Filling in Scriptural Blanks

[FaithWillDo]

11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

Dear Scott Downy,
You said:
At the time of the new earth that God will make, where God makes all things new, the evil and unbelieving will remain in the lake of fire. A literal destruction where they do not ever escape to be saved later. God seals them in that place for all future eternity.

You are misunderstanding the verses you quoted. Those verses are teaching truth in Christ's spiritual language. I'll try to explain what this means below.

Until a person has received both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit, they will remain spiritually blind. To be spiritually blind means to understand God's Word (Christ) in a outward and physical way.

The Old Covenant of Law was given to carnal mankind who has no problem understanding it. This includes the work of Christ which led Him to the cross. For that reason, new believers (babes, Early Rain only) who are carnally minded can understand that work.

Consider what Paul said to the Corinthian church:

1Cor 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

The Corinthian church had only received the Early Rain of the Spirit and they remained carnal in their understanding. They could not understand and receive the spiritual teachings of Paul which were taught in the same way that Christ taught.

In contrast to the Old Covenant, the New Covenant is spiritual and its teachings are spiritual - they apply within a person.

These verses apply:

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts (converted believers). 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language (Christ's spiritual language) will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they (babes who are carnally minded) might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

1Cor 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things (words) with spiritual (words).

The verses you quoted are teaching truth in Christ's spiritual language. The spirit words used in those verses carry meanings that are different from how man's wisdom defines them.

Consider these verses that you quoted:

Rev 21
Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, [a]John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

5 Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said [b]to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”

In the spiritual language of Christ, the "New Earth" is referring to the new spiritual nature that the Holy Spirit gives a converted believer. The Old/Natural/First Earth is referring to man's carnal spiritual nature. The "New Heaven" is referring to the "mind of Christ" which converted believers have. The Old/Natural/First Heaven is referring to the carnal mind of mankind.

This concept below applies:

1Cor 15:46 But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual.

The phrase "there was no more sea" means that the converted Elect (the bride/New Jerusalem) walk by faith. In other words, there is no unbelief within them anymore.

The "sea" is where unbelievers are said to dwell. Carnal believers (babes, Early Rain only) are said to dwell upon the "earth" (a little higher spiritual plain). Converted believers are said to dwell with Christ in "heaven". These are all spirit words and do not represent literal physical places.

When Christ said "I make all things new", He is speaking about a person who is born again and converted from being a child of the Devil (mankind) into being a child of God. The old (natural) vessel has been destroyed and the new vessel has been created:

Isa 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

The spiritual process that creates the new vessel and destroys the old vessel is called conversion. Conversion requires the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit (creates the new vessel), followed by judgment (Day of the Lord) which destroys the old vessel. This spiritual process of conversion happens by the work of Christ.

You said:
There is never any future promise of an eternal salvation in the future for them we are at the end of the books of God.

Yes, there are many scriptures that teach that Christ will save all mankind. I quoted a few of them to you already.

In this age, Christ is only harvesting the "first fruits" of His harvest. They are blessed and are the heirs of Abraham. They will receive the reward of having life during the ages and the reward of reigning with Christ to bring in the final harvest which occurs in the final age.

These verses apply:

Exo 34:22 And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.

The "wheat" represent the Elect who are the first fruits. The year's end harvest represents the salvation of the rest of mankind in the final age.

Consider what Christ said here:

John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast (of Ingathering), Jesus stood and cried, saying, if any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Most of the 7th chapter of John applies to the spiritual events of the final age. The Elect go to the feast first to judge the "lost" by the Law. But before the "lost" perish, Christ will come to the feast and freely give them the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit. Joel chapter 2:1-27 is another teaching on these same events which will occur in the final age. Christ's army represents the Elect/Bride who are reigning with Him.

You said:
Christ is the savior of all men, but only if they believe in their hearts in this life in the flesh.

Belief in Christ can only occur after Christ has given a person the free gift of the Spirit. Also, there are no verses which teach that salvation is limited to this age. The only thing that is limited to this age is being included in the harvest of first fruits/heirs (Feast of Weeks).

There is much more that I would like to present but this post is getting too long.

Joe

 

[Wick Stick]

Paul didn't say ignore genealogies in the Bible, he was meaning to avoid arguing over which tribe someone belonged to. Barnes' Notes on 1 Timothy 1:4 says:

And endless genealogies - This also refers to Jewish teaching. The Hebrews kept careful genealogical records, for this was necessary in order that the distinction of their tribes might be kept up. Of course, in the lapse of centuries these tables would become very numerous, complicated, and extended - so that they might without much exaggeration be called “endless.” The Jews attached great importance to them, and insisted on their being carefully preserved. As the Messiah, however, had now come - as the Jewish polity was to cease - as the separation between them and the pagan was no longer necessary, and the distinction of tribes was now useless, there was no propriety that these distinctions should be regarded by Christians. The whole system was, moreover, contrary to the genius of Christianity, for it served to keep up the pride of blood and of birth.​

​

Which minister questions - Which afford matter for troublesome and angry debates. It was often difficult to settle or understand them. They became complicated and perplexing. Nothing is more difficult than to unravel an extensive genealogical table. To do this, therefore, would often give rise to contentions, and when settled, would give rise still further to questions about rank and precedence.​

That's an elegant explaining away of what seems to be the plain meaning of those 2 verses. But it isn't just those 2 verses that discard genealogies - they're simply the clearest statements.

If we go to John 8-10, we have Jesus' own teachings on the subject... and the crux of them is that we should determine paternity by looking at behavior; not genealogies. Abraham's children act like Abraham. Those who act like Satan are indeed Satan's spawn, even if they have pedigrees. John the Baptist likewise condemns those pedigreed Pharisees with "think not to say to yourselves that you have Abraham for your father" and calls them "generation of vipers," to impugn their paternity (Matt 3). Paul agrees with Jesus too - Abraham's descendants not only believe like Abraham, but they're actually adopted as sons to Abraham... while not all Israel is actually Israel (Romans 9).

We can even find it in the Old Testament, in Hosea where his (bastard?) son is named Lo Ammi (not my people), but then later made a legitimate son. Or in Genesis 15, where God promises to make Abraham a father to Gentiles.

This turns out to be a well-developed doctrine across the Bible. I don't think it can easily be discarded... to throw it out would also require us to throw out the adoption of Gentiles and salvation for non-Jews.

 

[amadeus]

Brakelite said:
...
I believe that every soul has eternal life...

This one point I leave open... God knows.

 

[keithr]

I believe that every soul has eternal life.

Luke 20:37-39 NIV
But in the account of the burning bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise,
for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’[a]
38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”
39 Some of the teachers of the law responded, “Well said, teacher!”

All humans are mortal, they can and do die. The dead are dead and have no thoughts whatsoever. Jesus' sacrifice redeems us from death, and in due time everyone will be restored to conscious life again (resurrection). That is what the passage in Luke says. God refers to Abraham, etc. as alive because He knows that He will restore them to life again, or as Scripture puts it, they will awaken from the sleep of death.

1 Corinthians 15:20 (WEB):

(20) But now Christ has been raised from the dead. He became the first fruits of those who are asleep.​

Ephesians 5:14 (WEB):

(14) Therefore he says, “Awake, you who sleep, and arise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you.”​

If the every soul is eternal then why would Jesus say, Matthew 10:28 (WEB):

(28) Don’t be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.​

 

[keithr]

That's an elegant explaining away of what seems to be the plain meaning of those 2 verses. But it isn't just those 2 verses that discard genealogies - they're simply the clearest statements.

Paul wrote, 2 Timothy 3:16 (WEB):

(16) Every Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness,​

"Every Scripture" includes the genealogies recorded in those Scriptures. Paul dosen't say we should ignore some parts of Scripture.

 

[St. SteVen]

All humans are mortal, they can and do die.

There is physical death, but the soul lives on.
NDE testimonies indicate that the mind can live outside the physical body.
Patients report witnessing resuscitation efforts and give details of what happened when they were physically unconscious.

The dead are dead and have no thoughts whatsoever. Jesus' sacrifice redeems us from death, and in due time everyone will be restored to conscious life again (resurrection). That is what the passage in Luke says. God refers to Abraham, etc. as alive becuase He knows that He will restore them to life again, or as Scripture puts it, they will awaken from the sleep of death.

You are quoting a book whose theme is life under the sun.
Indeed, a physically dead person has no thoughts, or aspirations.

In the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus, Abraham talks to the Rich Man.
Why would Jesus be so misleading, if the dead are in a state of unconscious nonexistence?

This passage below does not limit those who are alive to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
It says "all are alive." The teachers of the law understood this as well. (vs 39)

Luke 20:37-39 NIV
But in the account of the burning bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise,
for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’[a]
38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”
39 Some of the teachers of the law responded, “Well said, teacher!”

[

 

[RedFan]

You should read the entire story sometime, it's really good. Methuselah was dead before the flood began. He was the key figure in the flood timing. God told them when he was born that when he dies then a great flood will come.

It must have been interesting to raise that kid. I bet the whole neighbrohood panicked whe he got the measles as a kid! It doesnt really say what Methuselah died from but he was 969 so he prolly died of old age.

His name means his death shall bring. So he died before the first raindrop.

From Chapter V of the Book of Jasher, right?

33 And Noah rose up, and he made the ark, in the place where God had commanded him, and Noah did as God had ordered him. 34 In his five hundred and ninety-fifth year Noah commenced to make the ark, and he made the ark in five years, as the Lord had commanded. 35 Then Noah took the three daughters of Eliakim, son of Methuselah, for wives for his sons, as the Lord had commanded Noah. 36 And it was at that time Methuselah the son of Enoch died, nine hundred and sixty years old was he, at his death .

 

[St. SteVen]

What does the term "endless genealogies" even mean?
Certainly the genealogies themselves are not endless.
Seems to be a reference to the endless and unprofitable discussion.
"... controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work..."

1 Timothy 1:4 NIV
or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies.
Such things promote controversial speculations rather than
advancing God’s work—which is by faith.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

If the every soul is eternal then why would Jesus say, Matthew 10:28 (WEB):

(28) Don’t be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.

That scripture infers that God ("him") is able to "destroy both soul and body in Gehenna."
This means that there are bodies and souls in Gehenna. Which doesn't support unconscious nonexistence.
What's to fear if you aren't there?

[

 

[FaithWillDo]

All humans are mortal, they can and do die. The dead are dead and have no thoughts whatsoever. Jesus' sacrifice redeems us from death, and in due time everyone will be restored to conscious life again (resurrection). That is what the passage in Luke says. God refers to Abraham, etc. as alive becuase He knows that He will restore them to life again, or as Scripture puts it, they will awaken from the sleep of death.

1 Corinthians 15:20 (WEB):

(20) But now Christ has been raised from the dead. He became the first fruits of those who are asleep.​

Ephesians 5:14 (WEB):

(14) Therefore he says, “Awake, you who sleep, and arise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you.”​

If the every soul is eternal then why would Jesus say, Matthew 10:28 (WEB):

(28) Don’t be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.​

Dear keithr,
I completely agree with your post on the state of death.

After a person physically dies, they are dead and have no consciousness.

Also, the term "soul" is defined in the verse below as being: PHYSICAL BODY + SPIRIT = A LIVING SOUL

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground (physical body), and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life (mankind's marred spirit); and man became a living soul.

In other words, mankind doesn't have a living soul, we are a living soul. So when the body dies, the soul also dies and our spirit returns to God. Without a body, we have no conscious life and are perished. But thanks to the work of Christ that He did at the cross, Christ earned the keys to death and hell. With those keys, Christ has the power to resurrect all mankind from death.

So when is the resurrection from the grave for mankind?

Paul says in 1Cor 15:52, the resurrection from the grave is still a future event. It will occur at the "last trumpet" which will sound at the end of this age. Christ will then resurrect the saints who are asleep (dead). The saints who have not died will then be changed (given a spiritual body) and will join them in the clouds.

Paul restated his teaching on the resurrection from the grave in his first letter to the Thessalonians:

1Thes 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Paul's purpose for these comments above was to give the Thessalonian believers a knowledge of the truth concerning those who have died in Christ. From that knowledge, the Thessalonian believers should have comfort and hope concerning their loved ones who had died.

If what St. SteVen believes is true, then why didn't Paul just tell them that their loved ones are not actually dead but that their soul lives on in heaven?

The truth is that when a living soul dies, it is dead until the resurrection from the grave occurs. When Christ died on the cross, He was literally dead for three days until the Father resurrected Him from the grave. Because Paul understands this truth about the state of death, Paul responds to the Thessalonians by teaching them about the coming resurrection from the grave. It is Paul's teaching of "those words" about the coming resurrection that should give comfort to the Thessalonians.

As for the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man, it is a parable. A parable is a story of fiction that teaches spiritual truths. It should not be understood as being literal.

As for near death experiences, they are either hoaxes or tricks of the mind. NDE's should not be used as evidence for life after death.

Paul said this:

1Cor 4:6 Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other.

NDE's are not mentioned in scripture and should not used as support for life after death.

Joe

 

[keithr]

That scripture infers that God ("him") is able to "destroy both soul and body in Gehenna."
This means that their are bodies and souls in Gehenna. Which doesn't support unconscious nonexistence.
What's to fear if you aren't there?

The dead bodies of criminals who had been executed, were thrown into the valley of Gehenna, where fires were kept constantly burning, so the bodies will have been burnt and utterly destroyed. Jesus and his disciples used Gehenna to symbolise eternal destruction, annihilation, or the "second death", an eternal punishment of death (no life, no conscious thoughts, utter destruction).

Revelation 20:14-15 (WEB):

(14) Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.​

(15) If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.​

Revelation 21:4 (WEB):

(4) He will wipe away every tear from their eyes. Death will be no more; neither will there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more. The first things have passed away.”​

Anything thrown into the lake of fire is utterly destroyed, and will no longer exist. Death will be no more, so it is described symbolically as being thrown into the lake of fire. Likewise all those who are cast into the fire will be utterly destroyed and will no longer exist. Those not written in the "book of life" will cease to have life, eternally. Therefore it cannot be true that "every soul has eternal life".

 

[FaithWillDo]

The dead bodies of criminals who had been executed, were thrown into the valley of Gehenna, where fires were kept constantly burning, so the bodies will have been burnt and utterly destroyed. Jesus and his disciples used Gehenna to symbolise eternal destruction, annihilation, or the "second death", an eternal punishment of death (no life, no conscious thoughts, utter destruction).

Revelation 20:14-15 (WEB):

(14) Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.​

(15) If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.​

Revelation 21:4 (WEB):

(4) He will wipe away every tear from their eyes. Death will be no more; neither will there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more. The first things have passed away.”​

Anything thrown into the lake of fire is utterly destroyed, and will no longer exist. Death will be no more, so it is described symbolically as being thrown into the lake of fire. Likewise all those who are cast into the fire will be utterly destroyed and will no longer exist. Those not written in the "book of life" will cease to have life, eternally. Therefore it cannot be true that "every soul has eternal life".

Dear keithr,
I agree that those who are cast into the Lake of Fire will perish by that judgment. "Fire" is the symbol for judgment.

In fact, all mankind will perish in the Lake of Fire (including the Elect) because all mankind is "condemned already" (John 3:18). However, before a person perishes, Christ will give the person a new birth as a child of God. The child of God is blameless and will be gathered to heaven. The child of the Devil will remain in the Lake of Fire until he perishes.

For the Elect in this age, they are "born again" prior to judgment falling on them. When judgment falls, the spirit of anti-Christ and the Great Harlot are removed within them and cast into the Lake of Fire. Because the new birth occurs prior to judgment, the believer does not experience wrath during their time of judgment.

The verses below are a teaching on the judgment of the Elect when they are going through the conversion process:

Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two (contained in one believer) be in the field; the one (spirit of anti-Christ/man of sin) shall be taken, and the other left (newly born child of God). 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one (Great Harlot) shall be taken, and the other left (new spiritual nature of the Holy Spirit).

Chapter 19 of Revelation is another teaching on the conversion of the Elect using the marriage analogy. After the Marriage of the Lamb and the Supper of the Lamb, the believer is born again and gathered to heaven as a Bride. Judgment will then fall on the believer where Christ and His new Bride will ride in judgment to remove the "chaff" (spirit of anti-Christ and worsened carnal nature/Great Harlot) from within the believer. The chaff is then cast into the Lake of Fire for destruction (v. 20).

For the "lost" in the final age, they will be cast into the Lake of Fire prior to their new birth. When judgment falls on them, they will experience wrath. But before they perish in the Lake of Fire, Christ will have mercy upon them:

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Christ's mercy will come to them in the form of the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit. With the Spirit, they will have faith which will make Christ's pathway straight for Him to appear. When He appears, He will gather the newly born child of God to heaven. The child of the Devil will remain in the Lake of Fire to perish. This death will satisfy justice.

Joel 2:1-27 is another teaching of the judgment of the "lost" in the final age. It ends the same way - with the salvation of the "lost".

What I described above is the conversion process that all mankind must go through to be saved. Christ does this work of conversion because He loves His enemies and will only bless and do good to them:

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Because Christ's judgment does not omit mercy, faith and justice, Christ longed to start His judgment upon mankind because He knew that it is a vital part of the conversion process which will save them.

Luke 12:49 “I came to send fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

The verses below also apply to Christ's judgment of mankind:

Psa 33:5 He loveth righteousness AND JUDGMENT: the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD.

Isa 1:27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.

Jer 4:2 And thou shalt swear, The LORD liveth, in truth, IN JUDGMENT, and in righteousness; and the nations shall BLESS THEMSELVES IN HIM, and in him shall they glory.

Prov 28:5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Job 34:12 Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment.

After Christ has completed His work within all mankind, it will then be testified to be true that Christ truly is mankind's Savior:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Joe

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
That scripture infers that God ("him") is able to "destroy both soul and body in Gehenna."
This means that there are bodies and souls in Gehenna. Which doesn't support unconscious nonexistence.
What's to fear if you aren't there?

The dead bodies of criminals who had been executed, were thrown into the valley of Gehenna, where fires were kept constantly burning, so the bodies will have been burnt and utterly destroyed. Jesus and his disciples used Gehenna to symbolise eternal destruction, annihilation, or the "second death", an eternal punishment of death (no life, no conscious thoughts, utter destruction).

Revelation 20:14-15 (WEB):

(14) Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.​

(15) If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.​

Revelation 21:4 (WEB):

(4) He will wipe away every tear from their eyes. Death will be no more; neither will there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more. The first things have passed away.”​

Anything thrown into the lake of fire is utterly destroyed, and will no longer exist. Death will be no more, so it is described symbolically as being thrown into the lake of fire. Likewise all those who are cast into the fire will be utterly destroyed and will no longer exist. Those not written in the "book of life" will cease to have life, eternally. Therefore it cannot be true that "every soul has eternal life".

How can you claim that annihilation (utter destruction) is eternal punishment?
Why would unconscious nonexistent nothings be thrown into the lake of fire?
What is left to throw? Isn't the silent nonexistence of death sufficient?
For what purpose is this done?

Does God resurrect these nonexistent nothings to be judged and executed? (incinerated)
What virtue of purpose is there in that?

Furthermore, the utter destruction of Annihilationism is contradictory to the doctrine of a forever burning hell.
As well as contradictory to Universal Redemption.

[

 

[Wick Stick]

Paul wrote, 2 Timothy 3:16 (WEB):

(16) Every Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness,​

Yep, that's the one single verse that is used to prop up inerrancy. Which is more likely - that our understanding of this one verse is imperfect, or that the multiple chapters that teach something different are to blame?

"Every Scripture" includes the genealogies recorded in those Scriptures. Paul dosen't say we should ignore some parts of Scripture.

I literally just gave 2 verses where he says EXACTLY that, and then expanded it with examples that cross multiple chapters of Scripture.

I think perhaps you only read one comment and responded, rather than reading all the way through?

 

[RedFan]

Paul wrote, 2 Timothy 3:16 (WEB):

(16) Every Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness,​

"Every Scripture" includes the genealogies recorded in those Scriptures. Paul dosen't say we should ignore some parts of Scripture.

It does include the OT genealogies. It does not include the genealogies in Matthew and Luke (which, by the way, don't agree with each other). When Paul referred to "Scripture" in his letter to Timothy, he was referring to the OT. Not to gospels that hadn't yet been written.

 

[St. SteVen]

From post #48

What does the term "endless genealogies" even mean?
Certainly the genealogies themselves are not endless.

Seems to be a reference to the endless and unprofitable discussion.
"... controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work..."

1 Timothy 1:4 NIV
or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies.
Such things promote controversial speculations rather than
advancing God’s work—which is by faith.

[

 

[keithr]

The verses below are a teaching on the judgment of the Elect when they are going through the conversion process:

Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two (contained in one believer) be in the field; the one (spirit of anti-Christ/man of sin) shall be taken, and the other left (newly born child of God). 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one (Great Harlot) shall be taken, and the other left (new spiritual nature of the Holy Spirit).

I think you have misunderstood what Jesus was saying here. He was responding to the questions in verse three - Matthew 24:3 (WEB):

(3) As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? What is the sign of your coming, and of the end of the age?”​

Jesus was not decribing a "conversion process", he was describing his coming for the church at the end of the Gospel Age and the rapture of Christians, or as Luke puts it, "the day that the Son of Man is revealed" (Luke 17:30). When he said there were two people, that is exactly what he meant. He said, "Two women will be grinding at the mill"; Barnes' Notes comments:

Two women ... - Grinding in the East was performed, as it is now, chiefly by hand. The millstones were about 2 feet in diameter and 12 foot in thickness. The lower one was fixed, and the upper one was turned by a handle or crank. This was done by two persons, who sat opposite to each other. One took hold of the mill-handle and turned it half-way round; the other then seized it and completed the revolution. This was done by women - by servants of the lowest order - and was a very laborious employment. See Exo_11:5; Job_31:10; Isa_47:2; Jdg_16:21. The meaning of this verse is similar to the former. Of two persons sitting near each other, one shall be taken and the other left. The calamity would be sudden, and would come upon them before they were aware.​

Luke says, Luke 17:35 (WEB):

(35) There will be two grinding grain together. One will be taken, and the other will be left.”​

This is definnitely talking about two people not one person who has part of themself destroyed.

Chapter 19 of Revelation is another teaching on the conversion of the Elect using the marriage analogy. After the Marriage of the Lamb and the Supper of the Lamb, the believer is born again and gathered to heaven as a Bride. Judgment will then fall on the believer where Christ and His new Bride will ride in judgment to remove the "chaff" (spirit of anti-Christ and worsened carnal nature/Great Harlot) from within the believer. The chaff is then cast into the Lake of Fire for destruction (v. 20).

Revelation 19 is describes the marriage of the Lamb taking place in heaven. The church has already been resurrected and are in heaven - they have to be born again (resurrected as spirit beings) in order to be in heaven. The marriage doesn't take place on the earth and then the Christians are changed and gathered to heaven. Remember Paul said:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (WEB):

(16) For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with God’s trumpet. The dead in Christ will rise first,​

(17) then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. So we will be with the Lord forever.​

and this all hapens in an instant:

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 (WEB):

(51) Behold, I tell you a mystery. We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,​

(52) in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed.​

 

[keithr]

How can you claim that annihilation (utter destruction) is eternal punishment?

Romans 6:23 (WEB):

(23) For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.​

John 3:16 (WEB):

(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.​

The Greek word used that's translated as perish is apollumi, which means "to destroy fully". The punishment is eternal death (destruction), as opposed to eternal life.

Why would unconscious nonexistent nothings be thrown into the lake of fire?
What is left to throw? Isn't the silent nonexistence of death sufficient?

Those who are symbolically thrown into a lake of fire (their second death) are alive and have lived for around a thousand years during Christ's Millenial reign. They are not "unconscious nonexistent nothings"!

Furthermore, the utter destruction of Annihilationism is contradictory to the doctrine of a forever burning hell.

Forever burning in hell is a false doctrine! The wages of sin is death, not eternal torture.

As well as contradictory to Universal Redemption.

Everyone is redeemed and resurrected. The Church are resurrected as immortal spiirt beings who will reign with Jesus during the 1,000 year reign of Christ - Revelation 20:6 (WEB):

(6) Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over these, the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with him one thousand years.​

The rest of mankind will be resurrected as humans and will live on the earth, ruled over by Christ (head and body, Jesus and the Church).

 

[St. SteVen]

Forever burning in hell is a false doctrine!

I agree, but those who hold that doctrine to be true have biblical support.
That's the question. Some biblical doctrine has to be discounted to make room for the others.
There are contradictions.

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[St. SteVen]

Everyone is redeemed and resurrected.

In that order?

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