How are we to reckon ourselves as being dead to sin?

[Behold]

Agreed but Paul wrote 1/2 of our NT. Hence they are called the Pauline epistles which epi denied

He denied this also?
Im not surprised.

Once he told me that The Cross is "Whipping Boy" nonsense, and the Grace of God is " that Free stuff", i realized what i was dealing with.

 

[ChristisGod]

He denied this also?
Im not surprised.

Once he told me that The Cross is "Whipping Boy" nonsense, and the Grace of God is " that Free stuff", i realized what i was dealing with.

Wow unbelievable it’s blasphemous to reference Jesus in such a disrespectful manner. It’s evil from the deepest darkest pits of hell. I’m appalled .

 

[marks]

Why are people so afraid to lose their religious certainty? Because they know that beliefs are not equivalent to faith.

What you term "religious certainty" is what I term "believing God's promises". I don't understand how that you have the same book I do, claim to know the same God I know, and you do not believe His promises.

Have you personally encountered God? Do you know Him as a Person? Not just praying to air, but speaking to someone who is there, that speaks to you? Have you encountered His incredible love for you? Have you come to see how much He treasures you?

You are right, beliefs are not equivalent to faith, in that, you can have beliefs about whatever that give you no benefit. Come in to real faith! Faith that is a full reliance on Jesus Christ and His death for you to reconcile you to God, faith that God will do as He said, will being you all the way. He is faithful, and He will do it.

Much love!

 

[Enoch111]

Why are people so afraid to lose their religious certainty?

No. People are afraid to lose their SANITY listening to false teachers like yourself. Your insane ramblings are a sight to behold.

 

[Waiting on him]

Quite right. I agree.

The only caveat to your statement is that JEWS AREN'T ALLOWED in church.

I'm not speaking to appearances and visits of Jews with friends and relatives at church dog & pony shows (for that's what most have become). I'm referring to absolute refusal of non-Jews to visit synagogue (they are uncomfortable with anything Jewish) despite the Messianic Jewish congregations who love Y'shuah (Jesus).

I'm referring to acceptance of Jews as believers in Christ and as those who share also in the blessings of the indwelling Spirit of Y'shuah. I'm referring to Jews who prefer to worship according to their ancient traditional form, but who have surrendered to Y'shuah as their Lord, their God and their ha-Mashiach (messiah).

I'm referring to Jews who don't want to participate in pagan rituals that supposedly celebrate Jesus Christ, but which oftentimes deny the meaning of His sacrificial death, repentance, His resurrection or the Grace He has given to live lives pleasing to God, by the LAW.

Indeed, folk today join religion - shallow and devoid of anything Godly though it may be. (The numbers are dwindling even as we read and write here. What's gone wrong? Few will admit to it and fewer still seriously consider a remedy.)

In the second century, Christ following Jews began to be restricted and removed from the fellowship of gentile church types. Jews weren't as 'good' as pagan church types were. They still aren't.

These are the days of Yom HaShoah - remembrance of the Holocaust. Among Jews it is said "Never forget. Never again."

Yet among church types the dream and hope for the future is for a repeat of the Holocaust, another brutal age of the murder of Jews (so as to force them to join a church). It's taught in the Sunday schools and from the pulpit and no one raises their voice to object to it.

Here is one voice. Here are a few words.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft....

I won’t elude to knowing all of the history, but in 70 ad it was religion that God was fed up with. The warnings were there to come out of Judaism, but weren’t heeded by many. I’m not so certain that history will not repeat itself.

 

[GTW27]

Brother, I'm not even sure I understand myself yet really. :) Just trying to examine and look at this and feel the way slowly.

And am I understanding what you are saying here....how scripture sometimes states things as though it is already a done deal, when it is sometimes really speaking in a "hopeful" sense looking ahead to when the good work that has begun in us will be completed....? (Like how all believers are called "saints" even though we're not all fully sanctified yet and many are "yet carnal".)

That is what I'm wondering about being born again....seems in one sense we're being counted as being born again even if in another sense it is that "Christ in us" has only as of yet really been "conceived in us" by the Holy Spirit and we are still in process of growing and gestating that seed in order to produce spiritual fruit.....fruit of our spiritual womb, with the goal being that Christ in us would be born/revealed/manifested wholly. It seems to agree with the parable of the farmer sowing seed in His field (conception) how the seed needs to germinate and grow (gestate) in order to produce a crop of fruit (give birth to that fruit), and some didn't fall on good soil etc.

One thing I do agree with Episkopos about, at least tentatively, is that reversing the curse of the fall is a two step process. Since there is a two-step fall (consequences) of Adam and Eve in the Garden, and since the children of Israel had two obstacles/bodies of water to get across (Red Sea and then the Jordan), and since even God's creation ie, the natural process of birth, reflects this...two narrow openings to get through in order that the baby be born. (Narrow path, and it's through much tribulation - sorrows, birth pangs - that we enter the kingdom of heaven.) Also this would agree with Elijah dousing the altar twice with water......like a double impediment to the fire of God consuming/burning (receiving/accepting) the sacrifice (to truly make us a living sacrifice)...yet with God all things are possible, and it's for His glory that it is difficult and appears impossible.

Because two or three years ago the Lord gave me the number "two", He just spoke that number to my spirit, that was all He said, though I didn't really know why at the time.....but since then I began to pay attention to things in the bible that involve two things, or that happen twice, or are double, etc. Notice also that there are two episodes written in the bible of the Rock pouring out water to the children of Israel in the wilderness. That speaks to two outpourings of the Holy Spirit, I believe, in order to enter the promised land.....the second one being that second deposit of oil for our lamps that is necessary to enter the wedding feast (wedding speaks to a union with Christ that results in the birth of a baby - ie, fruit...Christ in us being fully formed and born so to speak).

But I'm not 100% sure yet how to comprehend these things, how to handle it.....whether it is potentially possible for these things to be fulfilled on a personal level in this life, or if it only "little by little" in a concurrent sense, or whether it is only going to happen as a corporate, historical event when Christ returns to judge this world. I just don't know what to do with it, so I wait on the Lord for His further guidance and help.

Blessings in Christ Jesus Lizbeth! Till Christ be formed in you. Perhaps. "And the" two" shall become "One" Little by little as we deny ourselves and the lust of this world.

 

[Episkopos]

He denied this also?
Im not surprised.

Once he told me that The Cross is "Whipping Boy" nonsense, and the Grace of God is " that Free stuff", i realized what i was dealing with.

You lie of course. You have to, to have any case against me. I said that YOU treat Jesus as your whipping boy. Look it up. And YOU are only in it for the free stuff.

I know the cross personally as the power over sin. You, on the other hand, can only point to a cross AS you sin.

That being the case you have to lie about what I say to make a case that fools only the simple.

 

[marks]

And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. - Daniel 12:2

It's a matter of rightly dividing the Scriptures. Not everything is about everyone. Keep it all in context. Understand the mysteries. So many reject the mysteries (musterion) and end up with the wrong answers.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 KJV
15) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18) Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Both of these passages are true, just as stated. Again we need to be aware of the context and address of each.

If you claim the resurrection to everlasting contempt for those who are in Christ, that claim is refuted in this passage, which states that both living and dead "in Christ", that is, the born again, baptized into Christ, will meet the Lord in the air, to "ever be with the Lord".

This is also true, as stated. Both are.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

It's a matter of rightly dividing the Scriptures. Not everything is about everyone. Keep it all in context. Understand the mysteries. So many reject the mysteries (musterion) and end up with the wrong answers.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 KJV
15) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18) Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Both of these passages are true, just as stated. Again we need to be aware of the context and address of each.

If you claim the resurrection to everlasting contempt for those who are in Christ, that claim is refuted in this passage, which states that both living and dead "in Christ", that is, the born again, baptized into Christ, will meet the Lord in the air, to "ever be with the Lord".

This is also true, as stated. Both are.

Much love!

You are interpreting the meaning away from the verses. You are assuming that being "in" Christ is the equivalent of those who have begun in the Spirit. But the bible refutes that premise. Not all who begin a race finish well.

So you are imposing your "idee fixe" of being born again...and twisting the meaning of scriptures based on that.

You have to come away from your pet doctrines...your imposing your own ideas... IF you want to understand the ways of God. Since not many seem to care at all about that...go on believing what you want. There MUST be heresies.

 

[marks]

I know the cross personally as the power over sin.

Really? The way you trash-talk others argues otherwise.

Much love!

 

[marks]

You are assuming that being "in" Christ is the equivalent of those who have begun in the Spirit.

No, you are not correct. Try to read my words for what I've written. And go to the Scriptures and read them for what God has written. These things are clearly stated, what it means to be "In Christ".

Have you been baptized into Christ?

There MUST be heresies.

So true!

 

[Episkopos]

No. People are afraid to lose their SANITY listening to false teachers like yourself. Your insane ramblings are a sight to behold.

Truly its the world upside down with many here. See, I didn't say "all". I know the difference between many and all. I can't say that MANY do! :cool:

 

[Episkopos]

Really? The way you trash-talk others argues otherwise.

Much love!

I see you are continuing to champion the outer man both in yourself, and others...as expected. The truth barely makes a dent in your false religious covering. Continue to take counsel of one another.

Is. 30:1 Woe to the rebellious children, saith the Lord, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin:

 

[amigo de christo]

Same here--

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God: and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. - Revelation 20:12

And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. - Daniel 12:2
John 5:28-29

Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

Mathew 25:31-46

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

And do take note--lately "eternal is NOT eternal by some-forgetting that aionos/olam--is Plural.

How often cornelious must have prayed , given so much to the poor , done many alms and etc .
And an angel was sent to tell cornelious that while he was doing good , HE still needed one thing .
If cornelious who prayed to , believed in the only GOD there is , the one of the jews ,
Did much good still needed to BELIEVE IN JESUS to be saved . THEN i say ALL NEED TO BELIEVE in HE ALONE .
This ol man , tired as i get on some days and pounded by inflamation at times , is going out preaching JESUS ALONE .
This world and this life never gave me what CHRIST DID . All it gave me was deceptoin , false hope
anything but TRUTH . And even as i type this it brings tears to me eyes to remember what i was and all the evil i once did .
And yet STILL in all of that GOD sent me the ONLY HOPE , the ONLY grace , the ONLY salvation i never earned .
This gringo earned HELL ten trillion times over . BUT now you know WHY i always encourage all to praise and to thank GOD
the GLORIOUS LORD JESUS CHRIST . cause GOD gave me exactly what i did not earn but rather grace .
This ol man is going out the same way i came in , BELIEVING IN and POINTING ONLY to FAITH IN CHRIST JESUS .
Now lift those hands my friend . Lift them high and just bellow out those praises to the LORD .
This might seem hard to grasp for some , But i truly tell us all a deep truth . THE ONLY GOODNESS i have in me
IS COMING FROM GOD ALONE , CHRIST ALONE , THE SPIRIT ALONE . IF any wants me to boast in me
well let me say this , let me boast in me for one second . I EARNED HELLFIRES and was the worst of many .
NOW let me BOAST IN GOD for HIS GRACE that was given me IN CHRIST . THIS man gonna boast IN THE LORD my friend . IN THE LORD .

 

[amigo de christo]

Only if you could read the bible from a born again believers perspective, you would see that we are right.

hope this helps !!!

This IS the problem . you hit it spot on right .
Many have not been truly born again . For many have not submitted themselves unto the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD .
What is this righteousness of GOD that I speak of , YOU KNOW HIS NAME , JESUS CHRIST .
too many do as did the jews and try to attain to righteousness by the law , by their merits , by their deeds
and yet do so without FAITH IN CHRIST .
THIS didnt bode well for the jews , and it wont bode well for the gentiles either .
IF IT AINT BY FAITH , ITS ALL IN VAIN . MARK MY WORDS . IF IT AINT BY FAITH ITS ALL IN VAIN .

 

[Johann]

And am I understanding what you are saying here....how scripture sometimes states things as though it is already a done deal, when it is sometimes really speaking in a "hopeful" sense looking ahead to when the good work that has begun in us will be completed....? (Like how all believers are called "saints" even though we're not all fully sanctified yet and many are "yet carnal".)

I think I'm more messed up than you, so--might come back later, not now sister.

What I read in my Bible is refuted as trash by many members-my apology for the edit.
J.

 

[marks]

You are interpreting the meaning away from the verses. You are assuming that being "in" Christ is the equivalent of those who have begun in the Spirit. But the bible refutes that premise.

1 Corinthians 3:1 KJV
1) And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

Even the spiritually immature are in Christ.

Looking at the places where God speaks of those who are "in Christ" shows the full picture.

Much love!

 

[amigo de christo]

I think I'm more messed up than you, so--might come back later, not now sister.

Sometimes folks can stumble , here let me remind us all of what we already know .
The WALK IS SIMPLE . BELIEVE YE IN CHRIST JESUS and all that you NEED you will have to walk as GOD desires .
See how simple that is .
I once had the mind that many praised and seen as so wise and smart and intellectual ,
But after grace was sent and CHRIST Revealed , well i died to that confusion . What i once embraced
i now fled . I had rather be seen as a little dumb child who can barely count to twenty , and that if my shoes are off ,
Than to be seen as the wise man i once was deemed by the world . CAUSE that was FOOLISHNESS .
I tell us all the wisdom of this world , WISE as it may sound and men will praise you for it as they did me ,
IS TOTAL FOOLISHNESS . SO let us simply LEARN CHRIST and STAY GLUED to the doctrine of our LORD .

 

[Episkopos]

1 Corinthians 3:1 KJV
1) And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

Even the spiritually immature are in Christ.

Looking at the places where God speaks of those who are "in Christ" shows the full picture.

Much love!

When you are so uncareful in your reading...and are so quick to jump to conclusions...how are you going to be able to weigh the mysteries of God (for those who have not experienced resurrection life)?

Would someone as passive-aggressive as yourself understand what being born again even means? And about abiding in Christ?...whoever abides in Him walks as Jesus walked. In Him is no sin.

You are speaking on a dogmatic level....and reasoning what you read from the bible on that level.

We are born anew into the race of faith. Many are called...but few are chosen. You need to spend a year or so investigating the parallel between the book of Exodus and the Christian walk. The same goes for the 4 destinies. A superficial look will not overcome many years of dogmatic indoctrination and certainty.

 

[amigo de christo]

1 Corinthians 3:1 KJV
1) And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

Even the spiritually immature are in Christ.

Looking at the places where God speaks of those who are "in Christ" shows the full picture.

Much love!

This might help . Do you remember in the bible how peter wrote to the church
and told them he was writing to them not because they didnt know the truth ,
but rather he was reminding them of the truth .
Well in case you forgot something , EPI dont preach BELIEVE YE IN CHRIST JESUS .
HE calls that religious dogma . You are trying to feed meat , not to a babe but to one who even rejects
the one true gospel . DO keep in that mind . that man sees me as the enemy of his god
And try and understand why its not capitalized . cause any god or any love that wont bend the KNEE to CHRIST
IS FALSE AS HECK . PEROID . please hold not thy breath waiting for me to say otherwise .
We POINT TO CHRIST and if one believes there is no need to believe on Him . THEN TELL ME
HOW IS THE SPIRIT IN SUCH A MAN . exactly .