What happens when there's some kind of conflict??
Read my other post to you.
Happy waffling!
Good night.
HOW ARE WE MADE IN GOD'S IMAGE?
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Read my other post to you.
Good night.
Great point Pearl.
Just one thing...
Jesus had a body.
Do you think God Father has a body?
The bible teaches that He is spirit.
I think you meant Jesus (who is God).
Must go.
'night
Jesus the physical body, God the intellect and then the third part the Spirit.
No problem have a good evening GodsGrace
It say here also
Ezek 14:14 Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.
And yet we see one of them confessing his sin here
Daniel 9:20 And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;
So I don't think its speaking of them as being without sin
The doctrine of the resurrection comes right out of the Psalms. They said God had to fulfill the second Psalm (Psalm 2:7) in Acts 13:33 which pertains to the resurrection of Jesus Christ not to mention his priesthood in Psalm 110:1-4
You just wait on these, thats all. There are quite a few of those. I typically go with what I can build upon and let those grow while setting aside some others I cannot yet, only to return to them later. Sometimes I do that a few times. I have quite a few of things set aside to take up later. Because sometimes I can work them out and some I cannot yet. Just wait on Him for them. I don't stress over it, or need to have all my questions answers immediately, sometimes gotta wait.
Thanks! Good night!
No definitely not. Everyone has sinned except for Jesus.
Noah, Abraham, David they sinned....this is not why I mentioned them.
I did so because the bible states that they were righteous men...
for instance:
Genesis 6:9
9This is the account of Noah and his family. Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked faithfully with God.
Righteous does not mean that someone did not sin. It means that he is right with God. That's all righteous means. Noah was without blame just as we are without blame because we have sinned but we ask forgiveness and move on.
So if Genesis 6:9 is correct and Romans 3:10-12 is correct, the bible would be contradicting itself. So we must find a solution to this dilemma.
Romans 3:10-12
10as it is written,
“THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
11THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
12ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,
THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.”
Romans 3:10 begins with AS IT IS WRITTEN....this means it's referring to the OT.
In this case it would be Psalm 14:1-5.
So we need to go back there and find out what was meant in Psalm 14.
This will solve the problem....the bible cannot contradict itself.
Amen to that!
So, yes, the OT must line up with the NT somehow.
Sometimes it's very literal...sometimes it's a foreshadowing of something...sometimes it's poetic writing.
There's a lot to know about the OT which is why I feel so ignorant of it...
Seems like you're interested, so I'll post the following link -
Psalms | Yale Bible Study
yalebiblestudy.org
@GodsGrace
What happened to man when he disobeyed God?
But God, the Master Potter, was to remake the marred man into another new vessel... [the new man]
Yes, and so Jesus was sent...
What happened to man when he disobeyed God?
| Ge 3:24 | So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. |
But God, the Master Potter, was to remake the marred man into another new vessel... [the new man]
| Jer 18:4 | And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it. |
Yes, and so Jesus was sent...
| Joh 17:11 | And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. |
| Joh 10:10 | The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. |
| Joh 3:3 | Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. |
| 2ti 2:20 | But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. |
| 2ti 2:21 | If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. |
| Eph 4:21 | If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: |
| Eph 4:22 | That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; |
| Eph 4:23 | And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; |
| Eph 4:24 | And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. |
| 1jo 3:1 | Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. |
| 1jo 3:2 | Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. |
Ok....
Since you stepped into it....
And it's along the lines of the subject at hand.
First some seemingly disconnected information but then I will connect it.
5th commandment key word here is "honor".
Which the Hebrew word means "heavy" or burden as in give gravity or weight.
Then there is no word for great grandfather in Hebrew or even grandfather....it's just Father or Mother....
Then there is an expectation of this commandment to be read and agreed to (it is a part of a legal contract between Israel and God) that this commandment will be agreed to by adults...
Not children underage of contractual ability.
This commandment does not command Love. Only what is physically observable is ever discussed (for legal purposes) in this contract.
Disobedient children were to be stoned to death to purge the evil from among themselves. (Kids obeyed when spanking was applied because if they refuse to obey after a spanking, stoning was next)
So....
Because Abraham and Sarah had a friendship with God....and you had as a name for your tribe one of the sons of Jacob....you HONORED your forefathers and mother's.
(Institution of Caste based society)
You gave weight as a life burden to your family heritage. You lifted these people up as your role models by modeling your life after the life model these people set before you....and as a result you were recognized as a Child of Abraham's and worthy of the Inheritance God promised Abraham....as in the "Promised Land".
And as a result you were to live a life worth honoring by your family....and take seriously the raising of your children so that they honored you as you honored your "parents". Which in turn gives you the love of the children you really wanted all along. (Do not anger your children....no being hypercritical or lax in discipline)
But basically you were to raise up children to be just like you....little images of yourself as you were an image of your father. (And mothers) And as such you behaved as a friend of God would.
Now today....
(Honor means heavy/burden)
Jesus said in Matthew 11:25-30.
At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. 26 Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.
27 “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light
so now we have a dissolution of the Caste System and of joining Abraham and Sarah worship of God and a "second Adam" to follow in Jesus....who calls us friends. Without the "honoring/burden" of following anyone but Jesus....no more traditions, procedures, or family qualifications are needed or required.
Priesthood of every believer.
PS...."Christian" is Latin for "little Messiah" meaning we act like Jesus.
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We are made in God's image by having a God-given soul, having a mind/will/emotions just as God has, however we ourselves are not God, and we can't make God in our own image. We are also made in God's image by his perfect masculinity, and feminity, and thus we have Male and Female.
Isaiah 55:
8 “For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” declares Yahavah.
9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways
And My thoughts than your thoughts.
10 For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven,
And do not return there without watering the earth
And making it produce and sprout,
And providing seed to the sower and bread to the eater;
11 So will My word be which goes out of My mouth;
It will not return to Me empty,
Without accomplishing what I desire,
And without succeeding in the purpose for which I sent it.
Isaiah 55:
8 “For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” declares Yahavah.
9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways
And My thoughts than your thoughts.
10 For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven,
And do not return there without watering the earth
And making it produce and sprout,
And providing seed to the sower and bread to the eater;
11 So will My word be which goes out of My mouth;
It will not return to Me empty,
Without accomplishing what I desire,
And without succeeding in the purpose for which I sent it.
Maybe defining image and likeness of God will help.
Those two definitions inform the person's understanding and subsequent answer.
Those two definitions inform the person's understanding and subsequent answer.
I gave you a LOVE because I love how you explained everything regarding the relationship between parents and children in the OT.
I do want to disagree however, with the idea that today we are following Jesus and not our parents. I hope I haven't misunderstood you John.
When I give kids lessons on the difference between love and honor I make it a point to explain that even if we don't LOVE our parents we still must HONOR our parents. This is a difference that is lost in today's society. To honor means to give respect to our parents even if we think they don't deserve it. It means to care for them and to speak well of them to others...it means not denigrating them in any way - especially to outsiders (of the family).
In a proper situation - which maybe does not exist anymore - children SHOULD follow in the footsteps of the parents. Of course, this would entail that the parents are persons worthy to be followed: People with moral values, civil attitudes toward their neighbors, and, yes, maybe even a touch of spirituality.
So, yes. we don't bring our children to the edge of town to let our neighbors stone them when they misbehave....but at the time of Moses order had to be restored after 400 years of slavery...but the 10 commandments will never be abolished - and honoring our parents is one of those commandments.
Sometimes honor can be a weight...but it's a weight that must be accepted by children.
(to reasonable degrees of course -).
Hi MatthewG
Yes, agreed. We are made in God's image by ATTRIBUTES, not because we are little gods.
This was spoken of, I know you can't read each and every post.
So, yes, Isaiah 55 is correct of course. We will never fully know God, but do you agree that we can know Him enough to know SOMEWHAT what He is like and that we can know HOW He wants us to be?
Hi Amadeus! Good to see you around.
Great post! There's not too much to add to it...it's complete.
I love the part about how God h as given to man a second chance...this is how much He loves His creation; and yet we hear some say that God only loves certain persons; He loves everyone, but everyone does not love Him back. He hates sin...not people.
And re the New Man...yes, I'd say that this New Man has the attributes of God in a more perfect way than do the unsaved. This is because we're aware of God and wish to follow Him.
How would YOU explain it Pepper?
To most Christians image means to be made, in some way, like God.
We see an image of ourselves in a mirror, and we see back some things in us that God ALSO has....
Likeness also means that you're like another person...you're the same as they are in some way or other.
How do YOU think we're made like God? What did He give to us that is also present in Him?
IMAGE
im•age /ˈɪmɪdʒ/ n. [countable]
- a visible representation of a person, animal, or thing:an image of dark, dismal high-rises in the distance.
- Opticsan optical appearance of an object, as one produced by reflection from a mirror, etc.:The lens takes the image and focuses it on the film.
- a mental representation;
idea;
conception:a clear image in the mind. - form;
appearance;
semblance:created in God's image. - copy:That child is the image of his mother.
- a general opinion of someone or something, as of a candidate, etc., esp. when achieved by advertising:The company's image needed improvement.
- the perfect example or type of something:Biting his nails and pulling at his hair, he was the image of worry.
- Rhetorica figure of speech used to describe something.
LIKESNESS
- like•ness (līk′nis),n.
- Fine Arts representation, picture, or image, esp. a portrait:to draw a good likeness of Churchill.
- the state or fact of being like:I can't get over your likeness to my friend.
- the semblance or appearance of something;
guise:to assume the likeness of a swan.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
I guess God sees something of Himself in us.
Darned if I know what it is, though.
God said it, not me.
Darned if I know what it is, though.
God said it, not me.
Works both ways Lambano.
WE see something of ourselves in GOD.
To sum up we could say that God gave us the following qualities which HE also has:
MENTAL:
Rationality
Intellect
MORALITY
Conscience
Justice
Goodness
SOCIAL
Fellowship
Family
Love
Relationship with God *
Not sure in which category this belongs...but it certainly belongs in one.
I agree with the above, but you are aware that Catholics make concrete images inclusive of an image of Jesus and basically say, "Look! that's him, that is what Jesus looked like" (as far as his outward form goes). When we know also when he appeared to them again as Mark 16:12 tells us in "another form" and they did not reccognize him. These, which literally knew him in the flesh in that form. In 2 Cr 5:16 Paul (who walked not with Jesus literally in the flesh) as the others did, tells us, " Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. So "knowing no man", not even Jesus after the flesh from henceforth.
I would include "concrete figures" of Jesus as part of knowing someone after the flesh because all you will get from looking at one is someones outward form anyway (as far as ones appearence after the flesh goes).
I believe Jesus Christ's (his inward person) is where the image of THE INVISIBLE God is. Afterall He is the INVISIBLE (not visible) God. So someone could see God (and/or not see him at the same time) such as in Jesus Christ. One might see Jesus (after the flesh) and yet miss the invisible God (in him). This is about his INWARD image (or the unseen person) which one can know as Jesus points out to Philip. Which has nothing to do with any external image (after the flesh) but knowing his person. If I mashed that out in words correctly, sometimes I get brain freeze.
He is come in the flesh (but is not to be known after the flesh)
John 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him,
Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip?
he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
He is the express image of his person (Heb 1:3)
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also:
and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Which plays right into (the verse posted above)
2Cr 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
Jesus Christ (who come in the flesh) is the image of "the invisible" God (who we are not to know after the flesh)
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person
I gotta lay that out better, but thats how I see it in a nutshell according to these verses which speak more alone those lines.
As far as we being transformed into his image by the Spirit and beholding his glory and transformed into his image (versus beholding our own natural face). There is mention of this in James and 2 Cr
For example here
James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
James 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass
In contrast to beholding te glory of the Lord and being changed in the same image here
2 Cr 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
Edit typo
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I find it interesting that all populations believe Jesus looked like their kind.
Italians like a light haired Jesus with blue eyes. Franco Zeffirelli, the director of Jesus of Nazareth (my favorite movie about Jesus) picked an Italian boy with bright blue eyes to play the 12 year old Jesus....I was taken aback.
But I think we humanly need something to think of when we think of God. I wonder what the OT believers imagined God to look like.
Of course God is spirit and who knows what this looks like....
I believe it's in Isaiah where he says that there was nothing about the Son of Man that would bring attention to him (in a physical sense).
True. The disciples on the road to Emmaus did not recognize Jesus, but scripture states that it was because they were not meant to recognize him...or maybe they had just heard of him and didn't know what He looked like. They DID recognize Him when He broke bread with them at their home.
I'd say this is true for Mark 16:12
2 Cor 5:16 Yes. We're not to look at persons on the outside, but on the inside...just as we're to look at Jesus for His INNER qualities...how He looked on the outside is irrelevant -and maybe this is another reason why the disciples did not recognize Him....He wanted them to know Him by the BREAD THAT HE OFFERED!
I'd say that Catholics also look at the INSIDE, INTERIOR life of Jesus. I don't think there's any difference between how a Catholic views a statue of Jesus or how a Protestant does. It's just a statue...a symbol.
Amen. @Pearl in post no. 63 made an interesting observation:
Jesus is the Body
God is the intellect
The Holy Spirit is the spirit
We could say it's the 3 parts of God and the 3 parts of man.
I think you've expressed this very well.
Your most important points IMO:
Jesus is the image of God.
It's the INTERIOR of Jesus that we are to emulate.
Amen.
The thing is what we tend to think we need is often not provided or promoted by God as something to that effect, for example, making images.
Personally, I think the images hindered me and not helped, you could not know Jesus or the Father through cement images crafted by men. The Godhead included as Paul said,
Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
Yeah, that image is often not the one on religious displays, its often a handsome face gentleman. And if you put all the Jesus images into a police lineup and they would all be considered different men (not the same).
Who knows whose image you are actually bowing down before.
This one here always reminded me of Sylvester Stallone lol
Yes, before then no, so I dont think outward images (since he stood there as one) could be of any help
No stones being turned to bread here.
Paul does call these things graven images, they can be figures such as the brazen serpent which was destroyed by Hezekiah because they burned incense to it. From what I understand the EO calls the Brazen serpent an "icon" and justify the censing of icons (when it was destroyed because they did that).
Sometimes its like calling adultery "an affair" changing the words of things that are graven art and mans devivce. In Christ was the fulness of the Godhead and says we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. I would think that would include Jesus Christ.
The LORD is shown as having a soul, and I did not see that
Psalm 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul (nephesh) hateth.
And here is the LORD's soul and spirit mentioned here
Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul (nephesh) delighteth; I have put my spirit (ruwach) upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
And the LORD making the soul of Jesus (in whom) his own soul delighteth an offering
Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul (nephesh) an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Then the same verse compared between OT and NT
OT Hebrew
Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect,
in whom my soul (nephesh) delighteth; I have put my spirit (ruwach ) upon him:
he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
NT Greek
Mat 12:18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen;
my beloved, in whom my soul (psyche) is well pleased: I will put my spirit (pneuma) upon him,
and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
Also, did God have a physical body when he created man in his own image?
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