Is Reincarnation baloney?

[Mr E]

Not a Scripture verse in cite. (PUN intended)

So, your idea begins with an Appeal to Ignorance and dividing "us" from "the other." Who gets caught in the trap? "They". You would never get stuck in the trap of your beliefs are not true because you believe them, right?

Although YOU do not know what lies beyond the door, it could be X. X does not have to be in Scripture to be true either, right?

What a trip! What an anti-Scriptural trip.

I can certainly explain it to you and you can do with it whatever you like, but I won't waste any effort trying to convince you. You'll have to convince yourself.

Which brother (in my short story) lives in denial of truth? Which brother are you?

Eternal life, through the lens of scripture is by definition everlasting. Without end, but also without beginning-- the divine nature. One brother can foresee and foretaste a better world while the other brother has convinced himself that there is no after-life and that should their world of comfort be gone, they will be no more. What he sees as certain death, the other recognizes as a new beginning.

He recognizes that "birth" is both a new beginning and a continuation of Life, albeit in a better, broader, bigger sense.

Of death, Jesus taught-- it's like going to sleep. Just a temporary state that you awaken from to start a new day. You must be born again, the grave as @QuantumBit references, is through scripture understood to be also, the womb.

 

[Wrangler]

Eternal life, through the lens of scripture ... without beginning

PUL-EASE

 

[friend of]

I look at my life and I have it good compared to them. Not a single Christian has ever been able to explain why this is.

1 Corinthians 12:26 comes to mind.

The main passage of scripture that comes to mind when on the subject of reincarnation is when Paul stated "it is appointed for men to die once, after this the judgement."

How do you respond to Hebrews 9:27 @QuantumBit

 

[Wrangler]

See post #46

 

[QuantumBit]

@Mr E

I appreciate your posts. I have seen you on other threads bringing sanity to the insanity.

 

[QuantumBit]

1 Corinthians 12:26 comes to mind.

The main passage of scripture that comes to mind when on the subject of reincarnation is when Paul stated "it is appointed for men to die once, after this the judgement."

How do you respond to Hebrews 9:27 @QuantumBit

Hi @friend of

I do not want to put words in your mouth and presume what your interpretation is.

What is it about the verse that you find relates to reincarnation?

 

[QuantumBit]

There is only one concept of reincarnation...

Whoa. Stop right there.

A simple Wikipedia search teaches otherwise...

Judaism
"Today, reincarnation is an esoteric belief within many streams of modern Judaism."

Christianity
"It has been suggested that some of the early Church Fathers, especially Origen, still entertained a belief in the possibility of reincarnation, but evidence is tenuous, and the writings of Origen as they have come down to us speak explicitly against it"

Gnosticism
"Several Gnostic sects professed reincarnation."

Etc. Etc.

No one owns exclusive rights to the concept of reincarnation. Anyone who wishes to get into a debate on this subject should at least know this simple basic fact. Most of you here do not, which just goes to show you have no business expressing your opinions on a topic you know nothing about.

 

[friend of]

Hi @friend of

I do not want to put words in your mouth and presume what your interpretation is.

What is it about the verse that you find relates to reincarnation?

I believe Paul's words in Hebrews 9:27 are a denial of the concept of reincarnation. Paul plainly tells us that a man (or woman) gets one life. Then, after that life is over, they face the judgement of God.

As someone who believes in reincarnation, how do you defend said position in light of Heb 9:27?

 

[Raccoon1010]

I believe Paul's words in Hebrews 9:27 are a denial of the concept of reincarnation. Paul plainly tells us that a man (or woman) gets one life. Then, after that life is over, they face the judgement of God.

As someone who believes in reincarnation, how do you defend said position in light of Heb 9:27?

Not to mention the resurrection into our new bodies as humans that are like the angels. Re-incarnation is full of holes when considering the bible and cannot be accepted as truth.

 

[QuantumBit]

Paul plainly tells us that a man (or woman) gets one life.

Thanks for the reply.

I would have to disagree that the verse teaches that Humans only get one life. The wording does not match.

Moreover, if we were to take that concept and compare it to the rest of the Bible, we would find that it contradicts.

The term 'Born Again' is very literal. The Saved receive new bodies after death or Rapture. Technically that is another Life. In fact, it is a form of reincarnation. Going from one body to another is literally, reincarnation.

Then, after that life is over, they face the judgement of God.

The above I agree with. After judgment, the Unsaved are thrown into the Lake of Fire in which they will 'pass through' as the Old Testament teaches. After passing through, they go to Moloch which is symbolic of the womb of the Earth Mother.

As someone who believes in reincarnation, how do you defend said position in light of Heb 9:27?

All Hebrews 9:27 teaches is that once a person dies, they will be judged for that Life. Ironically, the verse supports reincarnation by clarifying that those who think they will live a life of sin over and over, will have to account for every one. This means that those who try and circumvent Judgement are in for a rude surprise.

Note that the purpose of Judgement Day is to tally up all of the crimes and hand out the proper sentence to be paid in the next Life. They will 'reap what they sow'. All is fair. All is just.

The Bible is replete with verses teaching 'eye for an eye' and that the punishment should fit the crime. What the Church teaches is extremely contradictory to the fair justice laws that God goes by. That fact alone should cause every Christian to re-evaluate their positions.

Similar to the Caste System, folks are born into various levels of health, wealth, prosperity, location, etc. based on the sentence handed on Judgement Day. In a Caste System, people are looked down upon and forced to stay in whatever state of being they were born into. They have little hope of becoming successful.

Where Scripture differs is that we are taught to help everyone and be Good Samaritans etc. regardless of their status in society. In other words, there is always the possibility of being uplifted. It is part of the Good News of the Gospel.

 

[Mr E]

PUL-EASE

Please don't snip a portion of something I said, then paste it with something else.

That's dishonest on its face. If you want to quote me-- quote what I actually said.

Do you think God had a beginning? Or is he Eternal?
Will He have an end? Or is He everlasting?

You might struggle with these concepts, but I don't. When I read that the Word was with God at the beginning, before creation.... I believe it. --That in Him was Life and that Life was the light of mankind. So before birth... existence. Before the foundations of the earth were set down, the sons of God sang in chorus.

“Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?
Tell me, if you possess understanding.

Who set its measurements—if you know—or who stretched a measuring line across it?
On what were its bases set, or who laid its cornerstone— when the morning stars sang in chorus, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

 

[Wrangler]

Do you think God had a beginning? Or is he Eternal?

You’re moving the goal post to God from us. The idea that we were not created, that is began, is absurd.

Reincarnation is not about a beginning or an end and is contrary to Scriptures basic teachings.

 

[Wrangler]

Please don't snip a portion of something I said, then paste it with something else.

That's dishonest on its face. If you want to quote me-- quote what I actually said.

Request denied.

I did quite what you actually said. I just snipped the parts I did not want to focus on. If you think that changed the meaning of what you were saying - rather than more concisely express your meaning - please explain how.

 

[Mr E]

Request denied.

I did quite what you actually said. I just snipped the parts I did not want to focus on. If you think that changed the meaning of what you were saying - rather than more concisely express your meaning - please explain how.

Dishonest is what dishonest does.

 

[Mr E]

You’re moving the goal post to God from us. The idea that we were not created, that is began, is absurd.

Reincarnation is not about a beginning or an end and is contrary to Scriptures basic teachings.

That's okay if you can't or won't answer direct questions. It frees me to do the same.

 

[Wrangler]

Dishonest is what dishonest does.

Projecting.

That's okay if you can't or won't answer direct questions. It frees me to do the same.

Friend, we are not talking about God dying. We are talking about human reincarnation.

Your dishonest argument reduces to we experience reincarnation because God is eternal.

Putting aside your stunning displays of non sequitors, your absence of actual Scripture verses is telling.

Guess what? Just because a belief is not orthodox, does not mean it is valid.

 

[Mr E]

Perhaps the best scriptural example comes directly from the words of Christ himself. He explains the concept explicitly not only through the telling of a parable, but also by providing a rare explanation of that parable to remove any room for doubt. Of this particular parable he says-- if you don't understand this one, you won't understand any of them. The spiritual principle is that important. That foundational.

“Listen! A sower went out to sow. And as he sowed, some seeds fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured them. Other seeds fell on rocky ground where they did not have much soil. They sprang up quickly because the soil was not deep. But when the sun came up, they were scorched, and because they did not have sufficient root, they withered. Other seeds fell among the thorns, and they grew up and choked them. But other seeds fell on good soil and produced grain, some a hundred times as much, some sixty, and some thirty. The one who has ears had better listen!”

He makes the association. Seeds.

It's unmistakable. And it's not the only occasion in which he speaks in these terms....

I tell you the solemn truth, unless a kernel of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains by itself alone. But if it dies, it produces much grain. The one who loves his life destroys it, and the one who hates his life in this world guards it for eternal life. (John 12)

A seed that falls to the ground and dies.... it dies, is buried in the soil, yet while this is an end, it's also a beginning. One seed, one life, yet from that one seed, thirty, sixty, a hundred....

 

[Mr E]

But he didn't stop there.

These he called the secrets of the kingdom of heaven.... It would be wise to pay attention when Jesus says he wants to tell you a secret.

A parable so nice, he told it twice. Maybe it's important.

“So listen to the parable of the sower: When anyone hears the word about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches what was sown in his heart; this is the seed sown along the path. The seed sown on rocky ground is the person who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy. But he has no root in himself and does not endure; when trouble or persecution comes because of the word, immediately he falls away. The seed sown among thorns is the person who hears the word, but worldly cares and the seductiveness of wealth choke the word, so it produces nothing. But as for the seed sown on good soil, this is the person who hears the word and understands. He bears fruit, yielding a hundred, sixty, or thirty times what was sown.”

Once more so we don't miss the concept!

He presented them with another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a person who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, an enemy came and sowed darnel among the wheat and went away. When the plants sprouted and produced grain, then the darnel also appeared. So the slaves of the landowner came and said to him, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Then where did the darnel come from?’ He said, ‘An enemy has done this!’ So the slaves replied, ‘Do you want us to go and gather it?’ But he said, ‘No, since in gathering the darnel you may uproot the wheat along with it. Let both grow together until the harvest. At harvest time I will tell the reapers, “First collect the darnel and tie it in bundles to be burned, but then gather the wheat into my barn.”

And with a bow on top.... all from that single chapter--Matt 13

He gave them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed that a man took and sowed in his field. It is the smallest of all the seeds, but when it has grown it is the greatest garden plant and becomes a tree, so that the wild birds come and nest in its branches.”

 

[Wrangler]

A seed that falls to the ground and dies.... it dies, is buried in the soil, yet while this is an end, it's also a beginning. One seed, one life, yet from that one seed, thirty, sixty, a hundred....

"The seed" is a metaphor for the Spirit of God being accepted by people. It is not a metaphor for a person; a person who repeatedly dies and is repeatedly born.

 

[Wrangler]

He gave them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed t

Right. Christ did not say anything about reincarnation, a person dying repeatedly and being born repeatedly. He said the kingdom of heaven, not a person birth-death cycle, is like a mustard seed.