the brought the offering, the priests would examine the lamb, never the person bringing it. The lamb had to be perfect, everybody knew the person had sinned.

Much love!

 

[Peterlag]

There are two Yahwehs. God is One Spirit in two Persons. The Father is "Elyon" The Most High.

Jesus Yahweh spoke face to face with Moses...whereas the Father could only be glimpsed from behind. There are SOO many of these dualities. Even the word Elohim means DOUBLE GOD. (The way Ephraim means double fruit or Machanayim means two camps)

Even the shema speaks of two being ONE... echad. A man and his wife become One flesh (levasar echad) And the two sticks in Ezekiel become one stick (ets echad) So then ECHAD always means two into one.

Hear O Israel the Lord (Yahweh) your God AND the Lord (Yahweh) are One. (One Spirit)

God gave the Scriptures to the Jewish people, and the Jewish religion and worship that comes from that revelation does not contain any reference to or teachings about a triune God. Surely the Jewish people were qualified to read and understand it, but they never saw the doctrine of the Trinity, but rather just the opposite as all throughout their history they fiercely defended the fact that there was only one God.

 

[Raccoon1010]

New Podcast! Take the time to investigate the deeper ramifications of the gospel.

I don't need to watch a podcast to see the higher walk in the new testament. They sold all their possessions and lived in common with everyone receiving according to their needs.

 

[Illuminator]

God gave the Scriptures to the Jewish people, and the Jewish religion and worship that comes from that revelation does not contain any reference to or teachings about a triune God. Surely the Jewish people were qualified to read and understand it, but they never saw the doctrine of the Trinity, but rather just the opposite as all throughout their history they fiercely defended the fact that there was only one God.

Just remember that when you have conversations about the Trinity, the most important distinction you can make is between beings, persons, and natures. A being is a unified substance that exists. A person is an “I,” or individual self. Think of God as one being that is composed of three “I’s” or three persons, each of whom is fully God. The famous “Trinity shield” pictured above can help illustrate this concept. Frank Sheed wrote:

The newcomer to this sort of thinking must be prepared to work hard here. It is a decisive stage of our advance into theology to get some grasp of the meaning of nature and the meaning of person. Fortunately, the first stage of our search goes easily enough. We begin with ourselves. Such a phrase as “my nature” suggests that there is a person, I, who possesses a nature. The person could not exist without his nature, but there is some distinction all the same; for it is the person who possesses the nature and not the other way round.
One distinction we see instantly. Nature answers the question of what we are; person answers the question of who we are. Every being has a nature; of every being we may properly ask, “What is it?” But not every being is a person: only rational beings are persons. We could not properly ask of a stone or a potato or an oyster, “Who is it?” (Theology and Sanity, p. 92).

When we examine the Trinity, we can ask of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit who they are. The Father is the creator, the Son is the redeemer, and the Holy Spirit is the sanctifier. The Church teaches that the Son was eternally begotten by the Father. The Father has always been the Father and the Son has always been the Son. The Holy Spirit proceeds from both the father and the Son. Though they differ in their roles, it does not follow that the members of the Trinity differ in what they are. When we ask what the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are, the answer is always the same. The Father is God. The Son is God. The Holy Spirit is God. Not a god. Each is God.

Critics may say God can’t be three Gods, and they are right. But if there can be beings composed of zero persons, and beings composed of one person, why can’t there be a being composed of three persons? To say God can’t be more than one person is to put a human limit upon divine omnipotence. If God is all-powerful, there is no reason he can’t enter into his creation or exist as the perfect cooperation of three equally divine persons.

Also, if God is love (1 John 4:8, 16) then love does not exist in a vacuum. Love involves fully giving oneself to the beloved. If God existed as love for all eternity, then there must have been someone to receive his love. Otherwise, God’s love would be imperfect, because it would not be willing the good of another person.

Furthermore, just as the love of husband and wife creates a new person, the eternal love shared between the Father and Son is itself an eternal person—the Holy Spirit, who enlivens the hearts of believers to understand the mystery of God’s love and share it with the rest of the world.
source

 

[Rita]

Thread locked- how long will it take members to respect that the trinity is a banned subject, especially those members who have been part of the forum since the rule was introduced.