I have a question that remains unanswered:

[BarneyFife]

It is especially because that is the dominant God tempting people to violate the 1C.



In this case, you know the trinitarian doctrine is not genuine because it began in the 4th century and goes against Scripture. There is no verse that says The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are all co-eternal, co-substantial and co-equal and if you do not believe this you cannot be saved but will go to hell.

Jesus says 'follow me.' The trinitarian uses eternal suffering to coerce acceptance of a doctrine not found in Scripture. Jesus did not teach the trinity but said his Father is the one true God. Doesn't that tell you anything?

I don't feel like you really addressed the remarks you quoted from me.

 

[BarneyFife]

It's there - you just refuse to accept the clear Order of Genesis that Elohim established before He could make known His Eternal Name to us in Exodus 3: 14-15

Better remove Genesis and Exodus from your bibles as, according to you - they are corrupted.

You got me all wrong, Friend.

 

[David in NJ]

Well, I think the "you" that you meant was me and not @BarneyFife.

And no. I will not remove any of the unitarian text of Scripure, nor will I impose on the unitarian text trinitarian dogma, such as in Genesis, which like the rest of Scripture does not teach the trinity.

The easiest way to defeat the trinity is to recognize the non-existence of the '3rd person.' Ever notice people pray FOR the Holy Spirit but not TO the Holy Spirit? That's the dead giveaway.

God has imposed on you that His name is found in Genesis and Exodus and is Permanently and Eteranly attached to THREE Persons.

Who walked with Adam & Eve in the Garden? Was it the Father, the Son or the Holy Spirit?

 

[David in NJ]

You got me all wrong, Friend.

Ok, minor blemish - love you and even wrangler my close friend on here.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Trinitarianism is the bigggest idol in Christianity.

Personally, I don't see the harm either way.

 

[Wrangler]

Personally, I don't see the harm either way.

You don't see any harm in a coercive ideology?

There is no verse that says The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are all co-eternal, co-substantial and co-equal and if you do not believe this you cannot be saved but will go to hell.

In my view, it is always dangerous to go beyond the word of God. Frankly, there is no need to extrapolate. That trinitarianism relies on coercion is evidence of it not being divine.


And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition.
Mark 7:13 (NLT)

 

[Wrangler]

I don't feel like you really addressed the remarks you quoted from me.

Hmmm. I did address the remarks you made. You asked, why especially, I explained. Then you spoke of what is genuine, and I explained.

What would it take for you to feel like I did address the remarks you made? I really do want you to feel that I did respond, even if it was not agreeing with you.

 

[BarneyFife]

You don't see any harm in a coercive ideology?

I've never been coerced to accept trinitarianism.

 

[Wrangler]

I've never been coerced to accept trinitarianism.

That is possible but does not change the fact. Do you deny trinitarians have used coercion on this very forum and even this very thread?!

If you compare the energy of trinitarian doctrine to, say soul sleep or OSAS, there is no comparison. I believe we are of the same mind on OSAS. But among such debates, I never recall any attempts to coerce. It's only on trinitarianism where people feel self-righteous enough to appeal to coercion. Very disturbing. One must violate the 1C or go to hell.

 

[BarneyFife]

Hmmm. I did address the remarks you made. You asked, why especially, I explained. Then you spoke of what is genuine, and I explained.

What would it take for you to feel like I did address the remarks you made? I really do want you to feel that I did respond, even if it was not agreeing with you.

There is nothing in the text of 1C to especially include the trinity as another god as I see it.

And I do not know that trinitarianism is not genuine for the reasons you cited.

You seem to be lumping me in with a Catholic-like view of the Godhead to which I do not subscribe.

:)

 

[BarneyFife]

Do you deny trinitarians have used coercion on this very forum and even this very thread?!

I do not deny it but I also do not know the extent to which coercion has been used.

If you compare the energy of trinitarian doctrine to, say soul sleep or OSAS, there is no comparison. I believe we are of the same mind on OSAS. But among such debates, I never recall any attempts to coerce. It's only on trinitarianism where people feel self-righteous enough to appeal to coercion. Very disturbing. One must violate the 1C or go to hell.

I diametrically disagree. In my mind, eternal security is perhaps the most hotly debated topics on this forum, with the only close rival being law and grace.

I think you might be suffering from a biased view of the situation.

:)

 

[David in NJ]

That is possible but does not change the fact. Do you deny trinitarians have used coercion on this very forum and even this very thread?!

If you compare the energy of trinitarian doctrine to, say soul sleep or OSAS, there is no comparison. I believe we are of the same mind on OSAS. But among such debates, I never recall any attempts to coerce. It's only on trinitarianism where people feel self-righteous enough to appeal to coercion. Very disturbing. One must violate the 1C or go to hell.

What is the coercion you speak of?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

hmm, do you have a v in this context? ty
wadr i think you added “human?”
i mean He is calling Himself “son of man” after all?

Son of Man is a Jewish title that means He is the Messiah- the Son of God.

what do you mean by a V?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The glaring fault in that argument is that God never said his name was "I Am" in the first place.

The Jewish Tanakh gives the meaning of God’s name (YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah) as “I Will Be What I Will Be”.
"14 God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"
https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9864

Yes it can be rendered that was also. If the tense of the Hebrew inf=nflects that. But when in the present it is I am who I am.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Like you stated sir, the King James Version, not ours. May I ask why your translators translated theos as a god at Acts 28:6 but as God in Jn 1:1? Do you think that was deliberate sir? I do!

I am surprised you wouldn't know this. Because it was the pagans on Malta speaking and they believed in a pantheon of gods and assumed Paul was one of them.

John 1:17 ? 17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Did you mean 1:18?

But if you wish I can get into all the boring details of Grammar and personal and impersonal nouns and how an anarthrous noun is determined to have an indefinite article added or not.

 

[Taken]

You and I fully realize that Isa 9:6 is a prophecy about Jesus, however since Jesus is not God, those titles that are applied to him are applied for a reason Taken. Since you highlighted the Everlasting Father, I will explain why Jesus was given that title, even though the Bible clearly shows that Jehovah is the Father. It is through Jesus Christ that regeneration to life comes. He is called “the last Adam . . . a life-giving spirit.” (1Co 15:45) As you stated prophecy designates him as “Eternal Father” (Isa 9:6) and as the one who “poured out his soul to the very death,” whose soul is ‘set as a guilt offering.’ He, as such “Father,” is able to regenerate mankind, thus giving life to those who exercise faith in the offering of his soul and are obedient.—Isa 53:10-12.

This explanation is not contradictory to the Bible as a whole. It may be right or it may be wrong, but Jesus personally stated that he is not the Father, and that the Father who is named Jehovah in the Bible is his God. If your understanding contradicts other Bible teachings, then it is your understanding that is in error, not the Bible.

I am not sure WHO you believe YOUR WORD is...but MY WORD, IS ME, just as EVERY other "PART" of me, that I claim AS MINE..IS me.
My blood, My heart, My hands, My stomach....mine, mine, mine....ME.
So also is MY WORD...mine, ME.

Gods THOUGHTS, Gods POWER, Gods HANDS, Gods WORD....IS GOD.

Gods THOUGHTS, Gods POWER, Gods WORD....comes forth OUT FROM GOD...WHILE it REMAINS IN God.

God has Numerous Names, Titles, Descriptions...ooh, imagine this...so also do ONE SAME man, have numerous Names, Titles, Descriptions!

And ... Everyone Shall receive a NEW NAME.
So whatever men are CALLING God, Gods Word, (Jesus), Gods Son, (Jesus) Gods High Priest (Lord), Gods Power (Christ), Gods Seed (Christ), Gods Wisdom (Christ), etc.
God decided...what He would be called, by men on this Earth...
Just like men decide what they will be called, by men on this Earth...
And ALL of those names WILL CHANGE, when a man sits IN and WITH, their everlasting Father, IN HIS KINGDOM. :)

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Have you ever studied that verse in Greek?

chuckle

 

[Angelina]

First, you might specify by asking 'Is Jesus God the Father?' Trinitarians will simply say that Jesus is God because the Father, Son and HG are ALL God.

While the Son is in the flesh, He does not know certain things to come. It is only after He has ascended that He can then, again, reunite with the Father and know all things to come.

Remember that God the Father remained outside of time and thus was capable of being two places at once. A difficult concept for us to fathom. The Father was outside of physical time and space before, during and after indwelling the physical body of Christ. He is who Christ prayed to as an example to us of how to live righteously in God's Way.

The Matthew 10:40 verse shows Jesus referring to it as HIS right hand. In many other verses, Jesus is referred to AS God's right hand. The verse also strongly implies Him, Jesus, seated on THE throne.

When John sees his vision in Revelation, he sees only ONE in heaven upon the throne.
" ... behold, a throne set in heaven, and One sat on the throne." Revelation 4:2
What happened to Jesus? Is He no longer significant? On the mighty contrary.

Who sits on a throne? A king - not a prince.
If Jesus (the prince/the Son) has become the king, where has the Father gone?

Is it called the Wrath of Jesus, or the Wrath of God? Then why do we see Jesus delivering this Wrath?
"And I saw heaven opened and behold a white horse; and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True (the Father is often referred to in scripture as being Faithful to all His promises and Jesus is the Truth), and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. ... and His name is called the Word of God.(Jesus per John 1:1, 14)"
Revelation 19:11,13
"And (all) the armies which were in heaven followed Him (Jesus is the Lord of Hosts [angel armies]) ... and He treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and Wrath of Almighty God (the Father). And He hath on His vesture and on His thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. (the Father/Jesus)
Revelation 19:14-16

There are countless other verses all throughout the Bible that use the same descriptions for the Father as for Jesus, and the same duties and actions for both, etc.

Another contrast of note is that many pagan religions over the millennia have held and worshiped multiple deities as their gods. Christianity is all about ONE Almighty God. The One and Only Creator.

One Savior, One Faith, One Truth.

John 10:30 "I and the Father are ONE."

well said!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Confession of Faith

I believe in God, the Almighty, Father, Creator

of heavens and earth,

and in Jesus Christ his only-begotten Son, our Lord,

conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary,

who under Pontius Pilate suffered and was crucified,

who descended into hell, died and was buried

and on the third day according to the Scriptures rose

from the dead,

who ascended to heaven and sits on the right hand of

the power of God,

hence He shall come to judge the living and the dead,

I believe in the Holy Spirit;

I believe one Christian Church of the elect,

the holy communion of believers,

the forgiveness of sin, the everlasting life and the resurrection,

in the glorified body of flesh.


I believe the Scriptures, the true, only and closed canon

of authority for and in the faith, doctrine and living.

God speaks in the Scriptures

through his Spirit in the Congregation

of the Son in Whom we have life.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy--SabbathTruth.com
No amount of commandment-keeping can atone for a man's sin.

Are you Hal Holbrook?