How to defend the trinity?

[farouk]

I could answer that question... LOL

@Addy Father, Son and Holy Spirit are indeed deeply present in the New Testament especially. Good of ppl just acknowledge it in faith rather than argue, right...? :)

 

[Brakelite]

There can only be one head of the church on earth!

one who is prime minister over the kingdom having the jurisdictional authority of the keys of the kingdom of heaven!!! Peter and his successors alone!

Not according to any of the scriptures you quoted. Nor can you prove that you have any more right to claim authority than I. In fact, I have already exercised authority many times in the name of Jesus, and God backed it up.

 

[Brakelite]

the church teach what Christ revealed eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

Well, the church did then, sure. But it wasn't long before the church, at least your church, was teaching something totally different. And according to your own testimony, they're teaching something else today. Your church has about as much credibility as my neighbors cat.

 

[theefaith]

Not according to any of the scriptures you quoted. Nor can you prove that you have any more right to claim authority than I. In fact, I have already exercised authority many times in the name of Jesus, and God backed it up.

where’s that in scripture

I backup all I say in scripture

who is as the administrator of the kingdom or prime minister of the kingdom of Egypt in the time of Jacob?

pharaoh?

 

[theefaith]

Well, the church did then, sure. But it wasn't long before the church, at least your church, was teaching something totally different. And according to your own testimony, they're teaching something else today. Your church has about as much credibility as my neighbors cat.

be specific?

 

[Brakelite]

where’s that in scripture

I backup all I say in scripture

who is as the administrator of the kingdom or prime minister of the kingdom of Egypt in the time of Jacob?

pharaoh?

Christ is King. Your pope may claim to be a king, but Christ did not appoint anyone else to His position. He is well capable of ministering to His people without the necessity of a counterfeit mediatory.

 

[Brakelite]

be specific?

You don't remember telling everyone here that your church has been in a state of apostasy for several hundred years? I would state your church has been in apostasy since the 6th century when she accepted the baubles of political office from the dragon.
KJV Revelation 13:2
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

 

[theefaith]

Christ is King. Your pope may claim to be a king, but Christ did not appoint anyone else to His position. He is well capable of ministering to His people without the necessity of a counterfeit mediatory.

you need to explain scripture

do men have the ministry of reconciliation?

be nice if you could actually answer my questions

 

[theefaith]

You don't remember telling everyone here that your church has been in a state of apostasy for several hundred years? I would state your church has been in apostasy since the 6th century when she accepted the baubles of political office from the dragon.
KJV Revelation 13:2
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

explain matt 16:18-19

 

[Brakelite]

explain matt 16:18-19

Do those scriptures say that no branch or facet of the church will apostatize? Or is Jesus saying that the church as a whole shall survive the testing and temptations of the enemy? Catholics blindly and stubbornly resist the idea that there were Christians upon the earth throughout Christian history, right from the time of the resurrection, in various parts of the earth that held to the truth but weren't a part of the Catholic system. They were persecuted at times, at times nature moved them on, and at times they died of old age, but there were always churches and communities somewhere who were true to the faith. If you think that was impossible, then you are denying the power of God, and you deny history.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

Depends on what you mean by trinity. Do you mean what the Bible actually teaches concerning the trinity/Godhead, or do you mean the Orthodox creeds concerning the trinity? I can certainly defend the Godhead, and three divine persons from scripture, that's easy. Defending the Orthodox Trinity and it's man inspired assumptions is another matter all together.

There is absolutely no biblical way of proving any kind of trinity doctrine as being true though, whether orthodox or personal. A person would have to twist scripture and ignore all of the passages that clearly disprove it in order to argue for it.

Regeting Jesus has nothing to do with believing Jesus is God. It means regecting him as your savior. Thats what I think.

What you personally think doesn't matter though. A Christian is supposed to believe what Christ said, and He said He is God in Jhn. 8. Matter of fact, the NT teaches that Christ was the OT God. How can anyone logically say they believe in Christ as the Messiah while rejecting the fact that He's God? If you don't believe He's God, then you're essentially saying the Orthodox Jews of His day were right when they accused Him of blasphemy.

Think!!! Why would Jesus say==Matthew 28:19 to go into all the world making disciples and baptizing them in the name of the ""Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.""

None of that proves what you think it does.

@Addy Father, Son and Holy Spirit are indeed deeply present in the New Testament especially. Good of ppl just acknowledge it in faith rather than argue, right...? :)

Paul said a Christian is to prove ALL things, not assume them to be true. If the trinity is true as its adherents assume it is, they should be able to prove it and not expect people to just "acknowledge it in faith". Christ commended the Ephesus era for testing the doctrines of false teachers against the scriptures instead of just taking their word for it. Paul also commended the Bereans for testing what he taught them against the scriptures instead of just taking his word for it, even though he was a true apostle. A lot of "Christians" don't bother proving anything or they can't, which is why they believe so many false doctrines like the trinity.

 

[theefaith]

There is absolutely no biblical way of proving any kind of trinity doctrine as being true though, whether orthodox or personal. A person would have to twist scripture and ignore all of the passages that clearly disprove it in order to argue for it.
What you personally think doesn't matter though. A Christian is supposed to believe what Christ said, and He said He is God in Jhn. 8. Matter of fact, the NT teaches that Christ was the OT God. How can anyone logically say they believe in Christ as the Messiah while rejecting the fact that He's God? If you don't believe He's God, then you're essentially saying the Orthodox Jews of His day were right when they accused Him of blasphemy.
None of that proves what you think it does.
Paul said a Christian is to prove ALL things, not assume them to be true. If the trinity is true as its adherents assume it is, they should be able to prove it and not expect people to just "acknowledge it in faith". Christ commended the Ephesus era for testing the doctrines of false teachers against the scriptures instead of just taking their word for it. Paul also commended the Bereans for testing what he taught them against the scriptures instead of just taking his word for it, even though he was a true apostle. A lot of "Christians" don't bother proving anything or they can't, which is why they believe so many false doctrines like the trinity.

There is absolutely no biblical way of proving any kind of trinity doctrine

how about Matt 16:18 matt 18:18 Matt 28:19 Jn 20:21-23

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Here are twenty five (25) passages from the OT which refer to [יהוה/YHWH] paired with verses in the NT which apply [יהוה/YHWH] to Jesus.

[1] Isa 40:3 ¶ The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD [יהוה], make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

N.T. reference.
Matt 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. [Mk 1:3, Lk 3:4, John 1:23]
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[2] Ps 8:1 ¶ <<To the chief Musician upon Gittith, A Psalm of David.>> O LORD [יהוה] our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.
2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.

N.T. reference.
Matt 21:15 And when the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying in the temple, and saying, Hosanna to the Son of David; they were sore displeased,
16 And said unto him, Hearest thou what these say? And Jesus saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?
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[3] Ps 68:18 You have ascended on high; you have carried away captives; you have taken gifts in the form of men, Yes, even the stubborn ones, to reside among them, O Jah God." ("Jah" is an abbreviated form of the name Jehovah.)

N.T. reference.
Ephesians 4:7-10: "Now to each one of us undeserved kindness was given according to how the Christ measured out the free gift. Wherefore he says: 'When he ascended on high he carried away captives; he gave gifts in men.' Now the expression 'he ascended,' what does it mean but that he also descended into the lower regions, that is, the earth? The very one that descended is also the one that ascended far above all the heavens, that he might give fulness to all things."
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[4] Mal 3:1 ¶ Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD [יהוה ] of hosts.

N.T. reference.
Luk 1:76 And thou, child, [John] shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord [Jesus] to prepare his ways;
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[5] Isa 10:33 Behold, the Lord, the LORD [יהוה] of hosts, shall lop the bough with terror: and the high ones of stature shall be hewn down, and the haughty shall be humbled.

N.T. reference.
Rom 9:28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
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[6] Isa 49:23 And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD [יהוה]: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me.

N.T. reference.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him [the Lord Jesus vs. 9] shall not be ashamed.

1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
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[7] Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD [יהוה] shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD [יהוה] hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD [יהוה] shall call.

N.T. reference.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord [Jesus vs. 9] shall be saved.
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[8] Isa 45:23 I [יהוה vs. 21, 24] have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

N.T. reference.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, [Christ, vs. 10] every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

Philip 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
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[9] Jer 9:24 But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD [יהוה] which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth:for in these things I delight, saith the LORD [יהוה] .

N.T. reference.
1 Cor 1:31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. [Christ, vs. 30]


[10] Num 16:5 And he spake unto Korah and unto all his company, saying, Even to morrow the LORD [יהוה] will shew who are his, and who is holy; and will cause him to come near unto him: even him whom he hath chosen will he cause to come near unto him.

N.T. reference.
2 Tim 2:19 ¶ Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
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[11] Ps 130:8 And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.

N.T. reference.
Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
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[12] Ps 97:7 Confounded be all they that serve graven images, that boast themselves of idols: worship him, all ye gods.

N.T. reference.
Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
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[13] Ps 45:6 ¶ Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.

N.T. reference.
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
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[14] Ps 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.
26 They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:
27 But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end

Isa 51:6 Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation [ישׁועה] /Yeshuah] shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.

N.T. reference.
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, [Jesus/ישׁוע] /Yeshua, vss. 2, 5, 8, 9] in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
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[15] Ps 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD [יהוה] is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.

N.T. reference.
1 Pet 2:3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
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Thank you for the comparative study of Old Testament scriptures that equate God (YHWH) with New Testament scriptures of Christ. Excellent!
Jesus said, I am He, Who spoke to you in the scriptures. The Apostles evangelized the Jews and Gentiles this way, showing that Jesus was the fulfillment of Messianic prophecies and the God of the Old Testament who spoke to them.

 

[jessiblue]

The Trinity is described in many scriptures. Here’s a very beautiful one:

2 Corinthians 13:14

14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you all. Amen.

jb

 

[ChristisGod]

There is absolutely no biblical way of proving any kind of trinity doctrine as being true though, whether orthodox or personal. A person would have to twist scripture and ignore all of the passages that clearly disprove it in order to argue for it.
What you personally think doesn't matter though. A Christian is supposed to believe what Christ said, and He said He is God in Jhn. 8. Matter of fact, the NT teaches that Christ was the OT God. How can anyone logically say they believe in Christ as the Messiah while rejecting the fact that He's God? If you don't believe He's God, then you're essentially saying the Orthodox Jews of His day were right when they accused Him of blasphemy.
None of that proves what you think it does.
Paul said a Christian is to prove ALL things, not assume them to be true. If the trinity is true as its adherents assume it is, they should be able to prove it and not expect people to just "acknowledge it in faith". Christ commended the Ephesus era for testing the doctrines of false teachers against the scriptures instead of just taking their word for it. Paul also commended the Bereans for testing what he taught them against the scriptures instead of just taking his word for it, even though he was a true apostle. A lot of "Christians" don't bother proving anything or they can't, which is why they believe so many false doctrines like the trinity.

Are you oneness ?

 

[GEN2REV]

How do you defend the trinity from the Bible alone?

Why are you seeking to defend something that you don't even understand?

Clearly from this thread you don't understand the trinity or you wouldn't be asking for help in defending it.

Wise advice: Seek to understand a concept before getting behind it and fighting for it.

Little secret just between you and me: Nobody understands the trintiy ... nobody. Ssshhhhh...

Even the most outspoken quasi-authorities on the matter admit they don't understand it.

A single lie must have countless other lies to stand upon and to support it. A lie can never be proven or understood by logic or reason.

The lie of the trinity doesn't stand up to even the simplest investigation into scripture or even spiritual logic.

Those who embrace the trinity do so based on emotion and/or relation. It simply doesn't add up to the weight of scripture and it never will.

 

[theefaith]

Why are you seeking to defend something that you don't even understand?

Clearly from this thread you don't understand the trinity or you wouldn't be asking for help in defending it.

Wise advice: Seek to understand a concept before getting behind it and fighting for it.

Little secret just between you and me: Nobody understands the trintiy ... nobody. Ssshhhhh...

Even the most outspoken quasi-authorities on the matter admit they don't understand it.

A single lie must have countless other lies to stand upon and to support it. A lie can never be proven or understood by logic or reason.

The lie of the trinity doesn't stand up to even the simplest investigation into scripture or even spiritual logic.

Those who embrace the trinity do so based on emotion and/or relation. It simply doesn't add up to the weight of scripture and it never will.

where does it say it has to be found in scripture? Acts 2:42
Doctrine of the apostles is the rule of faith not scripture alone
Where does Christ or scripture say all divine truths are in scripture?

So it’s a mystery we cannot understand, that does not make it untrue

Christ and his church are one that’s a mystery but it’s still true

Ephesians 5:32
This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Just how we are united to Christ in baptism thru grace is a mystery!

 

[theefaith]

Why are you seeking to defend something that you don't even understand?

Clearly from this thread you don't understand the trinity or you wouldn't be asking for help in defending it.

Wise advice: Seek to understand a concept before getting behind it and fighting for it.

Little secret just between you and me: Nobody understands the trintiy ... nobody. Ssshhhhh...

Even the most outspoken quasi-authorities on the matter admit they don't understand it.

A single lie must have countless other lies to stand upon and to support it. A lie can never be proven or understood by logic or reason.

The lie of the trinity doesn't stand up to even the simplest investigation into scripture or even spiritual logic.

Those who embrace the trinity do so based on emotion and/or relation. It simply doesn't add up to the weight of scripture and it never will.

the saints all accept the trinity and the ancient creeds only heretics reject it

you think you’re smarter than Augustine or Aquinas?

 

[GEN2REV]

So it’s a mystery we cannot understand, that does not make it untrue

The most convenient, and only, TRUTH of the 3-headed beast.

the saints all accept the trinity and the ancient creeds only heretics reject it

If that were true, they would have baptized into the trinity. They did not. Ever.

you think you’re smarter than Augustine or Aquinas?

I can't speak to their level of intelligence, but if they embraced the trinity doctrine, they were plainly duped … or advocates of the devil.

 

[theefaith]

Why are you seeking to defend something that you don't even understand?

Clearly from this thread you don't understand the trinity or you wouldn't be asking for help in defending it.

Wise advice: Seek to understand a concept before getting behind it and fighting for it.

Little secret just between you and me: Nobody understands the trintiy ... nobody. Ssshhhhh...

Even the most outspoken quasi-authorities on the matter admit they don't understand it.

A single lie must have countless other lies to stand upon and to support it. A lie can never be proven or understood by logic or reason.

The lie of the trinity doesn't stand up to even the simplest investigation into scripture or even spiritual logic.

Those who embrace the trinity do so based on emotion and/or relation. It simply doesn't add up to the weight of scripture and it never will.

is Christ eternal?