Yeah, it’s sad when people twist grace into an excuse. Real change should show in how we live, not just what we say we believe.
I Surrender My Life Lord, but...
- Thread starter Brakelite
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I certainly agree with this. We cannot earn our salvation by works, whether works of obedience to the law or works of kindness to others. No argument. However...
Here you are suggesting that contrary to everything the Bible says about sin and it's negative effect on our relationship with God (separation), we are saved regardless of lifestyle, obedience, character?
Not according to Jesus.
“And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. ”
Matthew 25:46 KJV
After describing the various works of the entire world, God is here directly judging whether one is worthy of life or death based on their character and acts of good or evil during the lifetime. This description of the judgement has nothing to do with rewards, but of salvation... Life of death.
A person who had given himself to Christ and accepted the gospel will not be judged by his profession of having been saved, but by his responses to the working of the holy Spirit throughout his subsequent life. Was he willing to be changed? Was he willing to obey God's commandments? Was he willing to give of himself to others needs? I'm other words, did he love God with all his heart, soul, mind and body, and love God neighbour as himself. That's the final deciding criteria for salvation. We haven't earned salvation by doing those things described, but we have revealed where our heart is. If our characters and lives do not reflect the image of Christ in God's works, regardless whether we attend church, worship, give books away to strangers, witness to the Lordship of Christ, even working miracles, Christ will declare, 'I never knew you'.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Works is a word that carries duel meanings in context and perspective.
Deed…OR…Vow
* Agreement to labor for pay.
( A contract. Can dissolve a contract.)
* No agreement, but lending a hand.
( No contract. Willingly LENDING a hand, Monetarily, Temporarily.)
* Belief “IN”
(No contract. Routinely can believe, doubt, believe, deny, Believe, Reject belief.)
* Contract, by Oath. (Word spoken, Signature to affirm, Ends at Established Time per Agreed Contract “terms”.
(For examples)
Word and Signature.
~ Vow…Marriage; ends at a bodily death of one.
(Consideration of Failure of one to uphold terms)
~ Vow…Office; ends at an agreed term timeframe.
( Consideration of Failure of one to uphold terms).
~ Vow…Allegiance; Nation, Constitution, Flag Representation, Natural, Granted.
( Consideration of Failure of one to uphold terms.)
Works Scripturally…”IS”
Not Spoken Word “and” Signature.
mans Works Scripturally…”IS”…
* True Belief IN one Heart, (Spoken / “Confessed” / or not.)
(John 6: 28, 29)
In this case, (not spoken / confessed), God Shall save that Individual AFTER that individuals Bodily Death.
(1 Thes. 4:14. / John 10:29)
mans Works (True Belief in his heart), “AND” Spoken “Confessed”…
Vow, Spoken Word “and”
Vow Spoken Word “and” Vow of Bodily Life (Blood), willingly Given “unto” Death TO Christ the Lord.
Yes.
(Caveat”IF”)
(Rom 10:9)
Result?
Receipt of Salvation “THEN”, at “THAT” moment in time.
Expiration date?
None.
Man “works” TO “Keep” his Gift of Salvation?
No.
How so?
Spirit of God, in that man”Keeps” that mans Salvation.
Because ?
(1 John 4:4)
Works of a man Spiritually IS a man’s agreed Vow…not labor.
Works of a man Spiritually that are Deeds, (labor), are rewarded, rewards, that Do Not AFFECT his Received Salvation.
(1 Cor 3:15)
Some men…elect to Receive Gods Offering of Salvation, Before their (physical) bodily Death. (They become members of Christs Church and Citizens of Gods Kingdom.
They are IN Christs Hand and Redeemed by Christ. Rapture.)
Some men…Elect to Receive Gods Offering of Salvation, After their (physical) bodily Death. (They become Citizens of Gods Kingdom. They are IN Gods Hand and Redeemed by God. First Resurrection.)
Some men, Reject /Deny Christ Jesus, Reject / Deny God…
They shall Physically Bodily Die, “IN their Sin” (rejecting / denial of the Lord God Almighty).
^ They shall “along with every man ever naturally born”…SEE the Son of Man sitting on a White Cloud…and “then” shall “they”“Believe”, Confess Belief; “Be NOT Forgiven”, Be sentenced to Be Condemned, destroyed, forgotten.
End of Days as we know them (as humans)…is all about Spiritual Events, Separating the Divided…With or Without…
The Lord God Almighty.
Glory to God,
Taken
I never realised how confused and misleading your beliefs are. I know you are well meaning and you are a good person. But your beliefs are all over the place, and I don't know where to begin in order to unravel the confusion.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Taken
Well-Known Member
It is amazing that some (“peoples”
)… do not understand the SIMPLE contextual Meaning of “ONCE”.ONCE meaning:
on one occasion or for one time only
ONCE you have taken a Bite of Food, chewed it, swallowed it. You have ONCE accomplished EATING THAT Bite of FOOD.
You DO NOT AGAIN EAT THAT Same BITE of Food!
You can NOW declare and Truthfully Affirm, you Have Eaten THAT one Bite of Food ONCE and Forever!
When a man Has Taken a Bite of Food in his mouth, rolled it around in his mouth, TASTED it, Didn’t Like it…
He has Two choices;
1) Swallow it
Or
2) Spit it out
The scriptural analogy is the Same Thing!
You can hear Gods Word, put Gods Word IN your own Mouth..
Roll it around in your mouth…
Taste it…
Swallow it…
Or
Spit it out…
Open your mouth, take “a bite” of Gods Word…”Taste it…” and for you taking that “little bite and Tasting”
…God WILL give to you A “Little” Free Gift of “FAITH”.
…You Repeat…God will repeat giving you “Little” increases of measures of Faith.
At ANY Time Gods Word is Rolling around in YOUR mouth, you ARE TASTING …
And AT ANY TIME, YOU can “Spit” Gods Word OUT of YOUR Mouth.
And? You will receive NO MORE Of Gods Gift OF FAITH!
That IS Called: You fallen “FROM FAITH”.
A man HAVING “Faith” IS ONE STEP of a mans “ PREPARATION “ For THAT man to RECEIVE Gods “OFFERED” Gift of “Salvation”.
Gods Order and Way (step by step) is Paramount For a man to Take, Receive, Possess, Have, Keep Gods “OFFERED”…blessings and Gifts.
Hearing Gods Word;
Tasting Gods Word;
Trusting Gods Word;
Believing Gods Word;
Eating Gods Word;
Calling on the Lords NAME;
Heartfully “CONFESSING” to the Lord God ones, “BELIEF”… IS A ONE TIME Confession!
Help me believe…
I want to believe…
Not sure I believe…
Makes sense logically to my MIND to believe
My mommy believes…
My preacher said “I” believe…
My friends believe…
I doubt some things in Scripture…
I used to believe…
I believe…”but”…blah, whatever excuse.
Blah, blah, blah…Are NOT True confessions to the Lord God of Belief IN The Lord God!
Such individuals ARE NOT Prepared, Not ABLE to “MAKE” a ONE TIME True “Confession” To the Lord God of their Belief.
If THEY “ARE” unsure, unprepared, not Able…
Best the keep their Mouth Shut….
Rather than to “Give a False Lying Confession To the Lord God Almighty”.
A man, can repeatedly lie to other men, they believe and a week later claim they do Not Believe. And the other will simply conclude the man a liar, or wishy washy.
A mans Word to the Lord God, (is Verified, as God Teaches To Test /Verify all things).
Gods Order and Way, is For a man to “confess” his Belief From the mans
All knowing God SEARCHES that mans HEART (verifies) his Confession IS TRUE…
BEFORE God Blesses THAT man With Gods Gifts of:
Forgiveness for having HAD unbelief.
Accounting that Body Dead!
Body Cleansing of all unrighteousness.
Soul Salvation!
The mans Heart Circumcision!
A new Heart for the man!
Gods Seed!
The mans Spirit rebirth!
Gods Spirit entering, dwelling IN the mans born again spirit!
The man Sealed Only unto the Lord God.
The man Justified to be Redeemed…/ by Christ the Lord (Rapture)
Or
God (First Resurrection).
No where IN Scripture…IS Gods Order and Way for a man to become MADE “Whole” (body, soul, spirit)….accomplished repeatedly.
That IS ONLY “accomplished”….ONCE.
And ONCE that IS “Accomplished” …
THAT “Accomplishtment”…
IS the “status, outcome, result” that…By, Through, Of the KEEPING Power of God…
remains FOREVER”!
Who…was Such Gifts Offered To?
The whole World of Humans!
When…must a human person “Take or Reject” those Gifts?
Well uh, duh, Before the humans Bodily Death.
And WHAT “IF” a human person….Does NOT “claim / Take those Offered Gifts “BEFORE” his Bodily Death”?
Uh DUH…he does NOT Have the Gifts …that were Bought and Paid for THAT man.
If a gift IS Bought and Paid for…FOR ALL men.
Is THAT Gift “all mens Gift”? Yes!
If a Man, Does NOT TAKE his Gift,
Does that man possess HIS Gift? No.
If that man Bodily Dies, can he “then” open his mouth and Ask for his Gift? No.
What has that Dead man “lost”????
Not rocket science!
THAT man has LOST his Gift bought and paid for and Offered to him, for him to Freely Take….but didn’t Take his Gift!
Did that man Lose his Gift…
Because he bodily died “without” taking “his gift” while he was Alive? Yes.
You are mistaken.
No one is teaching “a man” can not lose his “gift of Salvation”.
Men, all day long absolutely Do Lose their “gift of Salvation”…because while Alive, THEY Failed to Take “their” gift, bought, paid for and offered to Them!
And the men WHO Did/ Have/ Do “Take” “their gift of Salvation”…
Only take and receive THAT Gift, “ONCE!”!
And it IS Gods Power…that Maintains and KEEPS that Mans Received Gift, IN and WITH “that” man “forever”!!!
Because:
Greater is He that is IN you, than he that is IN the world!
@Dan Clarkston
“which leads people to keep or go back to their old sins... they just try to hide it from the pastor and they wait till after church to spark up a doobie, snort their coke, and watch their porn ya know”.
Sin against God …IS UNBELIEF!
No, a Saved man DOES NOT, return to SIN of UNBELIEF IN the Lord God Almighty.
Do you believe a man “watching” anything you don’t agree with…”sports”, “dancing”, “porn”, “magic tricks”, etc. “means” that individual…does NOT Believe “in the Lord God?
Do you believe a man that “ingests” any substance “orally or otherwise into their body”, that you do not agree with “means” that individual…does NOT Believe “in the Lord God”?
You confuse True Heartful Confessed Belief “IN” the Lord God…with humans mens weaknesses.
And you present your posts, your words, lacking Spiritual understanding of how, who, why, when a Mans relationship With the Lord God “ONCE” established IS Forever.
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The majority of Christians today believe obedience to be superfluous to salvation. Yet it was disobedience that got us all into trouble in the first place. So the prevalent attitude among Christians today is not to lovingly search out ways by which we can serve God in obedience and righteousness, but to search out scriptural support for disobedience and a continuation of sinfulness. Not all sin, no. Christians are happy to give up those sins that are deemed too serious and adverse to ones reputation. But those sins against God's commandments that reveal secret rebelliousness...those attitudes of wanting to retain lordship over ones independence... Those attitudes that aren't surrendered in self sacrifice and true obedience in all things... it's easy to devise a false theology to sustain one's preferred lifestyle.
“Thy way, O God, is in the sanctuary: who is so great a God as our God? ”
Psalms 77:13 KJV
Most of us understand how Jesus came to fulfil the law right? Perhaps not most of us. Maybe only a few of us understand that fulfil does not mean destroy...or annul...or set aside...or ignore. Fulfil the law means to obey it. Yes, Jesus obeyed the law, thus fulfilling it. We are called to do the same.
“Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. ”
Romans 13:10 KJV
“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? ”
Romans 6:16 KJV
But what of the scriptures that say the law is done away with, you ask. Like for example...
“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. ”
Galatians 3:19 KJV
There is no transgression without the law right? So how does that harmonize with the above scripture? It means there are 2 laws. One law that was transgressed, and a second law that brought a remedy to the transgression. What then was the first law? The Ten Commandments, the law of God. What was the second law? The sanctuary system with its sacrifices and rituals. The law of Moses. Jesus fulfilled both laws. He obeyed all His Father's commandments, and became the final substitutionary sacrifice, fulfilling all the requirements of Moses law. He told His disciples many times that the sanctuary system was being completed and fulfilled and finished in Him. He was the door to the sanctuary. He was the true Bread of Life. He was the true Light of the world. He was the Mediator and the Way, the Truth, and the Life, leading to the Father. In Jesus was embodied the Law of God, found written in the tables of stone in the ark in the Most Holy Place, under the mercy seat. It was in Jesus and His shedding of blood that
“Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other. ”
Psalms 85:10 KJV
Did you know, in following the theme of this thread, that the door to the sanctuary was made up of overlapping and overlaying of curtains comprising 4 colours? White, blue, red, and purple. These colours are a principle combination throughout the sanctuary, from the tent itself to the clothes of the priests. You can read about these, the red, the white (and gold), the blue and the purple throughout Exodus chapters 36-39. They each had significant meaning. One, that we cannot enter the sanctuary without these attributes. And these attributes are attainable only through Christ, and they are granted us as a gift.
White or gold means righteousness. (Rev.19:8)
Red means sacrifice. (Ex. 25:1-8; 35:23.)
Blue means obedience. (Num. 25:38-41).
And purple, a combination of red and blue, means royalty and Lordship.
It is impossible for God to be your Lord without sacrifice and obedience.
“Thy way, O God, is in the sanctuary: who is so great a God as our God? ”
Psalms 77:13 KJV
Most of us understand how Jesus came to fulfil the law right? Perhaps not most of us. Maybe only a few of us understand that fulfil does not mean destroy...or annul...or set aside...or ignore. Fulfil the law means to obey it. Yes, Jesus obeyed the law, thus fulfilling it. We are called to do the same.
“Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. ”
Romans 13:10 KJV
“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? ”
Romans 6:16 KJV
But what of the scriptures that say the law is done away with, you ask. Like for example...
“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. ”
Galatians 3:19 KJV
There is no transgression without the law right? So how does that harmonize with the above scripture? It means there are 2 laws. One law that was transgressed, and a second law that brought a remedy to the transgression. What then was the first law? The Ten Commandments, the law of God. What was the second law? The sanctuary system with its sacrifices and rituals. The law of Moses. Jesus fulfilled both laws. He obeyed all His Father's commandments, and became the final substitutionary sacrifice, fulfilling all the requirements of Moses law. He told His disciples many times that the sanctuary system was being completed and fulfilled and finished in Him. He was the door to the sanctuary. He was the true Bread of Life. He was the true Light of the world. He was the Mediator and the Way, the Truth, and the Life, leading to the Father. In Jesus was embodied the Law of God, found written in the tables of stone in the ark in the Most Holy Place, under the mercy seat. It was in Jesus and His shedding of blood that
“Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other. ”
Psalms 85:10 KJV
Did you know, in following the theme of this thread, that the door to the sanctuary was made up of overlapping and overlaying of curtains comprising 4 colours? White, blue, red, and purple. These colours are a principle combination throughout the sanctuary, from the tent itself to the clothes of the priests. You can read about these, the red, the white (and gold), the blue and the purple throughout Exodus chapters 36-39. They each had significant meaning. One, that we cannot enter the sanctuary without these attributes. And these attributes are attainable only through Christ, and they are granted us as a gift.
White or gold means righteousness. (Rev.19:8)
Red means sacrifice. (Ex. 25:1-8; 35:23.)
Blue means obedience. (Num. 25:38-41).
And purple, a combination of red and blue, means royalty and Lordship.
It is impossible for God to be your Lord without sacrifice and obedience.
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Incidentally, well, actually significantly, the colours associated with Babylon the Great are also scarlet, gold, purple, and bl...wait. no. There's no blue. And Antichrist is otherwise known as the mystery of iniquity, and the "lawless one".
Where does your life sit as a Christian that denies the validity of God's commandments?
Where does your life sit as a Christian that denies the validity of God's commandments?
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