Is the nation of Israel really of the devil, fooling Christians?

[friend of]

@Soverign Grace I'm more worried about China than Zionism

 

[Enoch111]

The queen denominations hold the foundational teachings . The Protestants and all that which follow have removed all the meat, and deny the very truths Christ laid. You especially go off about Christ's mother.

Are you trying to promote the Catholic Church with these comments?Their false doctrines and practices speak for themselves. Just sit down with your Bible and compare the differences.

 

[Enoch111]

@Soverign Grace I'm more worried about China than Zionism

Right. China is a huge threat to America.

But Christians need to understand that the only reason Zionism came into existence is because Jews were being persecuted throughout Europe and Tsarist Russia (and what became the Soviet Union later) for almost 2000 years.

In the 15th century Jews were expelled from Spain, Austria, Hungary, and Germany, and migrated to Poland. Earlier on they were expelled from England, France, Italy, Sicily, Portugal, and Lithuania.In the 19th century Jews were required to live in ghettos in the Papal States throughout Europe (thus making them second or third class citizens or pariahs, and Pope Pius IX was involved). There were pogroms against Jews at this time, where Jews were massacred simply because they were Jews. So Anti-Semitism and hatred of the Jews has a long history, and even the USA turned away Jewish refugees who were trying to escape the Nazis.

Today Zionism is simply historical. The nation-state of Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East and sits in the middle of enemies surrounding it on every side. The Six Day War was supposed to obliterate the Jews, but Israel turned the tables on the Arabs. After that every time a peace proposal has been presented to the Palestinians they have deliberately rejected it. Today the Muslim terrorist organizations Hamas and Hezbollah control Palestine and Lebanon, and Iran supplies cash and arms to continue the harassment of Israel.

Radical Islam hates all Jews, Christians, and the West in general. Therefore it is morally righteous for countries to support Israel. Nonetheless, neither the UN nor the EU are sympathetic to Israel, and there is a huge amount of Anti-Semitism in the West.

 

[friend of]

Radical Islam hates all Jews, Christians, and the West in general. Therefore it is morally righteous for countries to support Israel. Nonetheless, neither the UN nor the EU are sympathetic to Israel, and there is a huge amount of Anti-Semitism in the West.

True. Good post.

 

[John Caldwell]

I don't know about all of this stuff (I will leave it to the scholars on this forum).

But I will say it is at the very least ironic that the secular world has historically been and is now distinctly anti-Israel.

I am not saying this means anything.... Just an observation.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

I agree with Enoch. Your posts tend to be totally bizarre and hateful, and you tend to have no tolerance for truth. Your anti-semitic God-hating post about Zionism. I am not at all interested in what an apostate like David Stewart has to say about it. I have heard the declarations from many of Satan's servants like him. Satan's works are so transparent and familiar.

Unlike them, I have studied the Scriptures, and in those studies, Zionism is a prominent theme throughout Scripture from beginning to end. Ezekiel reveals in detail, God's Zionist plan for the End Times, and it is wonderful to see His plan unfolding before us.

The so called Zionist ? and the Zion of the Bible are two different things.
Many devout dedicated Jews will point this out, they say that the Zionist do not represent them and they have marched in the streets in the State of Israel and NY against such, saying that such are just like the Socialist Nazis bastards dictating over all of the Jews.
And Them Jews are not rejecting Zion at all, as they understand what true Zion truly is in fact. not to mention that they are not the atheist rat bag Jews who promote Sodom in the State.

How does the Bible explain how Satan's works are, Stan ? does it say that such are transparent and familiar ? I have never seen that written anywhere.

 

[quietthinker]

Even a cursory look at the disposition of Israel as a political nation screams that they are opposed to Jesus as the fulfilment of their scriptures.
This is clearly evident in the New Testament records of how the ruling parties hounded the apostles. It is also evident in history. The fact that Israel today is planing a third temple is a witness to their rejection of God's plan while seeking to establish their own.

Are the majority of 'Christians' deceived on this matter. I think so and that conclusion allows me to not get caught up in the Israel/Christian hype that serves only to distract by taking the attention from what matters.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Right. China is a huge threat to America.

But Christians need to understand that the only reason Zionism came into existence is because Jews were being persecuted throughout Europe and Tsarist Russia (and what became the Soviet Union later) for almost 2000 years.

In the 15th century Jews were expelled from Spain, Austria, Hungary, and Germany, and migrated to Poland. Earlier on they were expelled from England, France, Italy, Sicily, Portugal, and Lithuania.In the 19th century Jews were required to live in ghettos in the Papal States throughout Europe (thus making them second or third class citizens or pariahs, and Pope Pius IX was involved). There were pogroms against Jews at this time, where Jews were massacred simply because they were Jews. So Anti-Semitism and hatred of the Jews has a long history, and even the USA turned away Jewish refugees who were trying to escape the Nazis.

Today Zionism is simply historical. The nation-state of Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East and sits in the middle of enemies surrounding it on every side. The Six Day War was supposed to obliterate the Jews, but Israel turned the tables on the Arabs. After that every time a peace proposal has been presented to the Palestinians they have deliberately rejected it. Today the Muslim terrorist organizations Hamas and Hezbollah control Palestine and Lebanon, and Iran supplies cash and arms to continue the harassment of Israel.

Radical Islam hates all Jews, Christians, and the West in general. Therefore it is morally righteous for countries to support Israel. Nonetheless, neither the UN nor the EU are sympathetic to Israel, and there is a huge amount of Anti-Semitism in the West.

The so called Jews ? were kicked out of all them Nations because they were working to undermine the Nations, but certain Jews were not kicked out, like in Russia we can see that most of them were in charge of the Communist party and guess what I would not call them truly Jews but a Talmud controlled organised bunch of Satanist, murdering bastards that starved to death over 10 million in the Ukraine, not to mention killed many Russians coming home from WW2 not to mention all the horror murdering anyone who opposed them in Russia all through the years the Communist were In power.
The Talmud whore helped create the Nazis and the Communist and the idiot pigs of Capitalism creating a disgusting greed culture and it is involved with all the depravity that we are seeing promoted like Sodomy, peddling Drugs and empowering mindless idiots through the media and dragging the USA down and enslaving them in debt trap, that will wipe the floor with them.

Not to mention fully peddling to divide the USA 24/7 it's the old game of trying to divide and conquer, the USA is truly under attack by a ruthless cunning demonic force that's for sure, hell bent on Atheist Communism.

Just a word of warning, never trust anyone who is an Anti-Christ ever, as they truly are what Jesus warned us all about.

 

[bbyrd009]

Notice that @Nancy put the word, "Christians", in quotation marks. There was certainly a reason for that. It may be the same reason that you've never met someone you could classify that way. We are talking about rotten fruits, are we not? What does a tree produce? What is a tree? Then again what is a Christian according to...?

ever notice how ppl, the same person can act one way toward one person and another way toward another, for no apparent reason? You can just watch their demeanor change?

 

[Enoch111]

Removed: The Coptic and Syrian Orthodox churches are not too far removed from the Greek Orthodox Church, which is not too far removed from the Catholic Church. So basically you are all in the same boat, with man-made traditions and Bible truth all mixed up.

 

[Enoch111]

The so called Jews ? were kicked out of all them Nations because they were working to undermine the Nations...

You are trying to paint all Jews with the same brush, which is neither fair nor based upon truth.

 

[Enoch111]

Even a cursory look at the disposition of Israel as a political nation screams that they are opposed to Jesus as the fulfilment of their scriptures.

This is not even the issue. The world does not care about the religious aspect of the problem, since it is also opposed to Christ. But they simply hate Jews because they are Jews (and perhaps out of jealousy). It's like everyone hating Australians simply because they are Aussies. How would you like that?

 

[amadeus]

seems kinda suicidal, huh

Yes, even so. Consider what Jesus said in John 10:17:

"Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again."

And then the first part of the next verse, John 10:18:

"No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself..." What did Jesus do? What does God expect us to do?

And in the second part:

"...I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."

Should we have power both to lay down our life and to take it again? What commandment have we received from our Father?

Maybe the following verses are speaking of the same situation?

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal." John 12:24-25

 

[amadeus]

@bbyrd009

amadeus said: ↑
When I cannot tell the difference [between the vision and the nightmare] in a moment, why is that?

seems like you're asking why we suffer
we suffer because _______

What just came to my mind reading the question, 'why we suffer, is Saul/Paul's first recorded conversation with Jesus:

"And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks." Acts 9:5

What was Jesus telling him? Some people want to say that Paul's message is different than James' message, but here Jesus is describing the same problem of double-mindedness... or as I see it anyway. We hurt ourselves terribly when we fight against God and who does not? Consider what Paul writes in the following verse:

"Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body." I Cor 6:18

We may want think only of physical fornication, but should we? What really should our own body be once we have met our Head and surrendered ourselves completely to Him? What and where is the Body of Christ, if it is not us? Jesus arose from the dead, but at the time he really had no body:

"...the Son of man hath not where to lay his head." Matt 8:20

We are to be the place for his head! We are to be the Body of Christ. The Head is ready, but Jesus awaits us and when allowed to work in us he molds us so that we will fit perfectly and work perfectly as his Body.

"But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love." Eph 4:15-16

So then what is the nightmare really but us kicking against the pricks? It is us still in our doublemindedness. It is the new man of us, a part of the Body of Christ to be, opposed to the old man of us. We need to kill that old man!

we form and carry a like a model, an ideal for the 'vision,' 1959 or whatever, 1949, 39, doesnt matter, one could be found whose ideal was in the depths of a depression or war even, and they were just insulated from it, and we do some insulating, too i guess, not realizing that perceiving things as better once than they are now is also an indicator of our perspective of heaven, that magical place where all that we imagine heaven to be might manifest, not realizing that those would be the very worst things for us, as our multitude of real life examples might attest.

Ultimately the vision is God's, but it should be becoming ours as well. In the OT we see a type or shadow of God's vision for us [His order] in the arrangement of the children of Israel on the march [Numbers 10] or in their encampment [Numbers 2]. Those illustrate for us that God has a perfect order as well as timing for all things [Outline of the Timing in Ecc chapter 3]. Our understanding of it is as through a glass darkly [I Cor 13:12] if we are already have a "eyes to see" from God, that is a view of His 'vision'. Our vision needs to be approaching that face to face vision. Those without any vision are already dead or dying, not to the flesh, but to God.

There are lots of other types and shadows around us which people sometimes see ... but in the end of it:

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

anyway i'm not seeing the v Quoted "trust ppl to do what you might expect," and i suspect we are still talking about expectations tbh. The pre-arranged script we form in our minds. Now this is a huge secret that i would never reveal if i thought anyone was listening lol, but if one can ignore their own p-a scripts and discover other ppls p-a scripts, for one its an unlimited growth market, but for another the nightmares pretty much go away lol. Ah ok wow i guess they dont go away just you do, sorta. Ya they just arent nightmares any more, change in perception

Lots of these pre-arranged scripts around, I guess. Undoubtedly many of them have some measure of truth. The question to be asked is are they moving toward the flawless script of God? Is His script the secret? Too many people are so locked into their p-a scripts and anything outside of it is considered to be either of the devil or a mystery/secret that no man can understand. They make God a liar. Sometimes they/we even have nightmares about it. The battlegrounds are within each of us. We are really winning, that is growing toward God, the nightmare is going away. The perception is changing from "men as trees, walking" to a face to face vision... that is the ability to do that God once told Moses was impossible for a man, to see the face of God!

 

[amadeus]

ever notice how ppl, the same person can act one way toward one person and another way toward another, for no apparent reason? You can just watch their demeanor change?

Yes indeed! But... "I am the LORD, I change not;..." Mal 3:6, and are we not eventually to be like Him. How close can we come? As close as we allow Him to bring us. But again, there are many it seems who become their own pathfinders and in their deceptions get lost along the way. This last is not those who never believed, but rather those who lost sight of their first love. When are becoming like Him, will we not come to love also Judas and those who condemn us?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Yes, even so.

Suicidal or Faith? Consider Abraham gathering the wood and taking Isaac to the top of the hill, knowing the promise seed would come through Isaac. (Imo) suicidal is hopelessness. Not the same (again just an opinion) as Matthew 16:24-25 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. [25] For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

And in the second part:

"...I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."

Should we have power both to lay down our life and to take it again?

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

what power given to become the Sons of God if not walk as He walked: “to lay down our life and to take it again?”

What commandment have we received from our Father?

The same.

 

[amadeus]

Suicidal or Faith? Consider Abraham gathering the wood and taking Isaac to the top of the hill, knowing the promise seed would come through Isaac. (Imo) suicidal is hopelessness. Not the same (again just an opinion) as Matthew 16:24-25 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. [25] For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

As often happens there are communication problems between people. I agree that 'suicidal' indicates hopelessness as the word is normally applied. I was responding to our friend @bbyrd009 and he used the word, suicidal, but not with such a precisely negative connotation. I did not make that clear in my response.

The point is that we do need to kill of the old man of us. No one else can do that in us while we still have time unless we surrender to God. He will help us if we will let Him do so. When we are surrendered to Him then He will direct us even in the killing of that old man. What we are to kill is the evil attractions within us: the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eye and the pride of life... which when followed lead us to sin and death without God.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

what power given to become the Sons of God if not walk as He walked: “to lay down our life and to take it again?”

The same.

Lay down the life of the old man and take up the Life of the new man!

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

You are trying to paint all Jews with the same brush, which is neither fair nor based upon truth.

How can you say that I am doing that, I do not regard the Talmud or the so called Zionist as truly worthy to be regarded as Jews at all as they are false Jews that lead all others astray.

See that I see the Talmud as a great Whore and the Zionist as false Zion.

 

[quietthinker]

This is not even the issue. The world does not care about the religious aspect of the problem, since it is also opposed to Christ. But they simply hate Jews because they are Jews (and perhaps out of jealousy). It's like everyone hating Australians simply because they are Aussies. How would you like that?

I was addressing the original post Enoch. I should have made that clear :)

 

[Soverign Grace]

So true. People should watch the news just to get a sort of perspective but don't live it like a religion. With prayerful study of the scriptures you begin to see there is NOTHING righteous in the news nor governments. The Syria issue for instance, has anyone been paying attention from the onset? It is not as the narrative has been given and that narrative is full of holes lie, and contradictions. But prophecy is being fulfilled and not the righteous part of it either . And it is being fulfilled by the unGodly. The oldest city in the world Damascus , have you seen it? I am sure you have. All this alerts us to how close we are to Christ's return. I am sure I am preaching to the choir concerning awareness of that.

What's going on in the middle east is really a land grab by America ( for the Zionist) but the thorn in their side Russia TWO BIG PLAYERS- will not just sit back and let them only have the spoils. Did you notice Russia always gets involved once the dismantling is just about done? It is simply a confiscating of the land and its riches. Those who do not comply with the agenda are toppled and a puppet king controlled by the Zionist Jew is put in place. This has happened throughout the middle east and with Island nations Latin and south American nations. Mexico will be next. You don't think the Big Boys at the pinnacle of power are going to let the drug cartels run things there do you? No one out ranks them. They will put that in check not because they are righteous but because they are power hungry and the world is THEIR OYSTER and they will not share power in evil it has been given to the Rothschilds. Satan has given them his own throne power and authority.

I trust very little of what is on the mainstream news. Thank God you know about Zionism! It's good to find others whose eyes are being opened to it. Exactly what you've said is what I had been learning - that none of what is being fed to the public is true about these middle east goings on - it's shocking to see how many believe the lies though. I don't know the full story about Syria but from what I've read here and there it's all about getting their oil and about controlling the countries surrounding Israel. This is where I see that so many "Christians" aren't being honest - they don't care about the Syrians and how bombs are being dropped on them. Where is the compassion Christ taught?

From what I'm gathering, what you said is true: those who don't comply with the NWO agenda are toppled and a puppet king controlled by the Zionist Jew is put in place. I'm just beginning to learn about the leaders in other countries who were removed. It's all of these reasons that help me see that there is no chance of Trump being an "outsider" - I hope Christians open their eyes to see that he's all talk and not doing anything to Make America Great Again outside of throwing a few bones.

I worked as the receptionist when the factories in our city were closed after years of supporting many of the people in our area. Those people were angry. The city collapsed and turned into a drug wasteland - and that's been repeated all across America. I don't think we're only to sit back as Revelations unfolds - I think God expects us to work alongside of Him, but as long as everyone thinks their man in the White House has them covered and they can sit back and relax then no one is thinking about what they personally can do to contribute.