Here is why, as an Adventist, I believe America is in Trouble.

[ewq1938]

It's really funny that before Christ died He expanded the Law--He who has hate in his heart commiteth murder, and he who lusts after a women doth commit adultery in his heart. I have absolutely no clue as to why He took the time if the Law was finished. It was the ceremonial law that was finished.

It was all finished. A new covenant and a new law was coming.

Now He gives two commands love the Lord, and love thy neighbor. The 1st 4 commandments show love to the Lord and the 2nd six show love to your neighbor. And these two commands given aren't new.

This is before the new law and new covenant which came when he died.

I have no clue why folks have a problem with some of us keeping Sabbath.

We don't care what you do or keep but the belief that those who don't do this as you do aren't saved and will (or have) the MOB is what others have a problem with.

 

[BarneyFife]

We don't care what you do or keep but the belief that those who don't do this as you do aren't saved and will (or have) the MOB is what others have a problem with.

Who is "we?"

Why do these "others" have a problem with an alleged universal belief that is actually just the rare sentiment of a fringe minority?

Relieve your mind and do a search for the words "Sabbath" and "unsaved" or "hell," etc., on this web site and you'll see that nearly all the hits come from Sabbath objectors accusing Sabbatarians of this nonsense and that you are concerning yourself with virtually nothing but a straw man argument and perhaps a bit of expression from latent gnawing consciences stemming from the nagging notion that their might actually be Ten Commandments instead of nine, after all.

If what you say is true and the Ten Commandments were included in "It was all finished" then you have nothing with which to trouble yourself.

This thread is about Adventist eschatology and yet the Sabbath objectors flock in like moths to a flame.

Methinks thou doth protest too much.

Luke 9
49Now John answered and said, “Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow with us.”
50But Jesus said to him, “Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us is on our side.”


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[Brakelite]

We don't care what you do or keep but the belief that those who don't do this as you do aren't saved and will (or have) the MOB is what others have a problem with.

Nope. The problem we have is with those such as yourself and a not so few others who have only a superficial understanding of what we actually believe, and base your prejudices on half-baked lies, false conclusions, and ignorance. Even worse, you are told of all this but rather than reading and inquiring further, you double down on your slanderous distortions and endanger and impede others who but for your impudence, would seek the truth .

 

[ewq1938]

Nope. The problem we have is with those such as yourself and a not so few others who have only a superficial understanding of what we actually believe, and base your prejudices on half-baked lies, false conclusions, and ignorance. Even worse, you are told of all this but rather than reading and inquiring further, you double down on your slanderous distortions and endanger and impede others who but for your impudence, would seek the truth .

Does anyone accuse you of having (or will have due to your practices) the mark of the beast? No? Well, isn't that nice!

 

[BarneyFife]

Does anyone accuse you of having (or will have due to your practices) the mark of the beast? No? Well, isn't that nice!

Does anyone accuse you of having it?

You couldn't possibly have it, because no universal Sunday law has yet been enacted.

Is it possible to accuse someone of robbery before anything has been taken? That would be ridiculous.

If you saw a warning in the news that parking on the side of the street you normally park would, starting the first day of next month, no longer be met with a verbal or written warning, but with stiff fines, would you consider yourself ill-used for the leniency you had heretofore been granted?


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[BarneyFife]

​

Therefore, to him who knows to do good ​

and does not do it, to him it is sin. (James 4:7)​

,

 

[BarneyFife]

Big Boy Johnson said:
One will need to abide IN Christ enduring until the end of their lives to be allowed in to Heaven

One cannot reject the New Covenant and Jesus as their High Priest... and expect to be allowed in to heaven.

One cannot have a relationship with the Lord if they reject New Covenant and Jesus as their High Priest View attachment 41399

If this is what "abiding in Christ" and the "New Covenant" is about, I'll pass:

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. (Galatians 3:28)

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[David in NJ]

The United States is the only nation in the world with a Constitution and Bill of Rights that distinctly protects the freedoms of minorities and individuals. One would think that of all people, American Christians would be at the forefront of those willing to defend it.
As Benjamin Franklin astutely said:
“When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that it's professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, that it's cause is a bad one”.

Thankyou Barney for bringing the thread back to its original topic.

including @Phoneman777 here:

Yesterday was my first day of work for 2024 and today is recovery - takes at least a day for me to recuperate from Lymes inflammation in my body.

 

[ewq1938]

Does anyone accuse you of having it?

Some have said or implied that it exists now in an early form. Most, at least openly say we will get the mark when the trib comes so it's the same difference. It's still a judgment and insult hurled by Sabbath keepers against all who aren't.

The mark has no relation to what day you go to church according to Rev 13. It's only a mark that controls who can buy or sell.

 

[David in NJ]

And there it is:

"YOU PEOPLE..."

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People of God?

 

[David in NJ]

@Phoneman777 @Brakelite @BarneyFife @Cassandra @ewq1938 @Big Boy Johnson

OK, i finally recovered from yesterday - sorry for the delay.

QUESTION: Did the LORD Jesus Christ re-establish the 4th Commandment or Did HE Fulfill it for us and therefore it is no longer binding upon the New Covenant Saints?

CHRIST said - Matthew 5:17 - “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

Under the OT, this is the 4th Commandment in it's FULLEST COMPLETION of Exemplifying God's Will to be done on earth as it is in Heaven.

And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you.
You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you.
Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord.
Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’ ”

The answer to the question is found here in Exodus ch31 and in the GOSPEL.

 

[BarneyFife]

QUESTION: Did the LORD Jesus Christ re-establish the 4th Commandment or Did HE Fulfill it for us and therefore it is no longer binding upon the New Covenant Saints?

Neither.

The Ten Commandments are the earthly, human application of the eternal self-sacrificing, others-centered law/love of God.

Christ fulfilled it in that He never strayed from it and therefore is worthy to log that fidelity to our accounts if we agree to submit to Him for the spiritual heart change that brings our wills into harmony with His Law continually as we abide in Him by devotion in prayer, Bible study, and service.

This is a very simple concept and has no need of human revision, re-establishment, or philosophical skullduggery.

Obey and live; disobey and die.

The conditions of eternal life are the same today as they have ever been and will ever be:

Perfect obedience to the commandments of God

If it were not so then Christ died for nothing.

This basic understanding of the plan of redemption was understood by virtually all Christians before postmodernism and the Internet began blowing bats into everyone's belfries.


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[David in NJ]

Neither.

The Ten Commandments are the earthly, human application of the eternal self-sacrificing, others-centered law/love of God.

Christ fulfilled it in that He never strayed from it and therefore is worthy to log that fidelity to our accounts if we agree to submit to Him for the spiritual heart change that brings our wills into harmony with His Law continually as we abide in Him by devotion in prayer, Bible study, and service.

This is a very simple concept and has no need of human revision, re-establishment, or philosophical skullduggery.

Obey and live; disobey and die.

The conditions of eternal life are the same today as they have ever been and will ever be:

Perfect obedience to the commandments of God

If it were not so then Christ died for nothing.

This basic understanding of the plan of redemption was understood by virtually all Christians before postmodernism and the Internet began blowing bats into everyone's belfries.


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@BarneyFife says: "Christ fulfilled it in that He never strayed from it and therefore is worthy to log that fidelity to our accounts if we agree to submit to Him for the spiritual heart change that brings our wills into harmony with His Law continually as we abide in Him by devotion in prayer, Bible study, and service."

i really like this Barney and AGREE and you said it PERFECTLY

However 'Neither' would not be accurate because JESUS said: HE came not to destroy but to fulfill".

Barney says = "Obey and live; disobey and die." = TRUTH

Barney says = "Perfect obedience to the commandments of God" = 'OOPS'

Big 'OOPS' here Barney as no one can keep perfect obedience to the commandments of God.

Which brings us right back to the LORD who said: "I have come not to destroy but to fulfill the Law and the Prophets"

In the GOSPEL, the LORD carried with Him the 4th Commandment AND HE established it as PERMANENT & BINDING upon ALL the world.

Where did HE establish the 4th Commandment as the Eternal Law in the New Covenant?

 

[Phoneman777]

And.. if we do not obey, then the penalty is back on us.

Salvation is only applicable to those who abide IN Christ having turned from their sins to walk in agreement with Him.




That's hilarious! Nothing like a little SDA cult propaganda! Kool-aid anyone??? View attachment 41358
Funny how most followers of David Koresh were SDA peoples View attachment 41357

Maybe the SDA likes satanic nationalism since they reject Christian nationalism.

There's only God's side, or the devil's side to be on.

You’ve got a very narrow view of the truth - as thin as a joker in a casino deck, and taken together, your ideas amount to nothing more than a house of cards.

Everytime we show you where your interpretations result in Scriptural disharmony while simultaneously showing you how our ideas harmonize all the texts, you resort to mockery.

How about you lay aside the foolishness and simply explore the topics? I’ve shown you where “rest” in verse 9 is “Sabbatismos” unlike Paul’s exclusive use of “kataposis” in the previous 8 verses WHICH IS WHY THE PESHITTA translation “It is therefore our duty to keep the Sabbarh” is MORE than acceptable - and you like most pretend the elephant in the room doesn’t exist while stubbornly insisting “there’s no command in the NT to observe the Sabbath”.

 

[David in NJ]

Can't say I 100% agree. What Christ took away was the penalty for our lawbreaking, not our obligation to obey.

Does an 11th hour pardon from the governor grant the condemned the freedom to go out and continue breaking the law? The same law that condemned him before will condemn him again if he chooses to offend again.

"Now, if thou commit no adultery, yet thou kill, thou (the recipient of a pardon) art become a transgressor of the law".

Yes, Christians ought to be the most obedient of all when they consider how much it cost God to provide us the mercy of a second chance - His dear Son.

i am looking here at your post again as i really want to absorb all that you are saying as you have some very good things here.

Of course the BEST is this which you said: "Yes, Christians ought to be the most obedient of all when they consider how much it cost God to provide us the mercy of a second chance - His dear Son."

 

[David in NJ]

OK - Good Night everyone

 

[Phoneman777]

i am looking here at your post again as i really want to absorb all that you are saying as you have some very good things here.

Of course the BEST is this which you said: "Yes, Christians ought to be the most obedient of all when they consider how much it cost God to provide us the mercy of a second chance - His dear Son."

Thank you. For the record, I firmly believe salvation absolutely cannot be obtained by works or anything else except by faith and faith alone - no more than a death row prisoner can shine enough guard shoes or mop enough floor tiles to earn a pardon, but only by the unmerited mercy of the governor.

What astonishes me is that the same folks who recognize that the imperfect mercy of an oft crooked governor is not a license to continue breaking the law - fight tooth and nail to make the pure divine grace of God Almighty a OSAS License to Sin...and bristle with anger when confronted with the truth that such thinking is the result of a lack toward God which compels the adoring husband to stay true to his wife - love.

"Love is the fulfilling of the law" - not a OSAS License to Sin.

 

[David in NJ]

Thank you. For the record, I firmly believe salvation absolutely cannot be obtained by works or anything else except by faith and faith alone - no more than a death row prisoner can shine enough guard shoes or mop enough floor tiles to earn a pardon, but only by the unmerited mercy of the governor.

What astonishes me is that the same folks who recognize that the imperfect mercy of an oft crooked governor is not a license to continue breaking the law - fight tooth and nail to make the pure divine grace of God Almighty a OSAS License to Sin...and bristle with anger when confronted with the truth that such thinking is the result of a lack toward God which compels the adoring husband to stay true to his wife - love.

"Love is the fulfilling of the law" - not a OSAS License to Sin.

Thank you for the clarification as i was beginning to wonder about that = 'working for salvation"

Which is PERFECT for the conversation and subsequent discovery in the Holy Scriptures.

Have you reviewed Post #513 ?

 

[BarneyFife]

Big 'OOPS' here Barney as no one can keep perfect obedience to the commandments of God.

No "oops" at all

The Bible is full of instructions to be obedient and commendations of faulty people who are said to have done so—by God Himself.

The only reason people are said to be short of perfect obedience is that they all start sinning before they even know what sin is and sometimes fall from their customary loyalty.

We have Christ's fulfillment/perfection of obedience credited to our account, which in no way excuses us at any time from keeping the Law, the transgression of which is sin.

How much sin is excusable, Dave—exactly how much?

There is no way around the simple truth of the Gospel.

While we were without strength, while we were yet sinners, while we were the enemies of God, Christ died for us.

Romans 5—simple stuff

Mankind never existed without all Ten of God's Commandments, and it never will.

Have you read Psalm 119 lately?

Postmodern Christianity is so deluded that most modern translations call it something like:

Meditations on the Excellencies of the Word of God (NKJV)​

The word "word" occurs 42 times.

• "Law" - 25 times
• "Statute" 22 times
• "Commandment" - 22 times
• "Judgment" - 19 times

The implication is clear: People don't like to be told what to do.

Very few (especially modern/postmodern) translations acknowledge the emphasis of God's Law in the Psalm.

All arrows are aimed at the 4th commandment, anyway. Who are we kidding here?

I'm not allowing any bats into my belfry, Dave.


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[David in NJ]

No "oops" at all

The Bible is full of instructions to be obedient and commendations of faulty people who are said to have done so—by God Himself.

The only reason people are said to be short of perfect obedience is that they all start sinning before they even know what sin is and sometimes fall from their customary loyalty.

We have Christ's fulfillment/perfection of obedience credited to our account, which in no way excuses us at any time from keeping the Law, the transgression of which is sin.

How much sin is excusable, Dave—exactly how much?

There is no way around the simple truth of the Gospel.

While we were without strength, while we were yet sinners, while we were the enemies of God, Christ died for us.

Romans 5—simple stuff

Mankind never existed without all Ten of God's Commandments, and it never will.

Have you read Psalm 119 lately?

Postmodern Christianity is so deluded that most modern translations call it something like:

Meditations on the Excellencies of the Word of God (NKJV)​

The word "word" occurs 42 times.

• "Law" - 25 times
• "Statute" 22 times
• "Commandment" - 22 times
• "Judgment" - 19 times

The implication is clear: People don't like to be told what to do.

Very few (especially modern/postmodern) translations acknowledge the emphasis of God's Law in the Psalm.

All arrows are aimed at the 4th commandment, anyway. Who are we kidding here?

I'm not allowing any bats into my belfry, Dave.


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Brother Barney,

i can only go by what you said and what God says.

You said: "Perfect obedience to the commandments of God"

God says: "Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?"

No one has ever kept God's Law perfectly except One = the LORD Jesus Christ

Since we can never keep God's Law perfectly, God sent His Son to fulfill what no man could.
"While we were without strength, while we were yet sinners, while we were the enemies of God, Christ died for us."

The LORD'S will is to keep His commandments but not from the Old which was done away with but from Jesus Christ who gave us His Commandments, His Law of the New Covenant = the Law of CHRIST.

"Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter."

For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!