Imagine a World with no Christians!

[amigo de christo]

Just stick to the facts. Latin texts existed before Saint Jerome.
So what was your point?

My point was jerome was simply recopying . And LATIN was the official langauge of said Church . SO it makes all sense
he would use latin .

 

[James Macbeth]

What i have written i have written , said pilate . The three main languages were GREEK , hebrew and latin .
Greek had long been in the land . Latin under Rome came later . much later .
Thus my best guess , and it is a guess , is that the majority spoke in greek , though they often knew at least two langauges .

And your guess is based off what? Things you learned at Bob's backyard Bible academy?

 

[James Macbeth]

That , my friend ,was the Right question . I see too many motives at work my friend .
Its better we just simply stay planted in our bible and not let folks try and twist things .

State just one motive.

 

[amigo de christo]

I cant remember who said it . Was it jerome or augustine . One of them said that church had become the harlot .
But then gave bad advice by saying we must remain in it . Some of them did try and correct HER ,
but its obvious she heeded them not . I just desire good for the souls of all , thus i must remind folks
to flee such places and return to learning the scrips for themselves .

 

[amigo de christo]

And your guess is based off what? Things you learned at Bob's backyard Bible academy?

No . It was just a GUESS . I even said IT was just a guess . Read slower my friend .
I wasnt there so how can i truly know . IT was my best guess . Though many scholars do the same thing
and yet call it offical doctrine . That is not wise to do .

 

[amigo de christo]

State just one motive.

Well , you could go and listen to the speech of the prayer of pope francis in twenty sixteen .
ITS pretty clear He has made the ROAD TO GOD VERY , VERY BROAD .
I speak of the motive of men in high places and within said churches , both CC and protestant .
Seeker sensative was a nightmare that should never have been brought into the churches .
And rick warren and scores of others have long done the bidding of ROME . Yet protestants just love their books
and their fables and their unity talk . If you look real close at the big picture you can see what is being done .
THEY are creating a religoin of sorts , one that will embrace all paths as valid as though they serve the same God .
In order to have us find common ground in good works and unity . ONLY if you look real closely
at the social false all inclusive gospel , YOU WILL SEE exactly WHO is it gonna serve . THE WORLD GOVT .
We being duped real bad right now .

 

[Marvelloustime]

Ps , i would not heed augustine doctrine my friends . Though it can come clothed with some truth , Great dangers are in it .
Let us stick to our bible and learn that JESUS well . As well as all things the apostels left in letters in the bible .
Jesus never said lest ye become wise as scholars . Lest ye be converted as CHILDREN ye shall in no way enter into the kingdom of heaven .
TOO many scholars , who had not the keys , have led folks astray and often try and down play The Bible , or twist stuff .
Seems they are always learning but never able to come to the simple truth .

For those who regularly read their bibles, I have a trivial question for you all. Can you spot any quoted scriptures in brother’s post. If you are regularly bible readers, you will spot them.
Praise the Lord.

 

[Timtofly]

The result of a prayerful And Careful Bible study of the matter reveals the rapture is post-trib.

Yes the tribulation of the last 1992 years. It certainly did not happen pre-trib at the Cross.

The problem is people want to put the church into Jacob's trouble. The fulness of the Gentiles is complete and the church taken away prior to Jacob's trouble. Or what some call the GT.

There is an unique correlation between how some view the Seals and the Kingdom of Heaven. Notice the fulness of the Gentiles is the kingdom without observation. It is not against flesh and blood. It is spiritual.

The same with the Seals. The Seals will not be observable by those on earth. The church on earth will not be able to use the Seals as a tangible timeline. When the Second Coming happens, only then will the church on earth understand, she just went through the Seals.

Many claim the Seals do nothing. They would be right, because what has happened will not be seen by the church until after the Second Coming. Just like those on earth, have not really paid attention to the thousands who have reached Paradise ahead of them. Most on earth are focused on their own circle of influence. Most seem unaware of the larger historical picture. Most rely on human understanding and theology just to survive.

Obviously people come up with what makes sense to them, even if in total contrast to other redeemed on earth. Surely it was said of OT Israel many times, "They all did that which is right in their own eyes". Each one of us has to answer to God. We cannot be forced to all accept the same teachings. Only at the judgment seat of Christ, will we know we were either right or wrong.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Why would our Lord give the gift of tongues? If everyone, as you claim, was speaking Greek?

I didn't say everyone was speaking Greek, and you seem to be veering off the subject and not really going anywhere with all this, so I guess I'll politely excuse myself.

God bless,
- H

 

[James Macbeth]

No . It was just a GUESS . I even said IT was just a guess . Read slower my friend .
I wasnt there so how can i truly know . IT was my best guess . Though many scholars do the same thing
and yet call it offical doctrine . That is not wise to do .

Good.

 

[amigo de christo]

I didn't say everyone was speaking Greek, and you seem to be veering off the subject and not really going anywhere with all this, so I guess I'll politely excuse myself.

God bless,
- H

Me too my friend . Me too .

 

[James Macbeth]

I didn't say everyone was speaking Greek, and you seem to be veering off the subject and not really going anywhere with all this, so I guess I'll politely excuse myself.

God bless,
- H

You make a claim, I counter it, then you leave...
Goodbye.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

op: imagine a world without (Previously raptured) christians?:
OK:

1) no "members of The Body Of Christ" are left behind to be witnesses, because
2) All "members" Will Be present At The Bema Judgment Seat Of Christ, and:

3) God's Seals 144,000 (12,000 from each) tribe of Israel = witnesses?
(Rev 7:1-8)
+
4) God Has Two powerful prophetic witnesses (Rev 11:3-12)
+
5) God has an "angel preaching the everlasting gospel of the kingdom" since:
our Gospel Of GRACE was Ended at our Great GRACE Departure To Heaven!

6) With "the Wicked man of sin, son of Perdition being revealed," those
who previously understood and rejected "The Love Of The Truth
(Gospel Of GRACE)," will have NO Second chance, because Of:

DOUBLE Deception!:

"And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom The LORD shall
consume with The Spirit of His Mouth, and shall destroy with
The Brightness of His Coming:

Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all
power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness
of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received
not The Love of The Truth, that they might be saved.

And for this cause God Shall Send them Strong Delusion, that
they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who
believed not The Truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
(2 Thessalonians 2:8-12) Thus:​

7) only ALL other UNbelievers, besides "these damned," who will "hear
the Everlasting gospel of the kingdom, preached by an angel" (Rev 14:6),
have THEIR choice to make: believe/can't buy/sell/be martyred, or
"take the mark of the beast."

Sound about right?
------------------------
Bible Answer To Confusing church Bewilderment!

GRACE And Peace...

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

And your point being...
More stalling....

if you can understand what I have written, you will see what I mean

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Latin texts existed before Saint Jerome

yes in the Old Latin form, but made from the Greek New Testament

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Avoiding the questions once again, and stalling...

Where did you learn Greek? Bob's backyard Bible academy?
Please go go the University of Athens and teach them. I bet they would get a laugh.

simple question, are you afraid to answer yes or no?

 

[James Macbeth]

yes in the Old Latin form, but made from the Greek New Testament

Focus on the one verse we have been debating.
You keep going around.

 

[James Macbeth]

simple question, are you afraid to answer yes or no?

Ok. Start from scratch.
What's your question.
Now focus, one question.

 

[James Macbeth]

Well , you could go and listen to the speech of the prayer of pope francis in twenty sixteen .
ITS pretty clear He has made the ROAD TO GOD VERY , VERY BROAD .
I speak of the motive of men in high places and within said churches , both CC and protestant .
Seeker sensative was a nightmare that should never have been brought into the churches .
And rick warren and scores of others have long done the bidding of ROME . Yet protestants just love their books
and their fables and their unity talk . If you look real close at the big picture you can see what is being done .
THEY are creating a religoin of sorts , one that will embrace all paths as valid as though they serve the same God .
In order to have us find common ground in good works and unity . ONLY if you look real closely
at the social false all inclusive gospel , YOU WILL SEE exactly WHO is it gonna serve . THE WORLD GOVT .
We being duped real bad right now .

What do these things have to do with the Rapture, or Latin Text?

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

Born-again believers being caught up to meet Jesus in the clouds IS the rapture!
Here is a clear prophecy of the rapture of the church: “According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left """will be caught up""" together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words” (1 Thessalonians 4:15–18).

You are simply demonstrating Keraz's point. Zech 14. shows that the saints will descend with Christ to go into Jerusalem. Rev. 12 also shows that God's Church will be taken to a place of safety on this earth before the Tribulation starts. What the Bible clearly doesn't do is say people will randomly disappear into Heaven without anyone realizing what happened. Paul's prophecy is only a piece of a bigger puzzle, and the other pieces are scattered throughout the Bible, like every other piece of biblical doctrine(Isa.28:9-10).

Insisting that the rapture theology is true won't make it true because the Bible doesn't support it anywhere. The rapture theology is the result of terribly misguided evangelicals doing what they do best: plucking passages out of context and constructing beliefs based on faulty foundations. The Bible teaches that the saints will be gathered to where Christ will return(Zech. 14:4).

Dispensationalists erroneously base their rapture doctrine on Paul's words in 1 Thess. 4:15-18 because their bias against the OT causes them to overlook everything the OT has to teach about Christ's return and the days preceding it.

Once people understand that the Antichrist (the Beast, the Man of Sin, the Son of Perdition) cannot take full control of the world until and unless the Holy Spirit (the Divine Restrainer) is "taken out of the way", they must conclude that the only biblical Rapture is a Pre-Tribulation Resurrection/Rapture.

When the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way, so is the Church (which is indwelt by the Holy Spirit). The Tribulation runs parallel with the reign of the Antichrist for 3 1/2 years. And the Tribulation is "the time of Jacob's trouble" and has nothing whatsoever to do with the Rapture. Indeed there is not a single Rapture verse of passage that includes "the Tribulation" (which is not the same as the trials and tribulations which Christians must endure).

So the questions you should ask yourself are these: "Were Noah and his family shut into the Ark before or after the Flood?" "Was Enoch raptured to Heaven before or after the Flood?" Did Methuselah die before or after the Flood?" "Were Lot and his family forcibly removed from Sodom before or after fire rained down on it from Heaven?"

The Tribulation is a period of divine judgments which corresponds to the judgments of the first six trumpet judgments. And these are all expressions of God's wrath. But the Bible plainly tells Christians that they are not subject to the wrath of God because they have believed on the Lord Jesus Christ.

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do. (1 Thess 5:9-11). The doctrine of the Rapture (as we note here) is for the comfort of believers. How can there be comfort in anticipating the wrath of God?

This theology is clearly way off base, primarily because more accurate translations show that the "restrainer" was a human man, not the Holy Spirit.

Furthermore, the "man of sin" Paul is addressing is clearly someone in God's Church, as Paul says this man "sits in the temple of God"(2 Thess. 2:4). That can only be referring to God's Church, because it is the only temple God has under the current covenant.

This is just another example of how evangelicals read their own beliefs into the Bible. The first 2 verses of the chapter shows the subject of this prophecy is about Paul addressing Christians to be on guard against deceivers using the apostles' names or authority to spread false doctrines and the man that would enforce those doctrines in the Church. The purpose of 2 Thess. 2 was not to preach rapture doctrine.