In regard to what Jesus said to Peter, it appears that the Apostle John's presumption is in error.

[ScottA]

I’m still sticking with when they wanted to call down fire to destroy, saying, “God, that one over there doesn’t follow us.” Where Jesus replied, “he that is not against Me, is for Me.” To be honest I’m struggle with many things said in the thread, but I also hear, I’m paraphrasing… “get alone with God and talk to Him. Stop going to man made religions and why not just go to God directly?” Or at least that is what I hear. I don’t hear evil being “change your mind”. If I’m being honest again …you have mentioned having been given a vision or traveling higher and so does @The Third One say something similar. When both of you say opposite, dissing one another for being “wrong”; how is one to know which is being forthcoming, and which is not? Personally, I wish you both were in agreement on this one thing: Christ. Then I might not be so confused…on the sidelines watching as two tear each others work or progress apart…which seems like no progress at all.

Jesus loved Peter but rebuked Satan in him. That is my stance against one who thinks and speaks as a man but also appoints himself as having authority. Meanwhile I have advised him to ramble less and say more, while he continues to speak against Paul. These things speak for themselves.

 

[face2face]

Jesus loved Peter but rebuked Satan in him. That is my stance against one who thinks and speaks as a man but also appoints himself as having authority. Meanwhile I have advised him to ramble less and say more, while he continues to speak against Paul. These things speak for themselves.

And satan (the adversary) is defined for you here:-
Matthew 16:23
For you are NOT setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.”
Don't you love it when Christ teaches you the meaning of a word?
The Apostle Paul shows the Devil was overcome through Christs death Hebrews 2:14
Enjoy!

 

[The Third One]

What a tag-Team. @ScottA and @L3astAmOngManyB13ss3d. (lol)

@L3astAmOngManyB13ss3d, writes:

“Please people, do not be fooled by the appearance of the light, even the devil can transform himself into such.

So step up to the task. Test everything. Carefully test every word that comes out of anyone’s mouth who claims to know the Living God; especially, anyone who claims to speak on behalf of the Kingdom of God. Yes, that includes me. You don’t know me from years and years of personal contact (eye-to-eye). Contraire. For two weeks, you have known me by my words (and by The Words) I’ve shared with you. So, for sure, ASSESS AWAY; although, if I may suggest, it’s still too early for JUDGEMENT.

Paul is no exception to his own rule — 1 Thessalonians 5:21 — after the plane crash at Romans 6:16, we should carefully test every word that comes to us from the cabin-speakers out of the cockpit of Captain Paul. As Paul says, hold on to what is GOOD. What is written that is NOT GOOD can be helpful as well, in that we may learn from it. Paul’s reversal does not “make Paul evil.” Nor does it make the Scriptures “wrong.”

For any Fundamentalist who still cannot get over Fundamentalism’s number one fundamental — “the inerrancy of Scripture” — may I submit to your stunning approval that there is no error at Romans 6:16.

Romans 6:16 is definitely a plane crash. And, Chapter Seven, that follows (gloom, doom and clinical depression) is definitely the aftermath of a plane crash.

A great lesson for ALL. What a huge difference there is, Living under Rocky’s supplemented We-Got-To-Righteously-Work-For-It-grace ... and Living under Jesus’ Cross-Bought-PERFECT-Grace.

The worst part of buying-into Romans 6:16 (or any diminishment of PERFECT-Grace) is the psychological damage one inflicts upon one’s own self. “Believe” this: Every time you buy-into any add-on (any “AND,” you are subconsciously sending a Grace-Destroying message to yourself:

Simply accepting what’s been done for me on the cross is NOT enough.

L3astAmOngManyB13ss3d continues:

“Mark those who walk contrary to the Word in an elited, self-promotory, ah-ha way.”

I have no idea what you are talking about, and I question whether you do either; for, there is no such word as “elited,” nor “promotory.” You are standing up on your aspersion-casting milk crate (for the third time now) and yelling, “People!”

“Please, people,” to be exact.

For what purpose? No one in here (whom we’ve heard from, thus far) seems gullible enough to take candy from a stranger.

It is one thing to test the Spirits, it is quite another thing to purposefully cast doubt upon what the Holy Spirit has compelled someone to announce to these people.

Before you get up on that milk crate of yours again, you should quietly consider two important facts:

One: the most Scripture-Knowledgeable people in Judea (mind you, the heart of Israel at the Time) called Jesus “the devil.”

And… Two: What is the main thrust of my theme?

I am asking each one of... you people... to truly accept what’s been done for us on the cross, so that you (every one of you) can KNOW, 100%, with NO DOUBT, that ALL of your sins (past, present and future) are simply no more — that ALL your sins have been taken AWAY.

There is not one thing more that needs to be added. Our Father has made things very simple for us. We are the ones who have made things so ridiculously complicated. ALL other important things will naturally take care of themselves once we truly accept one thing. What’s been done for us on the cross.

Jesus specifically caused certain people in the Gospels to KNOW that ALL of their sins and/or evil had been taken AWAY — for GOOD. Once that psychological breakthrough was accomplished and they KNEW that their sins were ALL gone, 100%, with no ifs, ands or buts... what did Jesus THEN tell these people?

Certainly NOT: Okay… now you need to do “this” AND “that” AND “the other thing,” BUT not “that” nor “this”… AND… IF you don’t “believe” in “this kind of dogma” or “that kind of dogma,” or... IF you were to ever go “here” or “there,” or “this way” or “that way,” you’ll lose what I’ve given you!

(Buzzer Sound!) Wrong. Go back to the Gospels and read what Jesus simply tells every one of these people who once were “sinful” and “evil” until they had the psychological handle of Jesus, standing right in front of them. What did Jesus simply tell them?

“Go in peace.”

We have something even more psychologically powerful than Jesus, standing right in front of us. We have the psychological handle he left for us. ALL we have to do is truly take it.

It’s a done deal. Not one more thing is required.

 

[The Third One]

L3astAmOngManyB13ss3d continues:

“God reveals himself in order by HIS WORD, not the declarations of man!”

What the Living God reveals to us is clear and simple; the Words of Jesus are the indisputable proof of that fact (his Words have, remarkably, come down to us relatively intact).

It is man that befuddles and complicates everything.

Therefore, do not wallow in ignorance of yet another indisputable fact: Every sentence of… “HIS WORD” as you call it (Word inspired by the Living God) was written by “man!” And, was compiled by “man!”

So, again, heed what our brother Paul warns. “Test everything.”

Best way for us to read it is for us to go back (as far back as we can) and read the original Greek and Hebrew. For, there is not one published version of “the Bible” translated into any modern language that has not been MANipulated to some degree.

The KJV is the most pristine version I’ve found. Yet, still, even the KJV is polluted with many disastrous OVERDUBS, consequential omissions and outright deletions. ALL of these editorial enhancements are fixed in place to the perverted agenda “of man!”

The New International Version (the NIV) is the most polluted version of Bible Scripture known to mankind. The NIV is so INFECTED with the blatant hand of Fundamental-Christian-Agenda, it should be called, the HIV Bible (instead of the NIV Bible). Sad thing is, the “HIV” is the most-read, most popular Bible in today’s world.

What a disaster.

Just being able to read the True Word of God would honestly inspire a complete refurbishing of Christian thought; and, yet, unfortunate as anything can be, it is Christian thought that has refurbished the Word of God.

L3astAmOngManyB13ss3d continues:

We must be as children; in innocence, in trust of our GOD, believing what HE instructs in his Word.

Our God is a LIVING God. He can ACTIVELY SPEAK to you.

Can you ACTIVELY LISTEN?

I mean, NOT with a block of cheese around your head.

So, do not be stupidly-innocent. Wake up. Open your ears. And, don’t forget to test everything.

Here is a very GOOD, Holy Spirit inspired test:

“Do ‘the words’ support what’s been done for you on the cross? Or do ‘the words’ deprecate what’s been done for you on the cross?”

Any required “AND,” on top of truly accepting what’s been done for us on the cross, deprecates what’s been done for us on the cross. In other words, anything we add to it, takes AWAY from it. By simply and truly accepting what’s been done for us on the cross, we gain EVERYTHING; for, we regain the one thing Jesus wants us to regain. Our PERFECTION.

Easier for a non-Christian to accept this Holy Truth than a Paul-Indoctrinated Mature-Christian.

Much easier to test a house than it is to test each and every individual board that makes up a house. Either way, L3astAmOngManyB13ss3d. Inspect me. You are welcome to do so. By my count, we are at 168 pages so far. Point out for me — and before the Living God and for the sake of these people — what lie have I told you?

My house is built with the wonderfully simple Words of Jesus — identical to the Words of our Father and His Holy Spirit.

L3astAmOngManyB13ss3d continues:

God reveals himself in order by HIS WORD, not the declarations of man!

We are in PERFECT agreement. So, make sure you are reading “HIS WORD” as it was spoken and originally written. Without ALL of the man-made OVERDUBS and man-made agendas of Mature-Christian Bible-Makers. And, learn the difference between “HIS WORD” coming through the inspired author’s transcript, and the author’s OWN COMMENTARY; or worse, the influence of Darkness upon the author; for as Paul spake the Truth: Team Darkness can fool even the best of us, by appearing as an angel of Light.

Paul did not read that in any previous Scripture; for, Paul was the first one of us to reduce that Truth to paper. Meaning, Paul personally experienced the Reality of that dilemma (the devil appearing to him as an angel of Light).

Am I a liar?

Ask the Holy Spirit. Ask the Living God to teach you how to test the Spirits. There are 28 Points for doing so. Ask and you shall receive. Test everything.

L3astAmOngManyB13ss3d continues:

“We are in the last days and many false ppl are coming into view. Do not be deceived by flattery, or even rebuke ; in like LET ME SHOW YOU WHAT REALLY IT IS GOD IS SAYING !”

IT is always “someone’s” interpretation of the Word of God. That is precisely why there are over 35,000 separate denominations of Christianity. IT is always LET ME SHOW YOU WHAT REALLY IT IS GOD IS SAYING !

Where do you get YOUR “ALL-knowing” statement? “We are in the last days.”

I will tell you exactly where you got it.

From your shepherds, who were Church-Taught, of course.

“Shepherds” have been feeding this “ALL-knowing” statement to the sheep for the last 2000 years. Jesus (the GOOD Shepherd) specifically tells his sheep not to worry about tomorrow. Yet, that is ALL these Eschatology-Flakes (like ScottA) base “the world in their minds” upon — the end of the world.

Today’s trouble is more than enough, with which to concern ourselves. (Matthew 6:34)

There are many “truths,” but there is only one “Truth.” As early as the first century, Team Darkness has turned many of Team Light’s meant-to-be shepherds into “truth-peddling” wolves in sheep’s clothing.

 

[The Third One]

As we ALL walk through Life, we each build our own perspective of “truth.” This applies to both the physical and the spiritual realms. Perhaps the most brilliant metaphor Jesus ever devised was one PERFECT Word to describe a person’s outward expression of his or her understanding of the universal, absolute Truth:

Jesus referred to it as a “house.”

Once a man’s house is up — up, at least, enough to put out the welcome mat — any contradiction within the structure left ignored will ultimately bring his house down.

A house divided against itself cannot stand.

If a man’s house is built on solid ground with an invincible foundation — pile beams struck deep into bedrock. Flawless lumber. Every angle PERFECTLY straight. He has a house that will stand firm against ALL comers. Against armies. Against hurricanes. Even against the water and wind of the Vanguard of Heaven itself.

No different with the house of an assembly of people.

Imagine a worldwide institution, claiming to speak for Jesus, that has built its foundation and its entire philosophy upon the opposite of “ALL.”

We don’t have to imagine it. However, we do have to imagine how much further along humanity would be right now if, right from the start, these wonderfully simple words of Jesus, “ALL” and “EVERYONE,” had been heard, embraced and acted upon for the benefit of ALL and with a genuine love for EVERYONE.

We would ALL (already) have a strong and splendid house to Live in.

ALL — each of us — loving ALL others as we love ourselves.

ALL — each of us — judging no one least we ALL be judged.

No greater house was ever built than the house of Jesus of Nazareth, a house with a foundation built upon “RANSOM,” “AWAY,” “PERFECT,” “FREEDOM” and “ALL” — “ALL” being the most inclusive Word within the Jesus Concept.

Matthew 7:24-25 (Original Greek) “Therefore who hears these Words of mine and doeth them will be compared to a wise man who built his house upon the rock. And came down the rain, and came the rivers, and the winds blew and beat against that house; and it did not fall: for it had been founded upon the rock.”

Either his Words in you remain... or... the Sin in you remains.

Imagine, choosing to continue to follow a man-made institution built upon the opposite of “ALL.” An institution that “believes” the Word “FREEDOM” means to embrace slavery. An institution that proclaims: “No one is PERFECT in this world.” An institution that has buried the Word “AWAY” — far AWAY. An institution that uses the word “satisfaction” to blot out the Word, “RANSOM”:

Matthew 7:26-27 (Original Greek) “And every one who hears these words of mine and does them NOT will be compared to a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand. And came down the rain, and came the rivers, and the winds blew and beat against that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.”

A house — the outward expression of one’s perspective of the Truth — is built with trees. “Trees” are principles, dogmas, promises and conclusions. And, trees bear fruit:

Matthew 7:15 (KJV) “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so, every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.”

These “false prophets” of whom Jesus speaks are not gurus, scientologists nor medicine men. They are not competitive messiahs promoting exotic Religions. Any "prophet" whose prediction lacks Jesus as the Way, the Truth and the Life is open and plain for ALL to see. What Jesus is particularly warning us about (with his “wolves-in-sheep’s-clothing” caution) are the false prophets and their assemblies which would follow in Jesus’ name, proclaiming Jesus as the Lord, the Way, the Truth and the Life.

 

[The Third One]

How do we recognize these wolves? Look beyond the paint job. Take a good look at the trees that make up their houses. And, take special care to examine the fruit that comes from the trees. You know, the “Progress Report.”

Specifically, those taught by the Christian Church teach: A “good tree” and a “corrupt tree” are Jesus’ way of comparing a good man to a corrupt man.

That is a falsehood. For, it is contradictory.

Jesus says:

“A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.”

This distinction is the dead giveaway that the “good tree” and the “corrupt tree” is not a metaphor for *Good* men and *Evil* men.

How do we know this for certain? Because, certainly by plan and/or by circumstance (cause and effect) it is quite possible for a seemingly “good man” to produce corrupted fruit and a seemingly “corrupted man” to produce good fruit. In addition (and listen carefully) men are always represented by “the soil” in Jesus’ analogies. Not by what comes up out of the soil.

@VictoryinJesus has not been arguing with the Truth. She is discovering the Truth! Not from silly old me. The Words of the Holy Spirit (that I have been blessed to share with you and, whether you realize it at this point or not, you have been blessed to hear) sparked a fire. The Living God in her Life is ACTIVELY REVEALING the Truth to her!

Have you been listening to @VictoryinJesus? I have:

“I’m considering it (the Lake of Fire) as beautiful and helpful: fearfulness first tossed in and burned up in the presence of God. No longer seeing this as a bad thing, but “Yes Please God, I agree, get rid of it.”

The Truth of her Words are clearly written throughout the Book of Revelation. For it is written that “the fearful” SHALL have THEIR PART in the Lake of Fire. “The Fearful” are first on the list. And, because of what’s been done for us on the cross, guess what “their part” in the Lake of Fire actually is? Zero. Granted, each of “the fearful” will remain outside the gates until each one of them can truly accept what’s been done for us on the cross. How much Time will it take, for each of them to do so? Time is Time. The same amount of Time it takes for each of you to do so RIGHT NOW. It can take two seconds, or it can take a million years.

The most important Truth that VictoryinJesus has come to realize, it is not “the fearful” (the human being, himself) that is tossed AWAY into Fire Lake; but, rather, “fearfulness” itself. The evil-conclusion, itself, is tossed into eternal destruction. For, long after the inspiration for every evil-conclusion (the 5 evil inspirers: the Beast, the False Prophet, the devil, Hell and Death) have ALL been tossed AWAY into Fire Lake, “the fearful” (human beings, specifically the fearful ones) and “the dogs” (human beings, specifically the Gentiles, who have yet to learn the Truth) are not thrashing in the Lake of Fire. Nope. *Read ALL about it!* This last group of human-holdouts (mostly made up of cheese-headed Mature Christians) are simply outside of “The Gates” of the Kingdom of God.

*Have you not read the Scriptures? There is one thing Jesus taught Peter that did stick with Peter forever, despite Paul’s influence: “God’s will is that none (no human being) will perish.”

That is the Truth, the whole Truth and not one more thing but the Truth. Even the Gentile-Christian-"Dog." He will be given enough Time to get well and learn the Truth. Without question, the Mature-Christian “idolater” (who still insists on holding “his BIBLE” above God) he will be given enough Time to learn the Truth. Without question, the Mature-Christian “whoremonger” (who continues to put his voluptuous CHURCH above God) he will be given enough Time to learn the Truth. Without question, the Mature-Christian “murderer” (who, in the name of “Christ” and “Christendom,” took Life and limb, and still finds it *Good* to have taken these Lives and limbs) he will be given enough Time to learn the Truth. And, without question, the Mature-Christian “lover and maker of lies” (who diminishes and deprecates the pure power of what’s been done for us on the cross), even he — to the person — will be given enough Time to learn the Truth. ALL of “them” (as Jesus simply refers to... them) will be given as much Time as it takes to learn the Truth. In the meantime, ALL these in “Quarantine” (still infected with the disease) will not be allowed to enter the city gates with the disease.

Why?

For the sake of ALL. This wisdom is twofold. First: Because, exactly like the cinematic Walking Dead, those infected with the disease are intent on infecting everyone else. And, second: No one is allowed to eat the fruit from The Tree of Life until the fruit he has eaten from The Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil is made entirely dead.

So then... what is the meaning of Jesus’ “trees”? Jesus is the master of ALL work. Jesus is the master carpenter. From the master carpenter’s perspective, trees represent wood. Jesus is expanding his warning to us in regard to the construction of a house.

Inspecting the construction of a person’s (or an assembly’s) house is the foolproof way to smoke out falsehood. Are the trees ALL true and solid? Are any of them bent and/or rotten? Does every tree fit PERFECTLY? From every angle? Most importantly, look at the fruit the tree produces. In other words, before blindly accepting an assembly’s “belief” system, put their principles, dogmas, promises and conclusions to the test. Take special care to look at the effect of its application. What fruit is produced?

Truth? Or falsehood?

One variety of Truth is FREEDOM. The sweetest of this fruit, being “FREE-Indeed.”

What is the opposite condition of this absolute Truth?

Being a Slave. The most bitter and rotten of this fruit, being a Slave to Sin. Try not to gag from the smell, for there is a fly-orgy mating on this fruit:

“I have a continual war with SIN in my life.”

“To defeat SIN, I need to walk out my salvation every day.”

“I need to die to self to kill the SIN in my life.”

“To continuously cleanse myself of SIN, I need to continually confess and repent of my SINS.”

I have been pleading with you (right from the start) to open your eyes. Geese, my bad. Perhaps I should have suggested for you to open your nose.

 

[The Third One]

“Truth” is where Jesus and the Christian Church part company. Jesus passes the test. Open your eyes, ears and nose already. Do a stadium sound check on one of the BIG trees in the foundation of Jesus’ house. It happens to be a big, sacred promise:

“And I — if I — am lifted up from the earth, I will draw ALL men to myself.”

The fruit that comes from this tree is the deliverance of EVERYONE from Death.

There is a huge difference between a false prophet (a son of MAN, born of a woman, made of flesh, blood and bone) and “the False Prophet” (the daughter of The Knowledge of Good & Evil, the mouthpiece of the Beast). The False Prophet is made up of principles, dogmas, promises and conclusions. After tasting the fruit that comes from “And I — if I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw ALL men to myself”… which conclusion makes more sense? Jesus looks forward to seeing the false principles of a false prophet cast into an everlasting fire? Or Jesus looks forward to seeing the man (the false prophet himself) cast into an everlasting fire? We have yet to begin our discussion of “ALL”; yet, I would think the answer should be clear and obvious.

In every instance, the “corrupt trees,” the “tares” and the “bundles” in Jesus’ parables represent false principles, false dogmas, false words inserted, true Words falsely omitted, false promises and false conclusions. Strikingly, this is exactly how Religion is made: with principles, dogmas, words chosen to be inserted, Words chosen to be omitted, promises and conclusions.

The captain of Team Light says, “Let tomorrow worry about tomorrow.” We — I say “we” in presumption that you are (or you would at least like to be) a member of Team Light) — we have enough trouble on our plate already... today.

Christianity is a multi-denominational high-rise-district super-skyscraper — a skyscraper made up of many houses. Many houses made up of many trees. A crooked tree producing bad fruit should be hewed out. Carefully, if possible, so as not to damage any good trees.

But, what if a crooked tree is corrupt through and through and is being used as an enormous foundation beam? What if this totally corrupt, gargantuan tree is the ultimate support beam of Christian groundwork? Literally, holding up the skyscraper?

Take another bite out of that age-old, rancid piece of fruit: ONLY “THE WORTHY CHRISTIAN” WILL BE SAVED, THE REST OF HUMANITY WILL BURN FOREVER AS ETERNAL FIRE FODDER. This is horribly rotted fruit that comes from a totally corrupt tree. A totally corrupted tree needs to be removed and thrown out, even if it causes the entire high-rise to implode upon itself and fall to the ground — the whole kit and caboodle fit for nothing more than a bonfire.

That can be difficult to accept. Even heartbreaking. Considering, from the homeowner’s perspective, these trees have, for so long, been built into one’s own house. These are huge redwoods “believed” to have been successfully pile-driven into solid bedrock — when in fact; they are rotted sequoias that have been mistakenly pounded into nothing but sand. There is no sense in crying, stretched out face-down in the ruin of one’s house. That can cause one’s soul to wither. It is just a house. It can always be rebuilt.

Jesus’ parables are not about separating men from men. His parables are about separating Truth from falsehood.

Jesus’ parables are about separating straight and true conclusions from bent and corrupt conclusions.

Likewise, our Heavenly Father’s plan is certainly not a premeditated filicide that culminates with the throwing of “corrupt men” into everlasting flames.

And for your info, I do not claim to be “a prophet.”

The name of the last prophet (that I’m aware of) is: Jesus of Nazareth. From the beginning of this thread til now, I have been desperately trying to get you to wake up and SEE... exactly… what it is… he predicted.

L3astAmOngManyB13ss3d concludes, by writing:

“Study the Word for yourself with the Spirit of God's leading, pray for enlightenment of the Word by his Spirit, and simply TRUST GOD !”

I agree 100%.

If I could just tack on to those good instructions, one small bit of advise: LISTEN.

It does a person no good to “pray for enlightenment” if that person is unwilling to LISTEN to the Holy Spirit. Unable to LISTEN is another problem (rampant) and plaguing the vast majority of our thread participants (VictoryinJesus, being the only exception I've noticed thus far). Step out of the Box. And, lose that block of cheese, two inches thick and stuck around your head.

The Holy Spirit has a lot to say.

Try LISTENING.

 

[The Third One]

@ScottA writes:

1. "Many shall come..." and here you are rambling on venting your pet peeves and philosophies with a different gospel, which is wrong. Not entirely but including just enough truth to seem plausible. Yet to blather on so is not unlike after Jesus had told His disciples He would be killed, and Peter said, “Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!” To which Jesus answered and said, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”
   
   Likewise, you too are not so much mindful of the things of God, but of the things of men...for which I will tell you, you are wrong about what God has done, for it is written:

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things.’

Thus, it is not as you the self-proclaimed Third One says, not that things have gone terribly wrong, but rather that God has intentionally created it so--so that "all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose." And no, Jesus did not leave us "FREEDOM" (as you say), but rather as He said, “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword." Which He explained to Paul (whom you despise) was for the [intended] purpose of prolonging the times "until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled", and because His "strength is made perfect in weakness.”

Nor are babes born "innocent" but "each according to his kind."


Hi there @ScottA,

Yes, it is a “different gospel” alright. Different than the one you’ve been taught, my stone-deaf friend. And, so… you say the gospel I promote is “wrong.” A pity you do not recognize it. It is the Gospel of Jesus. To you, the Words I use... just keep “rambling on.” I commend you for what you HAVE read of it, but for you -- to continue on and onward, reading it -- it remains monotonous for you. For, the Words are not “Faith-Agreeable” to your particular liking.

I must say, you have written outright lies that need to be called out.

I never said that I despise Paul. Throughout this thread, I’ve said quite the opposite. Even if it is merely your opinion that “I despise him,” even THAT does not change the fact that your insinuation is a complete falsehood.

I never said, “things have gone terribly wrong.” I said: Jesus predicted that Paul would gird Peter and lead him off as a Slave. I recently posted Romans 6:16 as the undisputed proof of that prediction. ALL of what I have recently revealed to you about Romans 6:16, remains entirely undisputed, here, in this room. Paul gives Peter (and ALL the rest of us) two roads that lead to Slavery. Which led to a cornucopia of theological error and a useless, misguided Church. Anyone unfamiliar with the Scriptures and completely outside “the Church,” would agree with the premise of your argument… Wow! It sure looks like... “things have gone terribly wrong.”

However, I am in complete agreement with your simple (yet ultimate) conclusion. ALL things work together for good. I suppose it could very well be seen as *good* for a manmade, misguided Church to self destruct. (We can only hope that everyone gets out before the rotten place implodes upon itself.)

Good always to see the *good* in things. Especially, so that we men can offer “manly” insight... for ALL the men who might ask, “Why?”

Why would God allow a plane crash in the middle of His Holy Word?

Okay. I’ll take a “manly” stab at answering that question. A question best not asked nor answered. But, I have His permission. What was it you called that it in your last little post? "Authority"? Hmmm. Perhaps. In any case, I MY humble yet considered opinion: these things should be left in God’s hand... way above the Tenth Floor. Here goes...

Why would God allow a plane crash in the middle of His Holy Word?

Manly Answer: Perhaps for the same reason aeronautics engineers strap test-dummies into First Class, Business Class and Economy Class seating; mount live-feed TV cameras at every possible angle outside and inside the aircraft; fly the multi-million dollar jet into the friendly skies of blue by remote control; and then, turn the Boeing Heavy around, only to purposefully crash it to pieces ALL over the runway in a breathtaking fireball.

To learn.

Romans, Chapter Seven (gloom, doom and clinical depression) immediately follows the Plane Crash. Boy, now that’s a lesson for ALL of us: What a huge difference there is in Living under Paul’s supplemented We-Got-To-Righteously-Work-For-It-grace… and Living under Jesus’ Cross-Bought-PERFECT-Grace.

You brought it up, so let’s get into it. Why did Jesus tell Peter, “Get behind me, Satan!”?

Because, Peter was literally standing in Jesus’ way. “Mindful of the things of men” was Peter stopping Jesus in the middle of the road, so Jesus would never have to see the cross. “Mindful of the things of God” was Jesus marching to the cross.

Scott, what are your “philosophies” that come from quoting Scripture verses that prove that God is in charge of everything? Sit on your ass and sing “Que Sera Sera” ALL day long?

What are your “pet peeves”? Obviously, you, too, are convinced that these are “the end times,” and so, what? It really galls you to see someone trying to give the Jesus Concept a decent try for a couple years? Why? Because it might spoil your self-fulfilling Armageddon-Concept that you’ve come to love and embrace?

Have you considered that Jesus may be talking about the kind of "fight" that you and I are having right now, when he said, “I did not come to bring peace but a sword.”

Do you have a sensory input problem? Why do you keep misquoting me? I never said Jesus “left us FREEDOM.”

 

[The Third One]

Total FREEDOM is one of the many wonderful things a person gains by truly accepting what’s been done for us on the cross. Are you suggesting by your “sword”-quote, that Jesus does not promote FREEDOM? Uh… as in “The Truth shall (not) set you FREE”?

Then again, it stands to reason that you would think that FREEDOM is the curse of the devil! You “believe” that the totally destructive and incarcerating mindset we’ve been duped into creating (and perpetuating) directly from gaining The Knowledge of Good & Evil… is a “gift from God.”

Dude. You are as wrong as the idiotic Pharisees with whom Jesus knocked heads. Let’s get this straight. You really “believe” that a fatal mental disease that leads to DEATH (from a Tree our Father in Heaven warned us never to touch)… is a gift from God ???

Not to diminish… your parting idiocy: “Nor are babes born ‘innocent’ but ‘each according to his kind’.”

What’s the deal? Are you an avid student of Calvin? Are you convinced that humanity is inherently *evil*? That we come into this world as sacks of depraved garbage? Don’t tell me — you also “believe” in the non-Biblical, man-made philosophy of “Original Sin” and “The Fall of Man”? And, that only certain men will be “saved” — separated out from the whole of mankind — and the rest are destined for eternal destruction?

If you will read the actual language of the Parable of the Net, you will learn that Jesus cannot possibly be talking about separating men from out of the whole of mankind.

Why?

Because MAN (humankind as a whole) is a “kind” or “thing” ALL unto himself — a GOOD thing. And, remember, “the GOOD things” they put into a container and “the rotten things” they threw out.

I’ll be nice and save you the trouble of finding a Greek-English Interlinear New Testament Text. I’ll post it right here for you. Now... let’s reread the parable translated Word-for-Word from Koine Greek into Word-for-Word English:

“Again, the Kingdom of the Heavens is like a net having been cast into the lake and from every kind it gathered. Which when it was filled having been pulled up on the shore and having sat down they collected the good things into a container, and the rotten things they threw out. Thus it will be at the end of the age. The angels will go out and they will separate the evil from among the righteous and they will throw them into the furnace of fire. In that place there will be wailing and gnashing of the teeth.”

In the beginning and in the end, ALL of humankind is made PERFECTLY righteous. Jesus promises us that he will draw ALL humankind to himself and raise us up on the last day.

This Truth (ALL of humankind made PERFECTLY righteous) remains faultless from the beginning of time. God looked at His Creation and, along with the trees, the sky and the earth, the Lord found humankind to be very GOOD — PERFECTLY righteous:

Genesis 1:31 (NIV) “God saw ALL that He had made and it was VERY GOOD.”

Whatever anyone else has to say against humankind — no matter what the accusation — it is a waste of breath and yesterday’s news.

“Original Sin” and “The Fall of Man” are man-made fairytales. What MAN actually acquired is a thoroughly, completely and irrevocably rotten thinking problem. The Bible calls IT “The Knowledge of Good & Evil.” Jesus calls IT “The Kidnapping,” the cure for such a predicament being… what?

RANSOM.

We are what we think. Left to our own devices, the hole we have thrown ourselves into helps the Miserable Comforter break our souls by teaching us to see our core self as “irrevocably rotten.” The Living God has the GOOD cure for this harsh, demoralizing lash of Slavery. RANSOM. Because of ALL of us truly accepting what’s been done for us on the cross, ultimately, ALL of humankind is remade very GOOD — PERFECTLY righteous.

The key to this wisdom is found in the first sentence of the parable. “...from every kind it gathered.” The Church is so terribly bent toward its “Men-Will-Be-Separated-From-Men” agenda, it starts and finishes everything in that context. There are no limits to Religion perpetuating this fanaticism. The pilots in charge of steering the airplane have no problem changing Jesus’ words to better compliment their false conclusions. Do you still find that unbelievable?

The NIV Bible (yep... the HIV Bible) expands the Greek wording in The Parable of the Net from “every kind” to “ALL kinds of fish.”

Matthew 13:47 (NIV) “Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught ALL kinds of fish.”

This changes the entire gist of the parable to mean that fish are now being separated from fish — as opposed to what Jesus actually said. Nowhere in this parable does Jesus say that a “kind” is separated from itself: as in fish being separated from fish (or men being separated from men). On the contrary, Jesus specifically says that the “rotten things” (kinds or things, each, entirely unto itself) will be separated from the “good things.” The “rotten things” are other “kinds” of things. Each, entirely unto itself. For instance, a rotten tire or a rotten beer bottle is removed from the net, leaving the good catch a fisherman wants to put into his live-well.

In PERFECT consistency, The Parable of the Net is, yet, another model of Jesus’ vision of humankind as a whole — ALL.

Humankind is a unique “kind” (or thing) ALL unto ourselves. We are a very GOOD thing. Same as the sky is a very GOOD thing. Same as the trees are a very GOOD thing. These are ALL “VERY GOOD” things, according to our Father.

Each particular ROTTEN thing fits the same pattern, a “kind” or thing ALL unto itself. Such as: how trash (the tossed beer bottle or the discarded tire) compares to the fish.

 

[The Third One]

Likewise, the five ROTTEN things destined for Fire Lake are each entirely different things, in and of themselves, in comparison to MAN. “The Beast” is a different kind or thing than is a man. “The False Prophet” is a different kind or thing than is a man. “The devil” is a different kind or thing than is a man. “Hell” is a different kind or thing than is a man. And, “Death” is a different kind or thing than is a man.

By the actual language of the parable, Jesus cannot possibly be talking about separating men from out of the whole of mankind.

Why?

Because MAN (humankind as a whole) is a “kind” or “thing” ALL unto himself — a GOOD thing. And, remember, “the GOOD things” they put into a container and it is only “the rotten things” they threw out.

 

[farouk]

Well, off to a rocky start here.
Trying to annull or say the Word is incorrect in John's writing the words he wrote.
An intimate disciple of Jesus, a man whom loved and was loved by Jesus, John. Whom was trustworthy enough to be given the Revelation of Christ.

So please what is your assumption and why is John wrong ?

Good point there, @L3astAm0ngManyB13ss3d The trustworthiness of Scripture is so important....

 

[L.A.M.B.]

A total waste of breath, and yep yesterday's news, which is either trashed or used in the kitty litter pan !
They come a dime a dozen carrying a new banner, a new gospel and a new faith.

This BALDERDASH is the same as all cultic hogwash and far worse than some others. This poster is iggy bound,same as the other cults

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Can we, as Mature-Christians, handle the God’s-honest Truth? (Brace yourself.) Paul never stopped being what he is, and the first five and-a-half chapters of Romans is a Holy Spirit-Inspired “miracle.” What Paul never stopped being is a Pharisee-Extremist. What he became in Christianity is not much different.

On the other hand, what the Holy Spirit has never stopped being is the absolute God’s Honest Truth. The Holy Spirit cannot lie. The Holy Spirit cannot contradict. Would you be brave enough to do one thing for your Holy Spirit?

Wake up.

reading here as the thread moves along, a few things stand out:

Paul never stopped being what he is, and the first five and-a-half chapters of Romans is a Holy Spirit-Inspired “miracle.”
First keep in mind that Paul is one of my favorites. So some things you said are very difficult for me to read. why is Paul one of my favorites? Because to me it is Gods acceptance of one of the worst of the worst. For example how we often adore the mercy of how even whores are accepted, or how God looks past what they have done and sees something of value. Movies are written about such stories, but then at the same time in real life.. acceptance of the worst of the worst is not too favorable to think of; unless man can for sure know there is something good there worth saving. But yeah, it is hard to read further down where you mention who really appeared as an angel of light to Saul; on the road. It is things like that, that having me backing up. It is not new as I've heard that it wasn't Jesus who appeared to Paul but another...another disguising himself as an angel of light. BUT I've always been on the side saying "No! It was Jesus Christ." I'm sharing that with you to not debate or argue but to let you know; that is why I start to back away there...

YET, I really loved what you shared here. In all these, in italics, beginning with; Paul never stopped being what he is, and the first five and-a-half chapters of Romans is a Holy Spirit-Inspired “miracle.”

what it says to me...right or wrong.. is: that even though Paul is 'what he is', how even though I may be wrong about the plane crash not seeing it, or even wrong about the road, or even not wanting to fully accept what is truly there yet...how even if Paul does indeed fully plummet and crash the plane...I LOVE how significant what you shared is(if I understood correctly), the message of Grace there in the first of Romans:


What Paul never stopped being is a Pharisee-Extremist.

What he became in Christianity is not much different.

On the other hand, what the Holy Spirit has never stopped being is the absolute God’s Honest Truth.

The Holy Spirit cannot lie.

The Holy Spirit cannot contradict.

One thing that has stood out to me lately is where Paul spoke of being 'chief'...for the longest time I saw that as simply 'chief' of sinners. but recently it has become much more significant with "Chief" among "Pharisees". but what I'm saying that is so significant about what you shared about the first 6 chapters of Romans is this: whether you are right about seeing the plane crash, or the road, or about the girding of Peter...that at the end of it what is more important is:

On the other hand, what the Holy Spirit has never stopped being is the absolute God’s Honest Truth. ​

​

 

[VictoryinJesus]

In the middle of Romans, Chapter Six, at last (and unfortunately), this is... now... a big problem for our brother Paul. Why? Because (along with even darker voices) Paul still has “the Pharisees” in him. You can take the man out of the Pharisees, but not the Pharisees out of the man. To a Pharisee, it is ALL about THE LAW. A Pharisee loses his mind to THE LAW (exactly why the extremists among them were livid with murderous rage over Jesus healing people on the Sabbath). For the sake of Gentile Christian Evangelism, Paul will loosen his belt here and there for “the greater good,” but, SIN, itself, and how it relates to THE LAW, is a whole other matter.

Paul was strictly taught, when it comes to SIN, nothing is more powerful than THE LAW.

And, yet, specifically, the Holy Spirit has just told us (through Paul’s open pen, no less) that PERFECT-Grace is more powerful than the Law.

The way Pharisee-Paul sees it, what’s been done for us on the cross has just become a religious impasse. A slap-in-the-face to ALL theological reason. And, so... Paul takes it upon himself to fix the cross. Instead of bravely upholding the previous five and-a-half chapters of Romans, Paul fearfully throws the gears into reverse.

Paul still has “the Pharisees” in him.
Makes me think of a passage in Romans 7:16-20 in regard to "Paul still has "the Pharisees" in him."
... "but that sin nature that lives in me."

What you said concerning Paul still being an Pharisee extremist...
to me there is something there in
"that which I want to do, I do not.
and that which I don't want to do, that I do."

something there because others may come and attack what you've share here.
concerning Paul; as ridiculous. Me included … but then I'm wondering...how is it different than the endless debates over what Paul said:

that which I want to do, I do not.

and that which I don't want to do, that I do.

OR Romans 7:21-24 - ²¹ So I find it to be the law [of my inner self], that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. ²² For I joyfully delight in the law of God in my inner self [with my new nature], ²³ but I see a different law and rule of action in the members of my body [in its appetites and desires], waging war against the law of my mind and subduing me and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is within my members. ²⁴ Wretched and miserable man that I am!

which becomes either...Paul couldn't stop sinning. And we go around quoting “I am just a wretched sinner saved by Grace”
As Saul/Paul …an had an extremist Pharisee traveling along, speaking in his ear? Where no matter how hard Paul tried, he just couldn’t ever get free from the "extremist'? OR the other side of the debate... "no that is not Paul giving or promoting a license to sin!" but instead: "you need to work harder." …I don't know, so confused there. ​

Also like: ​

Paul was strictly taught, when it comes to SIN, nothing is more powerful than THE LAW.

the way Pharisee-Paul sees it, what’s been done for us on the cross has just become a religious impasse. A slap-in-the-face to ALL theological reason. And, so... Paul takes it upon himself to fix the cross. Instead of bravely upholding the previous five and-a-half chapters of Romans, Paul fearfully throws the gears into reverse.

And, yet, specifically, the Holy Spirit has just told us (through Paul’s open pen, no less) that PERFECT-Grace is more powerful than the Law.
which reminds me of: 'mercy rejoices against Judgement.' which also I think lines up with what you shared concerning the first 6 chapters of Romans, that The Holy Spirit does not stop being the Holy Spirit.​

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Jesus’ parables are not about separating men from men. His parables are about separating Truth from falsehood.

agree. although everything that is pushed and asserted as true; is always, always the separating of Men from men. then "everlasting" fire becomes a debated "everlasting torment" of "how long will my loved ones who haven't accepted burn in Hell?" …"well...Forever"
to me even the "everlasting" is hopeful: as in completing, wholly, everlastingly ... all falsehoods stopped, destroyed and put to an complete Everlasting end. Falsehoods...you asked reader a question of which is more likely? (can't find or remember the exact words). either God destroying men in an ALL consuming fire along with piercing cries of everlasting torment that never ceases..

or falsehoods?

to me one says "everlasting" is regarding "time" which never ceases to exists … as in God never ceases to torment or fully stop, disintegrating into ash, or completely destroying...but ongoingly God takes mankind and twists mankind, mangled like the pictures drawn of hell, twisting bodily the unaccepting of mankind into tormented screams...God never ending or ceasing the punishment of His Wrath … Hell=never fulfilled.

or "Everlasting" to me takes on a new meaning concerning false-hoods...where how long will they (falsehoods)not rise back up? Everlasting.
instead of God being never fulfilled...
His being fulfilled everlasting. when all the falsehood spoken against Him … decreases into ash?

 

[ScottA]

Before you get up on that milk crate of yours again, you should quietly consider two important facts:

One: the most Scripture-Knowledgeable people in Judea (mind you, the heart of Israel at the Time) called Jesus “the devil.”

And… Two: What is the main thrust of my theme?

I am asking each one of... you people... to truly accept what’s been done for us on the cross, so that you (every one of you) can KNOW, 100%, with NO DOUBT, that ALL of your sins (past, present and future) are simply no more — that ALL your sins have been taken AWAY.

There is not one thing more that needs to be added. Our Father has made things very simple for us. We are the ones who have made things so ridiculously complicated. ALL other important things will naturally take care of themselves once we truly accept one thing. What’s been done for us on the cross.

Jesus specifically caused certain people in the Gospels to KNOW that ALL of their sins and/or evil had been taken AWAY — for GOOD. Once that psychological breakthrough was accomplished and they KNEW that their sins were ALL gone, 100%, with no ifs, ands or buts... what did Jesus THEN tell these people?

Certainly NOT: Okay… now you need to do “this” AND “that” AND “the other thing,” BUT not “that” nor “this”… AND… IF you don’t “believe” in “this kind of dogma” or “that kind of dogma,” or... IF you were to ever go “here” or “there,” or “this way” or “that way,” you’ll lose what I’ve given you!

(Buzzer Sound!) Wrong. Go back to the Gospels and read what Jesus simply tells every one of these people who once were “sinful” and “evil” until they had the psychological handle of Jesus, standing right in front of them. What did Jesus simply tell them?

“Go in peace.”

We have something even more psychologically powerful than Jesus, standing right in front of us. We have the psychological handle he left for us. ALL we have to do is truly take it.

It’s a done deal. Not one more thing is required.

That makes a good recap (only with less rattling on). So, let's look at it:

1. Yes the most learned of Israel called Jesus a devil. But that is not what is happening here--not what you have done.

2. As for "the main thrust of [your] theme", what you have done is you have broken from the whole word of God (as if likewise calling Paul a devil)...and it is silly. You say, we don't "need to do “this” AND “that” AND “the other thing,” BUT not “that” nor “this”… AND… IF you don’t “believe” in “this kind of dogma” or “that kind of dogma”, etc., and Paul said much the same thing about those who called Jesus a devil and about the law which Jesus came to fulfill and did fulfill. But instead of agreeing with Paul for saying much the same thing--you act as though he is not sent by Christ but by Satan. You have not only accused him--you're being ridiculous...for if he was wrong--so are you.
​

Not unlike Paul then, you have come to the same juncture as Paul following "what’s been done for us on the cross" and are attempting to push him out of the way and tell it all your own way. And no one is saying, "Bravo!" Go figure.

Nonetheless, as VictoryinJesus pointed out quoting Jesus...you are not [actually] against us but for us. It's just that you are off the reservation with your stance on Paul...and therefore also Christ and God for having chosen and sent him.

The reality that both Paul and you have come to is that juncture following the cross--that fork in the road set before the church by Christ, which was that same choice between life and death God set before Adam and Eve, and Moses set before Israel. Well now it is our turn--the times of the gentiles to choose. And you are right--the early church and now it's followers have not embraced "what’s been done for us on the cross." But you've got the wrong guy. Paul is not to blame--in fact he simply got the job of orchestrating the two-step that followed the real culprits--which were the "false teachers" foretold by Peter, who entered into the early church promoting false doctrine and the "lie" which Paul spoke of causing "strong delusion." The rest is history.

And it is good that you have rejected what has come as a result. Many of us feel the same way--only different ;)

Here is the root of the actual departure that took place, set before the church by Christ:

When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”
14 So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
20 Then He commanded His disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ.

21 From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.
22 Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, “Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!”
23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.” Matthew 16:13-23​

The [actual] departure was choosing "flesh and blood" and "not" the "Father" (highlighted above). Instead of choosing the Spirit which Jesus promised to send, they chose "flesh and blood" for these many generations to follow--and follow they/we did.

Even so, even though the error has effected these many generations, Paul did well to explain (just as what men among Israel meant for evil, "God meant it for good") that "all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose." That purpose being the salvation of these many generations.

Notice also that it was immediately after this that Satan began to enter into the church (vs. 23), starting with Peter.

 

[ScottA]

@ScottA writes:

1. "Many shall come..." and here you are rambling on venting your pet peeves and philosophies with a different gospel, which is wrong. Not entirely but including just enough truth to seem plausible. Yet to blather on so is not unlike after Jesus had told His disciples He would be killed, and Peter said, “Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!” To which Jesus answered and said, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”
   
   Likewise, you too are not so much mindful of the things of God, but of the things of men...for which I will tell you, you are wrong about what God has done, for it is written:

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things.’

Thus, it is not as you the self-proclaimed Third One says, not that things have gone terribly wrong, but rather that God has intentionally created it so--so that "all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose." And no, Jesus did not leave us "FREEDOM" (as you say), but rather as He said, “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword." Which He explained to Paul (whom you despise) was for the [intended] purpose of prolonging the times "until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled", and because His "strength is made perfect in weakness.”

Nor are babes born "innocent" but "each according to his kind."


Hi there @ScottA,

Yes, it is a “different gospel” alright. Different than the one you’ve been taught, my stone-deaf friend. And, so… you say the gospel I promote is “wrong.” A pity you do not recognize it. It is the Gospel of Jesus. To you, the Words I use... just keep “rambling on.” I commend you for what you HAVE read of it, but for you -- to continue on and onward, reading it -- it remains monotonous for you. For, the Words are not “Faith-Agreeable” to your particular liking.

I must say, you have written outright lies that need to be called out.

I never said that I despise Paul. Throughout this thread, I’ve said quite the opposite. Even if it is merely your opinion that “I despise him,” even THAT does not change the fact that your insinuation is a complete falsehood.

I never said, “things have gone terribly wrong.” I said: Jesus predicted that Paul would gird Peter and lead him off as a Slave. I recently posted Romans 6:16 as the undisputed proof of that prediction. ALL of what I have recently revealed to you about Romans 6:16, remains entirely undisputed, here, in this room. Paul gives Peter (and ALL the rest of us) two roads that lead to Slavery. Which led to a cornucopia of theological error and a useless, misguided Church. Anyone unfamiliar with the Scriptures and completely outside “the Church,” would agree with the premise of your argument… Wow! It sure looks like... “things have gone terribly wrong.”

However, I am in complete agreement with your simple (yet ultimate) conclusion. ALL things work together for good. I suppose it could very well be seen as *good* for a manmade, misguided Church to self destruct. (We can only hope that everyone gets out before the rotten place implodes upon itself.)

Good always to see the *good* in things. Especially, so that we men can offer “manly” insight... for ALL the men who might ask, “Why?”

Why would God allow a plane crash in the middle of His Holy Word?

Okay. I’ll take a “manly” stab at answering that question. A question best not asked nor answered. But, I have His permission. What was it you called that it in your last little post? "Authority"? Hmmm. Perhaps. In any case, I MY humble yet considered opinion: these things should be left in God’s hand... way above the Tenth Floor. Here goes...

Why would God allow a plane crash in the middle of His Holy Word?

Manly Answer: Perhaps for the same reason aeronautics engineers strap test-dummies into First Class, Business Class and Economy Class seating; mount live-feed TV cameras at every possible angle outside and inside the aircraft; fly the multi-million dollar jet into the friendly skies of blue by remote control; and then, turn the Boeing Heavy around, only to purposefully crash it to pieces ALL over the runway in a breathtaking fireball.

To learn.

Romans, Chapter Seven (gloom, doom and clinical depression) immediately follows the Plane Crash. Boy, now that’s a lesson for ALL of us: What a huge difference there is in Living under Paul’s supplemented We-Got-To-Righteously-Work-For-It-grace… and Living under Jesus’ Cross-Bought-PERFECT-Grace.

You brought it up, so let’s get into it. Why did Jesus tell Peter, “Get behind me, Satan!”?

Because, Peter was literally standing in Jesus’ way. “Mindful of the things of men” was Peter stopping Jesus in the middle of the road, so Jesus would never have to see the cross. “Mindful of the things of God” was Jesus marching to the cross.

Scott, what are your “philosophies” that come from quoting Scripture verses that prove that God is in charge of everything? Sit on your ass and sing “Que Sera Sera” ALL day long?

What are your “pet peeves”? Obviously, you, too, are convinced that these are “the end times,” and so, what? It really galls you to see someone trying to give the Jesus Concept a decent try for a couple years? Why? Because it might spoil your self-fulfilling Armageddon-Concept that you’ve come to love and embrace?

Have you considered that Jesus may be talking about the kind of "fight" that you and I are having right now, when he said, “I did not come to bring peace but a sword.”

Do you have a sensory input problem? Why do you keep misquoting me? I never said Jesus “left us FREEDOM.”

I have been charitable in my dealings with you, and also given you that which you have missed, while you are known by your fruit.

Now I will tell you a ternary parable--which is also written, but now is fulfilled in you, The Third One:

Jesus Predicts Peter’s Denial
31 Then Jesus said to them, “All of you will be made to stumble because of Me this night, for it is written:

‘I will strike the Shepherd,
And the sheep of the flock will be scattered.’​

32 But after I have been raised, I will go before you to Galilee.”
33 Peter answered and said to Him, “Even if all are made to stumble because of You, I will never be made to stumble.”
34 Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you that this night, before the rooster crows, you will deny Me three times.” Matthew 21:31-34

The Prayer in the Garden
36 Then Jesus came with them to a place called Gethsemane, and said to the disciples, “Sit here while I go and pray over there.” 37 And He took with Him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and He began to be sorrowful and deeply distressed. 38 Then He said to them, “My soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even to death. Stay here and watch with Me.”
39 He went a little farther and fell on His face, and prayed, saying, “O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will.”
40 Then He came to the disciples and found them sleeping, and said to Peter, “What! Could you not watch with Me one hour? 41 Watch and pray, lest you enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.”
42 Again, a second time, He went away and prayed, saying, “O My Father, if this cup cannot pass away from Me unless I drink it, Your will be done.” 43 And He came and found them asleep again, for their eyes were heavy.
44 So He left them, went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words. 45 Then He came to His disciples and said to them, “Are you still sleeping and resting? Behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of Man is being betrayed into the hands of sinners. 46 Rise, let us be going. See, My betrayer is at hand.” Matthew 26:36-46

Jesus Restores Peter
15 So when they had eaten breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me more than these?”
He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.”
He said to him, “Feed My lambs.”
16 He said to him again a second time, “Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?”
He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.”
He said to him, “Tend My sheep.”
17 He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?” Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, “Do you love Me?”
And he said to Him, “Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You.”
Jesus said to him, “Feed My sheep. 18 Most assuredly, I say to you, when you were younger, you girded yourself and walked where you wished; but when you are old, you will stretch out your hands, and another will gird you and carry you where you do not wish.” 19 This He spoke, signifying by what death he would glorify God. And when He had spoken this, He said to him, “Follow Me.” John 21:15-19
​

The third time they are also asleep. And yes, it is by no coincidence that the parable ends where you began.

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[VictoryinJesus]

@The Third One i do have some questions concerning whether to have "a conscience" or to not?

In considering conscience…i wanted to share two times “conscience” stands out to me in experiences. Both took place prior to any conversations here. The first is my daughter. She recently moved into a new place with her husband and children. They decided with the market so all over the place right now; to rent for a while. The landlord had just lost her father and instead of selling his home place...she decided also to rent it out for a while. she told our daughter that anything left in the home...any antiques, furniture, lamps..etc… you all are welcome to have; saying I've clean out already what I plan to keep.

I couldn't be there when they moved in so my daughter face-timed with me; walking me through on video the boys excitement over which room they would choose. while on video... the littlest one, he is 8, comes running up in front of the camera with his father doting two hands full of fanned out cash. I'm still on video as my daughter voices all the hundred dollar bills.. we both are seeing.. have to be fake. Her husband is beaming "no, they are real." Our daughter was becoming irritated at their happy-dancing around the room. her voice muffled to her husband, "do not encourage him," pertaining to their 8 year old. Who is shouting "jackpot!" It ended up being $4200 dollars they found in a drawer of one of the old dressers left. our son-in-law reasoned "well, she said we could have whatever was left."

My daughter said abruptly. “I have to go. I’m hanging up now.” Shortly after she called back to say "I texted our landlord to let her know about the money. She was thankful we told her."

I was glad too, telling our daughter "you did the right thing" because "I know you... and while yes … it would have been fun spending that cash or keeping it to help with bills making things SOOO much easier for several months...it would have eaten away at you eventually. It would have always been there in the back of your mind."

this is one example of conscience. the second is my mother (I've shared this many times here before). a while back I went through a period of going up in the woods alone to talk to God. Probably the most confused time I've ever been in. During those times of being alone, I asked God to "will you show me who I am". it was over a year of, piece by piece, asking, searching, praying...some changing of the mind. for instance prayers for God to heal my eyes so I didn't need to wear glasses any longer(don't ask why); maybe because to me (at the time)this was what healing looked like... but those prayers and the focus changed. when I asked "God, will you show me who I am." I truly meant "Help me see that you are my Father." "Help me see that I'm your daughter." at the time having an identity crisis of sorts, wishing or desiring to be any other woman but me.

which I think He graciously did … helping me see that He is my Father.. because it would help with what I never knew or saw was coming. Something I never expected within the "show me who I am." I never saw something which I should have seen, by all the clues or hints or whatever … something that was right in front of my face up until I was in my forties...but I never saw it. My oldest sister knew from a teenager and it was eating her up inside. I didn't know this, that it was eating her up inside. Something my brother knew but assumed I was well aware of it. I wasn't. and something my mother knew but kept buried. It was that I was an child of an affair … where even the man I was told up until his death was my father...he also knew I wasn't his from the time that I was born.

My oldest sister finally exploded after watching me wade through my history concerning my health...the doctors looking at hereditary possibilities. My oldest sister came forth saying "I just couldn't take you looking any longer...in the wrong place." My oldest sister said, "I kept waiting for mom to speak up...to tell you. But saw she wouldn't and wasn't ever planning to."

to me several things … good things...happened here.
One) I wasn't upset. I seriously was okay. All that time alone with God had helped, prepared even before...it come out.
two) my oldest sister no longer had to carry the burden of a lie which was saddled to her from a teenager who, at time was old enough to witness the affair.
Three) my mother and I could now talk openly about it. While she wailed (not over exaggerating) that it was no ones right but hers to tell me or not tell me...I could say "Look, I'm not hurt, mom. I'm glad I know. Do you not feel lighter; do you not feel better to not have to carry this secret around anymore?" I asked "hasn't this ate away at you for decades?" My mom said, "Nope! I buried it. I never thought about it again... not until you all got it stirred up." --this is why I'm asking about conscience??

My brothers stance was anger … calling at me "BS.. you knew. I thought everybody knew. There is no way you didn't know. Why did you have to go and stir this all up?" I'm thinking...what?... there is no way I planned this. I wasn’t planning to have a medical condition, or to be told this. My brother said, "you knew moms old and can't handle it. why didn't y' all just kept your mouths shut? because now she is crying over this." Truly I was stumped because I never EVER --expected find out I have three other brothers and a sister younger than me. there was a forth good thing that come out it … which I told my mother. My mother was convinced that if I was told; that I would love less the man I thought was my biological father. I told her "No! it is the opposite, mom." this man did not have to stay to be my father...even long after my mother and him divorced, up until his death...I was still treated as and called by him as...his daughter."

I'm sorry that is so long.

• But especially concerning my mother...I'm so confused over "conscience" because I wished she would have had one instead of pretending "well it just isn't there. Didn't happen. Let’s move on as no one was affected." At the time when this which had been hidden come out…I told mom over and over that I was ok and that I knew who my Father is. She asks “what do you mean? …who is your Father?” I would tell her “God is my Father.” Still to this day my mom asserts “God does not speak to people.” About conscience…what I learned was denying a thing as nonexistent or not there, not seeing it…doesn’t make it so. What I learned there was: that even the smallest lie can be ignored and maybe built upon other lies that continues to build a falsehood; which to me gives meaning to what it is to deceive yourself. but even while at first it may seem impossibly hard to own it or to bring it out even in the face of being too afraid…there can be freedom from the lie. Or at least those are my thoughts concerning conscience: that out of fear of what men will do it can push things further into darkness..or… to bring them out from the darkness into the light to be seen, lain open and faced.

 

[The Third One]

@VictoryinJesus writes:

“About conscience…what I learned was denying a thing as nonexistent or not there, not seeing it…doesn’t make it so.”

That depends entirely on the “thing.”

For instance, if the “thing” was never there to begin with — nothing but a delusion, only imagined. Conceptually invented. Like Harvey the Rabbit. “Denying” that such “a thing is nonexistent or not there,” is delusion.

Knowing that such “a thing is nonexistent or not there,” is REALITY.

Case and point, Professor John Nash. Another True-To-Life story, made into a very popular movie, “A Beautiful Mind.” Two of the professor’s delusions were; one, a college roommate (that Nash invented out of pure nonexistent nothingness) and two, the roommate’s niece, an imaginary little girl (about four-years-old). Nash’s only road to recovery was to recognize these delusions as being not real. And, so… he had to teach himself to ignore them.

What do you suppose would be the PERFECT solution for John Nash to be PERFECTLY cured of his delusions?

For him to not see them at ALL — to be made totally blind to them.

Humanity is also suffering from a similar degenerative mental disease. Two delusions that directly come from IT are “conscience” and “sin.” Entirely imagined and conceptually invented. Like Harvey the Rabbit.

What John Nash needed was a handle to grab. Which he finally SEES. A tiny handle that helps his big brain find REALITY again. Do you know what it was? He realized that the little girl (his roommate’s niece) never grows up. Year after year, she had always remained four-years-old… in his mind.

The handle Jesus has left for us is a trillion times more psychologically powerful.

You just simply have to SEE it.

As it is, ALL you can SEE is your sin (same as the vast majority of humanity). You are blind to what’s been done for us on the cross. However, if ALL you can see is what’s been done for you on the cross, then you are blind to your sin. It's one or the other.

Yes, Virginia… not seeing it… does make it so (or "not-so" as it were). For… if you are blind to your sin, YOU HAVE NO SIN.

You don’t have to take my Word for it. Jesus teaches the exact same thing:

John 9:41 (Original Greek) “Jesus said to them, ‘If you were blind, you would HAVE NO SIN, but now, since you say, “We see,” your sin remains.’”

The King James Version and the New American Bible version of John 9:41 are accurate reflections of the original Greek (above). Again, be careful of the newest translations. The newest translations inject the word “guilt” into the equation. As in: “you would have no guilt of sin” and thus “your guilt remains.” Just another nasty example of Fundamental-Hypocrisy. Swearing by “the inerrancy of Scripture,” yet having no problem blatantly recreating Scripture. And, for what purpose? To satisfy our own demise. (Also known as Self-Defeating.)

The fruition of the Jesus Concept is “Go and sin no more.” Go on about your Life with the God-Given confidence that you HAVE NO SIN.

For Religion? This is evil.

Why would such Good News for humanity be “evil” for Religion?

Bad for business (*evil* for the collection plate).

The Scriptures are altered by the Church-Taught to reflect what is *good* for business. The Church claims to promote the concept of being “IN Christ” yet it needs for its customers to remain “IN Sin.” Why? Because THAT is what is good for business. Especially for repeat business. To this never-ending end, better said, to the ongoing endeavor (the ongoing Church), Church-Dogma insists that it is impossible for anyone to happily go on about his or her Life in this world and simply HAVE NO SIN.

This totally contradicts what Jesus says. Jesus is talking about a person becoming totally BLIND to sin. How? Well, it should be obvious. It’s ALL Jesus talks about… if you’d really LISTEN. A person becomes totally BLIND to sin by truly SEEING what’s been done for us on the cross. “If you were blind, you would HAVE NO SIN.”

The Christian apologetic is compelled to find a way, any way (no matter how insane) to dismiss what Jesus says by apologizing it AWAY:

Perhaps Jesus is talking about physical blindness.

Right (lol). Gouge out your eyes... and have no sin. (Buzzer sound!) Wrong. Jesus is talking about having no sin: BY BECOMING TOTALLY BLIND TO SIN, ITSELF. If your eyes were gouged out, how could that keep you from having sin? This thing we call “sin” afflicts the deaf, the dumb, the sightless and the whole. Equally and without regard to race, creed, color, political correctness, ecclesiastical correctness or sex.

And, remember, dismissing the entire concept of wallowing in “sin” from one’s own mindset does not promote lawlessness. Just the opposite. Remember the steadfast Words of the Holy Spirit: “The allure of sin diminishes equally with the power you give to sin. You give it no power, it has no allure.” Since Paul reversed himself (Plane Crash, film at 11) so early in his understanding of PERFECT-Grace, he never gave true acceptance enough time (in THIS lifetime) for the Holy Spirit to tell him that exact newsworthy headline: “The allure of sin diminishes equally with the power you give to sin. You give it no power, it has no allure.” A wonderfully informative “verse” that never made its way into “the Bible.” So… when I share this specific Holy Spirit inspired TRUTH with you, the room automatically disregards it. It doesn’t even go in one ear and out the other. It can’t get past the Box nor the Cheese-Block for this Truth to even make it (past ALL that and) into the first ear.

Perhaps Jesus is talking about spiritual blindness.

Wrong again. Jesus is talking about having no sin: BY BECOMING TOTALLY BLIND TO SIN, ITSELF. If you were spiritually blind, how could that make you HAVE NO SIN? Jesus is talking about a PERFECTLY GOOD kind of blindness. Jesus is talking about our minds becoming readjusted to match our Factory Setting — our original mindset. IT’S-ALL-GOOD.

How can “becoming blind to sin” make a person have no sin?

Ah! Finally! A GOOD question. The pilots steering the airplane should have asked this question (directly to the Holy Spirit) two-thousand years ago. For, once you know the answer, you will also know what “sin” truly is... and you will HAVE NO SIN.

“Sin” is NOTHING!

For… What’s-Been-Done-For-Us-On-the-Cross is what is REAL.

Toward our demise, the Forces of Darkness have done a superb job of convincing us to psychologically SEE things the other way.

Sin in what is REAL!

And… “What’s-Been-Done-For-Us-On-the-Cross” is NOTHING.

 

[The Third One]

The “ANDS” alone (of the “ifs,” “ands” and “buts” variety) have turned the pure psychological power of What’s-Been-Done-For-Us-On-the-Cross into NOTHING. ANYTHING you ADD to it... takes AWAY from it. And, the Church-Taught have added a smorgasbord to it.

My dear Victory, in the two True-To-Life examples that you have shared with me, you are confusing REALITY (which comes from EVERYTHING) to That-Which-Is-Nonexistent-To-Begin-With (which comes from NOTHING).

REALITY is: Some paper (with a perceived and generally agree-upon economic value of $4200.00) was found in a drawer. Not an everyday occurrence, yet stuff like that does happen more often than you would think. Still, finding forgotten cash hidden AWAY in a drawer is much more unique than the other REALITY you mentioned.

And, that REALITY is: You are here in this world, because a man had sexual intercourse with a woman, who became pregnant with you. Welcome to the club, my dear. It’s a universal club, common to 99.94% of humanity, save for the .06% portion of the world’s population procreated through the practice of in-vitro fertilization and/or immaculate conception.

What is DELUSION (and comes from NOTHING) is the perverted idea of attaching a JUDGMENT of Good & Evil to ANY True-To-Life REALITY.

We ALL would get along just fine without our loud and annoying consciences.

Why is that?

Because, we have our Father in Heaven. He can give us much better advise.

Once ALL of our imagined voices within our Courtroom of Conscience have been sent AWAY — “Evil,” “Guilt,” “Fear,” “Religion,” “Sin,” “Self-Righteousness,” we become much better equipped to hear our Father’s voice, strong and clear.

Trust me, it’s a breath of fresh air to permanently hang up one’s Judging robes.

Since, no matter which direction we step, a true acceptor can do no “wrong,” what becomes astronomically clear to the true acceptor is the REAL NEED for our Father’s guidance.

The Holy Spirit has the PERFECT foundational question for us. By answering this question honestly, we gain many Truths about “conscience.” This question will also give us some great insight (inward) about our True core self… which also gives us great help (outward) once we begin SEEING how that exact same Truth applies to the rest of humanity:

“Did the growing of a conscious reveal anything GOOD about Adam and Eve?”

Practically everything. Upon gaining The Knowledge of Good & Evil, what Evil & Sinful transgressions did Adam and Eve realize in their consciences about themselves?

Adam was not afraid and ashamed of ALL the lies he had ever told Eve. Likewise, Eve was not afraid and ashamed of ALL the lies she had ever told Adam.

With good reason. They had never lied to each other.

Prior to gaining The Knowledge of Good & Evil, they had no need nor motivation to lie.

Can you imagine? Never killed anyone. Certainty never stole anything, for everything already belonged to them. Newborns come from this same unpolluted Place of Life. (Precisely why little children naturally assume that everything belongs to them.) Never a word spoken back and forth in hatred. No sins whatsoever. Grown adults, yet Adam and Eve were PERFECTLY blind to the entire concept of “sin.”

As a grown adult, try to imagine it. You instantly gain The Knowledge of Good & Evil and the only guilt your conscience presents (before you and God Almighty) — the only “shameful” deed you become fearful you have committed before the eyes of God... is...

...public nudity.

That is an amazingly sinless and guiltless Life Adam and Eve led... without a conscience. Right up to the point where they gained The Knowledge of Good & Evil — Knowledge which immediately progresses into creating a conscience… and judging.

As for the story of you (and your conception), it is the Living God Who is responsible for the Truth finally being made plain to you. In spite of everyone directly involved — specifically, in spite everyone’s loud and judgmental Courtroom of Conscience.

For years, the secret remained in your older sister’s Courtroom of Conscience, locked AWAY by a gag order (her, Honor) the Judge’s, ruling.

You and your sister were tried and found “Guilty” in your brother’s Courtroom of Conscience — Class-A Felony BS and Aggravated S*#t-Stirring — with a crying-mother as the prosecution’s star victim. Just curious: Has Judge Angry Brother given you and your sister your well-deserved parole hearing yet? For time served and good behavior?

As for your GOOD conclusions: without a conscience, I am certain that you would have come to the same conclusions “up in the woods.” As opposed to you adjudicating them in your Courtroom of Conscience. They are many.

That you came out of ALL this seriously okay.

That your sister had been set FREE.

That you and your mother can now talk openly about it.

And, that your father, who raised and loved you, did GOOD by you. He sounds like an honorable man.

And, ALL consciences aside, who among us (including yourself) can throw the first stone at your mother?

Don’t kid yourself. Unless your mom has truly accepted, 100%, with no “ifs,” “ands” or “buts,” that what’s been done for us on the cross takes ALL of her sins AWAY, she has a conscience.

It was your mom’s Courtroom of Conscience that made her “keep it buried.”

It was your mom’s Courtroom of Conscience that saddled her with Guilt.

It was your mom’s Courtroom of Conscience that saddled her with Fear.

Just my humble yet considered take on it.

Much love to you and family, Victory,

The Third One