One basic "as it is given" question, Literalists.... I know you do not accept that when he said, "soon", he meant "soon", but, what was it that John called "star?"
I thought this was interesting...
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Naomi25
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Well, of course we are to read it! How else are we to...I don't know...imbibe it? In that way, of course 'blessed is he who reads it'...as opposed to those who don't. We who read it are digging into God's word!
But you are completely and totally missing the point.
The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. - Revelation 1:1-2
saying, “Write what you see in a book and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.” - Revelation 1:11
I could go on and on. The amount of times the words "I saw" are in Revelation is amazing, and if you are searching for clues, it should be there. God gave John this Revelation in visions, in symbols. This should be obvious. When we see the beast, we know it to be the Antichrist. The dragon we know to be Satan, the Lamb Christ....on and on the symbolic representation goes. It is impossible to ignore and a responsible reader needs to step back and realize that Christ has, indeed intended this book to be read in a particular way. Just as he wanted the Genesis account to be taken as literal history, or Psalms as literal praise and worship...we must see that Revelation does indeed have a genre, and if that genre was important enough for Christ to present it in that way, we ought to listen. Should we not?
Sorry about the tone of post #63. I removed it. I know that many of you have a lot invested in Literal vs. Symbolic interpretation. But, think about it carefully. It is not either one. The Bible is prophetic. Every word in it is, ultimately, about our relationship with Jesus. It must be read & interpreted propheticly. And, if you check, that is really how you are reading the Bible. Otherwise, you cannot understand it.
Rejoice Always!
Rejoice Always!
You gave two quotes from Ryrie. One was on (p. 37). The other on (p.45). No need to thank me for making up for your poor work. The milk's on me.
Stranger
it is knowledge that is "revealed" to us by the Holy Spirit that we could not or did not understand before.....you know like when you read a scripture for years and then one day you have that AHAH moment and suddenly realize what it means.....
This scripture came to mind...
Ephesians 1:17 ESV
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him,
quietthinker
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If Jesus said we are to eat his flesh and drink his blood and then qualifies it to be understood spiritually (if we know what that means) then how is it that we use a different principle when interpreting the words in the book of Revelation?
Yes...He gives us spiritual sight, when His time is ready :)
People of all religions are the "locusts from the abyss" which the earth at present teems with as were it their breeding season.
I don't like 'end time stuff'.
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Allow me to offer one tantalising observation. In Daniel 2 read of the destruction of the world empires by the coming of the kingdom of Christ. It is believed by many, particularly those of the Catholic preterist persuasion, that this took place in the first century by the establishment of the church. Yet in revelation written by John decades after Christ, we still see the presence of all those kingdoms as a composite beast in revelation 13. This beast isn't destroyed until much much later, still future to our day. In other words, Babylon, Meda-persia, Greece, and pagan Rome still exist today! Not of course in empirical literal form, but in spiritual. We must discern what manner of kingdoms these four were. There are several intriguing characteristics that we could take note of. First, they were pagan. One particularly common feature of pagan kingdoms is that they were church/state unions. The priest class held the reigns of the state... While the state supported the religious, the religious made the laws, enforced by the state.
The question this arises. Do we see today any worrying signs that such a composite church/state union could manifest itself in these last days? What of the symbol of the woman riding the breast in revelation 17? The woman, the whore, is an apostate church. She is riding a state beast. A church/state union. As one looks at today's political world, it does not need a degree in political sciences to see the potential for such very soon.
The question this arises. Do we see today any worrying signs that such a composite church/state union could manifest itself in these last days? What of the symbol of the woman riding the breast in revelation 17? The woman, the whore, is an apostate church. She is riding a state beast. A church/state union. As one looks at today's political world, it does not need a degree in political sciences to see the potential for such very soon.
bbyrd009
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"those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is"
Oh, should I have said "eschatology"? And, it by NO means consumes my time and study of all other scripture.
Can you expound on your comment that people of all religions are "the locusts from the abyss"? I am referring to the locusts that will torment in Revelation 9:1-12"Revelation 9:1-12 - Tormenting Locusts From The Abyss
1 Then the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star from heaven which had fallen to the earth; and the key of the bottomless pit was given to him. 2 He opened the bottomless pit, and smoke went up out of the pit, like the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by the smoke of the pit. 3 Then out of the smoke came locusts upon the earth, and power was given them, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4 They were told not to hurt the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, nor any tree, but only the men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5 And they were not permitted to kill anyone, but to torment for five months; and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings a man. 6 And in those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will long to die, and death flees from them.
7 The appearance of the locusts was like horses prepared for battle; and on their heads appeared to be crowns like gold, and their faces were like the faces of men. 8 They had hair like the hair of women, and their teeth were like the teeth of lions. 9 They had breastplates like breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was like the sound of chariots, of many horses rushing to battle. 10 They have tails like scorpions, and stings; and in their tails is their power to hurt men for five months. 11 They have as king over them, the angel of the abyss; his name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in the Greek he has the name Apollyon. 12 The first woe is past; behold, two woes are still coming after these things."
See what I mean?
John 13:35
By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
"See what I mean?"
No, not at all.
I guess you are just too smart and crafty for lil ole me.
Okay, you quoted my signature verse...and? You also neglected to expound on my Q to you about the "People of all religions are the "locusts from the abyss". I can certainly see them as being caused by Satan and his fallen angels, demons...but I fail to see where they are "people".
God Bless
-nancy
bbyrd009
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i missed that one too; even if eschatology does make me barf also
ya, that one too
Dispensationalists are not literalists. They call themselves literalists to pretend that they're not imposing anything upon the Bible. Dispensationalism is satanic doctrine whose followers spend lot of time pretending things are so that they know are not so.
Literally, locusts are not helicopters.
Literally, soon means soon.
Literally, Revelation explains itself as symbols.
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