How are we to reckon ourselves as being dead to sin?

[Laurina]

No. It is your cult leader who does not understand

I pray you wake up sis. Stop listening to a man, and look to the word.. Because you are being led astray

Your statement is very unkind. I have no cult leader.
These type of statements chase kind people away.....but what do you care about good fruit?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Your statement is very unkind. I have no cult leader.
These type of statements chase kind people away.....but what do you care about good fruit?

What good fruit comes from a person who attacked and belittles anyone who does not agree with him..

 

[VictoryinJesus]

So thats how he showed nicodemus how to be born again?

John 3: 30 is long after the conversation between Jesus and nicodemus about being born again.

You just asked for where in John 3. But what you were asking was what he showed to nicodemus?

What John said “He must increase. I must decrease.” Isn’t that also in John 3:16? Having not faith in our own image but in God who gave His begotten son. Maybe not in the context but elsewhere so that we may be found not having our own image, but His. Isn’t that what he was telling nicodemus who asked “how can this be so?” How can one be born anew?” John 3:16. Then as Jesus goes on he includes
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Is that not the same as men loving their own image rather than His? I’m truly stumped here what the debate is over? Does God desire us to be in His likeness or our own? Even the verses about one image is corrupted, back-biting, tormenting, hatred, envy and greed …all sins included down to the least. OR peace, mercy, long-suffering, brotherly kindness, “Faith”, forgiveness …so why the debate? It is all over John 3. Yes, even right down to John the Baptist well quoted, “what must” happen or take place. God must take His place. Jesus to nicodemus “you must” be born again.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You just asked for where in John 3. But what you were asking was what he showed to nicodemus?

What John said “He must increase. I must decrease.” Isn’t that also in John 3:16? Having not faith in our own image but in God who gave His begotten son. Maybe not in the context but elsewhere so that we can be found in His image and not our own. Isn’t that what he was telling nicodemus who asked “how can this be? How can I be born anew?” John 3:16. Then as Jesus goes on he includes
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Is that not the same as men loving their own image rather than His? I’m truly stumped here what the debate is over? Does God desire us to be in His likeness or our own? Even the verses about one image is corrupted, back-biting, tormenting, hatred, envy and greed …all sins included down to the least. OR peace, mercy, long-suffering, brotherly kindness, “Faith”, …so why the debate?

I asked you how to be born again, You gave me your answer. I asked where that was said in John 3. (Because Jesus told nicodemus and us how to be born again) and you showed me a verse where John the baptist said he must decrease so Christ could increase. So i asked what that had to do with being born again? Since it was not what jesus was talking about

as for the rest here. I am again not sure what you mean

Jesus said one must be born of water and spirit.

He then said as moses lifted the serpent so to must the son of man be lifted up that whoever believes wil never die but will live forever.

Moses lifted the serpent because they were getting it by snakes and dying, so God had moses. Those who believed looked up and although they were as good as dead. They lived.

Those who did not look up in believe (unbelieve) ended up in the end suffering their own fate. They died.

This is what being born again means, We who are dead, are raised to new life. We are born again, we are made alive, the seperation because god and us because of sin is removed..

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Isn’t that what he was telling nicodemus who asked “how can this be so?”

How can I enter back into my mother’s womb and put off my image, to be born Anew in Gods likeness? How can this be so? Sounds like us scratching our heads

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I asked you how to be born again, You gave me your answer.

Which was: loss of our own image; gaining His.

I asked where that was said in John 3.

Which you asked where does it mention this in John 3. Now my answer is: in all of it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

How can I enter back into my mother’s womb and put off my image, to be born Anew in Gods likeness? How can this be so? Sounds like us scratching our heads

Yes, Nicodemus did not understand. Then Jesus showed him

10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man [b]who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should [c]not perish buthave eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God

Is this not what we need to be saved from. Condemnation? What good is it if we are saved from evil if we are still condemned?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Which was: loss of our own image; gaining His.

Yes, but that is not what Jesus said

Which you asked where does it mention this in John 3. Now my answer is: in all of it.

I am sorry, I do not see it

He said to believe, to look at the cross.. not to lose our image,

God makes us a new creation. He does not make us lose our image, he changes it.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

God makes us a new creation. He does not make us lose our image, he changes it.

Maybe. But words like “take off” “cast off” “put off” “remove” and “put on” …sound to me like “taking off” of a thing - “casting off” a thing—“putting off” a thing —“removing” a thing and “putting on” another.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Maybe. But words like “take off” “cast off” “put off” “remove” and “put on” …sound to me like “taking off” of a thing - “casting off” a thing—“putting off” a thing —“removing” a thing and “putting on” another.

To change clothing
Do you remove your old clothes to put on new clothing?
Or do we put the new over the old? Point is … “changing” clothing is not old clothing turning into new clothing. But “changing” is removing and “changing” into something else.

 

[Waiting on him]

To change clothing
Do you remove your old clothes to put on new clothing?
Or do we put the new over the old? Point is … “changing” clothing is not old clothing turning into new clothing. But “changing” is removing and “changing” into something else.

Could it be what’s cast off is Judaism?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Could it be what’s cast off is Judaism?

Then that would exclude the one who knows nothing about Judaism molesting a little child behind closed doors right now; using that child to fulfill their own lust. If it is only about religion. To me it is the state of the heart …that includes all not only Judaism that harms. You read it in the news or hear about it all the time …some mom harming their child or some father hurting their child and they have nothing at all to do with Judaism. Does that state of the heart mean nothing to God but only Judaism or religion?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Then that would exclude the one who knows nothing about Judaism molesting a little child behind closed doors right now; using that child to fulfill their own lust. If it is only about religion.

What I meant was…they can’t claim Judaism made me do it.

 

[Waiting on him]

Then that would exclude the one who knows nothing about Judaism molesting a little child behind closed doors right now; using that child to fulfill their own lust. If it is only about religion. To me it is the state of the heart …that includes all not only Judaism that harms. You read it in the news or hear about it all the time …some mom harming their child or some father hurting their child and they have nothing at all to do with Judaism. Does that state of the heart mean nothing to God but only Judaism or religion?

Any rational society would put that too death.

But that would be un Christian

 

[Michiah-Imla]

amigo de christo condemns most churches, so it's no surprise that he doesn't attend one. They would throw him out very quickly.

@amigo de christo has nothing to be ashamed of. For:

“…Diotrephes, who loves to have the preeminence among them, did not receive us.

Therefore if I come, I will remember his deeds which he does, ranting against us with evil words. And not content with these, neither does he himself receive the brothers. And he forbids those who would, and casts them out of the church.” (3 John 1:9-10)

“Blessed are you when men shall hate you, and when they shall cut you off, and when they shall reproach you and shall cast out your name as evil, for the sake of the Son of Man.” (Luke 6:22)

 

[Lizbeth]

That's beliefs and hope. Faith does things NOW. When you read the dead were raised...do you think that means at that time...or sometime in the future at the general resurrection? As in...he just LOOKS dead...he's actually positionally alive????

Your scale is a religious scale. Not based in the truth and the revealed light of God. You are deeply religious, is all. You are missing the depth of the truth. But Jesus is a revolutionary. He came to give us a way (the WAY) into the kingdom NOW. Not to pretend. Can we pretend to cast out devils? Can we pretend to heal people, raise the dead? None of that is based on grace unless the power of God is manifested in the world.

Grace through faith is not...pretend through beliefs.

Until you wake up from your religious slumber...or from spiritual death, as it were... and Christ gives you light...in real time..you will wander aimlessly in the desert.

When you walk in the truth...you are pinching yourself because your human belief is far exceeded...so that you have a hard time believing where you are. Belief is NOT faith. Faith is experienced personally but it is OBJECTIVE. Beliefs are subjective...wanting desperately to believe something is good when in fact it is merely subjective.

Trusting in God is by faith...but at what level? A human faith is good only if it trusts what God CAN do. But the faith of Christ is about what God IS doing.

Abraham had human faith...trusting that God could do anything.

An example of the faith OF Christ is Peter walking on water WITH Jesus.

Do you see the difference?

Can you say...this can't be happening? THAT is how your beliefs react to the faith OF Christ.

All things have been put under His feet, but we do not yet "see" all things put under Him. We have faith and do see miracles, but don't see miracles happening every minute of every day. Paul even had to tell Timothy to take wine for his stomach and ailments....why wasn't he healed, even though the early church had "great grace" upon them. And did Peter ever walk on water again? Jesus only did what He saw the Father doing. And we walk by faith, not by sight....many use the fact that there is suffering in the world (not cured by miracles) as an excuse to reject God.

 

[Lizbeth]

I’m not saying the wrath of God is = to a hardened and unrepentant heart. That is not what I meant at all, but wrath upon a hardened and unrepentant heart. Do you think I’m ignoring you reap what you sow? All I meant was I could see how and unrepentant and hard heart ‘stores up’ wrath. drawing and gathering wrath unto itself (hardness and unrepentant) upon which comes destruction.

Colossians 3:6-7 For which things' sake the wrath of God comes on the children of disobedience: [7] In the which you also walked some time, when you lived in them.

I was trying share that I can relate because I fully can see there is truth in that “you store up wrath” because of all the time my heart was truly hard and unrepentant. I can see what “hardness” and “unrepentant” “stored up” was wrath, and the fruit of that was death. That is why, to me, God is so gracious and long suffering, and patience, and merciful. Because I’ve walked in the flesh fulfilling the lust and desires of the flesh. For Him to provide of Himself another way, an escape as He said “I will put no more on you than you can bear, but with it will provide an escape” is more merciful than I ever was told of God while seated in a pew of a church building. Personally I was taught God will not put on you more than you can bear. But the way I was taught that was that while in the flesh God will not put too much for your flesh to bear. To me that is not the point, but when too much is on you to bear in the flesh… the escape is His Spirit is able to bear what flesh can not. So the lie to me, the twisting of, God will not put too much that the flesh fails…because I don’t see that is true but instead …it will fail.

Colossians 3:8-9 But now you also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. [9] Lie not one to another, seeing that you have put off the old man with his deeds;

We never pause to consider if we lie to others. For example “oh I’m so sorry all this destruction has come upon you. Remember God won’t put no more on you than you can bear.”

In reply to our lie, “wow. God must think I can bear a lot then.”

“Yes. You are so strong. He knows this strength you possess.” Instead of, when you have been pressed to your limit, beyond your strength, having yes more than you can bear, He will provide. (sufficiency in God)

I agree with your post here.

What will His wrath will look like in the end if there is so much suffering and tribulation and death in this fallen world already to give us an idea?

And I believe sometimes He gives us more than we can bear in order to break us, which enables us to begin relying on His Spirit.

 

[Episkopos]

All things have been put under His feet, but we do not yet "see" all things put under Him.

You are not Jesus.

We have faith and do see miracles, but don't see miracles happening every minute of every day. Paul even had to tell Timothy to take wine for his stomach and ailments....why wasn't he healed, even though the early church had "great grace" upon them.

Great grace does not cause stomach ailments. You are conflating things to avoid obvious truth about how the bible is written.

And did Peter ever walk on water again?

He did better than that. He stood in the faith OF Christ never wavering. Ding miraculous things and speaking with God's own mouth.

For all your selective bible reading...you need to be thorough...and less pandering to your flesh.

Jesus only did what He saw the Father doing. And we walk by faith, not by sight

But do you realize that was an actual seeing...not a WWFD (What would Father do). We can also do likewise when we are seated with Him in Zion. You confuse faith with beliefs and hope.

....many use the fact that there is suffering in the world (not cured by miracles) as an excuse to reject God.

On a religious scale...yes. I'm not speaking on a religious scale...look much higher.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Maybe. But words like “take off” “cast off” “put off” “remove” and “put on” …sound to me like “taking off” of a thing - “casting off” a thing—“putting off” a thing —“removing” a thing and “putting on” another.

that's because we need to make a choice ONCE we are saved. to react to Gods leading..

But if we are still condemned. non of that matters does it?

A person on death row can put on a new face. change his ways, But he is still condemned. Unless someone pays the price on his behalf (this is called redemption)

Your on death row. Everyone is. The penalty of sin is death. How many death sentences do we have against us?

You can put on a new man, Carry some cross all you want, be removed or saved from evil all you want, but if your still on death row, you will still suffer the ordinances you are charged with.

the penalty of sin is death, but the gift of God is life. The same life Jesus promised in John 3, that whoever believes will never die but live forever.

the same life that Jesus said those who do not believe will not have, as they are still condemned.. On death row.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

To change clothing
Do you remove your old clothes to put on new clothing?
Or do we put the new over the old? Point is … “changing” clothing is not old clothing turning into new clothing. But “changing” is removing and “changing” into something else.

God is the one who washes us and makes us whiter than snow. He clothes us in his righteousness.

Like I said, if your in a condemned state you can try to put on whatever clothes you think you need to wear. Your still in a condemned state