Freed : From Calvinism and HyperCalvinism )Tulip<>5 Pont.

[GodsGrace]

The scripture speaks for itself as anyone can read.
However certain people take it and change what it says, which is what you are doing.
But the discussion is not profitable as I have already said.

Sure it's not profitable SD.

Because you can't even defend what you believe.

Here: Exegete this:

John 3:16
16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Now answer these questions for us:

1. WHO loved?
2. WHAT did He love?
3. WHAT did He do to save?
4. TO WHOM did He give the possibility of salvation?
5. WHAT must be done to be saved?
6. IF accepted....what does that person get?

Yes.
Better to run.

 

[GodsGrace]

The scripture speaks for itself as anyone can read.
However certain people take it and change what it says, which is what you are doing.
But the discussion is not profitable as I have already said.

Yes indeed SD
SOME people DO change scripture.......
YOU are one of them.

 

[GodsGrace]

Are you sure you know what is meant to be a Hyper-Calvinist? It is not what you are speaking of.

The above is biblical out of Jesus' Mouth. Remember, all the Words Paul spoke were from Jesus Christ....of Paul but NOT of Paul

You really have not told us anything about what is a 5-point Calvinist.

OK, ...believe there is a little more to it than that.

so, only if you are considered a 5-cavinist as Paul and Jesus are, you will believe in "predestination", You will believe in "election" and You will believe you are a ROBOT...

Rem, Paul was speaking ONLY to those of the church, those believers and only them.-

Sure, man has free will.

With Jesus as the author of the WORDs that Paul speaks, you you are saying that Jesus is also confused???bad pooh

No, Jesus did die for all those believing Sins....not all men

If Paul lied then Jesus Lied???Hum

Wow, now Paul/Jesus is not a 5-p calvinist/ Interesting....fut false teachings to be sure.

Didn't read your entire post Bladerunner....
But here's what a hyper-calvinist is:


A Calvinist that is willing to be HONEST about what Calvinism teaches.

Like, for instance, that God created evil.

Some Calvinists just can't accept that this is what John Calvin taught.
They had to change what he taught because it's TOO MUCH even for them.

However, Calvin taught that God created even evil.
Why?
So that it could have meaning...according to the likes of MacArthur and Piper...
otherwise,,,,gee....a girl getting RAPED would have no meaning at all...

But since God predestinated the rape....
IT MUST SURELY HAVE A GOOD REASON.

Hyper Calvinists should be grateful to God for making RAPE have a good reason.

 

[GodsGrace]

So are you saying you have no certain knowledge of anything the bible teaches? Or do yopu go to the bible thinking you have already learned things teh bible teaches and you are just hurling a not subtle ad-hominem?

If you are not sure you know anything with any certainty with whatr the bible teaches please tewll me. for then this is a futile discussion for you can't even be sure you know what you think you know!

Oh.
I just saw this.
I must be getting slow.

Ummmm.
My friend....
YOU are the one that goes to the bible with a predetermined idea and then draw it out of EVERYTHING you read.

Friend....
I KNOW WITH CERTAINTY what the bible teaches.

I would strongly suggest that YOU also attempt to understand what Jesus taught and stop learning from a man named JOHN CALVIN.

And, yes, this is a futile discussion for you because, as I've already noted...You are UNABLE to defend what you believe.

And is it any wonder?
Your belief system is HERETICAL.

Oh. And find out what heretical means because it's most probably not what you THINK it means.
Just like you don't really know what the entire NT means.

And if you want to discuss...let's discuss.
And if you don't because you cannot..

then

please don't post to me.

 

[brightfame52]

This is for YOU
@Scott Downey and
@Ronald Nolette


PLEASE Don't Discuss Matters You Know Nothing About.

BTW....Just quick:

The children not yet being born....
Jacob represents ISRAEL........that would be CORPORATE SALVATION

NOT
Individual salvation.

You still don't see it!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You can repeat your incorrect theology all you want to BF.....
I've TRIED to discuss Romans 9 with both @Ronald Nolette and @Scott Downey.

Know what? They don't even respond after I spend much time EXPLAINING Romans 9 to them.
They don't respond because Romans 9 is a rather difficult chapter in the NT and they want to touch and make comments about it but they won't take the time to really discuss it....as I've been willing to do.

This is a lie! I have responded.

You keep trying to say it is about Israel and Paul specifically refutes you rconcept in one verse:

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

I agree 1-13 are about Israel for the language and context says as much.

But 14 starts a new thought in this chapter and Paul concludes this new thought with verse 24 it is both for Jews and Gentiles.

Why do I need to discuss your faulty commentary when the bible makes it clear it is for both Jews and Gentiles?

Romans 11 also is a great commentary by Paul showing how Gentiles re grafted in and that God will deal with all Israel and save them as is promised!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

This is for YOU
@Scott Downey and
@Ronald Nolette


PLEASE Don't Discuss Matters You Know Nothing About.

BTW....Just quick:

The children not yet being born....
Jacob represents ISRAEL........that would be CORPORATE SALVATION

NOT
Individual salvation.

That is why I don't discuss quantum physics and molecular biology or advanced math. I know nothinbg of them.

But you should avoid saying your opiunio0ns are bible for they are not!

There is no such thing as "corporate slvation!

If you had even a basic understanding of Grammar you would know it is about individuals.

What does Esau represent? Gentiles? does that mean gentiles are unsaved?

You are much like behold, quick to rebuke and disagree but so very slow to provide Scripture to either defend you rposition or refute those you disagree with.

Provie from Scripture that this verse:

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Means corporate salvation of Israel. YOu said it now defend it.

 

[GodsGrace]

You still don't see it!

And I never will BF

BECAUSE IT'S NOT THERE!

 

[GodsGrace]

That is why I don't discuss quantum physics and molecular biology or advanced math. I know nothinbg of them.

But you should avoid saying your opiunio0ns are bible for they are not!

There is no such thing as "corporate slvation!

If you had even a basic understanding of Grammar you would know it is about individuals.

What does Esau represent? Gentiles? does that mean gentiles are unsaved?

You are much like behold, quick to rebuke and disagree but so very slow to provide Scripture to either defend you rposition or refute those you disagree with.

Provie from Scripture that this verse:

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Means corporate salvation of Israel. YOu said it now defend it.

Well, actually RN...Romans chapter 9 IS ABOUT GENTILES and about how they're going to be grafted in.

BUT

I gave my review of practically everything in Romans 9

Now YOU give yours....


And, please, this is not about grammar.

Study up on Romans 9:13 about Esau and Jacob.....

I DARE YOU TO.....

You could start here.....not a site I like, but, EVEN THEY understand that Romans 9 is about corporate salvation....
and is not about INDIVIDUAL SALVATION.....

The same idea is at work in God's use of these contrasting words in Malachi and quoted by Paul here. God's act of love for Jacob, in choosing to give to him the covenant promises, was well beyond His actions towards Esau, in declaring that Esau would serve Jacob. There is a strong contrast there: one is clearly being given the preferred treatment, the other is not. Using dramatic, contrast-enhancing language, it can be said that one was "loved" and the other "hated."

source: BibleRef.com Statement of Faith | BibleRef.com

And if you're really serious...try these:

Enduring Word Bible Commentary Romans Chapter 9

David Guzik commentary on Romans 9, where Paul explains how God has not failed His children of promise, Israel, although they have missed the Messiah.

enduringword.com

Does Romans 9 teach Predestination for some or Salvation for All? | Sabbath School Net

Many take Romans 9 to say that God has chosen some people to be saved and others to be lost without any will or choice of their own. They call this

ssnet.org

God’s election is based on His foreknowledge. He did not love Jacob more than He did Esau because God is no respecter of persons and He is a respecter of faith. (Romans 2:11) (Hebrews 11:6) What God hated about Esau was his indifference to his birthright. The things God saw in Jacob was that he would value his birthright even though he got it through deceptive means. Understanding election in reference to nations and not individuals teaches us that God does not arbitrarily select some people for heaven and others for hell. If this was the case then a verse like John 3:16 is null and void because the Lord Jesus said “whosever will.” While all things are foreknown to God the choice is still given. This is the balance of scripture concerning election and free will.
source: Romans Chapters 9-11 Study 1


AND THERE'S SO MUCH MORE...
BUT
OF COURSE
YOU WON'T BE INTERESTED.
BETTER TO FOLLOW JOHN CALVIN INSTEAD.

 

[amigo de christo]

Amigo....
This is what happens:

A person comes to know Christ.
He becomes a born again believer.

He joins a church.
Who knows what church? They know nothing.

The church is reformed.
They teach reformed/Calvinist theology.

The person becomes a Calvinist...AND NEVER EVEN KNOWS IT.

Then they read the NT through the lens of what they've learned...

AND SO THEY NEVER COME TO KNOW THE GOD THAT EVERY OTHER CHRISTIAN KNOWS.

They come to know a God that is NOT REPRESENTED in the NT (or the Old for that matter).

IT'S VERY SAD indeed.

Very true , only its not JUST calivn reformed churches that have done this . THE RCC has long done it .
and scores of others do too . This lamb expose all falsehoods . i do not pick and choose , i expose them all .
But perhaps it is why i be so hated by most all peoples . WE really need to be IN THAT BIBLE for our own selves . RIGHT NOW .

 

[Ritajanice]

Isaiah 45:7

King James Version

​

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

 

[amigo de christo]

Ah....
What are you talking about Scott Downey?

Of course you're not going to agree with me on HOW a person becomes born again....

That's because you don't follow the teaching of JESUS or of PAUL or of any other writer in the NT.
You follow some guy named JOHN CALVIN.

Who taught heretical theology.

Also,,,,,IF you bring up Romans 9 and then decide you do not wish to discuss Romans 9 because it's beyond your pay grade...
THEN WHY BRING IT UP?

Why not just make comments on something or other that you THINK you know about instead of bringing up theological matters that you know nothing about?

And....last comment...

WHY NOT LEARN what Romans 9 is about instead of MISQUOTING it???

Men did this . and people seem to love to have it so .
A hint . IF anyone comes and tries to pit paul against james , or somehow even pits paul against Christs teachings
I WOULD NOT HEED A WORD ONE outta they mouth .
IF they come hollering certain teachings dont apply to us today , I WOULD NOT HEED a one .
FROM THE WORDS OF JESUS to the words of the apostels and er lovely word of truth in scrip . ITS ALL FOR OUR MEAT
and for our good that we do learn and do not do the evil others did .
IF folks do as they do and what they do contradicts what the early church taught and left us in that bible
THAT IS ONE THAT WONT BE HEEDED . This would include those who justify female pastors or any other such thing .
Christ left us the pattern and the apostels under influence of the HOLY GHOST would later expound that pattern to the church .
RATHER ODD they sure seem quite serious against sin . TODAY THEY DONT
rather odd they seemed to talk about what should occur to any brother or sister IN A SIN
not to even eat with such a one . THSI IS ABOUT repentance . BUT TODAY NO WAY , ITS JUDGE NOT CORRECT NOT
which led to A MASSIVE amount of leaven till now we see even rainbows , korans and other junk IN THE CHURCH .
the lie to merge the denomiantions and false religoins HAS COME and more and more even embrace that lie .

 

[Ritajanice]

Very true , only its not JUST calivn reformed churches that have done this . THE RCC has long done it .
and scores of others do too . This lamb expose all falsehoods . i do not pick and choose , i expose them all .
But perhaps it is why i be so hated by most all peoples . WE really need to be IN THAT BIBLE for our own selves . RIGHT NOW .

@GodsGrace is a Catholic, she’s an overseer on another forum under a heading Catholic.

 

[amigo de christo]

@GodsGrace is a Catholic, she’s an overseer on another forum under a heading Catholic.

i warn and remind all rita . i warn and remind all . out of great love for them i warn and remind all .
But the more i love the less i be loved .

 

[Ritajanice]

i warn and remind all rita . i warn and remind all . out of great love for them i warn and remind all .
But the more i love the less i be loved .

You are very much loved here, don’t be silly!.

 

[amigo de christo]

You are very much loved here, don’t be silly!.

While i have to admit this is the kindest site by far towards me , lets not kid ourselves rita
ME nor my bible is loved by all . maybe by some . okay maybe by some .
But most dont want a thing to do with me . But no worries I PRAY FOR THEIR GOOD and not their destruction .
JESUS taught me to pray even for those who do hate me , even for my enemies .
I mean lets not kid ourselves , IF you all had known me before MY GRACE SENT BORN AGAIN conversion
you folks would have cringed in terror at this monster . But i sure could appear to be kind and loving . SO WATCH OUT .
I was a monster rita . TRUTH is the ONLY GOODNESS IN ME is OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD .

 

[amigo de christo]

You are very much loved here, don’t be silly!.

Would you like to hear something real scary sister .
You know how i tell you i was a monster before my grace sent born again conversion . ITS TRUE .
but the scary thing is most people as well as christains would have thought me a kind caring person . LET THAT SINK IN .
we better watch out . appearances can be DECIEVING .

 

[Ritajanice]

I was a monster rita . TRUTH is the ONLY GOODNESS IN ME is OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD .

Love this, not that you were a monster ,this I love to hear, TRUTH is the ONLY GOODNESS IN ME is OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD


Praise God.

 

[Ritajanice]

Would you like to hear something real scary sister .
You know how i tell you i was a monster before my grace sent born again conversion . ITS TRUE .
but the scary thing is most people as well as christains would have thought me a kind caring person . LET THAT SINK IN .
we better watch out . appearances can be DECIEVING .

I hope the bold isn’t referring to me..hehehe...I pick up on subtly my friend. Hehehe..

 

[amigo de christo]

I hope the bold isn’t referring to me..hehehe...I pick up on subtly my friend. Hehehe..

its referring to men like pope francis and others who can appear real smily and nice but they are STILL deceiving .