Is the first resurrection physical or spiritual?

[tailgator]

See post #54

See the word of God.


them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[rwb]

Is the first resurrection mentioned in Revelation 20:4-6 a physical bodily resurrection or spiritual?

When we read of the "first resurrection" it is ALWAYS the bodily resurrection of Christ! Because it is through His resurrection life that mankind MUST have part in to overcome the second death, and in fact the only way to both know and enter the (spiritual) Kingdom of God!

Christ is not only the "FIRST RESURRECTION" from the physically dead to immortal life, but His spirit is also the first to return to the Father after His body died.

Luke 23:46 (KJV) And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

This is how the gates of heaven are now opened for all who have part in the "first resurrection" through the life and death of Christ. By making atonement for sin, and defeating death, Christ made the way to heaven open. That's why before ascending to heaven Christ first descended into the place of the dead to set free those who before His coming had been spiritually held in bondage to the grave. Christ took them with Him through His Spirit, and having access to heaven they are now the spiritual body of believers there.

Ephesians 4:8-10 (KJV) Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

The problem premillennialists have is an inability to understand things they cannot see! You're preoccupied with flesh and seem to think that unless man is bodily resurrected after death, they have not had part in the "first resurrection" that is not physical but spiritual.

 

[tailgator]

You overlook the phrase "hath part." This is the condition to experiencing eternal life. The Greek for “that hath part” is echo méros. The Greek verb echo correctly interpreted “that hath” in the King James Version is written in the present tense and in the active voice. Therefore, we can view the relevance and vitality of “the first resurrection” as being both current and ongoing. Christ’s victory over death is not simply a past event that has no active bearing upon what we are today; it is ongoing reality in the lives of God’s people. The Greek word translated “part” in the text is the word meros meaning share, allotment or portion. This reading tells us that all those that have come to the joy of saving faith in Christ have become partakers in the resurrection life, and through this will escape the horrors of the second death – eternal wrath.

This passage is describing the reality and result of our mystical union with Christ. The expression “in Christ” [Gr. en Christo] is found 216 times in the New Testament and refers to our federal and covenantal standing. It shows us that our spiritual status is totally derived from and dependent upon relationship with Christ. Upon salvation we are united to Christ. He is the head we are the body. The blessing, decisions and authority come through the head.

Hath part means them who are beheaded for their witness of Jesus ,who take part in this first resurection do not suffer a second death .
They already died once when they are beheaded for their witness of Jesus.


Revelation 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[rwb]

That is what I thought ya’ll believe. But being renewed in the spirit of your mind is not the same as being physically resurrected from the dead as was with Jesus.

Why do you believe that a man MUST be bodily resurrected to life, only to die again? Because that would be the result for any human physically resurrected to life again before the last trumpet announces resurrection to immortal & incorruptible bodily life? Your doctrine imagines some of mankind shall be bodily resurrected before the last trumpet sounds??? Your doctrine denies logic!

 

[rwb]

True, but the problem is Amils can’t tell the difference between the two. The first resurrection mentioned in Rev20:4-6 is not about being born again, it is about the bodily resurrection of the dead in Christ.

The problem with Premil is you cannot tell the difference between a bodily resurrection to life again, and THE bodily resurrection immortal & incorruptible that shall not be until the last trumpet sounds. You have people being resurrected again only to die again! Because without immortal & incorruptible resurrected body, man shall die again!

 

[rwb]

Again a renewed spirit is not the same as a resurrected physical body.

Explain the purpose for this imagined first bodily resurrection again that shall come before the last trumpet sounds???

 

[rwb]

The word of God says them who take part in the first resurection were beheaded for their witness of Jesus
They are martyrs,like Stephen.

"them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God"


Revelation 20

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

When were these saints martyred? They were faithful unto death because in life before they died, they "lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." Are you too implying these faithful saints would be bodily resurrected to life again, only to die again? That is what must happen because NONE shall be bodily resurrected IMMORTAL & INCORRUPTIBLE until the last trumpet sounds!

 

[rwb]

Hath part means them who are beheaded for their witness of Jesus ,who take part in this first resurection do not suffer a second death .
They already died once when they are beheaded for their witness of Jesus.

In life they had part in the first resurrection and died for their faithfulness! That's how we know "a thousand years" is not ONE thousand years to come, but symbolically represents time in which they lived in faith. They died once, they won't be resurrected bodily only to die again! But they shall not be immortal & incorruptible until the last trumpet sounds! So they MUST die again if they are bodily resurrected before the time (last trumpet) when faithful mankind shall be resurrected immortal! Without immortality NONE can live forever!

 

[tailgator]

When were these saints martyred? They were faithful unto death because in life before they died, they "lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." Are you too implying these faithful saints would be bodily resurrected to life again, only to die again? That is what must happen because NONE shall be bodily resurrected IMMORTAL & INCORRUPTIBLE until the last trumpet sounds!

These saints who are resurected for their testimony of Jesus in revelation 20 have not died yet .


They die not long before Jesus comes.They are resurected at the sound of the seventh Trump.Same time the beast who kills them is cast into a lake of fire.

 

[tailgator]

In life they had part in the first resurrection and died for their faithfulness! That's how we know "a thousand years" is not ONE thousand years to come, but symbolically represents time in which they lived in faith. They died once, they won't be resurrected bodily only to die again! But they shall not be immortal & incorruptible until the last trumpet sounds! So they MUST die again if they are bodily resurrected before the time (last trumpet) when faithful mankind shall be resurrected immortal! Without immortality NONE can live forever!

False,they are resurected after they are killed for their testimony of Jesus.
They are beheaded before they are resurected from the dead.

Revelation 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[rwb]

These saints who are resurected for their testimony of Jesus in revelation 20 have not died yet .


They die not long before Jesus comes.They are resurected at the sound of the seventh Trump.Same time the beast who kills them is cast into a lake of fire.

Not only does your reply lack logic, it also lacks biblical proof! Prove what you allege!

 

[rwb]

False,they are resurected after they are killed for their testimony of Jesus.
They are beheaded before they are resurected from the dead.

Revelation 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

It's fruitless to reply to one's opinions! Prove what you allege!

 

[tailgator]

Not only does your reply lack logic, it also lacks biblical proof! Prove what you allege!

Here it is.


4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[tailgator]

It's fruitless to reply to one's opinions! Prove what you allege!

Word of God proof

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[rwb]

Here it is.


4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

This passage fails to prove what you allege! John sees martyred saints after "they LIVED (past tense) and REIGNED (past tense) with Christ a (not ONE) thousand years." You have them being bodily resurrected so they can live and reign with Christ ONE thousand years! Only to die again because none shall be immortal before the last trumpet sounds. And when the seventh (last) trumpet sounds, there will not be more time, because then "time shall be no longer."

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

 

[tailgator]

This passage fails to prove what you allege! John sees martyred saints after "they LIVED (past tense) and REIGNED (past tense) with Christ a (not ONE) thousand years." You have them being bodily resurrected so they can live and reign with Christ ONE thousand years! Only to die again because none shall be immortal before the last trumpet sounds. And when the seventh (last) trumpet sounds, there will not be more time, because then "time shall be no longer."

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

John saw alot of things (past tense)

He saw Gog and Magog surround those resurected saints (past tense)

John saw New Jerusalem coming down from heaven 2000 years ago(past tense).

John saw the seventh Trump being blown(past tense)


John saw a lot of things 2000 years ago ,that doesnt mean all those things are already fulfilled as you believe.

Fact is ,the saints who are beheaded for their witness of Jesus and who do not worship the beast or it's image nor receive it's mark,have not died yet.

They are the last to be killed for their witness of Jesus ,and they shall be first.

 

[tailgator]

This passage fails to prove what you allege! John sees martyred saints after "they LIVED (past tense) and REIGNED (past tense) with Christ a (not ONE) thousand years." You have them being bodily resurrected so they can live and reign with Christ ONE thousand years! Only to die again because none shall be immortal before the last trumpet sounds. And when the seventh (last) trumpet sounds, there will not be more time, because then "time shall be no longer."

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Revelation 19:15-John saw Jesus coming with the armies of heaven(past tense)

Revelation 19:20-John saw the beast and false prophet cast into a lake of fire.(,past tense,)

Revelation 20:4-John saw them who were beheaded for their witness of Jesus and who did not worship the beast ,or recieve it's mark,resurected.(Past tense)

Revelation 20:John saw those resurected saints reign with Christ for 1000 years.(Past tense,)

John saw Gog invades their kingdom and fire come down from heaven and devoured Gog.(Past tense,)



John saw(past tense,) these things in this order almost 2000 years.
None of these things have been fulfilled yet.

 

[rwb]

John saw alot of things (past tense)

He saw Gog and Magog surround those resurected saints (past tense)

John saw New Jerusalem coming down from heaven 2000 years ago(past tense).

John saw the seventh Trump being blown(past tense)


John saw a lot of things 2000 years ago ,that doesnt mean all those things are already fulfilled as you believe.

Fact is ,the saints who are beheaded for their witness of Jesus and who do not worship the beast or it's image nor receive it's mark,have not died yet.

They are the last to be killed for their witness of Jesus ,and they shall be first.

John saw souls alive after they had died! You have them resurrected for one thousand years only to die again because they shall not have immortality until the last trumpet sounds! Why? Because you are consumed with the physical, while John sees souls spiritually alive in heaven AFTER having lived and reigned with Christ in life for a thousand years (symbolizing time when they have lived and reigned).

 

[Marty fox]

See the word of God.


them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

So did the ones in Matthew 27 not rise?

It you want to be literal will other martyrs who are Killed by the beast in other ways not rise and reign with Jesus?

We have to use common sense sometimes

 

[rwb]

Revelation 19:15-John saw Jesus coming with the armies of heaven(past tense)

Revelation 19:20-John saw the beast and false prophet cast into a lake of fire.(,past tense,)

Revelation 20:4-John saw them who were beheaded for their witness of Jesus and who did not worship the beast ,or recieve it's mark,resurected.(Past tense)

Revelation 20:John saw those resurected saints reign with Christ for 1000 years.(Past tense,)

John saw Gog invades their kingdom and fire come down from heaven and devoured Gog.(Past tense,)



John saw(past tense,) these things in this order almost 2000 years.
None of these things have been fulfilled yet.

John is given VISIONS of things that come to pass in TIME! You wish to re-direct the discussion because you cannot answer how these souls can be alive after they have been martyred during their lives which is "a thousand years", not ONE thousand years as you imagine!