Patrick1966
Well-Known Member
The poster to whom you are communicating will interpret this verse to mean that Jesus lovingly KILLS all of his "enemies" and thereafter he does away with death.
Hellfire and brimstone has given way to eternal separation from God. - Why?
- Thread starter St. SteVen
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
The elect are all Christians.
I know people like to feel special but it kinda like the parable of the Vineyard we are the same.
God is not a respecter of persons
It looks like you are mixing a lot of things together to become a church of one.....No such church in the scriptures.
Dear Grailhunter,
Many are called out and enter the church but only a "few" are chosen to be saved from the "many". They are the Elect.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
Joe
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
"...chosen to be saved...sounds Calvinist to me.
A person chooses to believe in Christ...free-will.
A truly saved Christian is the elect.
Some sign up like a club but don't live the Way.
Meditation
Member
Well, the church people are stuck on their Dogma, refusing to consider scriptures contrary (or coming up with wild imaginings).
That puts them in a Class all by itself: Churchianity.
That puts them in a Class all by itself: Churchianity.
Dear Grailhunter,
Believing in the Doctrine of Free Will means that you are mixing "works" with faith. This is the sin that leads to death.
Also, the doctrines of Free Will and Hell come from the "another gospel" which the apostate church teaches. There is no truth in them.
Here is how one of the Elect are saved:
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
An Elect believer is saved because it was God's "will" for it to happen. The Elect believer's "will" plays no part in it because:
Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.
Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?
Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.
So you believe that a person "chooses" Christ from a supposed "free will" ability. God's Word says that is not possible:
Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Why do you believe you made a free will choice to accept Christ in light of what God's Word teaches? Aren't you getting your beliefs from scripture?
Joe
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
So far everything you said is wrong.
The scriptures say what they say but you can misunderstand them or twist their meaning.
Christians are all saved the same way and the first step is choosing to believe in Christ.
As he wills that all Men should obey him, so he wills that they should all be saved; but because there is an inseparable Connection between Obedience and Salvation, in such a way that one implies the other, so because of free-will all are not going walk the path of Christianity but go on their own way which will lead eternal damnation. In other words it is up us to choose Christ and we can choose to be good and do good the best we can. The power of salvation comes from Christ alone....It is up to us to walk the walk. We are not forced to do anything. We can walk the way to Heaven or we can walk the way to Hell.....again all choice....free-will.
Meditation
Member
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
Sheol: grave, hell, pit
Hades,in the Greek, the word Hades is used for Sheol, denoting a dark region of the dead.
Hades is the state in which all the dead exist. In the New Testament a descent to Hades may simply refer to someone's death and disembodied existence.
Sheol: grave, hell, pit
Hades,in the Greek, the word Hades is used for Sheol, denoting a dark region of the dead.
Hades is the state in which all the dead exist. In the New Testament a descent to Hades may simply refer to someone's death and disembodied existence.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
No
Back to the drawing board.
Why did the Apostles choose the Greek word for Hades....
Meditation
Member
Meditation
Member
(To the rest of you- it was the common Greek (which they spoke) word for the "unseen place" where bodies were deposited. There religious dogma took over.)
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Dear Grailhunter,
If God "wills" anything, it will certainly happen.
Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
When God is ready to save a person, He will send Christ to them and Christ will give them the Holy Spirit. This is the only way a person will confess that Jesus is Lord:
1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.
Once they have the Spirit, they can no longer reject Christ. No where in this process does a person's supposed free will come into play. They are saved solely because of the spiritual work of Christ and because it was God's "will" for it to happen.
Your belief in free will is making yourself out to be equal with God (2Thes 2:3-4 applies). God is the only one who has a free will. Everyone else's "will" is controlled by Him.
Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
God works all things to be in accordance with His "will" and not our "will".
Paul's conversion is the pattern for the salvation of the Elect (1Tim 1:16). Christ suddenly came to Paul on the Damascus Road and gave Paul the Holy Spirit of Promise. With that Spirit, Paul fell to his knees and called Jesus "Lord". Paul didn't ask for Christ to come nor did Christ ask Paul for permission to come. Christ came and gave Paul the Spirit solely because it was God's "will" for it to happen.
Salvation comes to mankind no other way.
You beliefs are those taught by another Jesus, another gospel and another spirit (2Cor 11:4). They come from the apostate church. The churches that the Apostles started all began apostate shortly after their passing. Nothing has changed in the church since that time and the wolves are still fully in control. As each new believer enters the church, they are quickly devoured by the wolves.
The apostasy of the church happened because it was God's "will" for it to happen. When a believer "falls away" and becomes apostate, they will experience their "day of evil".
Prov 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
So why does God do this:
Ecc 1:13 An experience of evil God has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.
It is a very humbling experience when the Man of Sin is revealed and we find that we are that man.
Joe
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
You are piecing together a concept that is nearly demonic. For certain a horror and mostly along the lines of a sci-fi monster flick. A being invades earth and makes everybody robots. They already have that one…The invasion of the body snatchers. As far as logic goes it makes no sense.....I am not saying that God could not do it but why would he want to? Turn all of reality into a puppet show. For one, it would be a really boring puppet show. And for what? What would be the purpose? What would it prove?
What is forced belief worth?
What is forced faith worth?
What is forced love worth?
What is forced worship worth?
If we are forced to be good, what is that worth?
Predetermined destinations of Heaven or Hell....
It is really too stupid to talk about. John Calvin was a nut!
And I have had to address it too many times on this forum….
If you want to talk about predestination….open another thread on it,,,,I will not be there….I can only take so much silly.
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Dear Grailhunter,
I am only teaching what God's Word proclaims as truth and I quoted many supporting verses which witness to it. However, it is up to God for a person to understand it and receive it.
I noticed in your last post that you only used human (carnal) reasoning to determine what is truth. I recommend that you use scripture instead.
2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Joe
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Is it carnal reasoning that God exists? LOL
Some people believe that if it is not crazy, it is not of God. Going on the assumption that we cannot understand God, so if a belief makes no sense it can be passed off as of God.
Cults are based on the Bible....generally the KJV.
Your belief that Christians are robots....is based on the Bible.
Those beliefs that deny that Christ is a God are based on the Bible.
Those that believe that Hell does not exist are based on the Bible.
Those that believe Christ is a UFO pilot are based on the Bible.
Those that believe Christ was homosexual because He was not married...is based on the Bible.
Those that believe that the prophecies in the book Revelation have already occurred are base on Bible.
But really are they based on the Bible? Can they really call themselves Christian?
If you try hard enough you can weave some really kondike beliefs from the Bible
The trick is to look for the Truth not the kondike.
My ministry is the Johnny Appleseed of Truth so I am strongly opposed to false beliefs.
Like I said, I have issues with silly so pack sand....and move on.
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Dear Grailhunter,
Just more of your carnal reasoning which will only keep you in darkness because:
Isa 55:8 My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Where is your faith to believe God's Word over your own reasoning?
Joe
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Ya your thoughts are definitely not God's thoughts and they are not Christ's thoughts and they are not the apostle's thoughts and are generally not Christian.
Watched some of this video.
My criticism of this approach is simply the value is analytical understanding.
The Lord declares from His position, and we can expand and honour and work out this declaration.
Our thought process is linear, and relies on going from one concept to another.
The difficulty is when we have to hold thousands of perspectives together and see the balance.
But this is the Lord, and in the end trust and love are the key to pull us through.
I know I am an emotional creature driven by models in my mind which make sense of this world is which I travel.
The pragmatic approach is finding how the Lords words work out, applying them and seeing their fruit.
No system is definitive and absolute, but walking in love and faith guide our steps through.
When Jesus says the Father will destroy the body and soul of some, then this is a prophetic statement of reality.
Judgement is an ultimate reference point, but only as a warning. When you drive a car on a mountain road,
knowing the sheer drop on one side just declares the finality of failure of following the road, it changes nothing about
the skills and mechanical operation of the car to keep it going in the right direction. So the warning is seek, listen,
find the place of Gods heart and follow Jesus.
Paul warned us not to judge or feel ourselves superior over others, but just to walk in love.
And often the disagreements in denominations are because of pain and anger inflicted from one group upon another.
And our certainties are often our defence against being wrong or failing, so we want to define the undefinable, and when
our structures are challenged to build them stronger. But step back and see both are right, often with different emphasis,
so the Lord is not going to divide over this but rather how each deal with the other.
Is a church service woe is me, I am undone, again or is it halleluyah I have been resolved to God, repented and made new
and finding victory and transformation each step I take, even in the stumbles and failures, still the Lords way holds true.
God bless you
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