Is God finished with Israel?

[Lizbeth]

Did David sit on the throne of David?

We always need ears to hear what the Spirit is saying when we read scripture.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Shiloh (David's son...the Son of Man) did already come in the first century, and became the King of Israel and will be forever, as the Lord promised David.

he is not sitting on david's throne though

David wanted to make the lord a house in jerusalem. God made a covenant that his heir would rule from that house in jerusalem.

Christ is in heaven. not in jerusalem.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We always need ears to hear what the Spirit is saying when we read scripture.

amen, we also need to be open.. always willing to admit, we may be wrong..

 

[covenantee]

Think about it again. I cited the definition of remnant, hoping you would understand that when the Bible talks about a remnant, it is talking about a fraction of the Hebrews. By definition Gentiles are not included in the remnant.

But if one should make up definitions along the way, then any teaching is possible.

I cited Scripture showing that Gentiles are included.

What is your Scripture, not your own definition, showing that Gentiles are not included?

 

[Keraz]

There is absolutely no indication that these 144,000 are missionaries.

Isaiah 66:19 proves that they are.
The angel in Revelation 14:6-7 is an allegory for them. God won't send an angel to shout the Gospel, that would just terrify people!

I don't see how my interpretation of Jeremiah 50:4-5 is in error. Rather than reinterpreting Israel in terms of the Christian church, just interpret Israel as the God fearing Hebrews.

I think my interpretation fits the text better.

Your interpretation of Jeremiah 50:4-5, is a denial of the New Testament teachings, of Jesus being the one and only Way to Salvation.
ALL of the OT should be viewed thru the lens of the NT revelations.

I say again: the determination to have a Jewish [Hebrew] ethnic group as the special people of God, is wrong and unbiblical.

Shiloh (David's son...the Son of Man) did already come in the first century, and became the King of Israel and will be forever, as the Lord promised David.

Actually the Jews killed Him.
He was resurrected and went back to heaven, where He awaits His enemies to be made His footstool. That is yet to happen; the Sixth Seal will destroy many, the Great Trib of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls will knock off the rest.
Only the faithful Christian peoples will go with Jesus into the Millennium. Matthew 24:31, Matthew 25:31-34

 

[The Light]

I cited Scripture showing that Gentiles are included.

What is your Scripture, not your own definition, showing that Gentiles are not included?

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If I understand you correctly, yes. The Bible seems to suggest that Jesus will rule from Zion, from Jerusalem, and his rule will extend to the entire earth. Presumably, he will entrust that task to his followers, who will live among the nations and guide them.

You have the wrong Zion and wrong Jerusalem in mind. You, and many others here, are very ignorant about New Testament scripture and that is why you have so many false beliefs. I have to wonder if you, and some others here, have even ever read this:

Hebrews 12:18 You have not come to a mountain that can be touched and that is burning with fire; to darkness, gloom and storm; 19 to a trumpet blast or to such a voice speaking words that those who heard it begged that no further word be spoken to them, 20 because they could not bear what was commanded: “If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned to death.”c]">[c] 21 The sight was so terrifying that Moses said, “I am trembling with fear.” 22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

Why are you focused on the earthly Zion and Jerusalem when scripture focuses on the heavenly mount Zion and heavenly Jerusalem?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Did Jesus sit on the throne of David? I think he was raised to the right hand of the father right?

That is the way that He sits on the throne of David. It's not a literal throne. Peter said that Jesus was raised to the throne of David by way of being raised from the dead.

Acts 2:29 “Fellow Israelites, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day. 30 But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne. 31 Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay. 32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it. 33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said, “‘The Lord said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand 35 until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.” 36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”

So, Peter indicated that David prophesied about God promising him that he would have a descendant on his throne. Then Peter indicated that with that prophecy "he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah". So, Peter was equating the raising of Jesus to David's throne with the raising of Jesus from the dead. He became the King upon His resurrection. That is undeniable. He said Himself after His resurrection "all authority in heaven and in earth has been given to me" (Matthew 28:18). And, as Peter said, "God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah". By being made Lord upon His resurrection means He was made King.

That of course is not true, and is simply a doctrinal tradition from men, and not from God's Word. The throne of David has always been, still is, and always will be, an earthly throne. Just because you listen to men instead of God's written Word about it is why you don't understand that David's throne is still on earth today, waiting for Christ's coming to inherit it, as written.

The throne of David was removed from Jerusalem because of Judah's rebellion against God in the time of Jeremiah the prophet. And king Zedekiah's son heirs were all killed by the king of Babylon, but not Zedekiah's daughters, which Jeremiah was guardian over.

You obviously don't listen to Peter. Or is Acts 2:29-36 not in your Bible?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I never said otherwise. this is not about who is saved and who is not saved. it has to do with the question is God done with the nation of Israel.

God has never been done with the people of Israel. There have been many people of Israel saved in the past 2,000 years or so. There were 3,000 Israelites saved on the day of Pentecost alone.

Scripture teaches that God wants all people to repent and to be saved. Has that ever not been true? People make the mistake of thinking that the Israelites in Paul's day, besides the remnant who were saved (Romans 11:5), were cut off because of unbelief and condemned forever at that point. But, that is not the case. They still had the opportunity to be saved after being cut off. That is why in Romans 11:14 that Paul said he had hoped to help save some of them. If they were cut off and had no hope of salvation after being cut off, then what Paul said about them in Romans 11:14 wouldn't make any sense.

God has never postponed salvation for the people of Israel. That is what many, like you, are missing. They have all had the opportunity to be saved for the past 2,000 years. But, what God wanted to happen is for the Gentiles to provoke the Israelites to jealousy after the Israelites had first provoked the Gentiles to jealousy. That was His plan. But, postponing salvation for the people of Israel was never His plan.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

lol. Then why does God differentiate saved jews and saved gentiles?

He doesn't. What makes you think that? Scripture clearly teaches otherwise.

Acts 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[jeffweeder]

God has never been done with the people of Israel. There have been many people of Israel saved in the past 2,000 years or so. There were 3,000 Israelites saved on the day of Pentecost alone.

Scripture teaches that God wants all people to repent and to be saved. Has that ever not been true? People make the mistake of thinking that the Israelites in Paul's day, besides the remnant who were saved (Romans 11:5), were cut off because of unbelief and condemned forever at that point. But, that is not the case. They still had the opportunity to be saved after being cut off. That is why in Romans 11:14 that Paul said he had hoped to help save some of them. If they were cut off and had no hope of salvation after being cut off, then what Paul said about them in Romans 11:14 wouldn't make any sense.

God has never postponed salvation for the people of Israel. That is what many, like you, are missing. They have all had the opportunity to be saved for the past 2,000 years. But, what God wanted to happen is for the Gentiles to provoke the Israelites to jealousy after the Israelites had first provoked the Gentiles to jealousy. That was His plan. But, postponing salvation for the people of Israel was never His plan.

Very well put. Its called amazing grace.


Acts 17
30 So having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now proclaiming to mankind that all people everywhere are to repent, 31 because He has set a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all people by raising Him from the dead.”

32 Now when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some began to scoff, but others said, “We shall hear from you again concerning this.”

 

[covenantee]

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Genesis 17:12; Exodus 12:48-49; Leviticus 19:34; Leviticus 24:22

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Paul has expressly explained who "all Israel" is in Romans 9:6-8.

It is not the racialized malinterpretation of modernist apostate df.

Many here are willfully ignorant of what Romans 9:6-8 teaches. They would rather cling to their false pet doctrine than accept what Paul taught there and adjust their doctrine accordingly.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Very well put. Its called amazing grace.


Acts 17
30 So having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now proclaiming to mankind that all people everywhere are to repent, 31 because He has set a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all people by raising Him from the dead.”

32 Now when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some began to scoff, but others said, “We shall hear from you again concerning this.”

Thanks, Jeff. Some people here are making God out to be a respecter of persons (showing favoritism because of ethnicity or nationality) and making it as if for the past 2,000 years He has contradicted His own character by not wanting all Israelites to repent and be saved. What these people need to think about is if their interpretation of one passage, such as how they interpret Romans 11, causes them to contradict other scripture, then they need to start over and interpret it in such a way that doesn't contradict other scripture. But, this doesn't seem to be of any concern to them.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Replacement theology is false as is works based gospel..

The idea that anyone here is promoting replacement theology is false. No one is saying that anyone is being replaced. Instead, Gentile believers are joined together with Israelite believers. Who is replaced? No one.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Romans 11 is all about they vs you

They are isreal

You are gentile

This really illustrates the problem with your (and others) view. You are pitting Israelites against Gentiles. But, Romans 11 talks about Israelite and Gentile believers being grafted in together. Why do you not say anything about that? Instead, all you want to talk about is Israel.

 

[Lizbeth]

he is not sitting on david's throne though

David wanted to make the lord a house in jerusalem. God made a covenant that his heir would rule from that house in jerusalem.

Christ is in heaven. not in jerusalem.

I don't know which scripture you're referencing. David's heir Solomon did rule from the Temple in Jerusalem, if you're talking about what God said about Solomon..?

Scripture I was referencing was the 2 Samuel 7 passages where God promised David a kingdom that would never end....this is a Messianic prophecy of Jesus and His kingdom:

2Sa 7:12-17

And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.
He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:
But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.
And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.
According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.

It is through Christ that David's throne and kingdom would be established forever.....Christ the Son of God and Son of Man having come from David's loins. The house that Jesus is building is the church essentially....He dwells in the temple of the church and in our tabernacle/vessel of the individual believer by His Spirit. This prophecy is not talking about a Temple in earthly Jerusalem.

 

[Lizbeth]

amen, we also need to be open.. always willing to admit, we may be wrong..

Yes indeed. ;) And on that note if we're expecting the prophecy about David's fallen tabernacle being restored to involve Jesus ruling in the future from an earthly Temple....then we would be wrong....since David only ever had a tabernacle for worship, not a Temple....once again refer you to 2 Sam 7. (A temple wasn't God's idea to start with, and David never built a Temple, his son Solomon did.)

 

[The Light]

Genesis 17:12; Exodus 12:48-49; Leviticus 19:34; Leviticus 24:22

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I don't know which scripture you're referencing. David's heir Solomon did rule from the Temple in Jerusalem, if you're talking about what God said about Solomon..?

Scripture I was referencing was the 2 Samuel 7 passages where God promised David a kingdom that would never end....this is a Messianic prophecy of Jesus and His kingdom:

2Sa 7:12-17

And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.
He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:
But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.
And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.
According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.

It is through Christ that David's throne and kingdom would be established forever.....Christ the Son of God and Son of Man having come from David's loins. The house that Jesus is building is the church essentially....He dwells in the temple of the church and in our tabernacle/vessel of the individual believer by His Spirit. This prophecy is not talking about a Temple in earthly Jerusalem.

He will build a house.

Ezek 37 speaks of the restoration of Israel. The bringing again of two kingdoms and making them one again.and they will have a king.. That is christ. That is jerusalem. And that is earthly
Ezek 37:
21 And say to them, ‘This is what the Lord God says: “Behold, I am going to take the sons of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and I will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land;22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king will be king for all of them; and they will no longer be two nations, and no longer be divided into two kingdoms. 23 They will no longer defile themselves with their idols, or with their detestable things, or with any of their offenses; but I will rescue them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. And they will be My people, and I will be their God.

Jeremiah 30 speaks of the same. And calls the king david (
8 ‘It shall come about on that day,’ declares the Lord of armies, ‘that I will break his yoke from their necks and will tear to pieces their restraints; and strangers will no longer make them their slaves. 9 But they shall serve the Lord their God and David their king, whom I will raise up for them.

10 And do not fear, Jacob My servant,’ declares the Lord,
‘And do not be dismayed, Israel;
For behold, I am going to save you from far away,
And your descendants from the land of their captivity.
And Jacob will return and be at peace, without anxiety,
And no one will make him afraid.
11 For I am with you,’ declares the Lord, ‘to save you;
For I will completely destroy all the nations where I have scattered you,
Only I will not destroy you completely.
But I will discipline you fairly

There are so many prophecies concerning this. That I just can not let it sit.