Here is why, as an Adventist, I believe America is in Trouble.

[David in NJ]

I love that you are asking these questions David. They are challenging for both sides of the discussion. You are showing an honest desire to understand truth, and for others to do the same. I commend you for being truly inquiring, and not stubbornly set in your preconceived ideas and beliefs.

Have you ever wondered about Romans 2:12,13? And how that might relate to Romans 3:31? And then consider harmonising Romans 8:2-4. I believe they all relate to the one and same law. The same law that is referred to in chapter 3 verse20, saying, “by the law is the knowledge of sin”. It seems to me that chapter 3 is telling us that we are all sinners, and the law is proof of the fact, while chapter 8 is telling us that full obedience is not only possible for those in Christ, but necessary for salvation. Note everyone...I am not saying obedience brings to the sinner justification.

Chapter 8 is giving us an ultimatum. Either we are in the Spirit, and righteous before the law and before God, or we are carnal, at enmity with God and not subject to the laws of God, and therefore standing in a state of guilt before God and man.

You've already been told that none of the above is authentic Adventist teaching. You aren't listening.

Post 476 does not DIRECTLY look at the scriptures you asked me to review but it does touch on it.

Tomorrow i will review Romans as you requested - Thank You Brother

 

[Phoneman777]

TRUTH - @ewq1938 "This is what happened to the law. It was not destroyed but it was completed so nothing else is needed from us because Christ took care of it completely. "
However - do not say nothing else was 'needed' otherwise there would not be a New Covenant with the Law of Christ

PART Truth - @ewq1938 "This is why most Christians don't rest, or avoid kindling a fire on Saturdays, because there is no longer law about it as it was finished and is done."

TRUTH - @ewq1938 -This is why most Christians don't rest, or avoid kindling a fire on Saturdays,

Part Truth - @ewq1938 because there is no longer law about it as it was finished and is done."
The only part that was done away with was the Saturday rest/no fire.

However, the Law of Christ demands that which was done away with has been SUPERCEDED by a New Law that is just as BINDING as the OT Law.

This is the Law that CHRIST established by fulfilling the Old and bringing in the NEW and BETTER Covenant.

As in the Old Law, the New Covenant Law of CHRIST still has the SAME = LIFE or DEATH, Blessing or Cursing but this time it extends to the whole world = GENESIS

The New Covenant Law of Christ establishes for us a BETTER WAY to LIFE and RIGHTEOUSNESS

But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law,
but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;

Can't say I 100% agree. What Christ took away was the penalty for our lawbreaking, not our obligation to obey.

Does an 11th hour pardon from the governor grant the condemned the freedom to go out and continue breaking the law? The same law that condemned him before will condemn him again if he chooses to offend again.

"Now, if thou commit no adultery, yet thou kill, thou (the recipient of a pardon) art become a transgressor of the law".

Yes, Christians ought to be the most obedient of all when they consider how much it cost God to provide us the mercy of a second chance - His dear Son.

 

[David in NJ]

Can't say I 100% agree. What Christ took away was the penalty for our lawbreaking, not our obligation to obey.

Does an 11th hour pardon from the governor grant the condemned the freedom to go out and continue breaking the law? Or, should the governor's mercy motivate him to go out and be the most obedient citizen out there, seeing that he's gotten a second chance he didn't deserve?

Yes, Christians ought to be the most obedient of all when they consider how much it cost God to provide us the mercy of a second chance - His dear Son.

The word 'obligation' is not in my Post but the ACTUALITY of it is there in BOLD.

As in the Old Law, the New Covenant Law of CHRIST still has the SAME = LIFE or DEATH, Blessing or Cursing but this time it extends to the whole world = GENESIS and Matthew 24:14 and Acts 17:22-31

 

[Phoneman777]

The word 'obligation' is not in my Post but the ACTUALITY of it is there in BOLD.

As in the Old Law, the New Covenant Law of CHRIST still has the SAME = LIFE or DEATH, Blessing or Cursing but this time it extends to the whole world = GENESIS and Matthew 24:14 and Acts 17:22-31

The reason for the many inventions which seek to remove the Christian's obligation to keep the Ten Commandments can be traced to Romans 6:14 and the incorrect interpretation "under the law". It does not mean, "not obligated to obey" - it means "not under the penalty of the law".

A speeding motorist who's pulled over by a cop is "under the law" - "under condemnation of the law".
If he repents and the cop lets him go, he's no longer under the law, but under "grace".
Does grace grant him permission to resume speeding? No, he's still obligated to obey or face punishment.

 

[David in NJ]

The reason for the many inventions which seek to remove the Christian's obligation to keep the Ten Commandments can be traced to Romans 6:14 and the incorrect interpretation "under the law". It does not mean, "not obligated to obey" - it means "not under the penalty of the law".

A speeding motorist who's pulled over by a cop is "under the law" - "under condemnation of the law".
If he repents and the cop lets him go, he's no longer under the law, but under "grace".
Does grace grant him permission to resume speeding? No, he's still obligated to obey or face punishment.

Including @Brakelite here,

i cannot respond tonight as i have to do some dangerous work tomorrow and need rest.

So i am not ignoring or evading your excellent Posts.

Good Night my Brothers in Christ

 

[quietthinker]

Here is why, as an Adventist, I believe America is in Trouble.​

Here is why as a NON Adventist, I believe America is in Trouble......
It leads the World in exporting hedonism under the banner of Liberation.

 

[Phoneman777]

Including @Brakelite here,

i cannot respond tonight as i have to do some dangerous work tomorrow and need rest.

So i am not ignoring or evading your excellent Posts.

Good Night my Brothers in Christ

Be safe bro.

 

[Brakelite]

Here is why, as an Adventist, I believe America is in Trouble.​

Here is why as a NON Adventist, I believe America is in Trouble......
It leads the World in exporting hedonism under the banner of Liberation.

Uh huh,yep, that too, along with a few other things of we wanted to make a list.

 

[BarneyFife]

Here is why, as an Adventist, I believe America is in Trouble.​

What people don't realize (and understandably so) is that if voices defending the true Sabbath and warning of the National Sunday Law to come in the future are silenced, so far from protecting the religious liberty that Sabbath objectors believe is violated by such warnings, what will result is exactly the opposite:

The actors working behind the scenes to institute Christian Nationalism (in an effort to stem the tide of commonly held evils such as abortion-on-demand and mass perversion) will, by overwhelming socio-political force, virtually sweep away their God-given freedom to worship Him as their own consciences dictate.

.

.​

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Can't say I 100% agree. What Christ took away was the penalty for our lawbreaking, not our obligation to obey.

And.. if we do not obey, then the penalty is back on us.

Salvation is only applicable to those who abide IN Christ having turned from their sins to walk in agreement with Him.

The Dark History of Christian Nationalism & The Sunday Law

That's hilarious! Nothing like a little SDA cult propaganda! Kool-aid anyone???
Funny how most followers of David Koresh were SDA peoples

Maybe the SDA likes satanic nationalism since they reject Christian nationalism.

There's only God's side, or the devil's side to be on.

 

[BarneyFife]

Big Boy Johnson said:
That's hilarious! Nothing like a little SDA cult propaganda! Kool-aid anyone???

Maybe the SDA likes satanic nationalism since they reject Christian nationalism.

There's only God's side, or the devil's side to be on.

One thing's for sure:

You couldn't be more right about that last bit.

I like your passive-aggressive ignoring and the clever quoting-without-quoting trick.

And who could've imagined you'd miss the whole point of my post?

​

.

 

[Jay Ross]

There's only God's side, or the devil's side to be on.

Ya right. The people come from both sides of the argument to argue within the grey areas of this debate. God is not interested in the rules both sides are presenting, rather God will judge us all by whether we chose to live firmly rooted within His Fertile soil.

The judgement is not about the "rules" we want to adhere to, but where we send our roots to get the nourishment that we need to have life, now and in the future.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

God will judge us all by whether we chose to live firmly rooted within His Fertile soil

One will need to abide IN Christ enduring until the end of their lives to be allowed in to Heaven

One cannot reject the New Covenant and Jesus as their High Priest... and expect to be allowed in to heaven.

One cannot have a relationship with the Lord if they reject New Covenant and Jesus as their High Priest

 

[amigo de christo]

One thing's for sure:

You couldn't be more right about that last bit.

I like your passive-aggressive ignoring and the clever quoting-without-quoting trick.

And who could've imagined you'd miss the whole point of my post?

​

.

under sie order of sie united inclusive we are one common ground world religoin the sunday law
will never come into effect . as it would offend jews and muslims .
Rather that which is OF ANTI CHRIST is already at work under the banner and names of common ground
unity , inclusivity , etc .....................

 

[Marvelloustime]

under sie order of sie united inclusive we are one common ground world religoin the sunday law
will never come into effect . as it would offend jews and muslims .
Rather that which is OF ANTI CHRIST is already at work under the banner and names of common ground
unity , inclusivity , etc .....................

 

[Jay Ross]

One will need to abide IN Christ enduring until the end of their lives to be allowed in to Heaven

One cannot reject the New Covenant and Jesus as their High Priest... and expect to be allowed in to heaven.

One cannot have a relationship with the Lord if they reject New Covenant and Jesus as their High Priest View attachment 41399

What does all of the above have to do with one's salvation.

Rule keepers will also be excluded, as well, you know.

I do not believe in a brand new (neo) covenant such as you do, but I am happy to believe in the refurbished (kainos) covenant that God offers us today and has been on offer since the time of the cross.

 

[quietthinker]

And.. if we do not obey, then the penalty is back on us.

Salvation is only applicable to those who abide IN Christ having turned from their sins to walk in agreement with Him.




That's hilarious! Nothing like a little SDA cult propaganda! Kool-aid anyone??? View attachment 41358
Funny how most followers of David Koresh were SDA peoples View attachment 41357

Maybe the SDA likes satanic nationalism since they reject Christian nationalism.

There's only God's side, or the devil's side to be on.

If you watched the presentation BBJ, you now have the information. Time will tell how the cookie crumbles. You will either go along with the masses or have a very painful time revising your understanding......an understanding you are now bidden to question while the waters are still relatively calm.

I will add....as a metaphor, I have been in a shipwreck situation on the open ocean; it is not something I would wish on anybody.

 

[Brakelite]

The United States is the only nation in the world with a Constitution and Bill of Rights that distinctly protects the freedoms of minorities and individuals. One would think that of all people, American Christians would be at the forefront of those willing to defend it.
As Benjamin Franklin astutely said:
“When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that it's professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, that it's cause is a bad one”.

Thankyou Barney for bringing the thread back to its original topic.

 

[Cassandra]

Well, in context he said fulfil in the sense of to finish something, the last one in your post. As far as the law goes, it was finished by Christ in that fulfilling. This means nothing more is needed to required by it. This is why Christians don't burn offerings etc that the old law demanded to be done. It was finished by Jesus. All of the law was, not just part of it.

This is why a new law was introduced, called the law of liberty or the law of Christ. It was new and wasn't the fulfilled law Christ spoke of.

It's really funny that before Christ died He expanded the Law--He who has hate in his heart commiteth murder, and he who lusts after a women doth commit adultery in his heart. I have absolutely no clue as to why He took the time if the Law was finished. It was the ceremonial law that was finished.

Now He gives two commands love the Lord, and love thy neighbor. The 1st 4 commandments show love to the Lord and the 2nd six show love to your neighbor. And these two commands given aren't new.

Looky:

Deut 6:5 "And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might."

Lev 19:18 “You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against any of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD.”
Both from the OT.

I have no clue why folks have a problem with some of us keeping Sabbath.

The hatred and vitriol against the keeping of or observance of the Sabbath in these threads, and the despising of those who promote such, is palpable

Boy, you are not kidding!!!

 

[quietthinker]

It's really funny that before Christ died He expanded the Law--He who has hate in his heart commiteth murder, and he who lusts after a women doth commit adultery in his heart. I have absolutely no clue as to why He took the time if the Law was finished. It was the ceremonial law that was finished.

Now He gives two commands love the Lord, and love thy neighbor. The 1st 4 commandments show love to the Lord and the 2nd six show love to your neighbor. And these two commands given aren't new.

Looky:

Deut 6:5 "And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might."

Lev 19:18 “You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against any of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD.”
Both from the OT.

I have no clue why folks have a problem with some of us keeping Sabbath.


Boy, you are not kidding!!!

ahhhhh, they're just envious cuz they are driven to work, work, work ....even while they sing the song of rest!