Is Reincarnation baloney?

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Waiting on him

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@St. SteVen
Maybe this will help clarify?

I don’t see myself as having ever been affiliated with the Old Testament flesh. I was never a practicing Jew under mosaic law. I was born under Luther which now is in my opinion kinda like a cocktail of Judaism/pagan Rome,with a dash of misunderstood Christianity.

Hope this helps.
 
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Waiting on him

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I like this.... much more presentable on a charcuterie board.

There are a couple of image/concepts that are helpful to get a better 'picture' of the principle of rebirth. For whatever reason, even though scripture is explicit in supplying the example of a seed that has life within it, falls, dies, is planted in the ground and lives again-- that's not the only illustration to point toward.

We have also the example recorded by Moses that comes in the form of the story of Jacob and that ladder he sees in spirit--- with the angels ascending and descending. @QuantumBit wants to call this DNA, and I don't actually have a problem with that association in that you can make the connection he does between biology and this spiritual dimension, where one is an image of the other-- angels are messengers after all, and the seed is the word, is the spirit, the son, the logos--- made flesh.

In fact God says so, even in this specific example of the coming down and going up of these 'angels' that Jacob sees in his vision.... relating what Jacob sees to his seed.

And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed; And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

Of course our physical DNA doesn't fall from above or ascend to the heavens when we die, and this is where Qbit's model breaks down immediately, but I applaud his observation here nonetheless. It's a worthy recognition of the image, much better than what Moses thought and the unauthorized copy he made of those spiritual things he saw.

A much simpler example is the process of rainfall. I won't bother explaining how evaporation and condensation work since we all covered that in grade school. Rain falls from above, runs it's course and eventually ascends again in a never-ending cycle. These cycles and circles of descending and ascending are examples and parallels of this principle of rebirth-- the continuation of life (life cycles) or life everlasting, which apart from interruption continues eternally-- by design. We even call 'our seed' -descendants. Our fruit, our family tree.

As Qbit says-- it's all VERY biblical.
I’ve noticed a pattern that ever thing in this reality follows birth-growth-entropy-death, then the cycle begins anew. It’s viewed in our conception, the seasons, sleep cycles, the daily cycle. Over and over.
 

St. SteVen

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The book of Moses is still read today, and the vail is still present in those reading it. See Moses had the light of God shine into his darkness but the light was incomprehensible.

The vail which was Jesus flesh had to be rent as stated in Hebrews. This was/is the way in

A new living way through the vail- his flesh.

The arc in the temple Was Moses dark understanding and was representing the heart of man.
Your post seems contradictory. Could you clarify? Thanks.

First you write, "Moses had the light of God shine into his darkness but the light was incomprehensible."
Then you write, "The arc in the temple Was Moses dark understanding and was representing the heart of man."

Didn't God provide the building plans for the Ark of the Covenant? Darkness?
The law was an incomprehensible light? I suppose I agree on some level.

I like what the Apostle writes about the Ten Commandments in the scripture below.
Assuming the TCs were "engraved in letters on stone".

The TCs were the transitory ministry of condemnation and death that has no glory now.
Other than that... good stuff. - LOL

2 Corinthians 3:7-11 NIV
Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone,
came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory,
transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?
9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious,
how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!
10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory.
11 And if what was transitory came with glory,
how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
 

St. SteVen

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I’ve noticed a pattern that ever thing in this reality follows birth-growth-entropy-death, then the cycle begins anew. It’s viewed in our conception, the seasons, sleep cycles, the daily cycle. Over and over.
That seems to support reincarnation on some level. Unless I am misunderstanding you.
 
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St. SteVen

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@St. SteVen
Maybe this will help clarify?

I don’t see myself as having ever been affiliated with the Old Testament flesh. I was never a practicing Jew under mosaic law. I was born under Luther which now is in my opinion kinda like a cocktail of Judaism/pagan Rome,with a dash of misunderstood Christianity.

Hope this helps.
Don't drink the Kool-Aid. - LOL
 

Waiting on him

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@Mr E

When you were in the loins of your father you were something something totally different than what you are now. There were millions of others similar to you when the race began. But only one received the prize. Some were burnt up in the heat off the day while others became complacent and fell to the wayside.

You persevered and became something new/ a new creation the moment you entered the egg. Good job!

You then were born and have grown and absorbed knowledge,,, I have no idea of your age but now you may be entering the entropy stage. Unfortunately the next step will be death. Depending on what stage you are in.

Don’t be discouraged there will be a new birth into something greater.
 

Waiting on him

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Your post seems contradictory. Could you clarify? Thanks.

First you write, "Moses had the light of God shine into his darkness but the light was incomprehensible."
Then you write, "The arc in the temple Was Moses dark understanding and was representing the heart of man."

Didn't God provide the building plans for the Ark of the Covenant? Darkness?
The law was an incomprehensible light? I suppose I agree on some level.

I like what the Apostle writes about the Ten Commandments in the scripture below.
Assuming the TCs were "engraved in letters on stone".

The TCs were the transitory ministry of condemnation and death that has no glory now.
Other than that... good stuff. - LOL

2 Corinthians 3:7-11 NIV
Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone,
came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory,
transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?
9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious,
how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!
10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory.
11 And if what was transitory came with glory,
how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
Moses’s heart was vailed he penned a carnal understanding in my opinion of the vision God gave him, and the vision to him was a shadow of the temple of God a crucified Christ. God told him not to make a pattern.

Read Saint Steven in acts chapter 7 he clarified what their tabernacle was.
 
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Waiting on him

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2 Corinthians 5:16 KJV
[16] Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
 

Mr E

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The Jews of that age were born into Judaism. The flesh the Christian converts were separated from was their ancestors religious system of works.

They became the new flesh as Jesus was the first separated by God. This was the first circumcising without hands. According to Moses Abram was told to circumcise himself. I don’t believe that to be the conversation the Almighty and Abram had. I believe it was more along the lines of Him telling Abram that he was gonna separate Jesus from their flesh. What does Abram do according to Moses he takes matters into his own hands and removes the fore skin from his petis.


This whole reincarnation thing to me is merely first century Jews dying to the law and being born anew too God.

Here's the problem..... we have stories and we have stories about stories. Moses, with his perspective-- telling us stories. What would shape his perspective? He was born a Hebrew, but raised (and educated) in Pharaoh's house. He would have learned history and science, mathematics and writing, biology and theology rooted in the Egyptian understanding. His formative years presumably included some level of influence from his biological mother, who Pharaoh's daughter hired to be his nurse/nanny. His older sister Miriam and his older brother Aaron seemed to have maintained perhaps some level of connection and contact, so perhaps through those influences he was exposed to the Hebrew stories-- the history he later records for us in the form of those 'books of Moses' -- but let's never forget.... those are what would be better referred to with names like-- "The book of origins-- or Genesis, according to Moses" -the way we say the gospel according to Luke.

Moses sees visions. Heavenly things. God says specifically in spirit--- 'Make no copies of anything you see in spirit' --He commands against it. --Moses makes earthly copies of everything heavenly he has seen. He takes and makes physical representations of everything he is shown in spirit and he takes everything in the most literal way--- everything that is, except God's command to NOT do this.

Abram does the same thing... In spirit he sees this cutting away of flesh in the most graphic depiction, and rather than understanding it as an expression of a spiritual concept (as all things seen in spirit must be understood) -- he copies what he saw in spirit and removes his foreskin, because that's how the concept was expressed.

In this way we end up with animal sacrifice-- because that's how a spiritual concept was expressed-- lambs and rams and bulls and doves. But scripture informs us and over time we learn that those spiritual things are not physical. We learn to think a different way regarding these concepts, and like Daniel we develop an understanding of what these things really represent. We learn to interpret the concept, rather than fall into the error of so many who have gone before and attempted to recreate spiritual ideas in physical objectifying... what God calls idolatry.
 
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Waiting on him

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Here's the problem..... we have stories and we have stories about stories. Moses, with his perspective-- telling us stories. What would shape his perspective? He was born a Hebrew, but raised (and educated) in Pharaoh's house. He would have learned history and science, mathematics and writing, biology and theology rooted in the Egyptian understanding. His formative years presumably included some level of influence from his biological mother, who Pharaoh's daughter hired to be his nurse/nanny. His older sister Miriam and his older brother Aaron seemed to have maintained perhaps some level of connection and contact, so perhaps through those influences he was exposed to the Hebrew stories-- the history he later records for us in the form of those 'books of Moses' -- but let's never forget.... those are what would be better referred to with names like-- "The book of origins-- or Genesis, according to Moses" -the way we say the gospel according to Luke.

Moses sees visions. Heavenly things. God says specifically in spirit--- 'Make no copies of anything you see in spirit' --He commands against it. --Moses makes earthly copies of everything heavenly he has seen. He takes and makes physical representations of everything he is shown in spirit and he takes everything in the most literal way--- everything that is, except God's command to NOT do this.

Abram does the same thing... In spirit he sees this cutting away of flesh in the most graphic depiction, and rather than understanding it as an expression of a spiritual concept (as all things seen in spirit must be understood) -- he copies what he saw in spirit and removes his foreskin, because that's how the concept was expressed.

In this way we end up with animal sacrifice-- because that's how a spiritual concept was expressed-- lambs and rams and bulls and doves. But scripture informs us and over time we learn that those spiritual things are not physical. We learn to think a different way regarding these concepts, and like Daniel we develop an understanding of what these things really represent. We learn to interpret the concept, rather than fall into the error of so many who have gone before and attempted to recreate spiritual ideas in physical objectifying... what God calls idolatry.
Agreed, like the GIF, I shared God says make no graven images, and Moses is holding engraved stones.
 
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St. SteVen

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Moses’s heart was vailed he penned a carnal understanding in my opinion of the vision God gave him, and the vision to him was a shadow of the temple of God a crucified Christ. God told him not to make a pattern.
God told him not to make a pattern? Can you provide a reference?
Read Saint Steven in acts chapter 7 he clarified what their tabernacle was.
That's interesting.
This bit stood out to me. What do they call church buildings now? (the house of God)

Acts 7:48-50 NIV
“However, the Most High does not live in houses made by human hands.
As the prophet says:
49 “‘Heaven is my throne,
and the earth is my footstool.
What kind of house will you build for me?
says the Lord.
Or where will my resting place be?
50 Has not my hand made all these things?’[a]
 
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Waiting on him

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God told him not to make a pattern? Can you provide a reference?

That's interesting.
This bit stood out to me. What do they call church buildings now? (the house of God)

Acts 7:48-50 NIV
“However, the Most High does not live in houses made by human hands.
As the prophet says:
49 “‘Heaven is my throne,
and the earth is my footstool.
What kind of house will you build for me?
says the Lord.
Or where will my resting place be?
50 Has not my hand made all these things?’[a]
Yeah hearts circumcised by His hands.
 

Waiting on him

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God told him not to make a pattern? Can you provide a reference?

That's interesting.
This bit stood out to me. What do they call church buildings now? (the house of God)

Acts 7:48-50 NIV
“However, the Most High does not live in houses made by human hands.
As the prophet says:
49 “‘Heaven is my throne,
and the earth is my footstool.
What kind of house will you build for me?
says the Lord.
Or where will my resting place be?
50 Has not my hand made all these things?’[a]
One reference would be, God told him no graven images, and he’s holding a set of tablets allegedly engraved by God?
 

Mr E

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So, if we extend that thought, what do we do with the virgin birth being a sign?
This even appears in the Creed. But that's another (dangerous) subject. - LOL

We have no problem recognizing that in Isaiah a sign was given for King Ahaz.... what was the sign? God told the King to ask for a miracle, so that he would know that what Isaiah was saying would surely come true, but the King refused to ask for a miracle.

So, instead of a miracle-- he was given a time marker. Here's your sign-- not a miracle, but quite natural and predictable.

The LORD again spoke to Ahaz: “Ask for a confirming sign from the LORD your God. You can even ask for something miraculous.” But Ahaz responded, “I don’t want to ask; I don’t want to put the LORD to a test.” So Isaiah replied, “Pay attention, family of David. Do you consider it too insignificant to try the patience of men? Is that why you are also trying the patience of my God?

For this reason the Lord himself will give you a confirming sign. Look, this young woman is about to conceive and will give birth to a son. You, young woman, will name him Immanuel. He will eat sour milk and honey, which will help him know how to reject evil and choose what is right. Here is why this will be so: Before the child knows how to reject evil and choose what is right, the land whose two kings you fear will be desolate. The LORD will bring on you, your people, and your father’s family a time unlike any since Ephraim departed from Judah—the king of Assyria!


Not a miracle. The virgin will conceive (and we know how conception occurs)-- and before the child that is born turns what-- three? -Assyria will come knocking.

But you need a little context. This sign that Isaiah was offering-- was itself, given to confirm a prophecy already given. The virgin (young woman will conceive and bear a son) was given specifically so that Ahaz could be confident that the prophecy would surely come to pass. What was the prophecy? -- It had a much longer expiration date>>

Within 65 years Ephraim will no longer exist as a nation. (Is 7:8)

The "sign" was given so that Ahaz would trust the prophecy. Something near-term to give him confidence in something long-term.
 

Mr E

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God told him not to make a pattern? Can you provide a reference?

That's interesting.
This bit stood out to me. What do they call church buildings now? (the house of God)

Acts 7:48-50 NIV
“However, the Most High does not live in houses made by human hands.
As the prophet says:
49 “‘Heaven is my throne,
and the earth is my footstool.
What kind of house will you build for me?
says the Lord.
Or where will my resting place be?
50 Has not my hand made all these things?’[a]

ummm.....? Ever heard of the ten commandments? Ex 20

It's number two on the list.... You might say- written in stone.

“You shall not make for yourself a carved image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above or that is on the earth beneath or that is in the water below. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I, the LORD, your God, am a jealous God, responding to the transgression of fathers by dealing with children to the third and fourth generations of those who reject me, and showing covenant faithfulness to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.