Insults

[Bob Estey]

While I agree with the general principle that casting insult isn't loving, there are two proverbs which I consider when in argument with individuals who are professing "Christianity" while acting maliciously in posts.

Do not answer a fool according to his foolishness,
Or you will also be like him.
Answer a fool as his foolishness deserves,
So that he will not be wise in his own eyes.
Proverbs 26:4-5 NASB

Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
Lest you also be like him.
Answer a fool according to his folly,
Lest he be wise in his own eyes. Proverbs 26:4-5 NKJV

Answer not a fool according to his folly,
lest you be like him yourself.
Answer a fool according to his folly,
lest he be wise in his own eyes. Proverbs 26:4-5 ESV

These two verses are not Christian instruction, but wisdom literature (but Christ tells us to be wise as serpents and gentle as lambs.) I've provided 3 popular translations, all considered as from accurate sources, but the Hebrew isn't as specific as Greek or English. Perhaps you'll notice that the NASB translation is "softened" compared to the ESV and NKJV versions, probably to conform to our modern notions of Christian charity. I believe that the ESV and NKJV are more accurate in their sharpness because these verses imply a use in the form of judgment and rebuke.

Some transgressors are more responsive to a slap in the face than a kiss on the cheek. It's not endearing, but shaming. Our society has lost a healthy sense of shame, an emotion which opposes pride and forces self inspection, leading to repentance in the heart softened by God.

There's obviously a huge difference between abusiveness and sincere correction, but are you angry at your parents, counselors, authority figures who motivated you to change your behavior to instill character in you?
Are you angry at God who disciplines you through the circumstances of your life?
No one likes to be on the "business end" of the rod of correction, but those who learn by it grow in wisdom.

Now, you might say, what gives anyone the right to rebuke you, especially when you see no fault in yourself. King David demonstrates a godly perspective when forced to retreat from Jerusalem by the usurpation of his throne by his son Absalom.
5 Now when King David came to Bahurim, there was a man from the family of the house of Saul, whose name was Shimei the son of Gera, coming from there. He came out, cursing continuously as he came. 6 And he threw stones at David and at all the servants of King David. And all the people and all the mighty men were on his right hand and on his left. 7 Also Shimei said thus when he cursed: “Come out! Come out! You bloodthirsty man, you rogue! 8 The Lord has brought upon you all the blood of the house of Saul, in whose place you have reigned; and the Lord has delivered the kingdom into the hand of Absalom your son. So now you are caught in your own evil, because you are a bloodthirsty man!”

9 Then Abishai the son of Zeruiah said to the king, “Why should this dead dog curse my lord the king? Please, let me go over and take off his head!”

10 But the king said, “What have I to do with you, you sons of Zeruiah? So let him curse, because the Lord has said to him, ‘Curse David.’ Who then shall say, ‘Why have you done so?’ ”

11 And David said to Abishai and all his servants, “See how my son who came from my own body seeks my life. How much more now may this Benjamite? Let him alone, and let him curse; for so the Lord has ordered him. 12 It may be that the Lord will look on my affliction, and that the Lord will repay me with good for his cursing this day.” 13 And as David and his men went along the road, Shimei went along the hillside opposite him and cursed as he went, threw stones at him and kicked up dust. 2 Samuel 16:5-13
King David didn't forgive his tormentor. He even advised Solomon to have Shimei executed when he passed the throne down to Solomon. But David recognized that God allowed or even caused this behavior by Shimei and might possibly bless him in his affliction. David believed in God's sovereign control over creation and held to a belief similar to what the Apostle later wrote in Romans chapter 8:

And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. Romans 8:28

This doesn't excuse our transgression in acting abusively, but those things which we endure as abuses actually demonstrate our blessings in Christ.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you. Matthew 5:10-12

Rebukes are different from insult, but they can be received as the same. Rebukes imply fault while insult belittles. What's the actual difference? Both tear down a person rather than lift them up, but do you want to lift up transgression?
Do you want people to be content in their faults?
Open rebuke is better
Than love carefully concealed.
Faithful are the wounds of a friend,
But the kisses of an enemy are deceitful. Proverbs 27:5-6
Again, this is wisdom literature, not Christian instruction, but King David took the perspective that everything ultimately came from the hand of God, and he allowed that perspective to mold his behavior.

Job expressed a similar attitude toward life:

10 But he said to her, “You speak as one of the foolish women speaks. Shall we indeed accept good from God, and shall we not accept adversity?” In all this Job did not sin with his lips. Job 2:10

The final word belongs to Jesus and a standard difficult, but not impossible to live up to:

And just as you want men to do to you, you also do to them likewise. Luke 6:31

You'll notice that Jesus lays the burden of response at our feet. We're fundamentally responsible for our own behavior, our own responses, not for the behavior and response of others. If you don't want to be goaded, don't goad. If you don't want to be insulted, don't insult.

We can never fully know the motive of another person's words or actions, we can only know our own, and the fundamental truth that another may intend something for evil, but God's intent is only good.

If someone insults me, I know what is going to happen to them. If I return the insult, the same thing will happen to me. It satisfies me to show a person the error in their logic.

 

[Lambano]

It seems to work for me.

Upon reflection, your way may be better than mine. If you can bless those who curse you, it's more consistent with Jesus's instructions to us. (The Sermon on the Mount was part of today's lectionary readings.)

 

[Bob Estey]

Upon reflection, your way may be better than mine. If you can bless those who curse you, it's more consistent with Jesus's instructions to us. (The Sermon on the Mount was part of today's lectionary readings.)

It isn't that I'm blessing those that curse me. I'm just finding that cursing them back doesn't help. What helps me is being able to find the error in their logic and pointing it out to them.

 

[Lambano]

What helps me is being able to find the error in their logic and pointing it out to them.

That's the blessing I'm talking about. :)

[EDIT] I should elaborate on that. You are through your actions saying that you consider them important enough to continue engaging with them on the subject. By disengaging from the conversation, I am effectively saying I don't consider them or their positions worth my time. Your way is better.

 

[Nancy]

There’s two groups of people I avoid having Bible discussions with:

1. Sectarian Believers.
2. Unbelievers.

It’s never edifying and it grieves my spirit having a Bible conversation with these two groups.

Same here brother! very shallow discussions for sure with those very groups, it is especially disturbing when discussing with the Sectarian ones.

 

[Nancy]

If someone insults you, and you can show them their logic is in error, it probably embarrasses them.

If only this were a normal response yet, I see way too many on here who simply just want to be right, regardless of the truth. Many get very nasty, I've been brought to tears a number of times on this site.
Also, the more embarrassing it is to them, is when they get even nastier.

 

[Bob Estey]

If only this were a normal response yet, I see way too many on here who simply just want to be right, regardless of the truth. Many get very nasty, I've been brought to tears a number of times on this site.
Also, the more embarrassing it is to them, is when they get even nastier.

It is good when people can be respectful towards those they disagree with.

 

[Bob Estey]

That's the blessing I'm talking about. :)

[EDIT] I should elaborate on that. You are through your actions saying that you consider them important enough to continue engaging with them on the subject. By disengaging from the conversation, I am effectively saying I don't consider them or their positions worth my time. Your way is better.

Maybe sometimes people aren't willing to reason.

 

[Abigail]

What do you do when you are having a theological disagreement with someone, and they insult you? It seems to me it’s best to ignore the insult and explain where the other person’s logic is wrong.

Jesus explained what happens when we insult people (Matthew 5:22). There are people who claim they are following Jesus, who apparently aren’t.

In such discussions with those type results I've found the attempt at insult insults that one levying them. How do we discuss the Bible and then resort to Satanic behavior to impart to the one we're having a discussion with that they know nothing compared to ourselves?
That's just weird.

 

[amadeus]

But if you ignore the insult and show the other person the error in their logic, I think you will quiet them down.

Perhaps, but consider also...

"A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger." Prov. 15:1

 

[amadeus]

Flaws in logic can be exposed. Doesn't that usually silence them?

Is that not presuming that men are usually logical and most of the time will desist when given a logical rebuttal? Then again what if the person confronting you is often quite illogical? Have you never met an illogical person?

 

[Abigail]

Flaws in logic can be exposed. Doesn't that usually silence them?

Can one presume they are always more logical than those they're in discussion with?

 

[Bob Estey]

Perhaps, but consider also...

"A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger." Prov. 15:1

When someone insults you, two things will happen: First, you will be wise enough not to insult them back. Second, you won't care the least little bit about their wrath.

 

[Bob Estey]

Is that not presuming that men are usually logical and most of the time will desist when given a logical rebuttal? Then again what if the person confronting you is often quite illogical? Have you never met an illogical person?

I don't think it's about illogic. I think it's about pride. I think some people are offended if you don't agree with them.

 

[Bob Estey]

Can one presume they are always more logical than those they're in discussion with?

The trick is keeping things as simple as possible. If I say, "One and one is two," no one can argue with that. Jesus made things pretty simple for us: Love God with all your heart, mind, and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself.

 

[amadeus]

When someone insults you, two things will happen: First, you will be wise enough not to insult them back. Second, you won't care the least little bit about their wrath.

You say that they will happen? Or do you mean that they should happen or that they might happen or...? Are there alternatives... and does Jesus in a person make a difference in his response?

 

[amadeus]

I don't think it's about illogic. I think it's about pride. I think some people are offended if you don't agree with them.

Might not both, illogic and pride, be involved?
There are all kinds of people in the world of men. As believers would or should it not make a difference to us that the other party is also in some measure a believer?

 

[Bob Estey]

You say that they will happen? Or do you mean that they should happen or that they might happen or...? Are there alternatives... and does Jesus in a person make a difference in his response?

Well, some people will give in to the temptation of returning the insult. That just makes things worse.

If we have done nothing wrong, why should someone's wrath bother us?

What purpose does it serve to reward people for insulting us? Did Jesus do that?

 

[Bob Estey]

Might not both, illogic and pride, be involved?
There are all kinds of people in the world of men. As believers would or should it not make a difference to us that the other party is also in some measure a believer?

If you break a discussion down to its simplest components, I think people can understand the logic.

 

[Enoch111]

What do you do when you are having a theological disagreement with someone, and they insult you? It seems to me it’s best to ignore the insult and explain where the other person’s logic is wrong.

That sounds reasonable, although a report to the mods wouldn't hurt either.