IS THE REFORMED FAITH BIBLICAL?

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Ritajanice

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I don't buy this line of thinking for this reason:

What does a God who can have anything He wants really want?

I don’t think he wants...he wills...his will be done on heaven as it is “ on earth “.

Not understanding “ wants” I’m afraid....” wills” yes, most definitely....as it’s biblical..is “ wants” biblical?

The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9)
Not wanting anyone to perish, only the Lord can bring us to repentance.not wanting anyone to perish, what does that mean even?.....who knows.
In the verse in question, it appears that what God desires is for an independent third party to freely "change his mind" (metanoia). For God to get what God desires, God logically has to sovereignly decide to limit the use of His own power.
Have no idea what you are trying to say here, maybe because it’s from your own logic?
Think about it. Getting what you want all the time gets boring after a few millennia or a few eons. Maybe God created Man, gave us independence, and sovereignly limits His own power in His dealings with us so that He could desire something that He may or may not get.
I’m not sure what you mean when you say “ getting what you want”?
I suspect, though, that God isn't all that religious in applying the above.
Again, I have no understanding of what you are saying here.
"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. (Matthew 23:37)
I don’t understand any of this scripture, I can only understand from my understanding that the Spirit gives me, by feeding me with spirit food...

Do you understand every word of scripture?
 
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Lambano

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Although, my POV leaves a question about what is meant by "not wanting anyone to perish"
Looking at Strongs G1014, βουλόμενός followed by an accusative and an infinitive verb indicates that it is not God's intent or purpose that any should be destroyed. The word translated "perish" is the same word translated "destroy" in your Matthew 10:28 quote. Not to mention John 3:16. I think you called that one right.

The doctrine of Purgatory took a bad reputational hit during the Reformation when the Church used it as a fundraising tool for the Vatican building project. The RCC has since disavowed it, and Protestants consider it anathema.
 
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Lambano

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Not understanding “ wants” I’m afraid....” wills” yes, most definitely....as it’s biblical..is “ wants” biblical?
I don’t understand any of this scripture,

There are two types of "will": The will of desire, which in English we would call "wanting". Then there is the will of purpose and intent, which leads to action; the will of planning. I've seen theology books that say that the Greek word "thelo" means the will of desire and "boulemai" indicates the will of purpose, but I don't see that applied consistently.

In the 2 Peter verse, the word used is the will of intent: It is not God's purpose or intent that any should perish. God isn't out to destroy people. His intent is that all should come to repentance. Then the question becomes, who are the "any" and who are the "all"? The context of 2 Peter 3:7 indicates "any" and "all" refers to "ungodly men". Then the next question @St. SteVen should ask, is if God's purpose is for all to "make room" (Greek "choreo") for repentance, why do they not all repent?

In the Matthew/Luke verse, the word used is the will of desire: God wanted to gather up Israel tenderly; Israel didn't want to. God didn't get what He wanted. Which was my own intent: To demonstrate scripturally that sometimes God doesn't get what He wants. Why should that be?
 
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Ritajanice

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There are two types of "will": The will of desire, which in English we would call "wanting". Then there is the will of purpose and intent, which leads to action; the will of planning. I've seen theology books that say that the Greek word "thelo" means the will of desire and "boulemai" indicates the will of purpose, but I don't see that applied consistently.

In the 2 Peter verse, the word used is the will of intent: It is not God's purpose or intent that any should perish. God isn't out to destroy people. His intent is that all should come to repentance. Then the question becomes, who are the "any" and who are the "all"? The context of 2 Peter 3:7 indicates "any" and "all" refers to "ungodly men". Then the next question @St. SteVen should ask, is if God's purpose is for all to "make room" (Greek "choreo") for repentance, why do they not all repent?

In the Matthew/Luke verse, the word used is the will of desire: God wanted to gather up Israel tenderly; Israel didn't want to. God didn't get what He wanted. Which was my own intent: To demonstrate scripturally that sometimes God doesn't get what He wants. Why should that be?
Sorry my friend, I have absolutely no understanding of what you say, I think you are trying to figure stuff out, which is a good thing....ask God for guidance as I’m sure he is giving you.

With respect I have no interest of the subject matter, ...to be honest I have racked my brain at times trying to understand the word...it’s pointless, only God can reveal it to me in his timing.....I’ve made myself ill racking my brain....I now rest in him make my request known to him, then wait for him to answer ,if his will is to do so.

I leave everything in his hands.....

By the way, Gods will can never be thwarted as his written word says.
 

Lambano

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Sorry my friend, I have absolutely no understanding of what you say, I think you are trying to figure stuff out, which is a good thing....ask God for guidance as I’m sure he is giving you.
I am writing under the assumption that I have been so guided. (But of course I could be wrong. Not that I should ever admit that on an internet forum.)

But instead, I'll just leave you with questions to ponder, and you and God can work it out.
  • What does 2 Peter 3:9 say about God's character?
  • Why doesn't God always get what He wants?
 
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St. SteVen

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Lambano said:
I don't buy this line of thinking for this reason:
What does a God who can have anything He wants really want?
I don’t think he wants...he wills...his will be done on heaven as it is “ on earth “.

Not understanding “ wants” I’m afraid....” wills” yes, most definitely....as it’s biblical..is “ wants” biblical?
Is it biblical?
Been giving this some thought lately.

Mostly in the situation where someone accuses someone else of having "unbiblical" doctrine. Say what?

Be it true or false, isn't all doctrine biblical?

[
 

Ritajanice

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Lambano said:
I don't buy this line of thinking for this reason:
What does a God who can have anything He wants really want?

Is it biblical?
Been giving this some thought lately.

Mostly in the situation where someone accuses someone else of having "unbiblical" doctrine. Say what?
Have no idea of what you are getting at here, what is your point, I asked if it was Biblical,?

Wanting none to to perish...is not the same as Gods will now is it?

Who wills us to be Born Again you or the Father @St. SteVen ?

Who by His mercy brings our spirit Alive in Christ?...ours or His?..The Holy Spirit.
Be it true or false, isn't all doctrine biblical?

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I hope so, if it’s coming from the written word.
 

St. SteVen

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Looking at Strongs G1014, βουλόμενός followed by an accusative and an infinitive verb indicates that it is not God's intent or purpose that any should be destroyed. The word translated "perish" is the same word translated "destroy" in your Matthew 10:28 quote. I think you called that one right.
Yes, that's good, thanks.
It's God's will that none should be destroyed... but that all should come to repentance.

- Damnationism says that means a constant state of destruction for all eternity.
- Annihilationism says that means destruction in a moment of time, leaving nothing behind.
- Ultimate Redemption says that means everything bad about a person will be burned away.

God's will: (intent/purpose)
- That none should be destroyed
- But that all should come to repentance

The doctrine of Purgatory took a bad reputational hit during the Reformation when the Church used the threat of it as a fundraising tool for the Vatican building project.
Indeed.
I wonder if the doctrine began as a good thing, but was then corrupted?

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Ritajanice

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I am writing under the assumption that I have been so guided. (But of course I could be wrong. Not that I should ever admit that on an internet forum.) And I am frustrated when others just don't understand.

But instead, I'll just leave you with questions to ponder, and you and God can work it out.
  • What does 2 Peter 3:9 say about God's character?
  • Why doesn't God always get what He wants?
Thank you, I will ponder if it’s Gods will to do so.
 

Ritajanice

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What does "God's will" mean to you?

I should've asked that question up front.
It means to me that exactly what he says it means....if it’s his will that I die tonight ( heaven forbid) his will be done..that’s my belief.

He willed me by His Spirit that I become Born Again..by His will not my will.

Who does the will of the Father on this earth?

Hope that makes sense.
 
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Johann

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There are two types of "will": The will of desire, which in English we would call "wanting". Then there is the will of purpose and intent, which leads to action; the will of planning. I've seen theology books that say that the Greek word "thelo" means the will of desire and "boulemai" indicates the will of purpose, but I don't see that applied consistently.

In the 2 Peter verse, the word used is the will of intent: It is not God's purpose or intent that any should perish. God isn't out to destroy people. His intent is that all should come to repentance. Then the question becomes, who are the "any" and who are the "all"? The context of 2 Peter 3:7 indicates "any" and "all" refers to "ungodly men". Then the next question @St. SteVen should ask, is if God's purpose is for all to "make room" (Greek "choreo") for repentance, why do they not all repent?

In the Matthew/Luke verse, the word used is the will of desire: God wanted to gather up Israel tenderly; Israel didn't want to. God didn't get what He wanted. Which was my own intent: To demonstrate scripturally that sometimes God doesn't get what He wants. Why should that be?

--not slow [slack, delaying] to fulfill his promise -- God does not defer [i.e. not loitering or late] or forget to fulfill his promises, though men may forget.
The scoffers questioned whether a judgment [Christ] was coming at all or whether Christ had changed his mind.

but is patient [longsuffering] toward us -- The fact that the Lord permitted time to continue is an evidence of His goodness, and patience. His delay in bringing judgment is so that more can be saved. (cf. Mat_24:22; Mar_13:20).

(But considering how wickedness built up in the nations of Israel, Judah, Babylon, Jerusalem, Rome, etc. before God came in a judgment upon them, we wonder how long God's immense capacity for patience will continue with the U.S.?)

not wishing [willing] that any should perish -- God does not desire or wish that anyone be lost. His nature is benevolent, and He sincerely desires the eternal happiness of all, and His patience toward sinners “proves” that He is willing that they should be saved. 1Ti_2:4; Eze_33:11; ).

all should reach [come to; repentance -- Act_17:30; Joh_3:16-17; Rev_22:17. While God's desire if for all men to repent and be save, not all will be, Mat_25:46.

that any. Gr. tis (S# G5100, Col_2:8 note).

but that all. or, but for all conceivable men (LNT). All conceivable men translates the force of pantas (masculine gender) without the article (LNT, fn b). **FS171B, +Gen_24:10, +*Psa_86:5, Joh_1:7, **Joh_3:16, **Rom_2:4; +*Rom_5:18; *Rom_11:32, +*1Ti_2:4, *Heb_2:9, %**Rev_2:21; %**Rev_17:8.


Boulē (βουλή) – Deliberate Plan or Counsel
This term refers to the intentional, deliberate plan of God that is set from eternity. It's about God's purposes that unfold in history, often beyond human control or understanding.
Example: In Acts 2:23, the "deliberate plan" for Christ's crucifixion was part of God's ultimate plan for salvation, though executed by human hands. This aligns with God’s overarching counsel for the world.

2. Thelema (θέλημα) – Desire or Will
Thelema emphasizes what God desires or commands. It is a more general term for God's will, including both moral commands and desires for His people.

Example: In Matthew 6:10, when Jesus teaches the disciples to pray "Your will be done," this reflects God's desire for the establishment of His kingdom and moral order on earth.

Other Concepts in Scripture (Beyond Boule and Thelema)

Permissive Will: This allows for human freedom and events that may not align with God's moral desires (e.g., sin), yet God works through these for ultimate good (e.g., Genesis 50:20).

Sovereign Will: This reflects God's authority over all things, as seen in Isaiah 46:9-10 where God declares, "My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure."

God is in control and accomplish everything according to His will/boule/thelema. @Lambano
 

Ritajanice

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The Witness of John
…12But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— 13children bornnot of blood, nor of the desire or will of man,but born of God. 14The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the one and only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
 

GodsGrace

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6 Because you are his sons and daughters, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.” (Galatians 4:6)

That's the go-to verse. For those who have not been blessed with this kind of assurance in their hearts, I gently advise them to trust God and His promises anyway. Because I've been there. Sometimes faith, hope, and love are all you've got.
Sure.
But what you state above is a feeling.
We learn early on in the Christian faith that we should not go by feelings but by facts.
The fact is that if it's me that chooses God, I can be sure of the choice I've made...it's my choice.
That would be sufficient to assure me that I have chosen.

The bible teaches that we can seek God (something Calvinists deny due to total depravity).
James 4:8 assures me of my salvation:
8Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you.

We can know that God exists
Romans 1:20

Then, if I seek God, He will surely draw near to me and abide with me, as He has promised.
 

GodsGrace

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The Witness of John
…12But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— 13children bornnot of blood, nor of the desire or will of man,but born of God. 14The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the one and only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Great verse.
Let's look at it:

TO ALL WHO DID RECEIVE HIM:
This implies that God must be received by us...actively received.
An action is required on our part.

TO THOSE WHO BELIEVED IN HIS NAME:
Another action. We must believe just as Hebrews 11:6 states:
6And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

WE ARE NOT MADE CHILDREN BY BLOOD:
As Paul stated, one is not Israel because he was born of Israel...
Romans 9:6

NOR OF THE DESIRE OR WILL OF MAN
We cannot just will/want to be saved, but must follow the requirements that God has set.
There are CONDITIONS to being saved.....

BUT BORN OF GOD
When we accept the conditions of God,,,we can be saved.
John 3:16
 

St. SteVen

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Then the next question @St. SteVen should ask, is if God's purpose is for all to "make room" (Greek "choreo") for repentance, why do they not all repent?
The question assumes that all will NOT "make room" for repentance.
It also assumes that there is a deadline for repentance. (this earthly lifetime)
These assumptions beg some serious questions about the judgment/evaluation.

Every nation, all leaders (both political and religious), every individual throughout time.
Every thought and deed, the intentions of the heart, laid bare for all to see.
"... on the day when God judges people’s secrets..." (Romans 2:16) See below.
This will take an entire age. IMHO

Countless billions have gone to the afterlife with no knowledge of Christ.
Obviously there was no opportunity to reject Him.

Romans 2:14-16 NIV
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law,
do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves,
even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts,
their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts
sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ,
as my gospel declares.

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Ritajanice

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Great verse.
Let's look at it:

TO ALL WHO DID RECEIVE HIM:
This implies that God must be received by us...actively received.
An action is required on our part.
I understand what you are saying and agree....when it came to my spirit birth, I received him because he had made my heart “ ready” ( softened )to receive him.there was NO resistance from me..it was all done according to his will ,purpose and plan.

I understand what you are saying though and agree....we can say NO!...if it’s his will, he will get them in the end, he’s at work in their hearts/ spirit...softening it , to receive him..that’s my belief...mind Blowing.
TO THOSE WHO BELIEVED IN HIS NAME:
Another action. We must believe just as Hebrews 11:6 states:
6And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

WE ARE NOT MADE CHILDREN BY BLOOD:
As Paul stated, one is not Israel because he was born of Israel...
Romans 9:6

NOR OF THE DESIRE OR WILL OF MAN
We cannot just will/want to be saved, but must follow the requirements that God has set.
There are CONDITIONS to being saved.....

BUT BORN OF GOD
When we accept the conditions of God,,,we can be saved.
John 3:16
 

St. SteVen

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Have no idea of what you are getting at here, what is your point, I asked if it was Biblical,?

Wanting none to to perish...is not the same as Gods will now is it?

Who wills us to be Born Again you or the Father @St. SteVen ?

Who by His mercy brings our spirit Alive in Christ?...ours or His?..The Holy Spirit.
What do you make of these? (from the NIV)

Romans 9:18
Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

1 Timothy 2:4
who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

1 Peter 5:2
Be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care, watching over them—
not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be;
not pursuing dishonest gain, but eager to serve;

[
 

Ritajanice

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What do you make of these? (from the NIV)

Romans 9:18
Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
Didn’t I ask you that question?lol.
1 Timothy 2:4
who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
What does saved mean to you?
1 Peter 5:2
Be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care, watching over them—
not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be;
not pursuing dishonest gain, but eager to serve;

[
Not understanding this scripture..not yet anyway.

Does it mean being a teacher?

I’m not a teacher.