Halloween Street Preaching

[bbyrd009]

satan's dialectic maybe? speaking in tongues might have a part, too, dunno. I just now finished the Abarim guy's new front page--which i gotta admit is out there--but he does imo have some great insight on why we reject "other," and for that matter why we speak in satan's dialectic imo, although he does not use the term.

my take was that basically its like a herd instinct survival deal, maybe combined with an ego thingy which is also more or less a survival mechanism i guess. Also a reproductive thing, so i guess highly ingrained?

i'm i guess a pretty pious guy when it suits me, find myself looking down my nose at them, but i like whores, basically. Or like a part of me does. And chicks dig jerks. And i guess it doesnt really matter that i wouldnt sleep with a whore now, nor that some chicks dont like jerks, like you might think, bc some whores are smart enough to be subtle and refined, and some jerks have manners, kinda deal?

ah, it's in here too, but the guy talks in theories, and mentions "evolution" which i guess most believers prolly wont like, if it helps any i'm a genious i guess and i dont get him about half the time, and the dust of the earth could be single cells for all you know, right? You can just sorta glide over any phrases you dont grok right away, he usually rephrases elsewhere anyway if you are curious enough.

And he keeps insisting that his def of evo is not Godless, and then imo goeson to explain how it is lol, like i said i dont get the guy quite often, quite often dont agree with him, but imo the point is less about absorbing facts and more about learning how to think in different ways.

or could just be knowledge brings sorrow isnt being read right,
(i might easily "know" something that is not true, like maybe "the dust of the earth=individual, single cells," and if i insist upon that to you sorrow will surely commence, or ensue or whatever?)
the fruit of the tree of knowledge, etc?
which Abarim also gets into on the front page,
"speaking your mind is the equivalent of taking a dump"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
since when we say "beliefs" we usually mean "about the ancient past, or the distant future," fwiw you might try this: "believe" that Yah instantaneously made Adam from inorganic dirt/dust, what you likely already believe. Easy right. Ok now "believe" that Adam was made over millions or billions of years from an evolution of single celled animalcules (which term i did not make up) that likely covered the earth alone at some point (and still btw make up like 90+% of the earth's biomass), which is i know a lottle but harder--trust me it was a lit harder for me too--but you could even just pretend for this exercise if you like, and now tell me, if you would,

what changed?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
point being you wanna know the truth, right? ha hell no you dont, the truth pisses you off no end prolly, but the truth is nobody knows. Even pisses off many scientists, even the ones who are aware of the Dunning/Kruger effect.

God knows what the reality is concerning this.

and that is the truth lol, right there, huh. We remember and even venerate Cassini, but who recalls the name of the scientist that revealed him to be an idiot to his posterity? Us, iow? And, why didnt we name the probe after the smart guy?

 

[Marymog]

Not exactly...I said that I believe that this is what the Catholic Church teaches.

If I am wrong about that then Protestants have been right for the last four or five centuries concerning the fact that the Bible takes precedence over Catholic doctrine...it turns out that the Catholic Church has been in agreement with Protestantism all these years.

Ummm.....you do know I can quote what you said and here is what you said: "The CC's doctrine specifically states that the pope's ex-cathedra statements (and certain doctrines of the church) are more authoritative than the Bible itself..."

You NEVER said "I believe".....You made a flat out statement....that IS what you said.....soooooo you are wrong once again.

BTW....Since the CC came before Protestantism then that means that Protestantism would have to either agree or disagree with the CC, not the other way around....You have twisted logic.

Keeping it real.....Mary

 

[bbyrd009]

I guess the Roman Catholics are actually the upstarts, broke away from the rest of "the church" in about 1000 A.D.? The term "usurped" springs to mind imo, once one groks the Councils of Nicea

 

[justbyfaith]

Ummm.....you do know I can quote what you said and here is what you said: "The CC's doctrine specifically states that the pope's ex-cathedra statements (and certain doctrines of the church) are more authoritative than the Bible itself..."

Then use the quote feature to do it, so that we can all go back to the quote in question and substantiate that it is an exact quote from me.

You NEVER said "I believe".....You made a flat out statement....that IS what you said.....soooooo you are wrong once again.

BTW....Since the CC came before Protestantism then that means that Protestantism would have to either agree or disagree with the CC, not the other way around....You have twisted logic.

Keeping it real.....Mary

What I was saying is that, the Protestants originated the concept that the Bible has authority over ex-cathedra statements and doctrines of the church...and the Catholic Church, by my knowledge, has been in disagreement concerning that for centuries.

Now if you want to speak for the Catholic Church and say that they have not been in disagreement with that...well I will take your word for it.

But I feel that it is common knowledge that the Catholic Church holds that ex-cathedra statements and church doctrine hold precedence over and above what the Bible teaches...

Simply because it is the contention of Protestantism that the Bible takes precedence...and the fact that there has been division between Catholics and Protestants over this for so long a time.

So then, why were you asking me to provide documentation for a statement that I feel is common knowledge?

Again, if you want to speak for the Catholic Church concerning this and say that they hold the Bible to be authoritative over church doctrines, I am all ears and will take your word for it.

There is more than one way to skin a cat.

You are asking for proof that the Catholic Church teaches the thing in question.

I say it is common knowledge.

So then, if you want to speak for the Catholic Church and say that what I believe is common knowledge is, in fact, a faulty understanding, well, I will take your word for it.

And if it is indeed the case, then we can go from here with my exhortation to you to be a Berean (Acts of the Apostles 17:10-11) about everything that is taught by the Catholic Church.

Because it would then be clear that the Bible has the authority and that the teachings of the Catholic Church are the teachings of men...and that therefore its teachings are on a lower level than the teachings of the word of the Lord.

 

[Marymog]

Because it would then be clear that the Bible has the authority and that the teachings of the Catholic Church are the teachings of men...and that therefore its teachings are on a lower level than the teachings of the word of the Lord.

Your theory makes absolutely ZERO sense. The teachings of the reformers (Reformation) "are the teachings of men". What you are saying is your teaching. Sooooooo what's your point?

 

[Helen]

Your theory makes absolutely ZERO sense. The teachings of the reformers (Reformation) "are the teachings of men".

"Teaching of man" ... anointed by the Holy Spirit to lead the church out of bondage, into Life.

 

[Marymog]

"Teaching of man" ... anointed by the Holy Spirit to lead the church out of bondage, into Life.

Hi BG,

Ummmm....If they were all "anointed by the Holy Spirit" then why did the HS tell all of them something different. Were they confused, are you confused or was the HS confused?

If Christians were taken out of bondage post Reformation then why all the different doctrines from the reformers (who all disagreed with each other) on what one must do to be saved?

Your theory doesn't work.

Curious Mary

 

[Helen]

Ummmm....If they were all "anointed by the Holy Spirit" then why did the HS tell all of them something different. Were they confused, are you confused or was the HS confused?

I dont often post to you because you always say the same thing over and over. You always drag up- " Why did the Holy Spirit tell different people different things"
I have told you before WHY!
Can't you hold a thought? Oh no, you just want to reject it all and not bother to think. You church tells you what to think.

If God wanted everything the same he would never have created a big red rose and a tiny violet ....all birds would be as same as each other...every tree alike .
Ive said before that Paul mentions it as the likeness of a body..not everyone is the eye, or the elbow, or the knee ...the Body of Christ is made up differently with different functions. Different emphasizes.

Not everyone is an evangelist. Some are teachers, some are 'given to hospitality' , some are givers, some are pastors. Some tuck themselves away and Pray.

NO, God is not a cookie cutter God ...It seems you would find that easier...but sorry, God, by His Holy Spirit , DOES speak different things to different people for different reasons ...and always for the furtherance of His Kingdom in growth and maturity.

The Holy Spirit gave Paul and different ministry than to Peter...

At 10 oclock-ish I said :-
Is water baptism necessary for salvation?

And here you are 3 hours later, asking once again your same old question..."why would God speaks to people ( or to denominations) different things? " ( and not all the same as the Catholic church teaches. )

 

[justbyfaith]

Your theory makes absolutely ZERO sense. The teachings of the reformers (Reformation) "are the teachings of men". What you are saying is your teaching. Sooooooo what's your point?

The reformers pointed to the fact that we are not to rely upon the teachings of men but to be Bereans (Acts of the Apostles 17:10-11) about every teaching that comes out of the church, testing it by the Bible.

 

[Marymog]

I dont often post to you because you always say the same thing over and over. You always drag up- " Why did the Holy Spirit tell different people different things"
I have told you before WHY!
Can't you hold a thought? Oh no, you just want to reject it all and not bother to think. You church tells you what to think.

Hi BG,

You want me to apologize for repeating the truth over and over? Neither you or anyone else on this forum has been able to explain to me why you think that the HS was guiding the reformers into the truth even though they all had different truths given to them by the HS. Once you can logically explain that to me then I will stop asking.

You, a person, tell yourself what to think and what you believe is the truth. What is wrong with me believing what the men of The Church (the pillar and foundation of truth) tell me is the truth?

I find it very condescending that you believe that I can't think for myself just because I accept what The Church teaches. I find it very condescending that you believe I can't hold a thought. It is also confusing since I kept repeating the same thought over and over again...but yet I can't hold a thought?

Mary

 

[Marymog]

If God wanted everything the same he would never have created a big red rose and a tiny violet ....all birds would be as same as each other...every tree alike .
Ive said before that Paul mentions it as the likeness of a body..not everyone is the eye, or the elbow, or the knee ...the Body of Christ is made up differently with different functions. Different emphasizes.

Hi BG,

When it comes to "sound doctrine" (2 Timothy 1:13, 1 Timothy 4:6, 1 Timothy 1:10, 1 Timothy 6:3, 2 Timothy 4:3, Titus 1:9, Titus 2:1, Titus 2:7) God does what everything to be the same. Even though we may all be different parts of the same body we should all work together, as the body does, to be one. That is why Jesus prayed that we may all be one (John 17:20-23).

Different flowers and birds have nothing to do with the truth of Gods word and sound doctrine.

 

[Marymog]

NO, God is not a cookie cutter God ...It seems you would find that easier...but sorry, God, by His Holy Spirit , DOES speak different things to different people for different reasons ...and always for the furtherance of His Kingdom in growth and maturity.

The Holy Spirit gave Paul and different ministry than to Peter...

At 10 oclock-ish I said :-
Is water baptism necessary for salvation?

And here you are 3 hours later, asking once again your same old question..."why would God speaks to people ( or to denominations) different things? " ( and not all the same as the Catholic church teaches. )

Hi BG,

I never said or suggested God is a cookie cutter God. What I have clearly said over multiple posts and multiple months is that there is, as scripture says, sound doctrine (which means there is a false doctrine). Soooooo since all the reformers taught a different doctrine on what one must do to obtain salvation then that means someone is not teaching a sound doctrine. Having a different ministry is not the same as having a different doctrine. I fail to see how you can equate the two.

I have one very simple question that may help clarify. Since you believe that the men of the CC are teaching a false doctrine, which means they are not being guided by the Holy Spirit, which man of the reformation was being guided by the Holy Spirit and teaching a sound doctrine?

Mary

 

[Marymog]

The reformers pointed to the fact that we are not to rely upon the teachings of men but to be Bereans (Acts of the Apostles 17:10-11) about every teaching that comes out of the church, testing it by the Bible.

Thank you.

Why did the Bereans search the OT Scriptures? Because they were the sole source of revelation and authority? NO!! They searched Scripture to see if Paul was in line with what they already knew—to confirm additional revelation. They would not submit blindly to his apostolic teaching and oral tradition, but, once they accepted the credibility of Paul’s teaching as the oral word of God, they put it on a par with Scripture and recognized its binding authority. After that, like the converts who believed in Thessalonica, they espoused apostolic Tradition and the Old Testament equally as God’s word (see 2 Thess. 2:15, 3:16).

If the reformers were "testing it by the Bible" then how did they all come up with different answers?

Mary

 

[Willie T]

Thank you.

Why did the Bereans search the OT Scriptures? Because they were the sole source of revelation and authority? NO!! They searched Scripture to see if Paul was in line with what they already knew—to confirm additional revelation. They would not submit blindly to his apostolic teaching and oral tradition, but, once they accepted the credibility of Paul’s teaching as the oral word of God, they put it on a par with Scripture and recognized its binding authority. After that, like the converts who believed in Thessalonica, they espoused apostolic Tradition and the Old Testament equally as God’s word (see 2 Thess. 2:15, 3:16).

If the reformers were "testing it by the Bible" then how did they all come up with different answers?

Mary

"...how did they all come up with different answers?"
An interesting question. It begs another question: What does the phrase "Go into all the world" mean to you? If it means what the typed words indicate.... constant global travel... what are any of us doing sitting in our living rooms? I doubt anything said on any page of the Bible was meant to turn us into cookie-cutter robots, all doing exactly the same thing as every other person who calls themselves a Christian.

Exactly as you just now made those words into what you, personally, feel they are saying to you, alone, (and rightfully so) thus do all of us personally "interpret" the various parts of the Bible we each independently read.

 

[Marymog]

"...how did they all come up with different answers?"
An interesting question. It begs another question: What does the phrase "Go into all the world" mean to you? If it means what the typed words indicate.... constant global travel... what are any of us doing sitting in our living rooms? I doubt anything said on any page of the Bible was meant to turn us into cookie-cutter robots, all doing exactly the same thing as every other person who calls themselves a Christian.

Exactly as you just now made those words into what you, personally, feel they are saying to you, alone, (and rightfully so) thus do all of us personally "interpret" the various parts of the Bible we each independently read.

Hi Willie,

I believe you are referring to Mark 16:15? If so we must fully quote it and put it in context. “Go into all the world and preach the Good News to everyone.

Putting that passage into full context I fail to see how it has anything to do with the subject at hand. What that passage refers to is that we are all to go and preach the good news to everyone. PERIOD. But what exactly are we to preach? Our own personal doctrine? Scripture has answered that for us already.

Scripture speaks of sound doctrine. If we are all preaching something different (have a different interpretation of Scripture) then we are not teaching sound doctrine: What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.

Individually we DO NOT have the right to personally interpret various parts of the bible. God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.... Do all interpret? (rhetorical) Scripture makes it clear that NO....all do NOT interpret. But we must all believe the same thing (consistent doctrine/beliefs/teachings) to fulfill the prayer of Christ so that the world may believe that He sent him.

Scripture tells us to avoid wolves in sheep clothing that do not preach sound doctrine. So, in a nut shell, Scripture teaches that we must all be one in sound doctrine otherwise men will go to were their tickling ears will take them being misled by other men which are ignorant, unstable and who distort Scripture. Christ wants us to all teach the exact same things. That is why he prayed that we may all be one in John 17:20-23. His prayer was NOT that we may all have one gift but one teaching....just like scripture says.

Bible Study Mary

 

[Willie T]

Hi Willie,

I believe you are referring to Mark 16:15? If so we must fully quote it and put it in context. “Go into all the world and preach the Good News to everyone.

Putting that passage into full context I fail to see how it has anything to do with the subject at hand. What that passage refers to is that we are all to go and preach the good news to everyone. PERIOD. But what exactly are we to preach? Our own personal doctrine? Scripture has answered that for us already.

Scripture speaks of sound doctrine. If we are all preaching something different (have a different interpretation of Scripture) then we are not teaching sound doctrine: What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.

Individually we DO NOT have the right to personally interpret various parts of the bible. God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.... Do all interpret? (rhetorical) Scripture makes it clear that NO....all do NOT interpret. But we must all believe the same thing (consistent doctrine/beliefs/teachings) to fulfill the prayer of Christ so that the world may believe that He sent him.

Scripture tells us to avoid wolves in sheep clothing that do not preach sound doctrine. So, in a nut shell, Scripture teaches that we must all be one in sound doctrine otherwise men will go to were their tickling ears will take them being misled by other men which are ignorant, unstable and who distort Scripture. Christ wants us to all teach the exact same things. That is why he prayed that we may all be one in John 17:20-23. His prayer was NOT that we may all have one gift but one teaching....just like scripture says.

Bible Study Mary

I can see why people here get fed up with your verbal gymnastics. LOL You twist and turn like a worm sliding down an icy mountain road.

The sentence in question would never have included the words "Go into all the world", if He had not meant for that to be an important distinction of where, or how, they were to be doing what He was about to instruct them to preach.

 

[Marymog]

I can see why people here get fed up with your verbal gymnastics. LOL You twist and turn like a worm sliding down an icy mountain road.

The sentence in question would never have included the words "Go into all the world", if He had not meant for that to be an important distinction of where, or how, they were to be doing what He was about to instruct them to preach.

Verbal gymnastics? I have been preaching the same thing over and over and over again. How is that gymnastics?

The sentence in question is, "...how did they all come up with different answers?" That has NOTHING to do with the great commission in Matthew 28 which is what you referred to.

Do you disagree with my statement that "Individually we DO NOT have the right to personally interpret various parts of the bible."

 

[Willie T]

Do you disagree with my statement that "Individually we DO NOT have the right to personally interpret various parts of the bible."

I certainly do. Many, many thousands of Fundamentalist, using their "revered and God Authorized" KJV, (facetiousness intended) conclude that Luke 14:26 tells us we must hate our entire families in order to be Jesus' disciples.
Your words, (quoted above), claim that since a certain group (be it those guys, or the Vatican guys) declare a passage means "such-and-so" — no individuals have any right to read it differently.
And I say that isn't so, since the Bible consistently and repeatedly tells us to make up our own minds, and to decide for ourselves about a variety of declarations made therein.

 

[Marymog]

I certainly do. Many, many thousands of Fundamentalist, using their "revered and God Authorized" KJV, (facetiousness intended) conclude that Luke 14:26 tells us we must hate our entire families in order to be Jesus' disciples.
Your words, (quoted above), claim that since a certain group (be it those guys, or the Vatican guys) declare a passage means "such-and-so" — no individuals have any right to read it differently.
And I say that isn't so, since the Bible consistently and repeatedly tells us to make up our own minds, and to decide for ourselves about a variety of declarations made therein.

Thank you for the clarification.

If you mean The Church when you say "group" then YES....I believe their is a "group" that decides. Just like what happened at the Council of Jerusalem. The "group" (The Church) decided WITH AUTHORITY what we were to believe. They were guided by the Holy Spirit. The individual Christians that thought they knew better were corrected by the Apostles in their decision at the Council of Jerusalem. That was the very first time The Churches authority was used to tell us "No, you don't have the right to interpret Scripture how YOU want to interpret it". Now one could say they were the Apostles, of course they would decide for the rest of us. But where does Scripture say once the Apostles died that that authority ended? Isn't what they practiced/did the example they were setting for all eternity?

How do we as Christians fulfill Jesus prayer in John 17:21 if we are all to "make up our own minds....about a variety of declarations made" in Scripture? Wouldn't that divide us instead of making us one? History seems to make it clear it HAS divided us.

How do we as Christians determine who is a wolf that has come in amongst us, not sparing the flock? Do we decide that as individuals?

Can you see why I don't understand why you believe what you believe? Scripture even asks rhetorically "Do we all interpret?"

Mary

 

[Willie T]

Oh well, maybe you will understand one day.