How are we to reckon ourselves as being dead to sin?

[Behold]

Why are people so afraid to lose their religious certainty?

""Hath God said".

Genesis 3:1

 

[Episkopos]

""Hath God said".

Genesis 3:1

You put yourself in the place of God. Look at your avatar. You have a messiah complex....but you are not Jesus. You are not God. You are a confused and lost soul.

 

[[email protected]]

Unfruitful

ἄκαρπος, (καρπός) (from Aeschylus down), without fruit, barren;
1. properly: δένδρα, Jud_1:12.

2. metaphorically, not yielding what it ought to yield, (A. V. unfruitful): Mat_13:22; Mar_4:19; destitute of good deeds, Tit_3:14; 2Pe_1:8; contributing nothing to the instruction, improvement, comfort, of others, 1Co_14:14; by litotes pernicious, Eph_5:11 (Wis_15:4; cf. Grimm on Wis_1:11).
Thayer Unabridged

1Co 14:14 for if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit doth pray, and my understanding is unfruitful.
ἄκαρπός akarpos|G175|Adj-NMS|unfruitful

Eph 5:11 and have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of the darkness and rather even convict,
akarpois|G175|Adj-DNP|unfruitful

Tit 3:14 and let them learn—ours also—to be leading in good works to the necessary uses, that they may not be unfruitful.
akarpoi|G175|Adj-NMP|unfruitful.

2Pe 1:8 for these things being to you and abounding, do make you neither inert nor unfruitful in regard to the acknowledging of our Lord Jesus Christ,
akarpous|G175|Adj-AMP|unfruitful

Mat 13:22 'And that sown toward the thorns, this is he who is hearing the word, and the anxiety of this age, and the deceitfulness of the riches, do choke the word, and it becometh-Verb - Present Indicative Middle - 1st Person unfruitful.
akarpos|G175|Adj-NMS|unfruitful γίνεται. ginetai|G1096|V-PIM/P-3S|it becomes.

Is something that becomes unfruitful after hearing the word, fit for life eternal?

And he becometh unfruitful: as in such circumstances he must needs be; or if there be any show of fruit in outward respect to the word, in an historical faith of it, in an external profession, and outward reformation, "yet brings not fruit to perfection", as Luke says; these in process of time shrivel up, wither away, and come to nothing.
Gill

You know, for all your fancy scribbling you failed to answer the question.

We are all suitably impressed with your scholarship, but where are the answers such learning professes to convey?

You should run for political office. You'd be good at press conferences.

So....now we know the technical qualities of unfruitfulness. What of the practical application?

Simply stated IT'S DEATH - spiritual death, physical death and an empty meaningless existence even when one is alive.

Such a life is worth nothing and is close to being discarded.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[Behold]

You put yourself in the place of God. Look at your avatar. You have a messiah complex....but you are not Jesus. You are not God. You are a confused and lost soul.

Here is the "messiah complex".

KJ21
For I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

2 for I made the decision to [a]know nothing [that is, to forego philosophical or theological discussions regarding inconsequential things and opinions while] among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified [and the meaning of His redemptive, substitutionary death and His resurrection].

I also simply teach THAT Pauline Theology.
This offends yours, as how can it not?
Your posts, are the work of a deeply deceived person, as proven by your bizarre theology, Episkopos.

 

[[email protected]]

@Episkopos its really very Odd too me

In the first century Christ following Jews were born out of religion.
Today Christ following folk are born into religion.

Quite right. I agree.

The only caveat to your statement is that JEWS AREN'T ALLOWED in church.

I'm not speaking to appearances and visits of Jews with friends and relatives at church dog & pony shows (for that's what most have become). I'm referring to absolute refusal of non-Jews to visit synagogue (they are uncomfortable with anything Jewish) despite the Messianic Jewish congregations who love Y'shuah (Jesus).

I'm referring to acceptance of Jews as believers in Christ and as those who share also in the blessings of the indwelling Spirit of Y'shuah. I'm referring to Jews who prefer to worship according to their ancient traditional form, but who have surrendered to Y'shuah as their Lord, their God and their ha-Mashiach (messiah).

I'm referring to Jews who don't want to participate in pagan rituals that supposedly celebrate Jesus Christ, but which oftentimes deny the meaning of His sacrificial death, repentance, His resurrection or the Grace He has given to live lives pleasing to God, by the LAW.

Indeed, folk today join religion - shallow and devoid of anything Godly though it may be. (The numbers are dwindling even as we read and write here. What's gone wrong? Few will admit to it and fewer still seriously consider a remedy.)

In the second century, Christ following Jews began to be restricted and removed from the fellowship of gentile church types. Jews weren't as 'good' as pagan church types were. They still aren't.

These are the days of Yom HaShoah - remembrance of the Holocaust. Among Jews it is said "Never forget. Never again."

Yet among church types the dream and hope for the future is for a repeat of the Holocaust, another brutal age of the murder of Jews (so as to force them to join a church). It's taught in the Sunday schools and from the pulpit and no one raises their voice to object to it.

Here is one voice. Here are a few words.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft....

 

[Episkopos]

Here is the "messiah complex".

KJ21
For I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

2 for I made the decision to [a]know nothing [that is, to forego philosophical or theological discussions regarding inconsequential things and opinions while] among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified [and the meaning of His redemptive, substitutionary death and His resurrection].

I also simply teach THAT Pauline Theology.
This offends yours, as how can it not?
Your posts, are the work of a deeply deceived person, as proven by your bizarre theology, Episkopos.

"Some things are believed because they are demonstrably true, but many other things are believed simply because they have been asserted repeatedly." Thomas Sowell

My "theology" is based on a very deep study of the bible (which people have only skimmed through) and by the living God who backed up His word by showing me the truth in a living way through Christ...the resurrected Christ.

I have that advantage...since most people just regurgitate what they have been conditioned to believe on Sunday morning in the pews.

 

[Behold]

My "theology" is based on a very deep study of the bible (

Your theology is not based on Paul's epistles, and if you deny it, you'll have to "Repent", again.

Many of the people on this Thread, or on any of your Threads, have a good fundamental understanding of Redemption as the "Blood Atonement".
And they, we, read your Threads, and its like reading something crazy and demonic.
Thats a fact, that you don't realize.

Your "stuff", is thoroughly Calvinistic, but its not just that, and overall its so foreign to Mainline Protestant Soteriology Theology, as well as typical Cult Theology..

Its really just a dark porridge of disconnected theological rambling that you have invented.

 

[Episkopos]

Your theology is not based on Paul's epistles, and if you deny it, you'll have to "Repent".

Your error is based on a myopic viewpoint based on a misunderstanding of what Paul is saying.

Many of the people on this Thread, or on any of your Threads, have a good fundamental understanding of Redemption as the "Blood Atonement".

What many here possess is based on a preconceived ideological premise that is easily refuted by a deeper study.

And they, we, read your Threads, and its like reading something crazy and demonic.

You are reading back your own image through the mirror that is the word. While you try to interpret the bible...it is interpreting you.

Thats a fact, that you don't realize.

The amount that you are not perceiving is monumental compared to what little you are able to get that is unsullied by a carnal understanding.

 

[Behold]

The amount that you are not perceiving is monumental compared to what little you are able to get that is unsullied by a carnal understanding.

I only teach Pauline Theology.
Why?
Because Paul's doctrine came from Christ Himself.
Calvin's came from the devil, and i invite you to put it in the dumpster where its designed to fit.
You dont know this, about Paul's Doctrine and Christ..... but you can open a NT and find out where that occurred.
If you ever do this, then that'll be your first step towards rightly dividing the NT.
Episkopos, As of now, your are a total Luke 11:35 based on your Videos, Threads, Theology, and Opinions

 

[Episkopos]

I only teach Pauline Theology.

You do realize that Pauline is not mentioned in the bible.

Why?
Because Paul's doctrine came from Christ Himself.

It's funny that Christ's teaching is right there in the gospels ...but you are able to ignore it and actually contradict it.

Calvin's came from the devil, and i invite you to put it in the dumpster where its designed to fit.
You dont know this, about Paul's Doctrine and Christ..... but you can open a NT and find out where that occurred.
If you ever do this, then that'll be your first step towards rightly dividing the NT.
Episkopos, As of now, your are a total Luke 11:35 based on your Videos, Threads, Theology, and Opinions

Don't forget my book. Check it out... I actually got a professional review recently from a world renowned review platform. ...They seem to think that I have a sound exegesis. But I guess that's because they actually read it.

Peter warns us of how people will misunderstand Paul. And you are falling into that trap.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

I only teach Pauline Theology.
Why?

Because Paul's doctrine came from Christ Himself.

And where did the other inspired writers get their doctrine from?

 

[Johann]

And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. - Daniel 12:2

At what educational level do people learn the difference between "many" and "all"????

--and right here is the TWO destinations brother-not 4--education, acquiring mere intellectual knowledge ABOVE of what stand written is of no use. וt makes us intellectual plagiarists

And rabbim of them that sleep in the admat aphar (dust of the ground) shall awake, 1.--some to Chayyei Olam (Everlasting Life), 2.--and some to reproaches (shames) and Dera'on Olam (Everlasting Contempt, Abhorrence, Aversion, i.e., Everlasting Gehinnom.[T.N. Onesh Olam is here made more fearsome in light of the prevalent neglect of Scripture in favor of non-Biblical studies]).

ורבים מישׁני אדמת עפר יקיצו אלה לחיי עולם ואלה לחרפות לדראוןעולם

וְרַבִּ֕ים H7227 ve·rab·Bim And many מִיְּשֵׁנֵ֥י H3463 mi·ye·she·Nei of them that sleep אַדְמַת־ H127 'ad·mat- of the earth עָפָ֖ר H6083 'a·Far in the dust יָקִ֑יצוּ H6974 ya·Ki·tzu; shall awake אֵ֚לֶּה H428 'El·leh these לְחַיֵּ֣י H2416 le·chai·Yei life עוֹלָ֔ם H5769 o·Lam, some to everlasting וְאֵ֥לֶּה H428 ve·'El·leh the others לַחֲרָפ֖וֹת H2781 la·cha·ra·Fot and some to shame לְדִרְא֥וֹן H1860 le·dir·'on contempt עוֹלָֽם׃ H5769 o·Lam. [and] everlasting סsa·Mek
The Time of the End

Dan 12:1 And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproach and everlasting shame.
Dan 12:3 And the wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament, and some of the many righteous as the stars for ever and ever.
Dan 12:4 And thou, Daniel, close the words, and seal the book to the time of the end; until many are taught, and knowledge is increased.
Dan 12:5 And I Daniel saw, and, behold, two others stood, on one side of the bank of the river, and the other on the other side of the bank of the river.
Dan 12:6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, who was over the water of the river, When will be the end of the wonders which thou has mentioned?
Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was over the water of the river, and he lifted up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and sware by him that lives for ever, that it should be for a time of times and half a time: when the dispersion is ended they shall know all these things.
Dan 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: and I said, O Lord, what will be the end of these things?
Dan 12:9 And he said, Go, Daniel: for the words are closed and sealed up to the time of the end.
Dan 12:10 Many must be tested, and thoroughly whitened, and tried with fire, and sanctified; but the transgressors shall transgress: and none of the transgressors shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

LXX-- And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproach and everlasting shame.

I don't see, in this verse why you are concerned about


of them = from among them.

sleep, &c. An inspired revelation as to death.

earth = ground.

shall awake. This is bodily resurrection.

some = these (the former).

everlasting life. Joh_5:28, Joh_5:29. Act_24:15.

some = those. The latter: i.e. the rest of the dead (Isa_26:19, Isa_26:21; Isa_27:6. Rev_20:5, Rev_20:6). Compare 1Co_15:23. 1Th_4:16.

The word "many" is used, either because, as all will not sleep, ; there will be some that will be alive and awake at Christ's coming,

1Co_15:51, or, as it signifies, a multitude, Psa_97:1 and so here the innumerable multitude of the dead, who are afterwards distributively considered; and indeed the word is sometimes used for "all"; see Rom_5:15,

--or-
And many of them - The natural and obvious meaning of the word “many” (רבים rabı̂ym) here is, that a large portion of the persons referred to would thus awake, but not all. So we should understand it if applied to other things, as in such expressions as these - “many of the people,” “many of the houses in a city,” “many of the trees in a forest,” “many of the rivers in a country,” etc.

In the Scriptures, however, it is undeniable that the word is sometimes used to denote the whole considered as constituted of many, as in Rom_5:15-16, Rom_5:19.
Rom 5:14 but the death did reign from Adam till Moses, even upon those not having sinned in the likeness of Adam's transgression, who is a type of him who is coming.
Rom 5:15 But, not as the offence so also is the free gift; for if by the offence of the one the many did die, much more did the grace of God, and the free gift in grace of the one man Jesus Christ, abound to the many;
Rom 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

In these passages no one can well doubt that the word many is used to denote all, considered as composed of the “many” that make up the human race, or the “many” offences that man has committed. So if it were to be used respecting those who were to come forth from the caves and fastnesses where they had been driven by persecution, or those who sleep in their graves, and who will come forth in a general resurrection, it might be used of them considered as the many, and it might be said “the many” or “the multitude” comes forth.
Barnes

What you are doing is majoring on minors Epi--you have yet to explain the 4 ETERNAL destinations-even the Jews believe in TWO destinations, not 4.
Note-not being facetious with you

many: Job_19:25-27; Isa_26:19; Eze_37:1-4, Eze_37:12; Hos_13:14; Mat_22:29-32; Joh_11:23-26; 1Co_15:20-22, 1Co_15:51-54; 1Th_4:14; Rev_20:12
some to everlasting life: Mat_25:46; Joh_5:28-29; Act_24:15
everlasting contempt: Isa_66:24; Jer_20:11; Rom_9:21

 

[Lizbeth]

Doesn't gennēthēnai precede "till Christ be formed in you? Verb - Aorist Infinitive Passive.

There are six basic adverbial uses of the infinitive: purpose, result, time, cause, means, and complementary.

ðA. Purpose [to, in order to, for the purpose of]

1. Definition

The infinitive is used to indicate the purpose or goal of the action or state of its controlling verb. It answers the question “Why?” in that it looks ahead to the anticipated and intended result. This is one of the most common uses of the infinitive.3

Sometimes it is difficult to distinguish this usage from result. Not a few texts are impacted by the decision, however.

Just want to know if I understand you correctly.

Brother, I'm not even sure I understand myself yet really. :) Just trying to examine and look at this and feel the way slowly.

And am I understanding what you are saying here....how scripture sometimes states things as though it is already a done deal, when it is sometimes really speaking in a "hopeful" sense looking ahead to when the good work that has begun in us will be completed....? (Like how all believers are called "saints" even though we're not all fully sanctified yet and many are "yet carnal".)

That is what I'm wondering about being born again....seems in one sense we're being counted as being born again even if in another sense it is that "Christ in us" has only as of yet really been "conceived in us" by the Holy Spirit and we are still in process of growing and gestating that seed in order to produce spiritual fruit.....fruit of our spiritual womb, with the goal being that Christ in us would be born/revealed/manifested wholly. It seems to agree with the parable of the farmer sowing seed in His field (conception) how the seed needs to germinate and grow (gestate) in order to produce a crop of fruit (give birth to that fruit), and some didn't fall on good soil etc.

One thing I do agree with Episkopos about, at least tentatively, is that reversing the curse of the fall is a two step process. Since there is a two-step fall (consequences) of Adam and Eve in the Garden, and since the children of Israel had two obstacles/bodies of water to get across (Red Sea and then the Jordan), and since even God's creation ie, the natural process of birth, reflects this...two narrow openings to get through in order that the baby be born. (Narrow path, and it's through much tribulation - sorrows, birth pangs - that we enter the kingdom of heaven.) Also this would agree with Elijah dousing the altar twice with water......like a double impediment to the fire of God consuming/burning (receiving/accepting) the sacrifice (to truly make us a living sacrifice)...yet with God all things are possible, and it's for His glory that it is difficult and appears impossible.

Because two or three years ago the Lord gave me the number "two", He just spoke that number to my spirit, that was all He said, though I didn't really know why at the time.....but since then I began to pay attention to things in the bible that involve two things, or that happen twice, or are double, etc. Notice also that there are two episodes written in the bible of the Rock pouring out water to the children of Israel in the wilderness. That speaks to two outpourings of the Holy Spirit, I believe, in order to enter the promised land.....the second one being that second deposit of oil for our lamps that is necessary to enter the wedding feast (wedding speaks to a union with Christ that results in the birth of a baby - ie, fruit...Christ in us being fully formed and born so to speak).

But I'm not 100% sure yet how to comprehend these things, how to handle it.....whether it is potentially possible for these things to be fulfilled on a personal level in this life, or if it only "little by little" in a concurrent sense, or whether it is only going to happen as a corporate, historical event when Christ returns to judge this world. I just don't know what to do with it, so I wait on the Lord for His further guidance and help.

 

[Behold]

You do realize that Pauline is not mentioned in the bible.

You are welcome to your book....as ive read it on Forums, and it is not Cross centered or Grace of God related.

I wonder..... did you state in your book, as you did on this Forum that the Cross of Christ"..

= "is whipping boy" nonsense?

And regarding...."Pauline Theology"......Its mentioned exactly like this in the NT.

Paul Said...>"be a follower of me, as i follow Christ".

You dont., according to your Book, Threads, Posts, and opinions.

And....
Paul Said..

""""""I did not receive it from any man, (his Doctrine) nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ."""""

 

[ChristisGod]

You put yourself in the place of God. Look at your avatar. You have a messiah complex....but you are not Jesus. You are not God. You are a confused and lost soul.

Hath Epi said which is the opposite of thus sayeth the Lord !!!

 

[ChristisGod]

I have my own books.
You are welcome to yours....as ive read them on Forums, and they are not Cross centered or Grace of God related.

And "Pauline Theology"......Its mentioned exactly like this in the NT.

Paul Said...>"be a follower of me, as i follow Christ".

You dont., according to to your Book, Threads, Posts, and opinions.

And....
Paul Said..

""""""I did not receive it from any man, (his Doctrine) nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ."""""

Neither is epi mentioned lol

 

[Johann]

You know, for all your fancy scribbling you failed to answer the question.

We are all suitably impressed with your scholarship, but where are the answers such learning professes to convey?

You should run for political office. You'd be good at press conferences.

So....now we know the technical qualities of unfruitfulness. What of the practical application?

Simply stated IT'S DEATH - spiritual death, physical death and an empty meaningless existence even when one is alive.

Such a life is worth nothing and is close to being discarded.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

I have already answered the question--but what you are doing, like most, is taking a "snippet" of what has been posted, turn it around, making me a liar--sarcasm noted-

Eph_5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

You may keep on hollering from the choir loft, not interested.

 

[Behold]

Neither is epi mentioned lol

As far as i know, Calvin never wrote an Epistle, in any bible.

"Calvinism" is not Christianity.

 

[ChristisGod]

As far as i know, Calvin never wrote an Epistle, in any bible.

"Calvinism" is not Christianity.

Agreed but Paul wrote 1/2 of our NT. Hence they are called the Pauline epistles which epi denied

 

[Lizbeth]

This is rich. Well, nothing they mentioned in Sunday school...that's for sure. I suppose this lack of knowledge leads you to condemn people who are not condemned and champion people who are such.

There are 4 eternal destines for people not two. The immature will react to this as it doesn't fit with their indoctrination.

You are not including outer darkness. Nor the saved in the nations. (Besides those that are cast into the lake of fire and the saints who dwell in the holy city)

Now the hypocrites are saved, as by fire...but are not permitted among the nations (no righteousness) nor are they allowed into the holy city (no holiness). They are not cast into the lake of fire because they are saved. Jesus said that ALL who believe in Him will be saved.

Among the saved are 3 different destinies. Just like in the parable of the Sower (a key parable to all the others) we see 4 kinds of soil with 3 among those who believe.

The shallow soil represent the name it claim it crowd...who begin with joy...but then get offended by the truth.
The weedy soil are the righteous who care too much for the things of this world (including family, people)
The good soil are those rare few who bear eternal fruit. (these have forsaken all to win Christ)

Since there are so few who listen to the words of Jesus...it's probably of no use to cite Rev. 22:11 (which I take as authoritative and a key to understanding the whole of scriptures concerning who we are and how we will be judged)

I'll have to come back to this. I believe there are different rewards for those who have eternal life, as well as different punishments for those who do not. Is this what you are referring to? Still either death or life. Some will suffer in a greater or lesser way in hell than others, ....the punishments will fit the crimes, since God is just...... and likewise there will be greater and lesser rewards in eternity. Anyway Lord willing I'll get back to this later.