HE CHOSE US

[GodsGrace]

Looks like you want to twist and pervert plain Scripture-that, or playing the Devils advocate.
And you want to severe predestination from God's salvation to mankind-deciding for God how He should, or should not deem fit to save pantas.

Predestination is one of several truths related to mankind's salvation. It is part of a theological pattern or series of related truths. It was never meant to be emphasized in isolation! Biblical truth has been given in a series of tension-filled, paradoxical pairs.

Denominationalism has tended to remove the biblical tension by emphasizing only one of the dialectical truths (predestination versus human free will; security of the believer versus perseverance of the saints; original sin versus volitional sin; sinlessness versus sinning less; instantaneously declared sanctification versus progressive sanctification; faith versus works; Christian freedom versus Christian responsibility; transcendence versus immanence).
 God's choice is not based on foreknowledge of human performance, but on His gracious character (cf. Eph. 1:7,9,11). He wishes that all (not just some special ones like the Gnostics or modern-day ultra-Calvinists) would be saved (cf. Ezek. 18:21-23,32; John 3:16-17; 1 Tim. 2:4; 4:10; Titus 2:11; 2 Pet. 3:9; 1 John 2:2; 4:14). God's grace (God's character) is the theological key to this passage (cf. Eph. 1:6a, 7c, 9b), as God's mercy is the key to the other passage on predestination, Romans 9-11.
 Fallen mankind's only hope is the grace and mercy of God (cf. Isa. 53:6 and several other OT texts quoted in Rom. 3:9-18). It is crucial in interpreting these first theological chapters to realize that Paul emphasizes those things which are totally unrelated to human performance: predestination (Ephesians 1), grace (Ephesians 2), and God's eternal plan of redemption (mystery, Eph. 2:11- 3:13). This was to counterbalance the emphasis of the false teachers on human merit and pride.

The verse is correct and do look up the preposition.

Get it?

J.

No. I don't get it.
Just like @David in NJ it seems that you're not making a plain and concrete statement but wavering from side to side.

What I asked, and which I don't see the answer above, is this:

In Ephesians 1:4
Is it a WHO that is being spoken of....
or is it a HOW?

Simple question with a simple reply required.

 

[GodsGrace]

Not my problem if you don't want to read the link, most don't.

J.

Because we don't come here to read links J,,,,
we come here to discuss.
You must surely be able to state what you believe!

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

The NT never refers to the elect as persons that were specifically chosen by God to be saved

This is funny, you posted this next comment just prior to the one above and contradicted yourself.

God's elect are two:
1. Israel
2. All saved persons

I think you just want to argue. Don't want to waste mine time with your convoluted perspective.

 

[David in NJ]

What do you think MAKE STRAIGHT THE PATHS OF THE LORD means?

EASY = Proverbs 30:5-6

Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

 

[GodsGrace]

@Johann

My post no. 49 explains Ephesians 1:4....

It's simple and to the point.

 

[David in NJ]

No. I don't get it.
Just like @David in NJ it seems that you're not making a plain and concrete statement but wavering from side to side.

What I asked, and which I don't see the answer above, is this:

In Ephesians 1:4
Is it a WHO that is being spoken of....
or is it a HOW?

Simple question with a simple reply required.

It is BOTH

Why are you unable to SEE in our FATHER's Word?

 

[GodsGrace]

This is funny, you posted this next comment just prior to the one above and contradicted yourself.

I think you just want to argue. Don't want to waste mine time with your convoluted perspective.

Do you know what specifically chosen by God means?
Apparently not.

Find out.

 

[GodsGrace]

It is BOTH

Why are you unable to SEE in our FATHER's Word?

Read post no,. 49 and explain to me why it doesn't mean what I posted.

This is how conversations are had....
Not by telling the other member they can't see something....

 

[Ritajanice]

Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight.

Amen!....thank you Lord that you have made my path straight, since submitting to you.


I have gone my own way to many times, I see that now...Praise your Holy Name for bringing that scripture to my understanding...heart revelation.

 

[Johann]

No. I don't get it.
Just like @David in NJ it seems that you're not making a plain and concrete statement but wavering from side to side.

What I asked, and which I don't see the answer above, is this:

In Ephesians 1:4
Is it a WHO that is being spoken of....
or is it a HOW?

Simple question with a simple reply required.

That has been answered and no, I'm not the one vacillating hither and thither.

Looks you want instant noodles, spaghetti, coffee to all the answers you ekballo randomly.

J.

 

[David in NJ]

Read post no,. 49 and explain to me why it doesn't mean what I posted.

This is how conversations are had....
Not by telling the other member they can't see something....

lolx100

There is nothing wrong in your Post #49 = It is what i have been telling you = It is BOTH

The TRUTH of the Holy Scriptures you posted in #49 says, LOUD & CLEAR = It is BOTH

Genesis my Brother

 

[David in NJ]

That has been answered and no, I'm not the one vacillating hither and thither.

Looks you want instant noodles, spaghetti, coffee to all the answers you ekballo randomly.

J.

i'm having a coffee right now!

Did you know what Yom Kippur, the LORD and coffee have in common?

Yom Kippur is for the evening,
Yum Cupper is in the Morning

 

[GodsGrace]

EASY = Proverbs 30:5-6

Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

Just as I thought.
That's not what it means and I'm sure you don't care to find out.
Good night.

 

[David in NJ]

Just as I thought.
That's not what it means and I'm sure you don't care to find out.
Good night.

i SEE that you like to correct God and say such things as: "That's not what it means....."

Return to the Feet of JESUS = Matthew 18:1-5

 

[Johann]

Here's Ephesians 1:4.
Let's see exactly WHAT is predestined.

Ephesians 1:4
4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him.

God chose us IN HIM.....
God chose that we would become saved IN JESUS....
God's plan was that man would follow Jesus and be saved.
IN JESUS we are saved.
Jesus said that without Him we can do nothing....John 15:5
We cannot be saved on our own but ONLY THROUGH CHRIST.

God predestinated that we would thus be holy and blameless before God
BECAUSE of our choosing to believe in Christ.
John 3:16
16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Jesus didn't say we should wait for God to save us because it was predestinated from the beginning of the world.
He said we MUST be born again - and then taught us HOW.
John 3:7
7“Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’

And here's HOW:
John 3:36
. 36“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”


Well then, the bible has a big conflict, doesn't it?
Why do you think the NT is lying?
What verses do YOU have that state that a name cannot be erased from the Book of Life
when I clearly stated verses that state that it can.

Impossible.


Eph 1:13 in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth—the good news of your salvation—in whom also having believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of the promise,
Eph 1:14 which is an earnest of our inheritance, to the redemption of the acquired possession, to the praise of His glory.

Question-

Where in Scripture will you find that once sealed you can become "unsealed" later?

5) "Ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise" (esphragisthete to pneumati tes epangelias to hagio) "With the Holy Spirit of promise." This seal is heaven's stamp of eternal ownership of the sealed property, 2Ti_2:19; Eph_4:30. If salvation could ever be lost, it would have to be after the resurrection of the body of the believer; for until the redemption of the body (the purchased (paid for) possession of every believer), one is sealed. See also Rom_8:23.

J.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Do you know what specifically chosen by God means?
Apparently not.

Find out.

Yes, elect means chosen!. Listen, it is okay for you to perceive very difficult concepts differently; God won't hold it against you. When you get to heaven God will explain many things to you that you got wrong.
But hey we can be paisans. I always wanted to visit Italy, Tuscany must be beautiful. Arrivederci!

 

[Johann]

i'm having a coffee right now!

Did you know what Yom Kippur, the LORD and coffee have in common?

Yom Kippur is for the evening,
Yum Cupper is in the Morning

I'm having one right now-09.25 PM here in South Africa and by the looks of it-have many more Yum Cupper's to get my bearings straight.

J.

 

[David in NJ]

I'm having one right now-09.25 PM here in South Africa and by the looks of it-have many more Yum Cupper's to get my bearings straight.

J.

Brother, we all have different gifts but the SAME FATHER/LORD/HOLY SPIRIT

i can be bold, brash even seemingly obstinate when i am LOCKED in on TRUTH which religious men often disregard unless it is spoken from another man whom they 'respect'.
This is not God's will for us but it is the result of the 'paper kingdom of men'.

But KNOW this, i love everyone on here and it does not change when we disagree = even STRONGLY disagree.

You both understand and SEE that "as iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."

Since Elohim said: "Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness",
so too we should submit one to another in the fear of God whereby His Word takes Precedent over our own words and thoughts."

What am i saying???

Example: On another forum someone said to me that "we must first understand the Bible."

To which i said: "You have it in REVERSE"

Hebrews 11:1-3
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.
3By faith we understand.....

SEE my Brother Johan, who brings tears of Joy to my heart when we speak to one another.
Even when we disagree and things can get heated............now the disagreement is only temporary for very soon we will be:
Face to face with our LORD & Savior and with each other!!!

SHALOM

 

[Johann]

Because we don't come here to read links J,,,,
we come here to discuss.
You must surely be able to state what you believe!

That gives me an edge.

Jesus is recorded as asking 307 questions in the Gospels. In contrast, he directly answers only three of the 183 questions he is asked. Just three. And on at least one occasion he does not know the answer to a question addressed to him (Mark 13:4a and 32).
5 Questions That Jesus Asked
1) “Who do you say that I am?” ( Matthew 16:15) ...
2) “What do you want me to do for you?” ( ...
3) “Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?” ( ...
4) “When I broke the five loaves for the five thousand, how many basketfuls of pieces did you pick up?”
5) “Do you love me?”
it is commonly estimated that Jesus asked around 300 to 307 questions throughout the four Gospels.

Some key insights into Jesus' questioning:

Mark’s Gospel contains about 67 questions from Jesus.
Matthew’s Gospel records approximately 109 questions.
Luke’s Gospel has around 90 questions.
John’s Gospel includes over 40 questions.
These questions serve various purposes, often provoking thought, challenging assumptions, or drawing individuals into deeper reflection on spiritual matters. Jesus used questions not only to teach but also to invite personal engagement, revealing His wisdom and the listener's heart.

In the Gospels, Jesus is often noted for answering fewer questions directly than He asked. Scholars estimate that Jesus directly answered only around 3 to 8 questions. Most of the time, He responded to questions by asking another question, telling a parable, or offering an indirect answer. Why? His method aimed to provoke deeper thought or challenge the underlying motives behind the questions posed to Him.

Kinda what I'm doing, and you-see how it works @GodsGrace?

Here are a few notable examples of direct answers Jesus gave:

The Greatest Commandment

Matthew 22:36-40 – When asked which is the greatest commandment in the Law, Jesus directly answered: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind" and "Love your neighbor as yourself."
Are you the Son of God?

Luke 22:70 – When asked by the religious leaders if He was the Son of God, Jesus answered, "You say that I am."

No instant noodles here.
Not being facetious, but you have already labelled me-so what's the point of further dialogue?

J.

 

[Johann]

Brother, we all have different gifts but the SAME FATHER/LORD/HOLY SPIRIT

i can be bold, brash even seemingly obstinate when i am LOCKED in on TRUTH which religious men often disregard unless it is spoken from another man whom they 'respect'.
This is not God's will for us but it is the result of the 'paper kingdom of men'.

But KNOW this, i love everyone on here and it does not change when we disagree = even STRONGLY disagree.

You both understand and SEE that "as iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."

Since Elohim said: "Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness",
so too we should submit one to another in the fear of God whereby His Word takes Precedent over our own words and thoughts."

What am i saying???

Example: On another forum someone said to me that "we must first understand the Bible."

To which i said: "You have it in REVERSE"

Hebrews 11:1-3
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.
3By faith we understand.....

SEE my Brother Johan, who brings tears of Joy to my heart when we speak to one another.
Even when we disagree and things can get heated............now the disagreement is only temporary for very soon we will be:
Face to face with our LORD & Savior and with each other!!!

SHALOM

Laila tov, ach-ad shenipagesh shuv b'shamayim im haAdon Yeshua HaMashiach.

Till our next moments of intense "fellowship"-only temporarily.

J.