How can anyone fall for the errors of Calvinism ?

[Behold]

Just to clarify members, I have never read a book of Calvin in my life.

But you have read posts and Threads, that are on a fake christian forum that is dedicated to Calvin?

Or were you there, but never read anything?

I have recently been looking his teachings up online.

You have read a lot of what BRIGHTFRAME teaches here....and all these other Calvinists, and Hyper Calvinists.
Thread after Thread.. Post after Post.

You've had quite an education in Demonic Calvinism and Hyper-C, just by being on 2 forums.

 

[Ritajanice]

I post what I believe to be the word of God, if Calvin’s teachings line up with Gods word...then I agree with that teaching.

Because it lines up with Gods word, not because I’m a Calvinist...I’m a Born Again child of God, Born Of The Spirit, 33 yrs ago...The Spirit has taught me everything I know / understand..Only by His Spirit am I led...

Self appointed prophets..I have the gift of discernment, to heed them not.for they speak of their own accord....I only know the voice of my master Jesus..

All that happens, God allows or wills, for the greater good , everything is all in accordance with his plan.

Ephesians 1 ►

Berean Standard Bible Par ▾ Paul’s Greeting to the Ephesians (Acts 19:8–12; Revelation 2:1–7) 1Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints in Ephesus,a the faithful in Christ Jesus: 2Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Spiritual Blessings (Romans 8:28–34) 3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms. 4For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love 5He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6to the praise of His glorious grace, which He has freely given us in the Beloved One. 7In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8that He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9And He has made known to us the mystery of His will according to His good pleasure, which He purposed in Christ 10as a plan for the fullness of time, to bring all things in heaven and on earth together in Christ. 11In Him we were also chosen as God’s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything by the counsel of His will, 12in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, would be for the praise of His glory. 13And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth—the gospel of your salvation—you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is the pledge of our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession, to the praise of His glory. Spiritual Wisdom (1 Corinthians 2:6–16) 15For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, 16I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, 17that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in your knowledge of Him. 18I ask that the eyes of your heartb may be enlightened, so that you may know the hope of His calling, the riches of His glorious inheritance in the saints, 19and the surpassing greatness of His power to us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of His mighty strength, 20which He exerted in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly realms, 21far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22And God put everything under His feet and made Him head over everything for the church, 23which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

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◄ John 7:18 ►

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Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version Whoever speaks on their own does so to gain personal glory, but he who seeks the glory of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him. New Living Translation Those who speak for themselves want glory only for themselves, but a person who seeks to honor the one who sent him speaks truth, not lies. English Standard Version The one who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory; but the one who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and in him there is no falsehood. Berean Standard Bible He who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory, but He who seeks the glory of the One who sent Him is a man of truth; in Him there is no falsehood.

 

[GodsGrace]

God says that in other places too . WHY will ye die
I DESIRE NOT the death of the WICKED but rather he repent .
GOD actaully does love the world and its why HE DID SEND the SON
so that all who do BELIEVE
so that all who do BELEIVE
So that all who do Beleive
okay its not a skip in the record . allow me to finish it . SO THAT ALL WHO DO BELIEVE IN HIM
would not perish . GOD predetermined HOW to save the world . BY THE VERY CHRIST HE would send
so that all who do BELIEVE would be saved and not perish .
Cause That is HOW GOD chose to save the world . BY the preaching of the gospel , which to many seem as foolishness
but to us who are saved , IT IS THE POWER OF GOD which do save .
I shun intefaith to hades and all its doctrine . Many will soon beleive the lie and from whence they shall all be damned .
HE who rejected the love of the truth whereby they could be saved , THAT BE THE GOSPEL OF JESUS THE CHRIST ,
Will God send strong delusion to believe a lie and to be damned .
AND THOUGH HE DESIRES not the death of any , DAMNED they all will be who rejected JESUS AS THE CHRIST .

Well Amigo...everything you've stated is NOT calvinistic....
What I'd say is that we should be careful not to encourage those that believe in teachings of a man instead of the teachings of Jesus.
Calvin was a man.. He got his ideas from a person born in the 5th century that was a gnostic Manechaen and then converted to the Catholic faith and brought his gnostics ideas along with him.

God love the world.
God wishes to save everyone...
But they must adhere to HIS WAYS and HIS TEACHINGS.
They are plainly taught in the NT.
It's up to us to make sure that we understand them.
We could disagree on some doctrine or other...
BUT WE CANNOT DISAGREE ON THE NATURE AND CHARACTER OF GOD.
§Calvinism changes the nature and the character of God.

 

[GodsGrace]

I post what I believe to be the word of God, if Calvin’s teachings line up with Gods word...then I agree with that teaching.

Let's make this very clear Ritajanice:

God's Word CANNOT line up with Calvin's teachings.
This is because Calvin taught heresy.
Find out what heresy means.....it may not even mean what you think it means.

If you haven't read Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion (4 volumes) well, maybe you should.
The more you read, the more you WILL be horrified,
that is
IF
You truly believe you know Jesus in your spirit.

IF you think you know Jesus
and
You can agree with Calvin...

well, something here does not jive.
God's word DOES NOT align with John Calvin's teachings.

So, please stop saying that if you post what Calvin believed then so be it because YOU THINK it's God word.
NO,,,IT IS NOT GOD'S WORD.

And God will thank you if you stop repeating this.

Because it lines up with Gods word, not because I’m a Calvinist...I’m a Born Again child of God, Born Of The Spirit, 33 yrs ago...The Spirit has taught me everything I know / understand..Only by His Spirit am I led...

The Holy Spirit WILL NOT teach you anything that is taught by Calvinists.

If you REALLY don't know about the reformed faith---which I think you really do---
then find out and at least define yourself by what you believe.

And being born again will not do it.
Your DOCTRINAL beliefs will define your denomination.

IF you deny being Calvinist....it means you're ashamed of it.
Why believe doctrine you're ashamed of??

 

[Ritajanice]

A Tree and Its Fruit
(Luke 6:43–45)

15Beware of false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20So then, by their fruit you will recognize them.

21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’

23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’

 

[Ritajanice]

Let's make this very clear Ritajanice:

God's Word CANNOT line up with Calvin's teachings.
This is because Calvin taught heresy.
Find out what heresy means.....it may not even mean what you think it means.

If you haven't read Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion (4 volumes) well, maybe you should.
The more you read, the more you WILL be horrified,
that is
IF
You truly believe you know Jesus in your spirit.

IF you think you know Jesus
and
You can agree with Calvin...

well, something here does not jive.
God's word DOES NOT align with John Calvin's teachings.

So, please stop saying that if you post what Calvin believed then so be it because YOU THINK it's God word.
NO,,,IT IS NOT GOD'S WORD.

And God will thank you if you stop repeating this.


The Holy Spirit WILL NOT teach you anything that is taught by Calvinists.

If you REALLY don't know about the reformed faith---which I think you really do---
then find out and at least define yourself by what you believe.

And being born again will not do it.
Your DOCTRINAL beliefs will define your denomination.

IF you deny being Calvinist....it means you're ashamed of it.
Why believe doctrine you're ashamed of??

Thank you once again very much for voicing your well thought out opinion.

21 As charcoal to hot embers and wood to fire, so is a quarrelsome man for kindling strife. 21 A quarrelsome person starts fights as easily as hot embers light charcoal or fire lights wood. 21 A quarrelsome person in a dispute is like kerosene thrown on a fire.

 

[GodsGrace]

Dear @GodsGrace ..May you know the Love Of God, deep within your heart/ spirit...in Jesus Name..Amen!.

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Which love of God would that be??
The love of a God that sits down and chooses -based on NOTHING -
who will go to heaven and who will go to hell?

No thank you.
I don't care to know that God,. since He would be a loveless God.

 

[Ritajanice]

100 Bible Verses about Total Depravity

• 1 Corinthians 2:14 KJV. ...
• 1 John 2:2 KJV. ...
• 1 John 1:8 KJV. ...
• 2 Corinthians 4:6 KJV. ...
• 1 Corinthians 1:18 KJV. ...
• 1 John 1:8-10 KJV. ...
• 1 Kings 8:46 KJV. ...
• 1 Corinthians 2:12 KJV.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Pretty funny.....
God is ONE BEING....
IF He were 3 beings, it means there would be 3 Gods.

I would say that you meant 3 PERSONS.
And people are not TRI-MODALISTS.
They are just MODALISTS....if that's what they believe.

I wonder if you also take this type of understanding also to the bible......
I've always wondered how anybody could believe the reformed faith.
Guess it might be because the NT is not understood....

So do you believe that Father, son and Spirit are just different appearances of one entity or person? I want to make sure I do not misunderstand you.

do you believe teh Father isa different "person" than the son who is a different person than the Spirit yet they are all God? What is called the Trinity.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The above is not for me...but:
I don't believe anyone here hates any person.
I do believe we hate a belief system that belittles God....
understands Him to be a robot builder....
and believes He doesn't love His most important creation....us.
It's also rather disconcerting to see how plain biblical verses are misunderstood due to a skewered belief of both God's nature
and biblical teachings.

Well that is the bible.

The passage "fiited for destruction is the perfect passive paticiple which means those going to hell were made fit for hell by God!

That is what teh passive voice means- someone else does the work, in this case fitting people for destruction.

that is the bible.

 

[Ritajanice]

Short commentary.

Total Depravity is the Biblical teaching that human beings since the Fall have inherited both the guilt and sin nature of Adam in such a way that absolutely everything about them is affected by sin. This does not mean every person is as sinful as they could possibly be.

 

[GodsGrace]

Just to clarify members, I have never read a book of Calvin in my life.

I have recently been looking his teachings up online.

Quite a few of his tulip points..are in line with the word of God.

I..is one that lines up well with the word.

I also agree, that everything I went through in my life, was of God..100%.

He’s in control 100%

I is for irresistible grace.
This means that you cannot say no to God.
This means that you have no free will.
This means that God chooses some persons to go to heaven and chooses some persons to go to hell.
If you believe man has no free will --- you are a Calvinist.


Could you please explain the following verse to me?
If you need THE ENTIRE PARAGRAPH, which I notice you like to do,,,you can go ahead and explain the entire paragraph since it will align with the teachings of Jesus.

John 3:16
16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

What does the above mean?
Does it mean that a person could CHOOSE God or does it mean that a person CANNOT choose God?
Does it sound like man has free will or does NOT have free will?


What does this mean:
Deuteronomy 30:17-19
17“But if your heart turns away and you will not obey, but are drawn away and worship other gods and serve them,
18I declare to you today that you shall surely perish. You will not prolong your days in the land where you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess it.
19“I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,

God is giving the Israelites the choice between obeying Him and not obeying HIm.
The choice between life and death.
God is telling them TO CHOOSE.

Does choosing mean that you have free will
or does it mean that you do not have free will?

 

[Ritajanice]

The passage "fiited for destruction is the perfect passive paticiple which means those going to hell were made fit for hell by God!

Hi Ronald..God knows beginning to end, therefore these vessels of wrath are of their own doing?

God could see what monsters they are from beginning to the end of their lives, is that why they are destined to hell?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The Cross denies your Calvinism, but Satan , who wrote your Theology using John Calvin, appreciates your obedience for 30+ yrs.

Calvin is a Devil., and He creates Disciples, who teach his "doctrine of Devils".

Once again empty rhetoric with no validation.

But as you say knowing the Greek is unimportant (another area you are benighted in), let me do a bible study for you from the inspired writer Paul who wrote in Koine Greek!

2 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Let us look at verse 23 first. the verb "afore prepared" is in the aorist active indicative Which means God HImself was the one who prepared the vessels of mercy.

Now Verse 22: the verb ":fitted" that verb is the perfect passive participle. Which means someone fitted them for destruction other than themselves. Also they were prepared, are being prepared and will continue to be prepared!

Romans 9:14-24

King James Version

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14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

I know you won't answer what god says here. If I had such a heart so arrogant and filled with teh hate you display, I would not want to try to even acknowledge these verses even exist in the Inspired Word of God! For these condemn your entire bulwark of falsehoods and bitterness.

 

[Behold]

Only by His Spirit am I led...

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The Holy Spirit is not a Calvinist.
The Holy Spirit does not teach Calvinism.
The Holy Spirit will never lead anyone to believe or teach Calvin's "doctrine of Devils"., as The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth, and John Calvinism, is a Heresy of Lies.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Hi Ronald..God knows beginning to end, therefore these vessels of wrath are of their own doing?

God could see what monsters they are from beginning to the end of their lives, is that why they are destined to hell?

Actually that is not what the passage says. It say they were made fit for destruction. the passive voice in Greek means that someone actas on the subject .

In this case someone acts on the last to make them lost!

Remember every one is an object of wrath by nature. No one has to do anything at all to go to hell. All of mankind by default go there. Unless God intervenes on an individuals life.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The Holy Spirit is not a Calvinist.
The Holy Spirit does not teach Calvinism.
The Holy Spirit will never lead anyone to believe or teach Calvin's "doctrine of Devils"., as The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth, and John Calvinism, is a Heresy of Lies.

And yet you cannot and will not show from SCripture why TULIP is a "doctrine of devils as you falsely accuse.

COWARD!

 

[GodsGrace]

Well that is the bible.

The passage "fiited for destruction is the perfect passive paticiple which means those going to hell were made fit for hell by God!

That is what teh passive voice means- someone else does the work, in this case fitting people for destruction.

that is the bible.

Read Exodus 30 RN.
The above is referring to the Israelite.
Or you could read my post no. 388.
Or you could read the following which is copied and pasted.
It really does get tiring with those that ignorantly try to use Romans 9 to support their Calvinist views.

********************************************************************************

Here is my post no. 388 to another member: (Scott Downey)

I agree that, except for passages that are directly spoken to the Apostles, all of the NT if for all persons....
But Romans 9 was written specifically for Paul's Jewish brethren. He is specifically addressing the concern he has for why his Jewish brothers are unable to accept Jesus as the Messiah.
Paul is NOT using Romans 9 to explain the calling of God to each person individually, but to explain why He chose Israel to reveal Himself and also why faith in Jesus is offered to all peoples ....even the gentiles, which Paul also referred to as the great mystery which has now been revealed ...
Colossians 1:25-29
25Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God,
26that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints,
27to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
28We proclaim Him, admonishing every man and teaching every man with all wisdom, so that we may present every man complete in Christ.
29For this purpose also I labor, striving according to His power, which mightily works within me.

And please notice verse 28: Paul admonishes EVERY man and teaches EVERY man......
The gospel is for every man SC......God wishes that all men be saved.
1 Timothy 2:4


I'll also say that in Romans 9:2 Paul expresses great sorrow and anguish for his fellow Jews whom he feels are not accepting of Jesus and thus saved.... Is it possible that Paul loves man more than God does...who created man?? I don't think so.
He states that to THEM belongs the SONSHIP, the GLORY, the COVENANTS, the LAW, the WORSHIP and the PROMISES that were made in the OT.
Paul is showing how the OT always had in mind the inclusion of the Gentiles......Abraham...the father of all nations.

It's important to have an overview of these 3 chapters because it's the only way to understand each individual verse that you're probably going to choose to discuss.

Romans 9

22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Romans 9:22-24
God wanted to show His wrath.
Yes. To who?

Paul is referring to the OT in these 3 chapters.
In Romans 9:22 Paul is referring to the wrath of God because, indeed, God show wrath for some...

God showed wrath toward those that had built the golden calf.
God showed mercy on them - longsuffering - these vessels of wrath when He heeded Moses in
Exodus 32:7-14
7Then the LORD spoke to Moses, “Go down at once, for your people, whom you brought up from the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves.
8“They have quickly turned aside from the way which I commanded them. They have made for themselves a molten calf, and have worshiped it and have sacrificed to it and said, ‘This is your god, O Israel, who brought you up from the land of Egypt!’”
9The LORD said to Moses, “I have seen this people, and behold, they are an obstinate people.
10“Now then let Me alone, that My anger may burn against them and that I may destroy them; and I will make of you a great nation.”
Moses’ Entreaty

11Then Moses entreated the LORD his God, and said, “O LORD, why does Your anger burn against Your people whom You have brought out from the land of Egypt with great power and with a mighty hand?
12“Why should the Egyptians speak, saying, ‘With evil intent He brought them out to kill them in the mountains and to destroy them from the face of the earth’? Turn from Your burning anger and change Your mind about doing harm to Your people.
13“Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, Your servants to whom You swore by Yourself, and said to them, ‘I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heavens, and all this land of which I have spoken I will give to your descendants, and they shall inherit it forever.’”
14So the LORD changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people.


Notice that God "changed His mind" about doing harm to the people that had built the gc.
This is how much God loves His creation,,,that He's willing to always give a second chance.

In this same way God shows His mercy to ALL who will accept Him....
Because it's God's desire that all men come to salvation.
Today, in the NC,,,this is accomplished through Jesus Christ.

Romans 9, all peoples. gentiles. as in v25-26 versus Jews in 27-29

25 As He says also in Hosea:

“I will call them My people, who were not My people,
And her beloved, who was not beloved.”
26 “And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them,
‘You are not My people,’
There they shall be called sons of the living God.”

27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel:

“Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea,
The remnant will be saved.
28 For [b]He will finish the work and cut it short in righteousness,
Because the Lord will make a short work upon the earth.”
29 And as Isaiah said before:

“Unless the Lord of [c]Sabaoth had left us a seed,
We would have become like Sodom,
And we would have been made like Gomorrah.”
Click to expand...

Well Scott, thanks for doing my work for me!
Indeed all of the above is referring to ISRAEL and not to individuals...
which is my point and which is accepted also by Christian theologians that are not of the reformed persuasion.

Romans 9 is discussing the state of ISRAEL...
it's discussing salvation that was given through Israel...through the revelation of God for salvation to all...
first through the Law, which could not be kept because the Holy Spirit was not yet available...
then through Christ, who made the Holy Spirit available to all who would accept Him.

Present Condition of Israel​

30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law [d]of righteousness. 32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, [e]by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. 33 As it is written:

Amen!
Look at verse 32:
BECAUSE THEY DID NOT SEEK IT BY FAITH....

We are indeed saved by faith in God/Jesus.
As Ephesians clearly states ,,, we are saved by faith.
NOT because God chose some before the foundation of the world.
(and sent everyone else to hell for no reason).

Faith, a gift from God for whoever will want to accept it.
Gifts, after all, do require acceptance.
If you never open the gift you've been given,,,,
you will never have it.

“Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense,
And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”

verse 33, includes everyone.

verse 30 forward, a summing up of Romans 9

Correct again.
Verse 33 includes EVERYONE.
"AND WHOEVER BELIEVES ON HIM WILL NOT BE PUT TO SHAME".
whoever believes
whoever


So what are we debating here SD?
Looks like we agree and I'm not reformed.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Read Exodus 30 RN.
The above is referring to the Israelite.
Or you could read my post no. 388.
Or you could read the following which is copied and pasted.
It really does get tiring with those that ignorantly try to use Romans 9 to support their Calvinist views.

Except Paul did not limit it to the Jews.

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Sorry but the bible says it is for Jew and Gentile as well! that means all of mankind.

 

[GodsGrace]

And yet you cannot and will not show from SCripture why TULIP is a "doctrine of devils as you falsely accuse.

COWARD!

There we go.
Can't defend your position....
go directly to ad hominems.
Typical.

Not worth the time to reply to your posts.

TULIP is not biblical and is heretical.
Any doctrine invented 1,500 years AFTER Jesus is heretical.

Find out what heretical means.