Is the first resurrection physical or spiritual?

[Stewardofthemystery]

Part 2….
And again in verse 12 the judgment “And the altars that were on the top of the upper chamber of Ahaz, which the kings of Judah had made, and the altars which Manasseh had made in the two courts of the house of the Lord, did the king beat down, and brake them down from thence, and cast the "dust" H6083 of them into the brook Kidron.”(dust + water again) And here again in verse 15 “Moreover the altar that was at Bethel, and the high place which Jeroboam the son of Nebat, who made Israel to "sin", had made, both that altar and the high place he brake down, and"burned" the high place, and stamped it small to "powder",H6083 and burned the grove.”

So we see in this a repetition, and a pattern being shown in different ways, concerning "this curse"which brings forth the judgment.
The Lord even spoke of "a curse" in the flying roll, which was to come upon "the whole earth" in Zechariah 5:3-4 “Then said he unto me, This is "the curse" that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth: for every one that stealeth shall be cut off as on this side according to it; and every one that sweareth shall be cut off as on that side according to it.4 I will bring it forth, saith the Lord of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of "the thief," and into the house of him that "sweareth falsely by my name": and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof.” (judgment by fire again)

This flying roll may have contained "the judgments" determined by God upon the whole earth, which was also shown in Jeremiah and Ezekiel, and also a little book is also shown in Revelation…that was sweet in the mouth, but"bitter" in the belly.

Those who "steal God’s words" and "corrupt"them, and those "swear falsely" by the Lords name are the HYPOCRITES in religion; and we know this kind of leaven can leaven the whole lump. And again, this is much like the "mixing "of the holy water (Living waters) with the "dust", or of the "flesh". This I also believe symbolizes the doctrines and traditions of "carnally minded" men "mixing into" the Living waters, which in turn make for "bitter" waters, and thus brings forth"a curse."

This was also shown in the test for the unfaithful woman. (Harlot)
And also in Zechariah 5:11 "wickedness is shown as a woman" who would be set upon her own base into the land of "Shinar", which I believe also signifies “Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.”

And this Mother of Harlots is drunk on "blood"(flesh and blood from "the dust") as shown in Revelation 17:6 “And I saw the woman drunken with "the blood" of the saints, and with "the blood" of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.”

And also the Mother of Harlot sits on "many waters" as seen in Revelation 17… I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great ***** that sitteth upon "many waters:”( As she also sits on a "scarlet" colored beast)

And the whole earth is made drunk with her wine of "fornication". So by that association of partaking in "her sins" we see they have also become the "accursed thing", which we saw in the book of Joshua. And also notice the kings of the earth are to "burn her with fire and also eat her flesh" in verse 16 “these shall hate the *****, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.”

And so again we see the same judgment of burning with fire here in Revelation 18:8“Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be "utterly burned with fire": for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

So we have all the ingredients that were shown in the past….the dust =(flesh and blood) the ashes(burned with fire) and also the waters (she sits on many waters). And so the ***** is like the woman “wickedness” we saw in Zechariah contained in a vessel and passed around for the whole world to drink, much like "the golden cup" of Babylon.

Jeremiah 51:7 “Babylon hath been "a golden cup" in the Lord's hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of "her wine"; therefore the nations are mad.” So the whole world has become "accursed" by her wine, and shall also suffer the same consummation by fire. 2 Peter 3:7 “But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.”

And again the return to ashes…Malachi 4:1-3 “For, behold, the day cometh, that shall "burn as an oven"; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall "burn them up", saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down "the wicked"; for they shall be "ashes" under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts"

But there is also a sign of where the curse wasturned into a blessing as shown in Jesus Himself; who is the “Living waters”, and who was also made to be "a curse" for us by being made to be "sin" for us.

2 Corinthians 5:21 “For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Jesus was also a sign of the curse, because he was made a curse for us.
Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:”

Let’s look for all the ingredients we saw in the other examples from our other study above of the curse. For instance the Holy waterrepresents the Living waters of God’s Word, and "the dust "represents the flesh= Word made "flesh". John 1:14 “And the Word was "made flesh", and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”

You also see that similitude with water and blood in John 19:34 “But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out "blood and water.” (dust + water)

So Jesus coming in the likeness of "sinful flesh"and taking upon himself our sins became "the curse" for us, being made in the likeness of sinful flesh. Romans 8:3 “For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of "sinful flesh", and for "sin", condemned sin in the flesh:”

So again we see the similitude of Holy watersmixed with the dust (flesh and blood formed from dust). And also Jesus being "made a curse"for us. And we are to drink his blood and to eathis flesh, (but the kings of the earth eat the flesh of the harlot, and all the world is made drunk on her wine)

But what about the signs of "the fire" and the eating of "the flesh" of the Lamb, and "the bitterness" we saw in the other examples?

This is also shown as well in scripture, and in the ordinance of feast of Passover Lamb….

Exodus 12:5-8 “ Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
7 And they shall take of "the blood", and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein "they shall eat it".8 And "they shall eat the flesh" in that night, "roast with fire", and unleavened bread; and with "bitter" herbs they shall eat it.”

There it is again, all the elements we saw in the other similitudes. This may be too deep for some to grasp, but to me it shows how God has woven this great mystery all throughout the history of mankind, even from the very beginning. What an awesome work the Lord has done, praise God!

And finally in the Revelation we see an end to the curse....

Revelation 22:3 “And there shall be "no more curse": but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:”

Be good and be blessed, Peace

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Anyone resurrected unto bodily immortality after that, which will be those who are Christ's at His coming, are part of the next resurrection in the order Paul gave. Christ's resurrection itself was the first resurrection.

What Amils are trying to do is redefine what “the first resurrection“ means in Rev. 20:4-6.

These verses below are not about Jesus being resurrected almost 2,000 years ago. It is about the dead in Christ being resurrected at the last day.

Revelation 20:4-6

King James Version

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4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”

Amils are handling the word of God deceitfully in order to push a false doctrine. They are adding to, and taking away from the prophecy that is written above. Let the plagues be upon those who add to and take from the words of this prophecy!

Revelation 22:18-19

King James Version

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18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What Amils are trying to do is redefine what “the first resurrection“ means in Rev. 20:4-6.

No, we're going by how it is defined elsewhere in scripture, which obviously is of no concern to you. You have already proven that you have no problem causing one scripture passage to contradict other passages like how you cause Isaiah 65:17-25 to contradict Revelation 21:1-4 and 2 Peter 3:13.

These verses below are not about Jesus being resurrected almost 2,000 years ago. It is about the dead in Christ being resurrected at the last day.

They're about the souls of the dead in Christ reigning in heaven with Him because they had spiritually had part in Christ's resurrection, which is the first resurrection.

Acts 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

Revelation 20:4-6​

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King James Version​

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4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”

Amils are handling the word of God deceitfully in order to push a false doctrine. They are adding to, and taking away from the prophecy that is written above. Let the plagues be upon those who add to and take from the words of this prophecy!

Revelation 22:18-19​

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King James Version​

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18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

This is nothing more than foolish nonsense to try to apply those verses to us just because we disagree with your interpretation of Revelation 20. Our interpretation is how we honestly interpret it because we take ALL of scripture into account. That passage you quoted is talking about people purposely adding to or taking away from the book, which we are not doing. You have so little discernment, that you can't even discern that it's talking about people purposely doing that and does not apply to people who mistakenly misinterpret the book. If we're wrong, then it's certainly not because we are purposely trying to add or take away from the book. May God have mercy on your soul for condemning us like this when He does not.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Time no longer for this world/age.

Luke 20:34-36​

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King James Version​

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34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

Read that carefully. The next age, which will be ushered in when the resurrection of the dead occurs, will be eternal. There will be no more death at that point ("neither can they die any more") and no more marriage. In this temporal age, people get married and they die. In the eternal age to come, people will no longer die or get married.

 

[Beebster]

Do you know what the book of Psalms is in the word of God?

It's rude to answer a question with a question so I'll ask again:
Are you saying because it's "the song of King David" it's not the Word of God?

Let me ask this way so there's no confusion:
Do you believe the Psalms to be the inspired Word of God?

The soul is of God. God does not die.

No one said God Dies. But the Word of God says man dies. And Jesus was a man who died both body and soul:

Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make HIS SOUL (nephesh) an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. (Isa 53:10)

So yes Christ died, both body and soul.

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him FROM THE DEAD, thou shalt be saved. (Rom10:9)

Most Christians don't believe this in their heart. They believe his body died and his soul was either in paradise or some fairy tale hellhole preaching to the "living dead."

In Hebrew "nephesh" means "soul" and "rauch" means "spirit."

Ecclesiastes 12:7 And the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

And the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit (RAUCH - not nephesh) returns to God who gave it.

Genesis 2:7 Then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul (NEPHESH - not rauch).

Job 33:4 The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

The Spirit (RAUCH - not nephesh) of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

Do you know what happens when God takes that Spirit back?

You are no longer a living soul; you are dead; body and soul.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Why would I care about that?

But some are resurrected 1,000 years after others.

The passage does not claim, as some suppose, the cessation of time. It refers to the cessation of the delay.

Either way you look at it, it doesn't support premil. If it refers to the cessation of the delay, then it refers to the cessation of the delay for the dead to be judged (Rev 11:18). And the seventh trumpet signals the time for the dead to be judged.

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

When are the dead judged? After the thousand years. We all agree the following occurs after the thousand years.

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every one according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

This sign is also shown again in the "bitter"waters that brings forth "the curse", in the law, when a wife was thought to have slept with another man and played the “Harlot” (clue…wink, wink). And so a test was given by the Priest when there were no witnesses to the act of "fornication".

The law of jealousies. I still say this test in Numbers 5 relates to Romans 7. Yes…the wife is there thought to have slept with another man and played the “Harlot” …but there is another outcome of who drinks of the bitter water and is pronounced clean.
Numbers 5:28-29 And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed. [29] This is the law of jealousies, when a wife goes aside to another instead of her husband, and is defiled; -Romans 7:3 So then if, while her husband lives she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, you also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that you should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

This test was given by making her to drink the "bitter waters". Also notice what was added to the "holy waters" in Numbers 5:17 “And the priest shall take "holy water" in an earthen vessel; and of "the dust" (key word) that is in the floor of the tabernacle the priest shall take, and put it "into" the water:” (again dust +water)

To me it’s significant is “and the priest “holy water” …. in and earthen vessel…of the dust of the tabernacle floor and put it into the water…
Hebrews 10:5 Wherefore when he comes into the world, he said, Sacrifice and offering you would not, but a body have you prepared me:

Significant is (Imo) “the dust” taken from the tabernacle floor with when Jesus Christ told John the Baptist that he must be (Put in the water) baptized of water.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

And this Mother of Harlots is drunk on "blood"(flesh and blood from "the dust")

Still think the Lords Table is where some go away drunken …drinking damnation down not discerning the Lords body. Whatever that means it’s real …I think. A drunken state made manifest then and now. Significant to me is “be Sober.”

 

[Biblepaige]

It's rude to answer a question with a question so I'll ask again:
Are you saying because it's "the song of King David" it's not the Word of God?

No,it isn't rude at all. I think someone implying the Psalms don't qualify as an answer to the question of destruction of a soul is rude.

Let me ask this way so there's no confusion:
Do you believe the Psalms to be the inspired Word of God?

No one said God Dies. But the Word of God says man dies. And Jesus was a man who died both body and soul:

Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make HIS SOUL (nephesh) an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. (Isa 53:10)

No,the Songs (Psalms) of King David are an anthology of David's and others poems.

So yes Christ died, both body and soul.

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him FROM THE DEAD, thou shalt be saved. (Rom10:9)

Jesus was God. God cannot die. The Jews who saw him crucified knew crucifixion ended life. Jesus had told them he was the father. When he died in the cross before their eyes they thought he was dead as was everyone else who died by crucifixion.

When he resurrected three days later they knew he was not a man who died. He was Lord,God,the father.

Most Christians don't believe this in their heart. They believe his body died and his soul was either in paradise or some fairy tale hellhole preaching to the "living dead."

In Hebrew "nephesh" means "soul" and "rauch" means "spirit."


And the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit (RAUCH - not nephesh) returns to God who gave it.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul (NEPHESH - not rauch).

The Spirit (RAUCH - not nephesh) of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

Do you know what happens when God takes that Spirit back?

You are no longer a living soul; you are dead; body and soul.

Jesus was God.

All that you wrote above applies to mortals. Not the God, the word made flesh who dwelt among us.

 

[Beebster]

No,it isn't rude at all. I think someone implying the Psalms don't qualify as an answer to the question of destruction of a soul is rude.
No,the Songs (Psalms) of King David are an anthology of David's and others poems.

You deny that the Psalms are the inspired Word of god yet, you'll try to use the "anthology of David's and others poems" to prove :

He's looking toward the future when Christ reigns on earth and everyone who is redeemed in him shall feast regardless of status in this life.

For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell (sheol); neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (Psa 16:10)

Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell (hades), neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (Act 2:27)

That's the Word of God whether you believe it or not.

Jesus was God.

Jesus Christ certainly is God, but he is not "the Father". And though he is "our Father" and was the first of God's creation (and is still being created) he emptied himself to die for us.

God cannot die.

God the Father certainly can't but the son surely did die.

The Jews who saw him crucified knew crucifixion ended life.

So did everyone else.

Jesus had told them he was the father.

No he said:

Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? (Jn 14:9)

So ask yourself, how did they see him?

When he died in the cross before their eyes they thought he was dead as was everyone else who died by crucifixion.

They thought he was dead because he was dead.

When he resurrected three days later they knew he was not a man who died. He was Lord,God,the father.

I'm gonna say he was resurrected about a day and a half later.

Jesus was God.

All that you wrote above applies to mortals.

And Jesus was mortal:

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made himself of no reputation (keenoo heautou - emtied himself), and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
And being found in fashion as a man (mortal), he humbled himself, and became obedient unto DEATH, even the
DEATH of the cross. (Php 2:6-8)

Not the God, the word made flesh who dwelt among us.

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of DEATH, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste DEATH for every man. (Heb 2:9)

You are denying this:

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him FROM THE DEAD, thou shalt be saved. (Rom10:9)

 

[TribulationSigns]

Basically you’re right but Paul is actually telling us our souls are resurrected.

In Christ! When you are born again. Our souls have been resurrected within our body of death (flesh) the moment we accept Christ as our savior. We are "resurrected" from the spiritual death that we got from Adam and Eve. Selah!

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Read that carefully. The next age, which will be ushered in when the resurrection of the dead occurs, will be eternal.

Which proves Amil is false doctrine.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Still think the Lords Table is where some go away drunken …drinking damnation down not discerning the Lords body. Whatever that means it’s real …I think. A drunken state made manifest then and now. Significant to me is “be Sober.”

Drunkenness in scripture is not always with literal wine….

Isaiah 19:14
The Lord hath mingled a perverse spirit in the midst thereof: and they have caused Egypt to err in every work thereof, as a drunken manstaggereth in his vomit.

Isaiah 29:9
Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink.

Isaiah 49:26
And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine: and all flesh shall know that I the Lord am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.

Isaiah 51:21
Therefore hear now this, thou afflicted, and drunken, but not with wine:

 

[TribulationSigns]

Being born again is not a bodily resurrection.

Of course, being born again is NOT a bodily resurrection!

1st Corinthians 15:22

• "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."

All are made alive in Christ's First Resurrection. From Adam to the Last Elect in humankind. None of the bodies that were in the grave and released by an earthquake, went into heaven. The physical earthly bodies of men do NOT go into heaven. That's an impossibility. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom. And that includes dead smelly dusty flesh. A person must be changed, put off that body, leave it in the grave in order to enter into heaven. Period!

As for Corinthians, I do not say that the passage is not difficult. But you misunderstand what is stated. It clearly states Christ was risen from the dead and become the firstfruits of them that slept. Thus Christ is the Firstfruits, and we are firstfruits only in His resurrection. Not just a few bodies, all of us. So the obvious question concerning the verse is, when are we made alive? When are we become firstfruits in this context? Is it at the end of the world, or now as we have been raised up in Christ? Each man must answer that for himself.

1st Corinthians 15:22-23

• "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
• But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming."

We have to read this circumspectly. EXACTLY when we're all dead in Adam? That's an easy answer. And having understood that, the question then is "exactly" when were we all made alive in Christ? Every man in his own order! Answer that Biblically and you'll understand why Christ had to have preeminence, had to be the Firstbegotten from the dead, and how we are born again from the dead after Him, but according to that very same First Resurrection. ....IN HIM! CLEARLY, we aren't made alive at the last day, at the judgment day, but when we become saved by having the firstfruits of the Spirit come to dwell within us. We are "ALL," every man, made alive, in his own order. Paul 2000 years ago, King James in 1300AD, Martha two years ago, and Frankie this year. We are all made alive in our own order. And its not to "wait until Christ's second coming to be made alive" or resurrected firstfruits.

Matthew 16:28

• "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

How do they see the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom before they physically dead? They indeed are firstfruits in order, Christ first in all things. Thus, in Christ Shall All Men Be made Alive, and they don't have to wait for their physical death or even the second coming. For His Kingdom has come, and His will "will" be done, on earth, as it is in heaven. Right within us!

Luke 17:20-21

• And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
• Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

The Kingdom of God is within you when you are BORN AGAIN, right when you are made alive!

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

All are made alive in Christ's First Resurrection.

Not ALL were even born yet when Jesus was resurrected, so that is nonsense.

 

[CadyandZoe]

No, we're going by how it is defined elsewhere in scripture, which obviously is of no concern to you

Since your "definition" makes no sense of the immediate context, it is inaccurate.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Either way you look at it, it doesn't support premil. If it refers to the cessation of the delay, then it refers to the cessation of the delay for the dead to be judged (Rev 11:18). And the seventh trumpet signals the time for the dead to be judged.

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth

Chapter 10 discusses the seventh trumpet, and Chapter 11 discusses the judgment. Your interpretation overlooks a change in subject and ignores much other information.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Drunkenness in scripture is not always with literal wine….

Do you have verses where you say it’s literal drunkenness? Because I did I word search on “drunk” to see where the word is used. every verse I found makes just as much, if not more, sense to be speaking of the same “drunkenness” as you pointed out those verses speak of. A weak, deceived—not able to see straight nature. A long term “drunken state” that impairs one’s ability being not (yet)of: God has given unto you the Spirit of power, of love, and of a sound Mind. Like Legion. It’s either the mind is sound or it’s not…if the mind is not sound, then is it made drunken, growing worse and worse.

Yes, can you give me a verse where to be drunk is literal? because the thread on “drunkenness” follows a spiritual needing to be made sober. (Imo) even when they blamed Jesus Christ for being a drunkard and a glutton …it is all the other verses that help with what exactly they were blaming Him for. Over eating? Drinking alcohol? They may have thought so, but they were the ones guilty of “over eating” and “drunkenness” which to me means what they thought of as over eating and drinking too much …they missed the point that they were the ones over eating and drinking to much. See …He warned them of how they over eat and drink too much. They could have baulked at Him and said “when have you seen us put a bottle of alcohol to our mouths? When have we over eat? When have we become drunk… like the drunks and gluttons?” yes they spoke literal? He on the other hand saw very clearly they were those who over eat and drink too much. So much did they over eat and drink too much…being in excesses that others went thirsty and hungry (again not literal)

 

[VictoryinJesus]

This test was given by making her to drink the "bitter waters". Also notice what was added to the "holy waters" in Numbers 5:17 “And the priest shall take "holy water" in an earthen vessel; and of "the dust" (key word) that is in the floor of the tabernacle the priest shall take, and put it "into" the water:” (again dust +water)
And so there’s the sign again of "the curse" in eating the “dust”. (man = flesh and blood formed from the dust of the ground). By the way Adam also means “earthy, red.”

You didn’t reply on Numbers 5, the law of jealousies. It’s key I think. You spoke of types, or shadows? Do you see Christ in Numbers 5? Do we see it as a type or shadow of the good news in Romans 7? How by the body of Christ she is no longer bound to the law of jealousies of her husband and is made free to marry another, (called no more an adulterous woman) even He who raised from the dead, to bring forth Fruit (children) unto God? It important also I think regarding end times …because of whether God is coming as the Jealous husband to destroy the Harlot, who is guilty of adultery.
Hebrews 10:25-27 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. [26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, [27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Romans 7 tells us it’s that old law where one is stoned …Romans 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
^that answers a lot about end times…
First: that the man of sin be revealed (but sin, that it might appear, working death in me by “that which is good”)
Second: was then that which was good made death unto me?
This is what people say about end times: that which was good is made death…to most except for a few spared.
Weird how the Revelation of Jesus Christ it’s either the good news…or it’s the bad news.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Romans 7 tells us it’s that old law where one is stoned

First: that the man of sin be revealed (but sin, that it might appear, working death in me by “that which is good”)
Second: was then that which was good made death unto me?

Numbers 5 the adulterous woman caught going after another man, bound to the law of jealousies of her husband …by the body of Jesus Christ she has been loosed being called no more an adulterous woman …but they still wait for the law of jealousies of her husband to return and punish the woman caught in adultery …where Christ wrote in the ground and told them “him who is without sin cast the first stone…”

Revelation 16:21 And great hailstones, about one hundred pounds each, fell from heaven on people; and they cursed God for the plague of the hail, because the plague was so severe.