How close is the Seven Year Tribulation?

[veteran]

Concerning the doctrines of Preterism and Historicism as to the Dan.9:24-27 Scripture, some of them like to treat the end of Christ's Ministry as the fulfillment of the full 70 weeks prophecy.

Yet the Daniel 70 weeks prophecy SPECIFICALLY involves the cleansing of Jerusalem and her people, and anointing of the most Holy (sanctuary).

Dan 8:13-14
13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, "How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?"
14 And he said unto me, "Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed."
(KJV)


Dan 9:24
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
(KJV)

"the most Holy" is about the Millennium sanctuary per the Book of Ezekiel in chapters 40 through 47. It has never been built yet. Nor is it about any other place than on this earth, which location is revealed in the Ezek.47 chapter.

Vetran, are you telling me BibleScribe is Jewish? I just want to clarify this. BibleScribe, If so, I want you to know I would consider it wonderful.

I don't really know if he is or not, and it doesn't matter, for he's following some of their Jewish doctrines about the end times. You might be Jewish as far as I know.

 

[veteran]

One of the reasons I consider the time of Tribulations to be 7 years is the woman with eagles wings. She is taken to the wilderness for a time and times and dividing of a time. I consider that to be 3 1/2 years. Then, when Satan is cast unto the earth, she is protected again... .

After reading your post again, that point about Rev.12, I strongly agree with too. A 1260 day period is given PRIOR to the dragon being cast to the earth, and then another 1260 day period is given AFTER the dragon is cast to the earth. It's simple. The "midst of the week" is when the dragon is cast down to the earth.

...now, becasue there will be no need for protection after Armageddon, I can only deduce there must be yet a continuation... ie; second half of Tribulation. When the temple stone is set Tribulation begins. 42 months after the temple stone is set the abomination of desolation occurs - this is not Armageddon. Gentiles trod the courtyard for 42 months... I considered this as the Arabs are allowed (for what ever reason) to scrutinize, maybe even assist in the correct positioning of the new temple and possibly even partake of some of the decissions - in an attempt to ensure peace continues.

The way the Dan.9:27 verse reads, the 'league' is made for the full "one week" (1260 days + 1260 days = one week). So who is it that makes that 'league' at the start of the 'one week', if not the "vile person" of Dan.11:21-23? If the dragon is not cast down until after... the first half of that one week is over per Rev.12, then it would suggest the dragon is not who will make that 'league', and not the 'vile person'. To prepare for the abomination to be setup, it suggests the temple and sacrifices must be in place prior to the "midst of the week". What say ye?

Our Lord Jesus did refer to both a pseudochristos (spurious messiah), and a pseudoprophetes (spurious prophet), in the Matt.24:24 Scripture. Rev.16:13 also reveals the roles of 1-dragon, 2-beast (1st beast), and 3-false prophet. So at this point, I see Dan.11 about the "vile person" being a blueprint for the combo of the dragon and the false prophet. The false prophet would be the one to make the 'league' at the start of the "one week", with the dragon coming in the "midst of the week" to end sacrifices and place the abomination, and the height of the tribulation of 42 months.


One of the reasons Biblescribe and I can't get discussion past the Dan.9:25-26 Scripture is because of his denial... that the word for anointed is pointing to Christ Jesus Messiah in those verses. The unbelieving Jews still reject that was about the first coming of Jesus Christ Whom they still reject today.

 

[BibleScribe]

Vetran, are you telling me BibleScribe is Jewish? I just want to clarify this. BibleScribe, If so, I want you to know I would consider it wonderful.

Hi Terry,

When Daniel 9 is presented in the full TRUTH of Scripture, "veteran" cannot defend his false doctrine. Thus he makes the accusation that somehow the Jews have contrived an interpretation with denies a "Jesus" fulfillment. However, neither Scripture nor History provide for a "Jesus" fulfillment, and in fact this prophecy belongs to other circumstances.

And just so we all know, I am not Jewish, but as you infer I too have the utmost respect for anyone, Jew or Gentile, who receives Christ as their saviour.


But the point remains, that Daniel 9 is as provided previously:

Ref: http://www.christian...rn/page__st__60

* The interpretation is NOT from the book of Jeremiah.
* The "going forth of the word" is NOT from a man, but directly from GOD.
* The shibiym/shabuwa (plural/singular) is not the usual concise Feminine gender, but rather the inconcise Masculine gender.
* The seven and the sixty-two and NOT one number. If the AUTHOR had intended this as such, HE would have simply said ~sixty-nine~.
* There is an anointed one after the seven, and a second anointed one after the sixty-two.
* The term "after" is not immediately, but simply subsequent to.
* The destroyer comes after the seventieth shabuwa.


BibleScribe

 

[us2are1]

Well, for one, the 3.5 years of Daniel 12:7 is NOT about the time of Christ's Ministry. Nor is that period of Dan.7:25; Rev.11:2; Rev.12:6, nor Rev.12:14, nor Rev.13:5.

But... the Dan.9:27 "one week" separation with "the midst of the week" into two halves of 3.5 years IS about the Dan.12:1 & 7 Scripture; specifically the last half.

And I'm not specifically accusing you of anything except of being wrong.

The Three and a half years of Daniel 12-7 is the two witnesses (Two others) final ministry and the completion of the seventieth week that Christ begun before He was cut off in the midst of the week.

Daniel 9
24 "Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city, To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy, And to anoint the Most Holy. 25 "Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, <a name="d"> Even in troublesome times.

26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, (The Lord said exactly 1040 Days after He Came He was cut off) but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolation's are determined.
27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; (Christ has said It is His covenant of faith that has been confirmed by many and the Just shall live by faith) But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. (Christ has said that When He sends His two witnesses to begin their ministry they will take away his daily sacrifice to man by closing the heavens and drying up the earth to reveal those who live by faith) And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, (Christ has said that the desolate will begin to eat people for food and drink blood for water, in His name, instead of exercising faith in the Lord God almighty) Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate." (Christ has said that the Lake of fire from heaven will be poured down on their heads by His saints, Holy Messengers. at His return)

 

[tgwprophet]

Not only s the Temple built, but so too is the inner-sanctum built at the time of the Abomintion of Desolation. One of the events that validates the Anti-christ as being the messiah to the "world" is he changed during the 7 day period in the temple. The Antichrist with the wound is evicted from his body and it is overtaken and beautified by Satan himself. This explain why the Image of the Beast is needed and where the life of it comes from. I am not and do not pose to be a scholar of either the new or old testament. Yet I do have secrets it is not yet time for me to share. God Bless

 

[veteran]

The Three and a half years of Daniel 12-7 is the two witnesses (Two others) final ministry and the completion of the seventieth week that Christ begun before He was cut off in the midst of the week.

Who'd you get that idea from? Christ's crucifixion ended the 69th week. Had nothing to do with the final "one week" of Dan.9:27.


Dan 9:25-27
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

TWO separate periods mentioned in that 25th verse:
1. going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem = "seven weeks"
2. unto Messiah the Prince = "threescore and two weeks"

1st PERIOD: 454 B.C was when the command to restore Jerusalem went forth (20th year of Artaxerxes per Ussher's chronology). The restoration of the 2nd temple and Jerusalem was completed 49 years later in 405 B.C. The 1st period of "seven weeks" means a period of seven sevens, or 7 x 7, which equals 49.

2nd PERIOD: from the completion of the 2nd temple and Jerusalem in 405 B.C. to the time of 29 A.D. when Christ was 'cut off' at His crucifixion was sixty two weeks (or 62 sevens, or 434 years).

The Daniel 9:26 verse confirms the time of Christ being 'cut off' happening with the end of that 62nd week period...

Dan.9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

There's no Scripture justification to try and continue the time of Christ's crucifixion into the final one week (70th) that is left remaining still today.

 

[veteran]

Let's look at it again.

Dan.9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

The Dan.9:25 verses tells us the sixty two weeks is unto or until Messiah the Prince. It does not specify within what 'timeframe' of Christ's Ministry that is, like the start, middle, or end.

BUT, the Dan.9:26 verse DOES give us a specific timeframe in Christ's Ministry for the sixty two week period.

The end of the sixty two week period coincides with the time of Christ's crucifixion in 29 A.D., i.e., the time of His being 'cut off'.


Just so happens, that 29 A.D. date of Christ's crucifixion back to the 454 B.C. of the command to restore Jerusalem equals... EXACTLY the two periods of "seven weeks" (49 years) and "threescore and two weeks" (434 years) when added up. So the whole of the two periods of 49 years, and 434 years = 483 years. And from 454 B.C. to... 483 years later... is the date of 29 A.D., the time of Christ's crucifixion.

 

[veteran]

Now what would happen IF... we TRY to move... the time of Christ being 'cut off'... PAST... the end of the total sixty nine weeks?

In other words, the guess of 3.5 years of Christ's Ministry had to have happened WITHIN the 62nd week (or 69th week if you count the first seven weeks too). It had to, because the Dan.9:26 Scripture is clear that the 62 week period ended with the time of Christ's crucifixion, when He was 'cut off'.

So, if Christ's Ministry was 3.5 years as some suggest (not proven), and Christ's crucifixion was in the 'middle' of the 70th week, that creates a major problem. Why? Because His Ministry ended with His crucifixion! It would mean 3.5 years would still have been left after His crucifixion for His Ministry to fulfill the whole final "one week" (70th week) period.

But still, those arguments are overshadowed by the fact that even today, the events given in Dan.9:24 per the prophecy have yet to be fulfilled, with the anointing of the most Holy still not having yet happened.

Some scholars now say Christ was born at a later date than 4 B.C., more like 1 B.C. But that still doesn't change the accounting of the end of the 69th week with Christ's crucifixion per the Dan.9:26 verse.

 

[BibleScribe]

Let's look at it again.

Dan.9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Ummmmm, if there's a precedent for what your "version" presents, then certainly Newton wouldn't have said what he did:


We avoid also the doing violence to the language of Daniel, by taking the seven weeks and sixty two weeks for one number. Had that been Daniel's meaning, he would have said sixty and nine weeks, and not seven weeks and sixty two weeks, a way of numbring used by no nation.

http://www.newtonpro...lized/THEM00204



However, if you used a correct translation, you'd find the following correct text:


[sup]25[/sup] Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time.


But your objective is not the TRUTH.



BibleScribe






To All,

Please be aware the Scripture presents a duration of seven, after which is an anointed one (small "a"); and then a duration of sixty-two, after which is another anointed one (small "a"). And where false doctrines attempt to achieve a "Jesus" fulfillment for this 9th Chapter, neither Scripture nor history support such a premise:

In the book, “Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation,” John Walvoord writes regarding the interpretation of the seventy “weeks:”

“...Montgomery, for all of his scholarship and knowledge of the history of interpretation, ends up with no reasonable interpretation at all.”[1]

​

“...as Young points out, the word ‘sevens’ is in the masculine plural instead of the usual feminine plural. No clear explanation is given except that Young feels ‘it was for the deliberate purpose of calling attention to the fact that the word “sevens” is employed in an unusual sense.’”[2]

​

“...Young finally concludes after some discussion that Keil and Kliefoth are correct when they hold that the word ‘sevens’ does not necessarily mean year-weeks, but an intentionally indefinite designation of a period of time measured by the number seven, which chronological duration must be determined on other grounds.”[3]


​

[1] John Walvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217​

[2] IBID, p. 217​

[3] IBID, p. 218




Beware of false teachings.

BibleScribe
​

 

[tgwprophet]

BibleScribe wrote:
"When Daniel 9 is presented in the full TRUTH of Scripture, "veteran" cannot defend his false doctrine."

Lets understand alll forums are for teaching and for learning by both the teacher and the student. I understand the conviction one has when they firmly believe they have the answers, but as the seals are opened and more understanding prevails. In conclusion each step will reveal more clarity then one possessed prior to that step. God is a teacher Jesus a teacher, the rest of us are but students, students helping students through sharing our understanding in agreements and debates.

As Moses spent 40 years wanderng, Job spent 40 years wondering surely Revelation could have been a generation then Tribulations yet another generation (40 years) an cut down to merely 7 years and thus still fulfilling scripture. Of course a generation does not need to be 40 years but could be a generation as the length of time of a present day geneation.

If I understand you correctly; According to your understanding Tribulation begins, as scripture tells us, with the setting of the stone for the temple then you must have it figured that it is when Satan is cast unto the earth... then 42 months he enters the inner-sanctum of the temple thus committing the abomination of desolation and Armageddon happens at the same time as well - (to the day). This means the temple is never cleansed of the filth of the Abomination of Desolation before Jesus comes. And then it also must be that the 2 witnesses must have started before Tribulations. Also, it talks of a blessing to those that are around after the Abomination of Desolation - Dan 12:!2. Consider that blessing is for the Jews, the Christainsleft behind, and for those who curse God (this is the only "written" account of God doing or being able to do what he asks of us... Bless those who curse us - a proof of his devine mercy)These are only some of the events you must put happpening all at the same time, and so, I believe you have way too many events occurring simutaniously for it to be possibe. I will be re-researching and forwarding more information as to why the Great Tribulation is a period of 7 years,,, as I understand it. God bless BibleScribe.

 

[BibleScribe]

...
If I understand you correctly; According to your understanding Tribulation begins, as scripture tells us, with the setting of the stone for the temple then you must have it figured that it is when Satan is cast unto the earth...

Hi Terry,

I don't believe I've espoused anything except that the Daniel 9 seven is one duration with an anointed one (small "a"), and the sixty-two is a second duration with a second anointed one (small "a"). Thus either Jesus had an younger/older brother, who was the first/second anointed one, -- or this Chapter has nothing to do with the Christ.

Furthermore, Daniel 12:4 & 12:9 both define these prophecies are preserved for the end time (~1948). So where the text was written ~530 B.C., the false teachers insist a ~483 B.C. interpretation. Wow, -- they waited a whole ~50 years before unsealing that prophecy, when in fact the ink was barely dry.


So to address the tribulation duration, Daniel's seventieth week is already fulfilled. (I'm happy to provide that presentation and defense.) However, Revelation 13:5 should provide the timeline you seek.



BibleScribe

 

[us2are1]

Who'd you get that idea from? Christ's crucifixion ended the 69th week. Had nothing to do with the final "one week" of Dan.9:27.



There's no Scripture justification to try and continue the time of Christ's crucifixion into the final one week (70th) that is left remaining still today.

Pay attention this time and listen to what is being said and you will understand where I got that Idea from.

26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, (The Lord said exactly 1040 Days after the sixty two weeks He was cut off) but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolation's are determined.
27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; (Christ has said It is His covenant of faith that has been confirmed by many and the Just shall live by faith) But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. (Christ has said that When He sends His two witnesses to begin their ministry they will take away his daily sacrifice to man by closing the heavens and drying up the earth to reveal those who live by faith) And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, (Christ has said that the desolate will begin to eat people for food and drink blood for water, in His name, instead of exercising faith in the Lord God almighty) Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate." (Christ has said that the Lake of fire from heaven will be poured down on their heads by His saints, Holy Messengers. at His return)
26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, (The Lord said exactly 1040 Days after He Came He was cut off)

 

[BibleScribe]

Per Montgomery:

The history of the exegesis of the 70 Weeks is the Dismal Swamp of O. T. criticism. The difficulties that beset any "rationalistic" treatment of the figures are great enough, but the critics on this side of the fence do not agree among themselves; but the trackless wilderness of assumptions and theories and efforts to obtain an exact chronology fitting into the the history of Salvation, after these 2,000 years of infinitely varied interpretations, would seem to preclude any use of the 70 Weeks for the determination of a definite prophetic chronology. ... "

John Wolvoord, "Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation", Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217



-- Yet people keep trying to connive an ancient fulfillment. --


BibleScribe

 

[us2are1]

Per Montgomery:

The history of the exegesis of the 70 Weeks is the Dismal Swamp of O. T. criticism. The difficulties that beset any "rationalistic" treatment of the figures are great enough, but the critics on this side of the fence do not agree among themselves; but the trackless wilderness of assumptions and theories and efforts to obtain an exact chronology fitting into the the history of Salvation, after these 2,000 years of infinitely varied interpretations, would seem to preclude any use of the 70 Weeks for the determination of a definite prophetic chronology. ... "

John Wolvoord, "Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation", Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217



-- Yet people keep trying to connive an ancient fulfillment. --


BibleScribe

Likewise the spirit of vanity and disbelief is always there. Ever present to attempt to make light of the truth and annul the inevitable. See if your skepticism can stop the word of God from coming to pass.

 

[BibleScribe]

To All,

I am more than willing to both present and defend the merits of Scripture, as repeatedly presented in this forum:



Ref: "Rome's 7 of 10 Hills", page 5, Post #132, http://www.christian...hibiym__st__120

1. Daniel 9:2 specifies "years". -- This is a clue.

2. Daniel 9:2 does not use the simple shama to perceive the prophecy of Jeremiah as though reading that book, but rather the Soloman biyn to perceive the prophecy in the BOOKS.-- This is another clue.

3. Daniel 9:25 "going forth of the word" does NOT have the inference of any edict from man, but rather and edict directly from GOD. -- This is another clue.

4. The Daniel 9:25 seven is one duration with an anointed one "coming" after that duration. -- And another clue.

5. The Daniel 9:25 - 26 sixty-two weeks is a second duration with a second anointed one who is cut off after that duration. -- Still another clue.

6. The "weeks"/"week" are the inconcise Masculine gender text, which are specifically NOT 490 years. -- And yet another clues.

7. The second anointed one who is cut off is not killed upon the sixty-two, but simply AFTER. -- The clues keep on coming.

8. The destroyer does not come at the beginning, middle, or upon the end of the seventieth shabuwa, but "shall come" after the seventieth shabuwa. -- You can't handle these clues.

9. The seven, the sixty-two, the seventieth, and after the seventieth are chronologically connected, with NO ~2,000 year gaps. -- And still more clues.

10. This prophecy is shut up and sealed until the time of the end, which is approximate to 1948. -- The final clue which I've identified.





Unfortunately, instead of evaluating the text, some individuals wish to divert your attention from the TRUTH of Scripture, by posting personal accusations. And where satan is the chief accuser, we can form a conclusion from the post above. But equally, we are not left without the Holy Spirit which leads us into all TRUTHS, -- if we simply present the evidence to HIM.




BibleScribe

 

[veteran]

If I understand you correctly; According to your understanding Tribulation begins, as scripture tells us, with the setting of the stone for the temple then you must have it figured that it is when Satan is cast unto the earth... then 42 months he enters the inner-sanctum of the temple thus committing the abomination of desolation and Armageddon happens at the same time as well - (to the day).

No, that is not my understanding of the events and timing. The Dan.9:27 "one week" events involve a period of 7 years per what the 'weeks' represent. Thus the whole 70 weeks represent a period of 490 years. They are given in 3 specific periods, with the last period representing "one week" (7 years). So all... of those 'weeks' must be accounted for.

We do not know for 'certain' when the cornerstone of the new temple will be laid, but, the Scripture suggests it will be done prior to the false messiah coming to setup the abomination of desolation, for sacrifices must be going on also for his coming to end them in the middle of the "one week" period.

The whole "one week" period is known as the tribulation. Christ pointed to 2 entities in Matt.24:24, a pseudochristos (pseudo Christ) and a pseudoprophetes (false prophet). I suspect the 'false prophet' will be here at the START of the "one week" (7 years), and it is he that will make the "league" of Daniel 11. I suspect that "league" for the whole "one week" period is what will allow the building of another temple, and the start of up of OT sacrifices again.

And then, in the middle of the "one week", the pseudochristos (pseudo Christ) will appear, and end the sacrifices, and place the abomination idol that makes the temple desolate. That begins the 42 months of Rev.13:5 and Rev.11:2. That's when the 'image of the beast' of Rev.13 is setup for all the world to worship, and that those who refuse to bow should be killed. That's when the real persecutions upon Christ's servants begins, when that idol abomination is setup for false worship. The golden image of Nebuchadnezzar is the pattern. Daniel and his fellows dwelt in relative safety until that idol image was setup requiring all to bow in worship to it. That's the specific time that Christ said He shortened, for the sake of His elect servants.

It will be during that 3.5 years, or 1260 days, or 42 months period, when some of the saints will be delivered up to given a Testimony for Christ. It's also the time of God's two witnesses appearing on earth in Jerusalem, where that idol abomination will be setup in false worship.

Then an event is to occur that will strike a blow to false messiah's working of deception. Most likely towards the end of that 42 months period. Daniel was put under care of servants of Babylon to prepare him to be presented to the king of Babylon after 3 years. 42 months = 3.5 years, so the last 0.5 remaining... deliverance time.

That will involve an event that will infuriate the pseudo messiah to think to destroy in final all of God's people off the face of this earth. And that's... when the battle of Armageddon will occur, on the last day of this present world, with Christ and His army coming to fight it for us. That's the brightness of Christ's coming Paul spoke of in 2 Thess.2 to destroy that Wicked one.

Summary:
1. "league" made for the total "one week" period in Jerusalem by the pseudoprophetes (false prophet of Matt.24:24)
2. temple being allowed to be built; sacrifices start up again
3. in the "midst of the week" the pseudochristos (pseudo Christ) appears, ends the sacrifices, and places the abomination idol that makes the temple desolate
4. image of the beast setup in false worship involving that "abomination of desolation" idol; some of the saints delivered up to councils and synagogues to give a Testimony for Christ
5. the pseudochristos is riled, and sends armies out of the northern quarters upon God's people to try and destroy them all
6. Christ returns with His army at Armageddon to end this present world on "the day of The Lord"

That's the same things I showed in my post #242 above.

Pay attention this time and listen to what is being said and you will understand where I got that Idea from.

26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, (The Lord said exactly 1040 Days after the sixty two weeks He was cut off) but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolation's are determined.
27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; (Christ has said It is His covenant of faith that has been confirmed by many and the Just shall live by faith) But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. (Christ has said that When He sends His two witnesses to begin their ministry they will take away his daily sacrifice to man by closing the heavens and drying up the earth to reveal those who live by faith) And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, (Christ has said that the desolate will begin to eat people for food and drink blood for water, in His name, instead of exercising faith in the Lord God almighty) Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate." (Christ has said that the Lake of fire from heaven will be poured down on their heads by His saints, Holy Messengers. at His return)
26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, (The Lord said exactly 1040 Days after He Came He was cut off)

Our Lord Jesus Christ did NOT confirm ANY covenant with anyone for a period of "one week" (7 years).

NOR did He 'break' or 'end' any covenant for a period of 7 years.

Christ Jesus did not come at His first coming to confirm the Old Covenant, period. He came to do AWAY with the Old Covenant instead, and offer THE NEW COVENANT BY HIS BLOOD SHED UPON THE CROSS.

There is NO 1040 days period given in that Daniel 9:27 verse!

Your ideas in that are WACKO!

 

[BibleScribe]

No, that is not my understanding of the events and timing. The Dan.9:27 "one week" events involve a period of 7 years ... Thus the whole 70 weeks represent a period of 490 years....

Certainly this would be NEWS to the scholars. In fact, this would be NEWS to GOD! :lol:

In the book, “Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation,” John Walvoord writes regarding the interpretation of the seventy “weeks:”


​

“...Montgomery, for all of his scholarship and knowledge of the history of interpretation, ends up with no reasonable interpretation at all.”​

“...as Young points out, the word ‘sevens’ is in the masculine plural instead of the usual feminine plural. No clear explanation is given except that Young feels ‘it was for the deliberate purpose of calling attention to the fact that the word “sevens” is employed in an unusual sense.’”​

“...Young finally concludes after some discussion that Keit and Kliefoth are correct when they hold that the word ‘sevens’ does not necessarily mean year-weeks, but an intentionally indefinite designation of a period of time measured by the number seven, which chronological duration must be determined on other grounds.”​

This discussion revolves around the feminine gender word “sheba” (seven, seven times, seventh), versus the Masculine gender word “shibiym” – in plural; and “shabuwa” – in singular. (seven, seven times). Whereas the Feminine “sheba” is exactly seven days, Daniel chose to use the Masculine “shibiym” / “shabuwa” which is a less concise or “indefinite” period of time, found only five times in the Bible, in these 24th-27th verses of this ninth chapter. (Please note that in the 10th Chapter, the Feminine text is used.)

If Daniel’s use of “shibiym” indefinite periods of time were to be interpreted in the prevalent chronology for a given era, typical modern chronology would dictate that period of time as a year. However, another period of time which could be designated by that term could be a "Peace Accord" which lasts one true “week” (seven years).

However, in light of clues deliberately employed by Daniel, classic commentators, including John Walvoord, interpret the seventy “shibah” as four hundred and ninety years, clearly defying both the historical record per Montgomery, and biblical clues per Young, Keit, and Kliefoth.


​

John Wolvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217​

IBID, p. 217​

IBID, p. 218​

Young,, Robert, Analytical Concordance to the Bible, Eerdmans Publishing Co., Grand Rapids, MI, 1976, pp. 45-46




Maybe you should notify this greater audience of your "discovery".

BibleScribe​

 

[us2are1]

Our Lord Jesus Christ did NOT confirm ANY covenant with anyone for a period of "one week" (7 years).

NOR did He 'break' or 'end' any covenant for a period of 7 years.

Christ Jesus did not come at His first coming to confirm the Old Covenant, period. He came to do AWAY with the Old Covenant instead, and offer THE NEW COVENANT BY HIS BLOOD SHED UPON THE CROSS.

There is NO 1040 days period given in that Daniel 9:27 verse!

Your ideas in that are WACKO!

You are still not listening. Why can't you understand my speech? Lets try it again.

Christ brought the new covenant. His ministry was 1040 days long. His two witnesses will continue the second half of that covenant 1260 days by taking away Gods sacrifice to man . The whole supply of bread and the whole supply of water. Then those who truly believe and the just who walk in faith. The true sons of God will be revealed.

Daniel 8
13 Then I heard a holy one speaking; and another holy one said to that certain one who was speaking, "How long will the vision be, concerning the daily sacrifices and the transgression of desolation, the giving of both the sanctuary and the host to be trampled under foot?" 14 And he said to me, "For two thousand three hundred days; then the sanctuary shall be cleansed."

Romans 8
19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.

Galatians 3
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Romans 8
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

 

[tgwprophet]

iF I understand these certain posts correctly te claim is the anti-christ confirms the covenant for one week (7 years) and mid-point of that (3 1/2 years) stops the Daily Sacrifice. I have issue with this as, yes, the Covenant is confirmed mid point of Tribulations but that one week is speaks of is DAYS. The covenant was made 30 days prior to the start of Tibulations and like confirming a reservation... the covenant is confirmed AFTER it was established. If you claim it is Confirmed for oe week - as in 7 years.. mid point of tribulatios then Armageddon cannot occur for another 7 years meaning tribulations lasts 10 1/2 years. When one considers that reference to a week is a literal 7 days tat the anti-chirst spends at the temple.. then Armageddon can still occur 42 months later. just a thougt...

OK, due to some cirumstances (as well as my understanding to be patient), it has been a long time (years - nearly 2 decades) since i have committed myself to indulge in research other than the... well... lax ways I have been involved, (while allowing others to influence my understanding - not a bad thing to be a sponge someimes). I do believe I have now found a forum that can assist in a greater understanding than ever before so, I believe re-evaluation is beneficial.

 

[veteran]

You are still not listening. Why can't you understand my speech? Lets try it again.

Christ brought the new covenant. His ministry was 1040 days long. His two witnesses will continue the second half of that covenant 1260 days by taking away Gods sacrifice to man . The whole supply of bread and the whole supply of water. Then those who truly believe and the just who walk in faith. The true sons of God will be revealed.

Daniel 8
13 Then I heard a holy one speaking; and another holy one said to that certain one who was speaking, "How long will the vision be, concerning the daily sacrifices and the transgression of desolation, the giving of both the sanctuary and the host to be trampled under foot?" 14 And he said to me, "For two thousand three hundred days; then the sanctuary shall be cleansed."

Romans 8
19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.

Galatians 3
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Romans 8
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

That's applying the 70 weeks prophecy totally... outside the context of Scripture of how it is given. The Dan.9:24-27 prophecy involves the Dan.11 chapter specifically also, and the Dan.12 chapter. And then it ties to Christ's Revelation about the final beast kingdom.

With the ending of the 69th symbolic week of Daniel 9:26, Christ was "cut off", meaning He had nothing more to do with Jerusalem since.

But what you're trying to do, is to push Christ's Ministry farther than it existed, into... the final 70th "one week" of Dan.9:27, and that is a false doctrine of men.

iF I understand these certain posts correctly te claim is the anti-christ confirms the covenant for one week (7 years) and mid-point of that (3 1/2 years) stops the Daily Sacrifice. I have issue with this as, yes, the Covenant is confirmed mid point of Tribulations but that one week is speaks of is DAYS. The covenant was made 30 days prior to the start of Tibulations and like confirming a reservation... the covenant is confirmed AFTER it was established. If you claim it is Confirmed for oe week - as in 7 years.. mid point of tribulatios then Armageddon cannot occur for another 7 years meaning tribulations lasts 10 1/2 years. When one considers that reference to a week is a literal 7 days tat the anti-chirst spends at the temple.. then Armageddon can still occur 42 months later. just a thougt...

OK, due to some cirumstances (as well as my understanding to be patient), it has been a long time (years - nearly 2 decades) since i have committed myself to indulge in research other than the... well... lax ways I have been involved, (while allowing others to influence my understanding - not a bad thing to be a sponge someimes). I do believe I have now found a forum that can assist in a greater understanding than ever before so, I believe re-evaluation is beneficial.

Don't know what Bible you're pulling from, but the KJV Bible I use doesn't mention Christ Jesus confirming ANY covenant for a period of 30 days, nor 3.5 years, nor 1260 days.


Dan 11:21-23
21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.
23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.
(KJV)

That "vile person" is this one here...

Dan 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
(KJV)

Only an antichrist would try to say that "he" of that Dan.9:27 verse is Christ Jesus. Know why? Because that same one is to do that "overspreading of abominations", which is about placing the abomination idol that makes desolate, the very "abomination of desolation" that Christ Himself warned about in Matt.24 and Mark 13.