How close is the Seven Year Tribulation?

[tgwprophet]

BibleScribe, I have considered your words even more...

"But when the self professed experts have only a few of the answers, then I would propose they have NONE of the answers.
BibleScribe"

In relation to a few, where would it be beyond few and reach many? Have you a line in the sand that everyone need abide? Where did you get that right?
In my studies and research I sought resolve for certain aspects, mainly those providing proof of God, which God, who is Jesus, How does prophecy provide proof the God of the Jews and of the Hebrews and of the Christains are the same God and the only True God and proof Jesus is the Son of God. My intentions were to allowme the ability to confront, debate, discuss an/or challenge those who believe in the wrong god or no god. Secondly, my desires were to ascertain how to recognize the signs of the times, meaning when will we be in the time of Revelations, Tribulations, understanding the rapture and its purpose, being able to effectively recognize the anti-christ, the false prophet, the two witnesses and more and to beable to make a revelation time-line calendar... plus more.

When I got to the area of the king of the south is if Egypt and the king of the north as if Russia, if Cyprus is what was considered the east or if the philistines would inhabit lands along the eastern shore of Israel or even if Spain and France was considered that place along with or without the rest of Europe... I believed it was in my best interests at that time to continue my studies in the direction my heart had led me. The only Glorious Land I have ever considered as such, is Israel. Now, if my understanding is not inline with your understanding please tell me what should be done when you are proven wrong?
With that, please refrain from any barbs. I actually like most of your challenges, but not insults.

 

[BibleScribe]

...
Another barb trying to relate me to a fool? ...

Please re-read my post, excerpted as follows:

... -- not that I should imply that anyone is a fool. ...

Lincoln's point is that if you don't know something, DON'T GUESS. It only makes you look bad.

....
When I got to the area of the king of the south is if Egypt and the king of the north as if Russia, if Cyprus is what was considered the east or if the philistines would inhabit lands along the eastern shore of Israel or even if Spain and France was considered that place along with or without the rest of Europe... I believed it was in my best interests at that time to continue my studies in the direction my heart had led me. The only Glorious Land I have ever considered as such, is Israel.

Geography is NOT a candidate for this prophecy. One nation meets the stipulated sequence, toward the south, the east, and the glorious land, -- and you have not provided that fulfillment. As such, if you can't resolve the simple, then I would once again assert that you cannot resolve the 2,300.

As such, it is extremely ill advised for you to propose a 2,300 fulfillment which is without foundation. However, if you wish to resolve the TRUTH of the prophecy, I would be more than glad to walk through this 8th Chapter with you.


BibleScribe

 

[BibleScribe]

To All,

Please be aware that Daniel 12:4 & 9 DEMAND that the prophecies are end-time. Thus I would anticipate that era as approximate to 1948. As such, I would equally observe that a Grecian Empires (~230 BC) assigned ~fulfillment~ not only fails to meet the prophetic specifics (for which it CERTAINLY fails), but that one of the three superpowers does meet the Scriptural dictate:

DANIEL 8:14 “Out of one of them came forth a little horn, which grew exceedingly great toward the south, toward the east, and toward the glorious land.”

Of course we probably should start at the beginning of this 8th Chapter to properly present the full context, however, for a simple snapshot, please allow the following:

Between the years 882 and 1200 A.D., Russia existed as an approximate 80,000 square mile country just east of modern Poland. This region struggled against the Vikings to the north and the Batya’s Mongols to the east. Peaceful Khazars lived to the south, just north of the Black Sea. The navigable north-south river waterway trade routes provided a region rich in commerce, with natural defensive lines.

In 972 the Russians handily defeated the Khazars to the south, gaining territory to the Black Sea, only to have the fierce Polovsty’s occupy the same land by 1093. By 1147, Moscow established itself as the commercial center of Russia. The 1200’s saw the Russians and Polovsty’s unite (“toward the south”) in daunting attempts to withstand the Mongol hordes. By the 1500’s the Mongol threat had evaporated, the Russians expanded “toward the east” across the former land of the Mongols, and subsequently colonized Alaska* in 1815.[1]

The last portion of this prophecy, “and toward the glorious land,” has yet to be fulfilled, and is described in Ezekiel 38 & 39, and in Daniel 11:40-44.


​

[1] Geoffrey Barraclough, The Times Atlas of World History, Revised Edition, Hammond Inc., NJ, 1984, p. 114, 128, 230



BibleScribe

​

 

[veteran]

Do we all understand that the trib will be cut short?

Obviously not. Most here are still struggling with the idea of what the great tribulation is even going to be about.

 

[BibleScribe]

... most are struggling how long it is, -- as evidenced by the Title of this Topic.

Specifically, Revelation 13:5 says 42 months. However, teachers have falsely assigned the Daniel Chapter 9 seventieth week as the ~tribulation~. Thus many errantly believe that event will last seven years.

But the fact is, the tribulation is 42 months, and will commence in 2014, and end in 2018.



Are you prepared?

BibleScribe

 

[tgwprophet]

BibleScribe, i even got my east and west confused guess that can happen with lack of sleep (which i never get enough of). As far as the Tribulation being cut short... I think 7 years is cutting it short, thus explaining that portion of prophecy... Moses was in the wilderness 40 years. When you attempt to cut Tribliation to 42 months..ie roughly 1280 days roughly. Meaning Armageddon must be immediately at that time... And you count back 2,300 days to discover the point at which the Daily Sacrifice must then commence, which would be 1020 days before Tribulation starts...33,4 months...2years and 9 months and 3 days roughly...Then we take your time frame of the start of Tribulation - 2014... and count back 2 years and 9 months roughly..then the Daily Sacrifice must begin...(if we use decemmber of 2014)... in Jannuary of 2012... If you use a medium point of July 2014 the the DailySacricfe must begin - July 2011, meaning already started! Currrently it is September...your understanndinng will be tested really really soon,

 

[tgwprophet]

Bbilescribe... Fulfilllment of the 2300 days begins whe the Daily Sacrifice begins,it ends with cleansing of the temple. My consideration is simply that when the cleaning of the temple is known... it is because the Jews have recognized the anti-chrst and
because they now recognize the anti-christ (whom they allowed access to the inner-sanctum), undertand it must be cleansed. The Jews recognize this after the two witnesses ascend to heaven and a 10th of the city is destroyed. This does not mean the Jews then recognize Jesus nor confess him. Tribulation is a 7 year period. The first 1/2 of Triibulation is not a horrific time, but rather a time of bounty as Satan attempts to "buy" the people. This explains people being spared the wrath of Tribulation yet going through a portion of it.

 

[veteran]

Lord Jesus did say He shortened it for sake of His elect.

The Dan.9 final "one week" prophecy is about the tribulation time he was given.

Per that 70 weeks prophecy, "one week" equals a period of 7 years, regardless of what Jews say it represents.

 

[BibleScribe]

Bbilescribe... Fulfilllment of the 2300 days begins whe the Daily Sacrifice begins,it ends with cleansing of the temple. My consideration is simply that when the cleaning of the temple is known... it is because the Jews have recognized the anti-chrst and
because they now recognize the anti-christ (whom they allowed access to the inner-sanctum), undertand it must be cleansed. The Jews recognize this after the two witnesses ascend to heaven and a 10th of the city is destroyed. This does not mean the Jews then recognize Jesus nor confess him. Tribulation is a 7 year period. The first 1/2 of Triibulation is not a horrific time, but rather a time of bounty as Satan attempts to "buy" the people. This explains people being spared the wrath of Tribulation yet going through a portion of it.

Veteran, let me ask you this, --

Which is worse, sacrificing a pig on an alter, or murdering a couple of dozen Jews in a Synagogue?



Secondly, would it make any difference to you if non-Jewish Scholars said the Masculine gender text is NOT a literal seven, but "which duration must be determined on other grounds"? Would it make any difference to you that there are TWO anointed ones (small "a")? Would it make any difference to that that there is absolutely NO ancient fufillment, but that the prophecy is modern?



Ref: http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/14343-when-did-jesus-say-he-would-return/page__st__60

* The interpretation is NOT from the book of Jeremiah.
* The "going forth of the word" is NOT from a man, but directly from GOD.
* The shibiym/shabuwa (plural/singular) is not the usual concise Feminine gender, but rather the inconcise Masculine gender.
* The seven and the sixty-two and NOT one number. If the AUTHOR had intended this as such, HE would have simply said ~sixty-nine~.
* There is an anointed one after the seven, and a second anointed one after the sixty-two.
* The term "after" is not immediately, but simply subsequent to.
* The destroyer comes after the seventieth shabuwa.

But until you make a point by point assessment, it appears your ~intuition~ will overrule Scripture.


BibleScribe

 

[BibleScribe]

... When you attempt to cut Tribliation to 42 months..ie roughly 1280 days roughly. Meaning Armageddon must be immediately at that time... And you count back 2,300 days to discover the point at which the Daily Sacrifice must then commence, which would be 1020 days before Tribulation starts...33,4 months...2years and 9 months and 3 days roughly...Then we take your time frame of the start of Tribulation - 2014... and count back 2 years and 9 months roughly.....

Hey Terry,

I don't believe that I was the one who defined the Tribulation as 42 months. -- You might want to assign that determination to Revelation 13:5.

Secondly, if you take the 2,300 out of context from Chapter 8, to an entirely inappropriate assignment, then you're on your own. However, if the 2,300 is a duration which is assigned to the events in Chapter 8, then one should discover that it has nothing to do with the Tribulation. It has a completely different significance.

Have you considered resolving Chapter 8, before you attempt the 2,300?


BibleScribe

 

[us2are1]

I was just curious to know what people thought as to how close we were to the seven year tribulation? I just wanted to say, I didn't really want to turn this thread into a does a seven year tribulation exist vs does not exist thread. If you don't believe in it, great, vote you don't believe in it and move on, or start another thread on why you don't believe in it.

Joshua David

There is only a three and a half year tribulation ever mentioned in scripture. A time, times and a half time in Daniel 12 and 1260 days and forty two months in revelation. All adding up to only three and a half lunar years. The seven year thing is added on speculation of the seventy week prophecy and is grossly misinterpreted.

 

[veteran]

Daniel 9 declares 3 separate periods that make up the total 70 weeks prophecy, where the 'week' periods make up 7 years each.

To try and supplant the final "one week" period of Dan.9:27 with a 3.5 years period means to shorten the whole 70 weeks prophecy by a half a week.

Doing that makes the total come out to 69 and 1/2 weeks, instead of 70 weeks per the prophecy (Dan.9:24).

Obviously then, some here have a big problem in not knowing how to count.

 

[BibleScribe]

...
The seven year thing is added on speculation of the seventy week prophecy and is grossly misinterpreted.

:)


... LOLOL, -- you are exactly correct.


Some, as Montgomery or Newton, recognize the failures, but Daniel 12:4 & 9 restricted their understanding. And now, since ~1948, I would argue that we can have the full clarity of that prophecy. -- Ummmm, do you have that clarity?


BibleScribe




Hi veteran,

I would observe that some here have a big problem not knowing what Daniel 9 says. Are you willing to walk through the specifics, or are you content with your ~intuition~?



BibleScribe

 

[us2are1]

Daniel 9 declares 3 separate periods that make up the total 70 weeks prophecy, where the 'week' periods make up 7 years each.

To try and supplant the final "one week" period of Dan.9:27 with a 3.5 years period means to shorten the whole 70 weeks prophecy by a half a week.

Doing that makes the total come out to 69 and 1/2 weeks, instead of 70 weeks per the prophecy (Dan.9:24).

Obviously then, some here have a big problem in not knowing how to count.

No it doesn't. Christs three and a half year ministry was the beginning of the seventieth week but he was cut off in the midst of the week. The two witnesses of Christ mentioned in Daniel 12 and Revelation 11 finish the seventieth week and then the end and the Lord comes at the one thousand three hundred and thirty fifth day.

 

[tgwprophet]

Interesting! You have onsidered the one week as 7 years and so arrive at the 3 1/2 year (42 months) mark as the span between the stopping of the Daily Sacrifice and the Abomintion of Desolation. I on the other hand, have taken that same one week and attributed it to the time spent in the inner-sanctum in the time span of 7 days. (Can it be both and we are both correct - yet we have limited our understanding? - I will need to study this further.)

One of the reasons I consider the time of Tribulations to be 7 years is the woman with eagles wings. She is taken to the wilderness for a time and times and dividing of a time. I consider that to be 3 1/2 years. Then, when Satan is cast unto the earth, she is protected again...now, becasue there will be no need for protection after Armageddon, I can only deduce there must be yet a continuation... ie; second half of Tribulation. When the temple stone is set Tribulation begins. 42 months after the temple stone is set the abomination of desolation occurs - this is not Armageddon. Gentiles trod the courtyard for 42 months... I considered this as the Arabs are allowed (for what ever reason) to scrutinize, maybe even assist in the correct positioning of the new temple and possibly even partake of some of the decissions - in an attempt to ensure peace continues.

It is mid-point of Tribulation when Satan is cast unto the earth and so his "time" on the earth is defined as 42 months, ending in Armageddon. Know this BibleScribe: I would that your understanding be more correct than mine and the time is shorter than I understand. With that, understand I am seeking more understanding, yet my conviction remains - but it is not "yet" set in stone. Keep it up, you have shed more light on this.

 

[veteran]

No it doesn't. Christs three and a half year ministry was the beginning of the seventieth week but he was cut off in the midst of the week. The two witnesses of Christ mentioned in Daniel 12 and Revelation 11 finish the seventieth week and then the end and the Lord comes at the one thousand three hundred and thirty fifth day.

Yes it does. Because you're trying to apply men's false doctrines of PRETERISM and HISTORICISM to the Daniel 70 weeks prophecy as already being finished, when it has not yet been completed today.

 

[veteran]

Interesting! You have onsidered the one week as 7 years and so arrive at the 3 1/2 year (42 months) mark as the span between the stopping of the Daily Sacrifice and the Abomintion of Desolation. I on the other hand, have taken that same one week and attributed it to the time spent in the inner-sanctum in the time span of 7 days. (Can it be both and we are both correct - yet we have limited our understanding? - I will need to study this further.)

One of the reasons I consider the time of Tribulations to be 7 years is the woman with eagles wings. She is taken to the wilderness for a time and times and dividing of a time. I consider that to be 3 1/2 years. Then, when Satan is cast unto the earth, she is protected again...now, becasue there will be no need for protection after Armageddon, I can only deduce there must be yet a continuation... ie; second half of Tribulation. When the temple stone is set Tribulation begins. 42 months after the temple stone is set the abomination of desolation occurs - this is not Armageddon. Gentiles trod the courtyard for 42 months... I considered this as the Arabs are allowed (for what ever reason) to scrutinize, maybe even assist in the correct positioning of the new temple and possibly even partake of some of the decissions - in an attempt to ensure peace continues.

It is mid-point of Tribulation when Satan is cast unto the earth and so his "time" on the earth is defined as 42 months, ending in Armageddon. Know this BibleScribe: I would that your understanding be more correct than mine and the time is shorter than I understand. With that, understand I am seeking more understanding, yet my conviction remains - but it is not "yet" set in stone. Keep it up, you have shed more light on this.

Another reason why the Daniel 9:27 "one week" CANNOT be limited to a 3.5 year period is because the 2 previous periods within the 70 weeks prophecy HAVE been fulfilled, which started with the command to restore and build Jerusalem and its completion as "seven weeks" (49 years), and the second period was from that to the coming of Christ with "threescore and two weeks" (62 weeks - 434 years). Both periods are completed which total to 69 weeks. The final "one week" of Dan.9:27 is yet to even start, much less be completed.

The setting up the "abomination of desolation" in a Jewish temple in Jerusalem IS the midpoint of Daniel's final "one week" of Dan.9:27. That is the 3.5 years, 1260 days, or 42 months, of both Books of Daniel and Revelation. It's very simple.

But the false Jews, they want us to CHANGE that Dan.9:27 "one week" to mean something else, so we will not be watching the signs of the end our Lord Jesus gave us to be watching, in OUR days. And they DEFINITELY don't want anyone pointing to that abomination of desolation being about an IDOL setup in a rebuilt JEWISH temple in Jerusalem in our near future as per Scripture!

 

[us2are1]

Yes it does. Because you're trying to apply men's false doctrines of PRETERISM and HISTORICISM to the Daniel 70 weeks prophecy as already being finished, when it has not yet been completed today.

I know nothing about the doctrines of which you accuse. I do Know That the Lord has told me that He started the seventieth week and we will finish it. Stay tuned and you will find out what will soon come to pass, whether you receive it or not.

In Daniel 12 verse 1 speaks of the tribulation and verse 7 tells how long it will be.

Daniel 12

1 ---------- And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time.
7 ---------- it shall be for a time, times, and half a time;

 

[veteran]

I know nothing about the doctrines of which you accuse. I do Know That the Lord has told me that He started the seventieth week and we will finish it. Stay tuned and you will find out what will soon come to pass, whether you receive it or not.

In Daniel 12 verse 1 speaks of the tribulation and verse 7 tells how long it will be.

Daniel 12

1 ---------- And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time.
7 ---------- it shall be for a time, times, and half a time;

Well, for one, the 3.5 years of Daniel 12:7 is NOT about the time of Christ's Ministry. Nor is that period of Dan.7:25; Rev.11:2; Rev.12:6, nor Rev.12:14, nor Rev.13:5.

But... the Dan.9:27 "one week" separation with "the midst of the week" into two halves of 3.5 years IS about the Dan.12:1 & 7 Scripture; specifically the last half.

And I'm not specifically accusing you of anything except of being wrong.

 

[tgwprophet]

Vetran, are you telling me BibleScribe is Jewish? I just want to clarify this. BibleScribe, If so, I want you to know I would consider it wonderful.