Gnosticism

[Wrangler]

Thanks Wrangler, your memory is definitely better than mine. We agree, it is about our assignment as Christians. Christians are not to be pew sitters, as the parable indicates.

Yes, we are NOT to be pew sitters (NOT to be studying the Bible), as the parable indicates.

All 3 servants would have gotten no credit spending their time waxing academically about how they are caring for their master's assets. They have to actually DO it! It is not their academic understanding of their responsibility that will be judged. It is in their DOING God's Will, not reading obsessively what he said.

At this point, I may have read the Gospel of John 7 times. No credit. Not any closer to salvation. Not brining the Kingdom to fruition one iota further.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

You can say knowledge is important all day long; it is not a requirement for salvation or the purpose of Christianity.

Knowledge is secondary. This is the lesson of Original Sin.

The lesson of Original Sin is that trust and obedience to God is primary. This is how we demonstrate what we know. The knowledge is experiential, not academic.

We are not going to be saved by knowing ABOUT God academically. We will only be saved when we are sealed by the Holy Spirit. And when we are we will know it.

Paul completely disagrees with your premise:

And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; - Eph. 4:11-13

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. - 2 Tim. 3:16-17

A Christian cannot possibly expect to possess Christ's character without being given the knowledge first. In order for someone to reach the destination that God has in store for them, they must first be given the tools that will keep them on the right road.

If someone was planning to road trip their way across the U.S. from Los Angeles to New York(or vice versa), can they logically expect to reach their intended destination without a map? Of course not, and why would it be any differently with Christianity? One of the many reasons why a lot of professing Christians are not on the correct road is because they don't have the knowledge. And what did God say about this?

"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I also will reject you from being priest for Me; because you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children. The more they increased, the more they sinned against Me; I will change their glory into shame." - Hos. 4:6-7

Rejecting God and sinning against Him is the inevitable result of rejecting knowledge. Not only is knowledge important, it is clearly mentioned as being a requirement in the Bible. Why would God deem somebody to be worthy of being a priest for Him if they reject knowledge?

The whole point behind Peter stating that Christians are supposed to be "a royal priesthood" is that they're are supposed to be filling up on the knowledge of God now so they can eventually be a priest for Him later. Contrary to what counterfeit Christianity teaches, God is calling people for a significantly higher purpose than worrying about their own personal salvation. God's Church will be teachers in the world that God is going to build in the very near future so other people can be saved. And to do that, those teachers will need to possess the required knowledge.

If you look in the OT, the priests were usually the ones who were held responsible for teaching the people God's way of life. And it was just as much true back then as it is now that they were held responsible for possessing the required knowledge first to be in a position of educating others. You can read about one such example of this in Ezr. 8:1-13 where Ezra and other scribes and priests read the Law to the people and helped them understand it so they would know what God required of them.

 

[Enoch111]

I heard on the Moody Radio show today Gnosticism defined as "the belief that knowledge about God leads to salvation rather than faith in Christ."

Gnostic was less about knowledge about God and more about esoteric or hidden knowledge accessible only to the enlightened ones -- "true spirituality consisted of escaping the bonds of this earthly prison by awakening to the transcendent divinity that lies hidden within oneself". This is similar to Hinduism and Buddhism. Buddha was known as "the Enlightened One".

 

[Wrangler]

Paul completely disagrees with your premise .... A Christian cannot possibly expect to possess Christ's character without being given the knowledge first.

Appeal to Strawman. My premise is the purpose of Christians is NOT to be a Bible student. Sounds like you think obtaining knowledge is the purpose.

 

[Wrangler]

Gnostic was less about knowledge about God and more about esoteric or hidden knowledge accessible only to the enlightened ones

Agreed. However, what this esoteric knowledge consists of seems to still be a point of difference.

Paul completely disagrees with your premise .... A Christian cannot possibly expect to possess Christ's character without being given the knowledge first.

 

[Behold]

The Gnostic teachers and their beliefs were condemned as heretical by early church fathers.
.

Do some study.

If you will, you'll discover that the father of gnosticism, almost became a POPE.

Valentinus.
-

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Do some study.

If you will, you'll discover that the father of gnosticism, almost became a POPE.

Valentinus.
-

Poor Behold very domineering to all.
I take my orders from God.
I study the Word under the Holy Ghost.

It is NOT necessary to study all the doctrine of demons to refute it. The WORD OF GOD will be the last standing testimony of righteousness!

What is a pope, a priest, a pastor, a deacon, ect...........JUST MEN MADE FROM DIRT. I SERVE A LIVING GOD!

 

[Enoch111]

What is a pope, a priest, a pastor, a deacon, ect...........JUST MEN MADE FROM DIRT.

Well not quite. Made in the image of God. But preferring the image of Satan if they choose to do evil and create man-made doctrines. The Gnostics chose to corrupt the Scriptures in order to promote their own doctrines.

 

[Robert Gwin]

The simple questions reveal people's agenda.



No sir.

Although I cannot say the exact opposite is true, I grew up in a Catholic community. No one that I knew growing up actually read the Bible. It was considered a mountain too big to climb.



You used the term 'main focus' whereas I used the term PURPOSE. Given this, it naturally follows that you must surely admit that the main focus of Christians is NOT to be students of the Bible. (Or are you pivoting from PURPOSE to 'main focus' while keeping your pivot foot on being student's of the Bible? <Being students of the Bible> 1st, bringing glory to God 2nd, eh? )

I have to just reiterate what I said Wrangler, all Christians study the Bible. God has always been about education, these end days no exception Isa 2:2,3

(Deuteronomy 17:18, 19) When he takes his seat on the throne of his kingdom, he must write for himself in a book a copy of this Law, taken from the one kept by the Levitical priests. 19 “It is to remain with him, and he must read from it all the days of his life, so that he may learn to fear Jehovah his God and observe all the words of this Law and these regulations by carrying them out.

(Psalm 1:1, 2) Happy is the man who does not walk according to the advice of the wicked And does not stand on the path of sinners And does not sit in the seat of scoffers. 2 But his delight is in the law of Jehovah, And he reads His law in an undertone day and night.

(1 Timothy 4:15) Ponder over these things; be absorbed in them, so that your advancement may be plainly seen by all people.

(James 1:25) But the one who peers into the perfect law that belongs to freedom and continues in it has become, not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work; and he will be happy in what he does.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Yes, we are NOT to be pew sitters (NOT to be studying the Bible), as the parable indicates.

All 3 servants would have gotten no credit spending their time waxing academically about how they are caring for their master's assets. They have to actually DO it! It is not their academic understanding of their responsibility that will be judged. It is in their DOING God's Will, not reading obsessively what he said.

At this point, I may have read the Gospel of John 7 times. No credit. Not any closer to salvation. Not brining the Kingdom to fruition one iota further.

If you obey it Wrangler, it can be of no greater value to you sir, after all, can you put a price on everlasting life? Think of it this way, you just admitted you have it available to you, what if you had chosen not to ever read it, obviously then you would have no idea what is required, so where would you be at Jesus' return if you are still alive?

I will definitely side with you however, knowledge alone is not salvation, it is true faith and works that saves. Jesus said point blank, the one doing the will of my Father, and of course that means you have to know what His will is.

 

[Wrangler]

I have to just reiterate what I said Wrangler, all Christians study the Bible.

No sir! Your premise is wrong. Not all Christian’s study the Bible. EVEN IF it were true, it is besides the point.

And I have to re-iterate that is not the question. The question is what is the PURPOSE of Christianity. It is NOT to be a Bible student. Simple.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Yes, we are NOT to be pew sitters (NOT to be studying the Bible), as the parable indicates.

All 3 servants would have gotten no credit spending their time waxing academically about how they are caring for their master's assets. They have to actually DO it! It is not their academic understanding of their responsibility that will be judged. It is in their DOING God's Will, not reading obsessively what he said.

At this point, I may have read the Gospel of John 7 times. No credit. Not any closer to salvation. Not brining the Kingdom to fruition one iota further.

May I ask Wrangler, how can a Christian do the assignment of making disciples, if they do not study heavily the Bible sir? I simply cannot make sense of why you say that.

 

[Wrangler]

May I ask Wrangler, how can a Christian do the assignment of making disciples, if they do not study heavily the Bible sir? I simply cannot make sense of why you say that.

Perhaps you are confusing MEANS with the ENDS.

Christians literally lived for centuries before the Bible even existed. Are you implying their life had no PURPOSE in God’s plan?

Another avenue of insight is that we went to school for the purpose of graduating. Once graduated, our purpose in life is not over. Rather, our purpose has only begun. Going to school, studying cannot be an END to itself, either in secular or religious arenas.

 

[Robert Gwin]

No sir! Your premise is wrong. Not all Christian’s study the Bible. EVEN IF it were true, it is besides the point.

And I have to re-iterate that is not the question. The question is what is the PURPOSE of Christianity. It is NOT to be a Bible student. Simple.

Simply put, one who does not study the Bible, is unequipped to perform the assignment sir. Therefore does their fruits indicate they are one of Jesus' disciples? I think you have your answer.

 

[Behold]

It is NOT necessary to study all the doctrine of demons to refute it. !

But it is necessary to study to show yourself approved, as knowing at least something about what you try to discuss, is a good idea.
So, as i said.
Do some study vs just posting opinion.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Perhaps you are confusing ME7ANS with the ENDS.

Christians literally lived for centuries before the Bible even existed. Are you implying their life had no PURPOSE in God’s plan?

Another avenue of insight is that we went to school for the purpose of graduating. Once graduated, our purpose in life is not over. Rather, our purpose has only begun. Going to school, studying cannot be an END to itself, either in secular or religious arenas.

We believe the Bible was completed by 100 CE sir. But keep in mind what Romans 6:7 says, that those who die are acquitted of sin. All who die with the exception of those who sin against the holy spirit will be resurrected Wrangler. It is very true the Bible was not necessary in their salvation. Perhaps like I you believe we live in the last days, I believe the tail end of the last days, and I have stated to you before that those who do not know God or obey the gospel of Christ will be destroyed upon Jesus' return 2 Thes 1:6-9. Sometimes it is timing sir. Knowledge is key in salvation, unless of course you die before Jesus' return.

 

[Wrangler]

Simply put, one who does not study the Bible, is unequipped to perform the assignment sir.

Again, irrelevant to the point. Let me put it this way; yes, knowledge is important but not the PURPOSE of Christianity.

Regarding being equipped, one sermon I heard stated that God does not call the qualified; he qualifies the called. If you are relying on your own knowledge, equiping yourself to do God's divine, spiritual work, you are relying on your own understanding and not the prompting of the Spirit.


Trust in the LORD with all your heart; do not depend on your own understanding.
Proverbs 3:5

 

[Wrangler]

We believe the Bible was completed by 100 CE sir.

Word play. I did not talk about when the Apostolic writings were complete. Everyone knows the Bible, such as we know it today, was not compiled until centuries after the last writings contained in it.

Therefore, Christians lived for centuries before the Bible was even compiled. According to your take, these Christians has no PURPOSE, since the Bible had not yet been compiled.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

But it is necessary to study to show yourself approved, as knowing at least something about what you try to discuss, is a good idea.
So, as i said.
Do some study vs just posting opinion.

For your information, I did a small internet search only to refute what was said by OP he heard on radio.

Your arrogance is astounding. I don't care your age, your seminary schooling, not even if YOU THINK your a preacher, your attitude stinks, does NOT resemble Christ and is off- putting !

GO BACK TO THE CROSS, YOUR WORDS ABOUT THE CROSS MEAN NOTHING WHEN SPEAK LIKE A ........

 

[Robert Gwin]

Again, irrelevant to the point. Let me put it this way; yes, knowledge is important but not the PURPOSE of Christianity.

Regarding being equipped, one sermon I heard stated that God does not call the qualified; he qualifies the called. If you are relying on your own knowledge, equiping yourself to do God's divine, spiritual work, you are relying on your own understanding and not the prompting of the Spirit.


Trust in the LORD with all your heart; do not depend on your own understanding.
Proverbs 3:5

Like you finished with Wrangler, we Christians do not rely on our own understanding, that is why we are educated at God's holy mountain, His house sir. Isa 2:2,3. But educated we are, as He feeds us extremely well.