Is God finished with Israel?

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes indeed. ;) And on that note if we're expecting the prophecy about David's fallen tabernacle being restored to involve Jesus ruling in the future from an earthly Temple....then we would be wrong....

You can;t say you need to be open then talk like this. Because you just proved you are not open.

since David only ever had a tabernacle for worship, not a Temple....once again refer you to 2 Sam 7. (A temple wasn't God's idea to start with, and David never built a Temple, his son Solomon did.)

All I am doing is interpreting prophecy. 2 Sam 7 has nothing to do with prophecy concerning the return of Isreal and restoration after she repents. And the lord sitting on the throne in jerusalem.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This really illustrates the problem with your (and others) view. You are pitting Israelites against Gentiles. But, Romans 11 talks about Israelite and Gentile believers being grafted in together. Why do you not say anything about that? Instead, all you want to talk about is Israel.

I said I would no longer respond to you. And I am not changing that.

I will however for the benefit of other readers respond to this nonsense

We are not pitting jew2 against Gentiles. Paul however, did differentiate between jews and gentiles

he called jews (israel) THEY

They are natural branches
They were cut off
They are blinded in part
They have a remnant
They are hated according to the gospel
They are beloved according to the promise
They will all be saved

As apposed to gentile believers

You are unnatural branches.
You are grafted in
You should not boast.
You need to be warned of the mystery.

They are Israel (saved and unsaved)

You are gentiles (saved)

Anyone who has an open heart can feel free to read romans 11 to be as the bereans and see if what I said is trust or not.

 

[jeffweeder]

Romans 10:12
For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;

 

[Enoch111]

But, Romans 11 talks about Israelite and Gentile believers being grafted in together. Why do you not say anything about that?

Because that is not the subject of the thread. The title is "Is God finished with Israel?" and the answer is a resounding "NO!" from Romans 11.

When God made a covenant with Abraham He already saw BOTH the Church and redeemed and restored Israel within that covenant. That covenant has not been totally fulfilled, but it will be after the Second Coming of Christ. At the present time -- the Church Age -- God sees everyone as the same whether Jew or Gentile. But that will change after the Second Coming.

 

[quietthinker]

The scriptures are full of metaphor. It is so because a higher truth is concealed for the purpose of bringing joy to those who see. For those who don't, human logic rules.
An example might be the 'altercation' Jesus had with Peter when he, ie Peter, is rebuked because he intended to apply his own expectations onto Jesus......expectations which were short sighted, selfish and full of misinformation.
Matthew 16:23

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Did I mention race? I don't think I did. I argued from the text of Genesis concerning the nations of Israel and Judah. It isn't about race; it's about a nation.

It's all about Christ Jesus. One is his or not. end of story.
Religious hype never cut it ever.
One abides in Jesus or one does not. Trying to find anyone outside of this foundation is futile to try add and put into the issue.
I look to Christ Jesus for everything, not Mans works.

 

[covenantee]

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Genesis 1:1

 

[The Light]

Genesis 1:1

Revelation 22:21

 

[Marty fox]

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

But shortly before writing that Paul said

Romans 9:6
It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

 

[covenantee]

Revelation 22:21

Genesis 1:2

 

[covenantee]

he called jews (israel) THEY

THEY are Israelites which includes Gentiles as well as Jews.

They are hated according to the gospel

Debunked.
They are enemies of the gospel i.e. they hate the gospel.

They are beloved according to the promise

Debunked.
Only the elect remnant is beloved.

They will all be saved

Debunked.
Only the elect remnant will be saved.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

But shortly before writing that Paul said

Romans 9:6
It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

You have to look at context.

Paul was answering a specific question in that verse in romans 9. Responding to the lie that a person was saved automatically by bloodline.

In chapter 11. After answering MANY questions concerning God choosing Israel. He changes the topic to explain that God is not done with Israel.

If we do not get context right. We will not understand what Paul is saying

 

[CadyandZoe]

You have the wrong Zion and wrong Jerusalem in mind. You, and many others here, are very ignorant about New Testament scripture and that is why you have so many false beliefs. I have to wonder if you, and some others here, have even ever read this:

Hebrews 12:18 You have not come to a mountain that can be touched and that is burning with fire; to darkness, gloom and storm; 19 to a trumpet blast or to such a voice speaking words that those who heard it begged that no further word be spoken to them, 20 because they could not bear what was commanded: “If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned to death.”c]">[c] 21 The sight was so terrifying that Moses said, “I am trembling with fear.” 22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

Why are you focused on the earthly Zion and Jerusalem when scripture focuses on the heavenly mount Zion and heavenly Jerusalem?

I have focused on the Zion and Jerusalem that exists today because that is the place where God intends to sanctify his holy name among the Gentiles. After that, when Jesus returns, the new Zion and Jerusalem will come down from heaven. So then, it isn't a matter of "either/or"; Its a matter of "both/and". In other words, God is going to sanctify his name at the old Jerusalem (if you will); AND he is going to bring down a new Jerusalem from heaven. Both are true.

 

[CadyandZoe]

That is the way that He sits on the throne of David. It's not a literal throne. Peter said that Jesus was raised to the throne of David by way of being raised from the dead.

Yes, Peter argues that God made Jesus both Lord and Messiah. Peter also points out Psalm 110, where we see the Lord sitting at God's right hand "until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."

Peter argues later that God will "send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you [the men of Israel], whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time." From this we understand that Peter anticipates a coming time of restoration. This coming time of restoration is what we call the "Millennial Period" I don't think reasonable person cold argue that we are now living during a time when God has restored Jerusalem to her former place as "the city of righteousness." This is yet to be fulfilled.

 

[CadyandZoe]

It's all about Christ Jesus. One is his or not. end of story.
Religious hype never cut it ever.
One abides in Jesus or one does not. Trying to find anyone outside of this foundation is futile to try add and put into the issue.
I look to Christ Jesus for everything, not Mans works.

You are to be commended for looking to Christ. But please understand, I am not attempting to find people outside of this foundation, as you put it.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Romans 10:12
For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;

Granted. Bear in mind, however, that Jesus was born into the house of David, which, according to Paul, is one qualification for being the Messiah. Romans 1:3. Jesus was born a descendant of David "according to the flesh." In other words, Paul would not deny the distinctiveness of Jesus' lineage. Now that Jesus has ascended, Paul says, we no longer recognize him "according to the flesh." But before he was ascended we did. 2 Corinthians 5:16 His family line was an essential qualification for him to be the messiah.

For this reason, God's wish to sanctify his name through the preservation of the Hebrews living in Jerusalem doesn't seem to contradict Paul's statement that anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord can be saved. When the time comes, they WILL call upon the name of the Lord. Joel 2:32

 

[CadyandZoe]

I cited Scripture showing that Gentiles are included.

What is your Scripture, not your own definition, showing that Gentiles are not included?

Can you cite an example where it says that Gentiles are included in the remnant? I don't think you will find one.

The word "remnant" is only used twice in the New Testament, both of them in Romans 11 and both referring to a remaining fraction of Israel.

Romans 9:27
Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, “Though the number of the sons of Israel be like the sand of the sea, it is the remnant that will be saved;

Here Isaiah speaks of the sons of Israel, which is understood to indicate Jacob's lineage. Isaiah remarks that Jacob will have so many direct descendants that their number will be like the sand of the sea. But only a small fraction of those will be saved. Paul quotes this passage in support of his contention that God's word concerning Israel does not apply to all of Israel's descendants. Romans 9:6

Paul can NOT use Isaiah's word to support his contention that Gentiles are included among those whom God is saving. Isaiah isn't saying anything about Gentiles in that passage.

 

[CadyandZoe]

The idea that anyone here is promoting replacement theology is false. No one is saying that anyone is being replaced. Instead, Gentile believers are joined together with Israelite believers. Who is replaced? No one.

I think you mischaracterized Replacement theology, which actually teaches that the church replaces Israel.

 

[Davy]

What does the actual Bible text say? Are you suggesting that John was delusional?

REVELATION 7: THE TWELVE TRIBES OF ISRAEL
And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
1. Of the tribe of Juda[h] were sealed twelve thousand.
2. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand.
3. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
4. Of the tribe of As[h]er were sealed twelve thousand.
5. Of the tribe of N[a]pthali[m] were sealed twelve thousand.
6. Of the tribe of Manasse[h] were sealed twelve thousand.
7. Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand.
8. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand.
9. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
10. Of the tribe of Z[e]bulon were sealed twelve thousand.
11. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand.
12. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

There is absolutely no indication that these 144,000 are missionaries. Indeed they are raptured to Heaven immediately (Rev 14) and stand before the throne of God.

NOTE: The KJV translators transliterated the Greek spellings instead of translating into the Hebrew equivalents. Thus Judah became "Juda" etc.

I never said the 144,000 were "missionaries". That was Eternally Grateful who said that.

What I said is that NOT ALL 144,000 are JEWS of the "house of Judah".

Only 3 tribes there represent the JEWS of the "house of Judah". The rest are Israelites of the ten tribe "house of Israel", and are LOST to today's JEWS and to the world!

I also showed per Revelation 7 that those 144,000 are SEALED with God's Seal by The Holy Spirit, which is in connection with Revelation 9 about the 'stinging'. Only those NOT sealed with God's Seal can be stung by the symbolic scorpions, and that represents tribulation timing for the end.

That means... the 144,000 represent CHRIST'S ELECT of HIS CHURCH, because we know the unbelieving Jews are NOT sealed by The Holy Spirit under Christ Jesus, for they still reject Jesus of Nazareth as their Savior.

 

[Davy]

Shiloh (David's son...the Son of Man) did already come in the first century, and became the King of Israel and will be forever, as the Lord promised David.

David was not yet born when Jacob gave the Genesis 49:10 prophecy to his son Judah. Nice try though. Shiloh in that verse is about Christ Jesus. Now for an orthodox 'unbelieving' Jew, they would likely say what you said.