Homosexuality: Wrong or Right?

[TinMan]

And you think personal attacks against the ‘disgraced’ researcher invalidates the legitimate work by him and others.

What makes his research legitimate? Does fabricating over 1,500 survey responses qualify as legitimate?

Just a question for you; IF there was science out there showing how the homosexual life style was harmful, would you stop advocating for it on those grounds?

Junk science or actual science?

 

[amigo de christo]

I like this, I really do. I just wish it sounded more like "righteousness vs. sin" than "us vs. them."

.

Sorry barnes but you done bought the party line . Warn i shall and continue to do so i will .
Frankly i long ago figured out no matter what i say most will resist it and will call me pharisee or whatever .
That was about twelve years ago . Guess what barney , IT AINT slowed me down a bit . IT wont either .
you see , not only am i prepared in CHRIST to be hated and misunderstood , but it simply dont matter to me
IF i have to suffer or even die for it . My goal is for the good of the peoples and it that costs me , SO BE IT .
You have a nice day now my friend . Do be encouraged . THIS lamb is TRENCHED IN my friend .
THE LORD HELP US ALL . cause what is coming will only get worse . IT wont just be words , IT WILLL Be real action
coming against the lambs .

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

at least horse hockey is good for something , like fertilzer .

That's true.... good for the garden!

 

[TinMan]

True. Also, the politicization of science extends to studying and considering data in support of a predetermined conclusion.

For instance, suppose you are a climate fanatic and spend $1 million dollars to show how bad the good life is ‘hurting’ the planet. Not only would you be disappointed when the study does not support that conclusion, everyone knows more research dollars will NOT flow to academia.

They say follow the science. The wise man follows the money - and Biblical principles.

And Paul Cameron does exactly this he creates junk science with predetermined conclusions to feed anit-LGBT politics

 

[BarneyFife]

How about to confront a false claim with evidence?

The Bible makes no false claims about homosexuality.

How about to find out the truth?

Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy word is truth.

And another reason to read is to discover the evidence that being the targets of hate and discrimination and rejection are the direct cause of the various mental health problems. It's not a function of belief it is the actual cause.

There is no valid evidence that being the target of hate and discrimination directly causes mental health problems. Otherwise, all of the apostles would have been fruitcakes.

Cognitive behaviorism also notes that external events change beliefs.

There is no such thing as "cognitive behaviorism."

Although I can hardly blame you for trying to make a legitimate mode of psychotherapy sound like a philosophy or a religion when it so effectively disputes your claims.

If you'd like to have a discussion about the scientific aspects of Ellis's (the second most influential psychotherapist in history) and Beck's REBT and CBT, I'd really like that.

You repeatedly tell a child that they are a sinful pervert and should live in fear and shame....they will believe you.

Perhaps, but only until their frontal lobe develops enough for them to correctly self-reflect. Then they can correct their thoughts and feelings and become mentally healthy. It's no picnic, but the alternative is a life of despair.

Besides, wouldn't it be better to just tell a child that the things that are being urged upon them as indicators that they are exempt from natural sexual functionality are not necessarily conclusive and to encourage them to embrace the preponderance of material, biological evidence?

Should we encourage them to deny their divinely assigned purpose to avoid hurting their feelings?

Excess in shielding children from hardships has been shown to weaken their sense of resiliency and ability to navigate life's challenges.

And reducing hypothetical situations to the lowest and most grotesque denominators as you've done here and constantly insist upon doing doesn't help to solve problems, but only exacerbates them.

The presence of evil doesn't justify compounding it by reactionary ideology.

.

 

[BarneyFife]

And Paul Cameron does exactly this he creates junk science with predetermined conclusions to feed anit-LGBT politics

Why kick a dead horse?

.

 

[TinMan]

The Bible makes no false claims about homosexuality.

And you are certainly well aware that false claims were made here.

Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy word is truth.



There is no valid evidence that being the target of hate and discrimination directly causes mental health problems. Otherwise, all of the apostles would have been fruitcakes.

The evidence is pretty conclusive...Over time the cumulative effects of experiencing hate and discrimination particularly when social and familial support is absent leads directly to mental health problems

There is no such thing as "cognitive behaviorism."

What is cognitive behaviorism?
Whereas strict behaviorism has no room for cognitive influences, cognitive behaviorism operates on the assumption that behavior is impacted by thoughts and emotions. Cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT), for instance, attempts to change negative behaviors by changing the destructive thought patterns behind them.

Although I can hardly blame you for trying to make a legitimate mode of psychotherapy sound like a philosophy or a religion when it so effectively disputes your claims.

If you'd like to have a discussion about the scientific aspects of Ellis's (the second most influential psychotherapist in history) and Beck's REBT and CBT, I'd really like that.



Perhaps, but only until their frontal lobe develops enough for them to correctly self-reflect. Then they can correct their thoughts and feelings and become mentally healthy. It's no picnic, but the alternative is a life of despair.

Besides, wouldn't it be better to just tell a child that the things that are being urged upon them as indicators that they are exempt from natural sexual functionality

You mean telling them they are unnatural, sinful perverts and should live in fear and shame.

But then what do you so when they develop enough for them to correctly self-reflect and correct their thoughts and feelings and become rejecting you horrible attempts to influence them?

are not necessarily conclusive and to encourage them to embrace the preponderance of material, biological evidence?

Should we encourage them to deny their divinely assigned purpose to avoid hurting their feelings?

Disgusting sinful perverts.

You know at this point it would probably be more humane to just smack the kid around.

Excess in shielding children from hardships has been shown to weaken their sense of resiliency and ability to navigate life's challenges.

And reducing hypothetical situations to the lowest and most grotesque denominators as you've done here and constantly insist upon doing doesn't help to solve problems, but only exacerbates them.

Lowest and most grotesque. I've come no where near

The presence of evil doesn't justify compounding it by reactionary ideology.

.

Good advice. I hope you take it.

 

[TinMan]

Why kick a dead horse?

.

He isn't dead and his fake claims are repeated often and defended loudly

 

[Jack]

Gays HATE Christianity but they LOVE playing the victims and leading gays to Hell fire, just like Satan.

 

[Wrangler]

The evidence is pretty conclusive...Over time the cumulative effects of experiencing hate and discrimination particularly when social and familial support is absent leads directly to mental health problems

‘experiencing hate and discrimination’ as you call it, tends to happen when you do something EVIL.

 

[Wrangler]

You mean telling them they are unnatural, sinful perverts and should live in fear and shame.

This is where it is at!

You think the way to stop living in fear and shame is to change society.

We think the way to stop living in fear and shame is to stop acting g in unnatural, perverted and sinful ways.

See the difference? Our way empowers you. Your way leaves you feeling powerless and as a victim when your choices are what is victimizing you.

 

[BarneyFife]

The evidence is pretty conclusive...Over time the cumulative effects of experiencing hate and discrimination particularly when social and familial support is absent leads directly to mental health problems

No doubt. But you're shifting the goalposts. Confused children need help. If they don't get it from family or friends, they get sicker.

And, no, not as in your magnification "subhuman" sickness that turns the sufferer into the disease itself.

All of the awful stuff you like to trot out can and do happen, but that doesn't mean they always will, and counterfeits of compassion don't erase the genuine article.

Adults can get help, too, btw.

What is cognitive behaviorism?
Whereas strict behaviorism has no room for cognitive influences, cognitive behaviorism operates on the assumption that behavior is impacted by thoughts and emotions. Cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT), for instance, attempts to change negative behaviors by changing the destructive thought patterns behind them.

Not a thing anymore. And let's not pretend that it was the same as REBT and CBT. Whaddya say?

You mean telling them they are unnatural, sinful perverts and should live in fear and shame.

No, I don't mean any such thing. That's part of your imaginary hell that every confused child is hopelessly sentenced to for being born to someone who knows God's purpose for human sexuality, as though it were impossible to believe homosexuality is evil and also be compassionate to one's own child.

Statements like this just betray a postmodernist obsession with inevitable despair.

Jesus saves. To the uttermost. He really does.

Good advice. I hope you take it.

Oh, then you admit that homosexuality is evil/wrong. Good to have that on record.

.

 

[TinMan]

‘experiencing hate and discrimination’ as you call it, tends to happen when you do something EVIL.

When he was 8 years old Gabriel Fernandez's (google him) parents observed his effeminate behavior and identified him as a homosexual. Over the next several weeks Gabrial was subjected to what I personally call hate and discrimination...and torture I recognize you will disagree. He was repeatedly asphyxiated, beaten with electrical wires bound, gagged and kept in a dog kennel. Burned with cigarettes, denied food for days in a row and when there was food he was forced to eat cat feces and rotting floor. If he threw it up he was forced to lick it all up and eat it again. When he tried to run out of the door he was shot with a BB gun. In the end he was thrown repeatedly against the wall until he went unconscious where his loving parent proceeded to kick and shake him. He dies of blunt force trauma to the head. The Autopsy revealed he had over 20 broken bones from this last beating and the coroner estimates that he was kicked in the head over 40 times.

Now i recognize you will view his parents as heroes, but can you tell me just what EVIL Gabriel did?

 

[TinMan]

This is where it is at!

You think the way to stop living in fear and shame is to change society.

I think no one should have to live in fear of someone like you.

 

[TinMan]

No doubt. But you're shifting the goalposts.

What goalposts have been shifted?

I mean aside from your goalpost shift when you dismissed a modest collection of research showing that experiencing hate, discrimination and minority stress over extended periods of time result in significantly higher instances of mental health problems and change the goal post with "There is no valid evidence that being the target of hate and discrimination directly causes mental health problems." You remind me of tobacco companies still insisting that there is no DIRECT evidence that smoking causes cancer.

And you moved the goal post again when you ignored the original false claim and the discussion and tried to derail things with "The Bible makes no false claims about homosexuality."

Confused children need help. If they don't get it from family or friends, they get sicker.

And you are back to saying LBGT people are sick.

Labeling them "confused" also helps to belittle them and diminish them

And, no, not as in your magnification "subhuman" sickness that turns the sufferer into the disease itself.

Labeling them "confused" is a nice way of diminishing, belittling and dehumanizing them.

All of the awful stuff you like to trot out can and do happen, but that doesn't mean they always will, and counterfeits of compassion don't erase the genuine article.

They happen a lot and dismissing that suffering isn't compassion by any stretch of the imagination

Adults can get help, too, btw.

Because they are sick

Not a thing anymore. And let's not pretend that it was the same as REBT and CBT. Whaddya say?



No, I don't mean any such thing. That's part of your imaginary hell that every confused child is hopelessly sentenced to for being born to someone who knows God's purpose for human sexuality, as though it were impossible to believe homosexuality is evil and also be compassionate to one's own child.

Statements like this just betray a postmodernist obsession with inevitable despair.

You are doing it right here, so not my imagination

Oh, then you admit that homosexuality is evil/wrong. Good to have that on record.

.

You keep posting how you want an honest forthright discussion...but then you post things like this.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

can you tell me just what EVIL Gabriel did?

He entertained evil thoughts of being gay... those thoughts came from the devil because God did not make him gay! Doing this is a sin before the Lord.

I don't believe he should have been beaten as the Lord never instructed anybody to do that to sinners.

 

[Wrangler]

Now i recognize you will view his parents as heroes, but can you tell me just what EVIL Gabriel did?

It is pathetic how you constantly deflect from the EVIL of homosexuality. Just because evil was done to homosexuals does not mean homosexuality is not evil.

 

[Wrangler]

I think no one should have to live in fear of someone like you.

It's not me or about me. Everyone should have to live in fear of God.


The fear of Yahweh is the starting point of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is the starting point of understanding.
Rev 9:10 (REV)

 

[Wrangler]

You mean telling them they are unnatural, sinful perverts and should live in fear and shame.

No, I don't mean any such thing. That's part of your imaginary hell that every confused child is hopelessly sentenced to for being born to someone who knows God's purpose for human sexuality, as though it were impossible to believe homosexuality is evil and also be compassionate to one's own child.

Barney, @TinMan is using a common and childish ploy in an attempt to escape judgment. It goes like this.

It seeks to excuse wrong doing on the grounds that it is not THAT bad. Even murderers and rapists use this tact. And homosexuality is 100% as bad as these.

Tinman hates the notion of being judged for the EVIL he promotes, supposing judgement itself is evil and I suppose to all who are judged, it feels evil to them. I read a disturbing verse in Jeremiah the other day that ought to shake us all to the core for we know there can be no escape.


For Adonai-Tzva’ot, who planted you,
has decreed evil for you.
Jeremiah 11:17 (CJB)

 

[BarneyFife]

What goalposts have been shifted?

The ones where you keep adding (like lack of social and family support) to what it takes to cause mental illness in children who are confused about human sexuality...

And taking away specific adverb/adjective descriptors like direct(ly) as in:

a modest collection of research showing that experiencing hate, discrimination and minority stress over extended periods of time result in significantly higher instances of mental health

Why doesn't this say "is a/the direct cause of mental illness?"

Because you're shifting the goalposts.

--------------------------------------------

I mean aside from your goalpost shift when you dismissed

And you moved the goal post again when you ignored

I'm pretty sure that outright dismissing and ignoring have nothing to do with goalpost shifting, but I will give you the point for the little swerve I did regarding the "false claim/derail" business if you'll just please stop whining about it.

And you are back to saying LBGT people are sick.

We're all sick. The thing to do is to get better.

When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

They happen a lot and dismissing that suffering isn't compassion by any stretch of the imagination

I agree, but I'm not dismissing them, except in your imagination.

If I'm not mistaken, "but that doesn't mean they always will" allows for up to 99.99999+% of eventuality, and even if those heinously incorrect responses to the initial problem happened in every single case, the correct solution to the initial problem would still be the same.

You keep posting how you want an honest forthright discussion...but then you post things like this.

I'm sorry. I take it back. I keep forgetting that turning people's words back on them is only okay when you do it.

And, speaking of "honest forthright discussion," it sure would be nice if you were to come up with something that broke free from the fairness/incredulity/projection template. It's really a very emotionally immature look. Just sayin'.



.