Hypostatic Dilemma - Do you have one?

face2face · Jan 11, 2025

Trinitarianism asserts that Jesus was both fully God and fully man, commonly referred to as the "God-man." However, this teaching inherently requires Jesus to be both "God" and "not-God" simultaneously, unless one equates "man" with "God." Attempting to address this issue by appealing to the hypostatic union—understood as the union of two natures in the person of Jesus—merely restates the problem without providing a solution. Moreover, it introduces an unbiblical concept in place of clear biblical evidence.

It’s important to note that I do not claim that by becoming both God and man, Jesus would become two separate beings or persons. However, it’s undeniable that, according to this view, he would possess two mutually exclusive natures, each with its distinct attributes. This position is neither biblically sound nor logically coherent.

As a result, the hypostatic union turns into the "hypostatic dilemma," a challenge that even Trinitarian scholars acknowledge by recognizing the various issues that arise from it. For instance, questions emerge such as:

- Why did Jesus seem to lack omniscience?
- Was he capable of sin? (Trinitarians are divided!)
- Did he perform miracles through the power of the Holy Spirit or through his inherent divine power?

Furthermore, was Mary legitimately referred to as "Theotokos" (God-bearer) because she bore the Son of God? While the Eastern Church affirmed this title, the Western Church rejected it as heretical, a disagreement that played a role in the Great Schism of AD 1054, which formally divided the Catholic and Orthodox churches.

It has become increasingly evident from the ongoing debates here that these and similar issues have troubled Trinitarianism for centuries and continue to remain unresolved.

(Personal note: I would prefer to include Bible verses and offer a thoughtful, contextual analysis of the Word; however, I believe this is the first OP without any Scripture references.)

APAK · Jan 11, 2025

face2face said:
Trinitarianism asserts that Jesus was both fully God and fully man, commonly referred to as the "God-man." However, this teaching inherently requires Jesus to be both "God" and "not-God" simultaneously, unless one equates "man" with "God." Attempting to address this issue by appealing to the hypostatic union—understood as the union of two natures in the person of Jesus—merely restates the problem without providing a solution. Moreover, it introduces an unbiblical concept in place of clear biblical evidence.

It’s important to note that I do not claim that by becoming both God and man, Jesus would become two separate beings or persons. However, it’s undeniable that, according to this view, he would possess two mutually exclusive natures, each with its distinct attributes. This position is neither biblically sound nor logically coherent.

As a result, the hypostatic union turns into the "hypostatic dilemma," a challenge that even Trinitarian scholars acknowledge by recognizing the various issues that arise from it. For instance, questions emerge such as:

- Why did Jesus seem to lack omniscience?
- Was he capable of sin? (Trinitarians are divided!)
- Did he perform miracles through the power of the Holy Spirit or through his inherent divine power?

Furthermore, was Mary legitimately referred to as "Theotokos" (God-bearer) because she bore the Son of God? While the Eastern Church affirmed this title, the Western Church rejected it as heretical, a disagreement that played a role in the Great Schism of AD 1054, which formally divided the Catholic and Orthodox churches.

It has become increasingly evident from the ongoing debates here that these and similar issues have troubled Trinitarianism for centuries and continue to remain unresolved.

(Personal note: I would prefer to include Bible verses and offer a thoughtful, contextual analysis of the Word; however, I believe this is the first OP without any Scripture references.)

Well written. And scripture is lacking anyway on this useless Trinitarian device call hypostatic union, of the supposed theoretic Greek gods mythological view, of two natures/2 spirits born as the essence of Yahshua' divine personality that lacks being a human person, if all that can be grasped, even after the 100th time thinking about it. Personally it gives me a headache, as it's all nonsense and illogical.

Ronald Nolette · Jan 12, 2025

face2face said:
Trinitarianism asserts that Jesus was both fully God and fully man, commonly referred to as the "God-man." However, this teaching inherently requires Jesus to be both "God" and "not-God" simultaneously, unless one equates "man" with "God." Attempting to address this issue by appealing to the hypostatic union—understood as the union of two natures in the person of Jesus—merely restates the problem without providing a solution. Moreover, it introduces an unbiblical concept in place of clear biblical evidence.

It’s important to note that I do not claim that by becoming both God and man, Jesus would become two separate beings or persons. However, it’s undeniable that, according to this view, he would possess two mutually exclusive natures, each with its distinct attributes. This position is neither biblically sound nor logically coherent.

As a result, the hypostatic union turns into the "hypostatic dilemma," a challenge that even Trinitarian scholars acknowledge by recognizing the various issues that arise from it. For instance, questions emerge such as:

- Why did Jesus seem to lack omniscience?
- Was he capable of sin? (Trinitarians are divided!)
- Did he perform miracles through the power of the Holy Spirit or through his inherent divine power?

Furthermore, was Mary legitimately referred to as "Theotokos" (God-bearer) because she bore the Son of God? While the Eastern Church affirmed this title, the Western Church rejected it as heretical, a disagreement that played a role in the Great Schism of AD 1054, which formally divided the Catholic and Orthodox churches.

It has become increasingly evident from the ongoing debates here that these and similar issues have troubled Trinitarianism for centuries and continue to remain unresolved.

(Personal note: I would prefer to include Bible verses and offer a thoughtful, contextual analysis of the Word; however, I believe this is the first OP without any Scripture references.)

Just because you cannot wrap your finite mind around infinite reality- that is not a problem. No one fully understands it but we accept it because it is true!

5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the Lord, and depart from evil.

Windmill Charge · Jan 15, 2025

Philippians 2
New International Version - UK
Imitating Christ’s humility
2 Therefore if you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any common sharing in the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, 2 then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. 3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, 4 not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.

5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

6 who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death –
even death on a cross!

9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

As John 1 says Jesus made everything that has been made. He is untreated, the 2nd person of the trinity.

Johann · Jan 15, 2025

face2face said:
Trinitarianism asserts that Jesus was both fully God and fully man, commonly referred to as the "God-man." However, this teaching inherently requires Jesus to be both "God" and "not-God" simultaneously, unless one equates "man" with "God." Attempting to address this issue by appealing to the hypostatic union—understood as the union of two natures in the person of Jesus—merely restates the problem without providing a solution. Moreover, it introduces an unbiblical concept in place of clear biblical evidence.

It’s important to note that I do not claim that by becoming both God and man, Jesus would become two separate beings or persons. However, it’s undeniable that, according to this view, he would possess two mutually exclusive natures, each with its distinct attributes. This position is neither biblically sound nor logically coherent.

As a result, the hypostatic union turns into the "hypostatic dilemma," a challenge that even Trinitarian scholars acknowledge by recognizing the various issues that arise from it. For instance, questions emerge such as:

- Why did Jesus seem to lack omniscience?
- Was he capable of sin? (Trinitarians are divided!)
- Did he perform miracles through the power of the Holy Spirit or through his inherent divine power?

Furthermore, was Mary legitimately referred to as "Theotokos" (God-bearer) because she bore the Son of God? While the Eastern Church affirmed this title, the Western Church rejected it as heretical, a disagreement that played a role in the Great Schism of AD 1054, which formally divided the Catholic and Orthodox churches.

It has become increasingly evident from the ongoing debates here that these and similar issues have troubled Trinitarianism for centuries and continue to remain unresolved.

(Personal note: I would prefer to include Bible verses and offer a thoughtful, contextual analysis of the Word; however, I believe this is the first OP without any Scripture references.)