Since there is a Father and a Son, there should be an age difference.
The Father has no ancestors; the Son has a boatload of them.
God LAUGHS at the trinity
- Thread starter GEN2REV
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
- Status
Since there is a Father and a Son, there should be an age difference.
The Father has no ancestors; the Son has a boatload of them.
It’s pretty funny that manna means: what, or what is it? And Jesus says He is the true manna, or bread from heaven. And here everyone argues over who and what He is!
Like, when the manna fell and they said: it is manna,” what they were saying as they picked it up, held it and tasted it was really - it is….uh…what IS it…??
It’s almost like when Jesus said, I am the manna from heaven, He was saying, I am the what is it or I am The Who is it.
Sometimes I just have to laugh at us.
Like, when the manna fell and they said: it is manna,” what they were saying as they picked it up, held it and tasted it was really - it is….uh…what IS it…??
It’s almost like when Jesus said, I am the manna from heaven, He was saying, I am the what is it or I am The Who is it.
Sometimes I just have to laugh at us.
RLT63
Well-Known Member
Jesus was begotten when he was manifest in the flesh. Speaking of ancestors do you know why there are two genealogies of Jesus in the Bible? What is the curse of Jeconiah? | GotQuestions.org
Last edited:
That’s the connection I see between John 1:14 and the birth narratives in Matthew 1 and Luke 1.
That still leaves the age and ancestors differences.
One line is Mary’s and the other line is Joseph’s. Jesus has ancestors on both sides of the family.
RLT63
Well-Known Member
Christ couldn't come from a lineage that had been cursed so there had to be another genealogy
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Relationships 101. Jesus' father is the LORD God YHWH, the Creator and father of us all.
I was referring to the ASV version of the Bible that this site uses.
Hover over this book, chapter and verse link with your cursor and compare what the pop-up says to the KJV verse that follows.
Luke 1:37
KJV = "For with God nothing shall be impossible."
That is profoundly altered from the original text. It's not just changed a little, the entire meaning of the verse, what is stated, is erased completely and replaced with something not even remotely similar.
That's what I was referring to.
Jesus' flesh was begotten from His mother's flesh and physical DNA, and her lineage. His Spirit was the Father's.
An interesting analogy might be a complete blood transfusion. The Bible tells us the spirit (soul) is located in our physical blood. (Leviticus 17:14) If you were to survive having all your blood removed and have someone else's blood put into you, does that new blood become something altogether different than the source from whence it came?
No. It is still loaded with their spirit and DNA, etc. There are even many recorded accounts of people who have received a donated body part having strange personality changes; new appetites, new emotional tolerances, tastes, preferences, happier, more angry, etc.
When God put His Spirit (Himself - John 4:24) into Mary's egg, He wasn't creating a new spirit (soul), He was literally entering, Himself, into a flesh body. That flesh body had limitations, not only due to its human source of Mary, but due to the fact that God chose to dumb Himself down, if you will. He chose to humble Himself from His Divine abilities of omniscience and power, etc. That is why Jesus stated that He did not know everything that the Father knew. (Matthew 24:36; Mark 13:32)
We see evidence of this in Philippians 2:8. This is proof that Jesus was not just a man or what would that man be humbling himself from? A man child is humble enough without having yet developed any sense of pride or arrogance - this verse would not make sense in reference to a mortal man. It says He became obedient unto death. That is something that no mortal man is capable of as we see in 1 John 1:8 - no man is without sin. But Jesus was without sin. Never an idle curse word or unintentional lie or a single stray step of any kind. That is absolutely impossible for a human being.
Jesus' flesh was human, but His Spirit, His Soul was always God Almighty and when He asked the Father to reunite Him with the glory He had with the Father before the world was (John 17:5), He was referring to returning Him to His full state of Divinity which is what the Father did after Jesus' resurrection - which Jesus refers to in Matthew 28:18. (And that word there is "power" not authority.)
Last edited:
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Yes when used of Yahweh they say it is singular, but that is bad grammar! And you have it backwards verbs govern a sentence but not necessarily a noun.
It defintely is! It is the plural of Adon.
Is Adonai singular or plural?
Adonai ( אֲדֹנָי, lit. "My Lords") is the plural form of adon ("Lord") along with the first-person singular pronoun enclitic. As with Elohim, Adonai's grammatical form is usually explained as a plural of majesty. In the Hebrew Bible, it is nearly always used to refer to God (approximately 450 occurrences).
And that is the exact reason why I believe in the tri-une God head.
Ok, but the Bible doesn't teach a tri-une Godhead. So that can't be the reason.
There is another reason.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
But it does! It may not use that Word but there three persons who alone are God! and they are one!
It is not 1+1+1=1
It is 1X1X1= 1
There is your claim ... and where is your Scripture?
All you've ever needed is Scripture to flesh out your case and I will be converted.
I'm not biased against any doctrine if Scripture supports it. If God is 3, Hallelujah!
Until God's Word makes that case, my God is not 3 persons, but ONE person. Almighty God.
The following quotes show that the doctrine of the Trinity was indeed alive-and-well before the Council of Nicea:
Polycarp (70-155/160). Bishop of Smyrna. Disciple of John the Apostle.
“O Lord God almighty . . . I bless you and glorify you through the eternal and heavenly high priest Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, through whom be glory to you, with Him and the Holy Spirit, both now and forever” (n. 14, ed. Funk; PG 5.1040).
Justin Martyr (100?-165?). He was a Christian apologist and martyr.
“For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water” (First Apol., LXI).
Ignatius of Antioch (died 98/117). Bishop of Antioch. He wrote much in defense of Christianity.
“In Christ Jesus our Lord, by whom and with whom be glory and power to the Father with the Holy Spirit for ever” (n. 7; PG 5.988).
“We have also as a Physician the Lord our God Jesus the Christ the only-begotten Son and Word, before time began, but who afterwards became also man, of Mary the virgin. For ‘the Word was made flesh.’ Being incorporeal, He was in the body; being impassible, He was in a passable body; being immortal, He was in a mortal body; being life, He became subject to corruption, that He might free our souls from death and corruption, and heal them, and might restore them to health, when they were diseased with ungodliness and wicked lusts.” (Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., The ante-Nicene Fathers, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1975 rpt., Vol. 1, p. 52, Ephesians 7.)
Irenaeus (115-190). As a boy he listened to Polycarp, the disciple of John. He became Bishop of Lyons.
“The Church, though dispersed throughout the whole world, even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and their disciples this faith: . . . one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them; and in one Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who became incarnate for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who proclaimed through the prophets the dispensations of God, and the advents, and the birth from a virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the ascension into heaven in the flesh of the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and His manifestation from heaven in the glory of the Father ‘to gather all things in one,’ and to raise up anew all flesh of the whole human race, in order that to Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Savior, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father, ‘every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess; to him, and that He should execute just judgment towards all . . . ‘” (Against Heresies X.l)
Tertullian (160-215). African apologist and theologian. He wrote much in defense of Christianity.
“We define that there are two, the Father and the Son, and three with the Holy Spirit, and this number is made by the pattern of salvation . . . [which] brings about unity in trinity, interrelating the three, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are three, not in dignity, but in degree, not in substance but in form, not in power but in kind. They are of one substance and power, because there is one God from whom these degrees, forms and kinds devolve in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.” (Adv. Prax. 23; PL 2.156-7).
Origen (185-254). Alexandrian theologian. Defended Christianity and wrote much about Christianity.
“If anyone would say that the Word of God or the Wisdom of God had a beginning, let him beware lest he direct his impiety rather against the unbegotten Father, since he denies that he was always Father, and that he has always begotten the Word, and that he always had wisdom in all previous times or ages or whatever can be imagined in priority . . . There can be no more ancient title of almighty God than that of Father, and it is through the Son that he is Father” (De Princ. 1.2.; PG 11.132).
“For if [the Holy Spirit were not eternally as He is, and had received knowledge at some time and then became the Holy Spirit] this were the case, the Holy Spirit would never be reckoned in the unity of the Trinity, i.e., along with the unchangeable Father and His Son, unless He had always been the Holy Spirit.” (Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1975 rpt., Vol. 4, p. 253, de Principiis, 1.111.4)
“Moreover, nothing in the Trinity can be called greater or less, since the fountain of divinity alone contains all things by His word and reason, and by the Spirit of His mouth sanctifies all things which are worthy of sanctification . . . ” (Roberts and Donaldson, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. 4, p. 255, de Principii., I. iii. 7).
Conclusion
If, as the anti-Trinitarians maintain, the Trinity is not a biblical doctrine and was never taught until the council of Nicea in 325, then why do these quotes exist? The answer is simple: the Trinity is a biblical doctrine, and it was taught before the council of Nicea in 325 A.D.
Early Trinitarian Quotes
The Didache (c. 70)
And concerning baptism, baptise this way: Having first said all these things, baptise into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living [running] water. … But if you have neither, pour out water three times upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. — Didache 7:1, A.D. 70.
advertisement
Clement of Alexandria (c. 95-140)
Do we not have one God and one Christ and one Spirit of grace which was poured out upon us? And is there not one calling in Christ? — 1 Clement 46:6, ~A.D. 95
Brothers, we ought to think of Jesus Christ, as we do of God, as ‘Judge of the living and the dead’ — 2 Clement 1:1, ~A.D. 95–140
Ignatius of Antioch (c. 108-110)
…to the Church which is at Ephesus, in Asia … and elected through the true passion by the will of the Father, and Jesus Christ, our God… — Letter to the Ephesians 1, A.D. 108–110
For our God, Jesus Christ, was, according to the appointment of God, conceived in the womb by Mary, of the seed of David, but by the Holy Ghost. — Letter to the Ephesians 18:2, A.D. 108–110
Justin Martyr (c. 150)
…and that we reasonably worship Him, having learned that He is the Son of the true God Himself, and holding Him in the second place, and the prophetic Spirit in the third, we will prove. For they proclaim our madness to consist in this, that we give to a crucified man a place second to the unchangeable and eternal God, the Creator of all… — First Apology 13:5–6, ~A.D. 150
Martyrdom Of Polycarp (c. 155)
[Christ] who is the Son of God, we worship, but the martyrs we love as disciples and imitators of the Lord — Martyrdom Of Polycarp 17:3, ~ A.D. 155
advertisement
Theophilus of Antioch (c. 170)
In like manner also the three days which were before the luminaries, are types of the Trinity, of God, and His Word, and His wisdom. And the fourth is the type of man, who needs light, that so there may be God, the Word, wisdom, man. — Of the Fourth Day, Chapter XV ~A.D. 170
Athenagoras of Athens (c. 176–180)
But the Son of God is the Logos of the Father, in idea and in operation; for after the pattern of Him and by Him were all things made, the Father and the Son being one. And, the Son being in the Father and the Father in the Son, in oneness and power of spirit, the understanding and reason (νοῦς καὶ λόγος) of the Father is the Son of God. But if, in your surpassing intelligence, it occurs to you to inquire what is meant by the Son, I will state briefly that He is the first product of the Father, not as having been brought into existence (for from the beginning, God, who is the eternal mind [νοῦς], had the Logos in Himself, being from eternity instinct with Logos [λογικός]); but inasmuch as He came forth to be the idea and energizing power of all material things, which lay like a nature without attributes, and an inactive earth, the grosser particles being mixed up with the lighter. — Embassy for the Christians, Chapter X ~A.D. 176–180)
Irenaeus (c. 189)
For the Church, although dispersed throughout the whole world even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and from their disciples the faith in one God, the Father Almighty … and in one Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became flesh for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit” — Against Heresies 1:10:1, A.D. 189.
Read more at: Did the Early Church invent the Trinity? | That Ancient Faith
Did the Early Church invent the Trinity? | That Ancient Faith
Did the Early Church invent the Trinity? | That Ancient Faith
And concerning baptism, baptise this way: Having first said all these things, baptise into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living [running] water. … But if you have neither, pour out water three times upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. — Didache 7:1, A.D. 70.
advertisement
Clement of Alexandria (c. 95-140)
Do we not have one God and one Christ and one Spirit of grace which was poured out upon us? And is there not one calling in Christ? — 1 Clement 46:6, ~A.D. 95
Brothers, we ought to think of Jesus Christ, as we do of God, as ‘Judge of the living and the dead’ — 2 Clement 1:1, ~A.D. 95–140
Ignatius of Antioch (c. 108-110)
…to the Church which is at Ephesus, in Asia … and elected through the true passion by the will of the Father, and Jesus Christ, our God… — Letter to the Ephesians 1, A.D. 108–110
For our God, Jesus Christ, was, according to the appointment of God, conceived in the womb by Mary, of the seed of David, but by the Holy Ghost. — Letter to the Ephesians 18:2, A.D. 108–110
Justin Martyr (c. 150)
…and that we reasonably worship Him, having learned that He is the Son of the true God Himself, and holding Him in the second place, and the prophetic Spirit in the third, we will prove. For they proclaim our madness to consist in this, that we give to a crucified man a place second to the unchangeable and eternal God, the Creator of all… — First Apology 13:5–6, ~A.D. 150
Martyrdom Of Polycarp (c. 155)
[Christ] who is the Son of God, we worship, but the martyrs we love as disciples and imitators of the Lord — Martyrdom Of Polycarp 17:3, ~ A.D. 155
advertisement
Theophilus of Antioch (c. 170)
In like manner also the three days which were before the luminaries, are types of the Trinity, of God, and His Word, and His wisdom. And the fourth is the type of man, who needs light, that so there may be God, the Word, wisdom, man. — Of the Fourth Day, Chapter XV ~A.D. 170
Athenagoras of Athens (c. 176–180)
But the Son of God is the Logos of the Father, in idea and in operation; for after the pattern of Him and by Him were all things made, the Father and the Son being one. And, the Son being in the Father and the Father in the Son, in oneness and power of spirit, the understanding and reason (νοῦς καὶ λόγος) of the Father is the Son of God. But if, in your surpassing intelligence, it occurs to you to inquire what is meant by the Son, I will state briefly that He is the first product of the Father, not as having been brought into existence (for from the beginning, God, who is the eternal mind [νοῦς], had the Logos in Himself, being from eternity instinct with Logos [λογικός]); but inasmuch as He came forth to be the idea and energizing power of all material things, which lay like a nature without attributes, and an inactive earth, the grosser particles being mixed up with the lighter. — Embassy for the Christians, Chapter X ~A.D. 176–180)
Irenaeus (c. 189)
For the Church, although dispersed throughout the whole world even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and from their disciples the faith in one God, the Father Almighty … and in one Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became flesh for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit” — Against Heresies 1:10:1, A.D. 189.
Read more at: Did the Early Church invent the Trinity? | That Ancient Faith
Did the Early Church invent the Trinity? | That Ancient Faith
Did the Early Church invent the Trinity? | That Ancient Faith
Quotes from the Early Church Fathers: on the Trinity - Apostles Creed
Did the Early Church Fathers Believe in the Trinity – Many Prophets, One Message
What the Early Church Believed: The Trinity
The Early Church Fathers were taught by the Apostles.
Did the Early Church Fathers Believe in the Trinity – Many Prophets, One Message
What the Early Church Believed: The Trinity
The Early Church Fathers were taught by the Apostles.
- Status
Similar threads
