Feminism in the Church

[Duckybill]

What does that even mean? It makes absolutely no sense and certainly has nothing to do with my post. Is the answer to your comment "I like pickled pigs feet?" Because it makes about as much sense.

It means that you charged Jesus with teaching 'myth' and turn around and say you believe in Him and His teachings. You're right. It doesn't make sense. That's why I'm asking for you to explain.

My teacher has the Spirit. Big difference from Muslim teachers.

But I asked "who taught you?" and what you knew about Jesus before you could read? It's not really that difficult.

 

[aspen]

[/color]
It means that you charged Jesus with teaching 'myth' and turn around and say you believe in Him and His teachings. You're right. It doesn't make sense. That's why I'm asking for you to explain.

But I asked "who taught you?" and what you knew about Jesus before you could read? It's not really that difficult.

Charged? Is it a crime to teach a myth? Actually Jesus wasn't teaching the Flood Myth, He was referencing it to make a larger point. Referring to the Flood account as a myth takes nothing away from the Bible.

My mom taught me about Jesus, Ducky.....what is your point? That the information came from the Bible? You're right.....AND where did the NT come from? Eyewitness accounts and word of mouth.

 

[Duckybill]

Charged? Is it a crime to teach a myth? Actually Jesus wasn't teaching the Flood Myth, He was referencing it to make a larger point. Referring to the Flood account as a myth takes nothing away from the Bible.

Since the Bible doesn't call the Genesis Flood a myth, why do you?

My mom taught me about Jesus, Ducky.....what is your point? That the information came from the Bible? You're right.....AND where did the NT come from? Eyewitness accounts and word of mouth.

Lord bless your Mom. Did she teach you that Jesus taught 'myth'? Where did you get that idea? It matters a lot because you are challenging a large part of Biblical doctrine and many writers of the Bible to be teaching 'myth'. Who told you that the Genesis Flood is 'myth'? I don't want to believe in a myth.

 

[aspen]

Since the Bible doesn't call the Genesis Flood a myth, why do you?

1. Scientific evidence completely refutes a global flood.
2. The Ark could not have survived a global flood, nor could it have housed all the animals that the story claims it held.
3. The language used in the story indicates that it is a story.
4. Finally, the word 'myth' leaves room for a miracle of God that made all of it possible. The word 'fable' indicates 100% fiction. I believe anything is possible with God, but the Flood Myth is highly unlikely to be literal or meant to be taken literally.

We have been over this a 100 times ducky and I am sure you will be asking the same questions and labeling me in the same way after I post this. It is really not my job to convince you of my opinion. You are just going to have to deal with it.

Lord bless your Mom. Did she teach you that Jesus taught 'myth'? Where did you get that idea? It matters a lot because you are challenging a large part of Biblical doctrine and many writers of the Bible to be teaching 'myth'. Who told you that the Genesis Flood is 'myth'? I don't want to believe in a myth.

I can tell. You have been kicking and screaming ever since I first typed it. Why is it so threatening to you that the Flood story could be a myth? Big deal, ducky. The point of the story is not whether we should take a stand on if it really happened or not. I believe it is inspired. My mom taught me that Jesus was definitely a storyteller - He liked His parables, for sure.

 

[Duckybill]

1. Scientific evidence completely refutes a global flood.

So where science and Biblical miracles conflict you choose science.

2. The Ark could not have survived a global flood, nor could it have housed all the animals that the story claims it held.

Your opinion.

3. The language used in the story indicates that it is a story.

I've read it many times and didn't see any indication of that whatsoever. Not even a hint. Again and again I ask, where is your Biblical evidence?

Luke 17:26-27 (NKJV)
26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: 27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.

4. Finally, the word 'myth' leaves room for a miracle of God that made all of it possible. The word 'fable' indicates 100% fiction. I believe anything is possible with God, but the Flood Myth is highly unlikely to be literal or meant to be taken literally.

No Biblical evidence of 'myth'?

We have been over this a 100 times ducky and I am sure you will be asking the same questions and labeling me in the same way after I post this. It is really not my job to convince you of my opinion. You are just going to have to deal with it.

So you are saying it's your opinion, no Biblical proof.

I can tell. You have been kicking and screaming ever since I first typed it.

Why would I be kicking and screaming?

Why is it so threatening to you that the Flood story could be a myth? Big deal, ducky. The point of the story is not whether we should take a stand on if it really happened or not. I believe it is inspired. My mom taught me that Jesus was definitely a storyteller - He liked His parables, for sure.

The Genesis Flood account is vital Biblical doctrine. It is in several Books of the Bible. If it is not true then we might as well discount the doctrine of Jesus also. You have offered ZERO Biblical evidence against the Flood. Only that you don't believe it. Well it's in God's Book as is Jesus and if it is flawed then we are in deep trouble and Jesus is a 'myth' also.

 

[Duckybill]

You say you believe in the INCREDIBLE miracle, Jesus Christ, and yet deny the Genesis Flood to be literal. The doctrine of Jesus is a MUCH greater miracle. How could God become flesh and die on the cross? Possibly the greatest miracle of all. The Genesis Flood is quite small in comparison to the miracle of Jesus/God.

 

[aspen]

So where science and Biblical miracles conflict you choose science.

You remind me of the Pope that imprisoned Galileo for the same charge.

Your opinion.

Indeed. I have never claimed otherwise. This board is a collection of opinions about Christianity and Christian doctrine.

I've read it many times and didn't see any indication of that whatsoever. Not even a hint. Again and again I ask, where is your Biblical evidence?

Of course you haven't seen any evidence! You refuse to see anything past your own nose - you have proven it in every post you have produced on this board. It would appear that you are proud of your choice to remain blind - as if it is noble! Most can see your attitude for what it is - your imprisonment in fear.


Why would I be kicking and screaming?

Because you are terrified. I can see that in your posts. Honestly, I am surprised you can stop shaking long enough to type.

The Genesis Flood account is vital Biblical doctrine. It is in several Books of the Bible. If it is not true then we might as well discount the doctrine of Jesus also. You have offered ZERO Biblical evidence against the Flood. Only that you don't believe it. Well it's in God's Book as is Jesus and if it is flawed then we are in deep trouble and Jesus is a 'myth' also.

I reject the myth of the 'slippery slope'. It is only conjured to keep Christians from thinking past conventional ideas about doctrine - it is a fantasy propagated by ultra-conservative (terrified) pastors and the Republican propaganda machine (FOX News).

You say you believe in the INCREDIBLE miracle, Jesus Christ, and yet deny the Genesis Flood to be literal. The doctrine of Jesus is a MUCH greater miracle. How could God become flesh and die on the cross? Possibly the greatest miracle of all. The Genesis Flood is quite small in comparison to the miracle of Jesus/God.

Simple. The Flood Myth was not born of a Virgin, live, minister, give up it's life and die on cross, and then, rise from the dead for my sins. It is a non-issue.

 

[Duckybill]

Aspen, until you provide Biblical proof that the Flood was "myth" I will consider it a lie that you have told over and over.

 

[aspen]

Aspen, until you provide Biblical proof that the Flood was "myth" I will consider it a lie that you have told over and over.

You have proven that you have a rich fantasy life....so I believe you.

How about this? Until you stop derailing threads with your slanderous remarks about my beliefs about the Bible, I will consider every incident to be stalking charge against you.

Fair enough?

 

[Duckybill]

You have proven that you have a rich fantasy life....so I believe you.

Can anyone translate please?

How about this? Until you stop derailing threads with your slanderous remarks about my beliefs about the Bible, I will consider every incident to be stalking charge against you.

Fair enough?

If you can't defend your remarks you shouldn't make them. Challenging your attacks against the Bible isn't slander nor stalking. Perhaps you should be busy looking for forums that allow you to make your attacks against Jesus/God without challenges.

 

[aspen]

Bringing this thread back to the topic, what do you all believe about women pastors? Women evangelists? Do you believe it is significant that two women were the first to witness Christ's resurrection and spread the Good News?

 

[Duckybill]

Bringing this thread back to the topic, what do you all believe about women pastors? Women evangelists? Do you believe it is significant that two women were the first to witness Christ's resurrection and spread the Good News?

Significant? How so? Since Jesus appointed ONLY men to be Apostles and write the NT, no.

 

[IanLC]

God call whom he wants to call. God made man as the head and the woman as a helper and co-regent with man. Whom ever God sets as leader should lead in love, holiness, humility and under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, direction of God and upon God's word. My pastor is a woman and so are several other pastors under the United Holy Church of America (UHCA) we even have some women bishops (very few) and several licensed women ministers and preachers and ordained elders. The men and women in our church submit to each other. We were one of the first organizations to ordain women and then consecrate some women. They preach and live the gospel of Jesus Christ like any man so I have no problem with it. As long as you are called of God, saved by the blood of Jesus, filled with the Holy Spirit and preach the word of God I am fine with it male or female. As i male minister myself I admire and look up to my pastor.

 

[aspen]

God call whom he wants to call. God made man as the head and the woman as a helper and co-regent with man. Whom ever God sets as leader should lead in love, holiness, humility and under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, direction of God and upon God's word. My pastor is a woman and so are several other pastors under the United Holy Church of America (UHCA) we even have some women bishops (very few) and several licensed women ministers and preachers and ordained elders. The men and women in our church submit to each other. We were one of the first organizations to ordain women and then consecrate some women. They preach and live the gospel of Jesus Christ like any man so I have no problem with it. As long as you are called of God, saved by the blood of Jesus, filled with the Holy Spirit and preach the word of God I am fine with it male or female. As i male minister myself I admire and look up to my pastor.

Thank you for your post. I appreciate your point of view. It is helpful to hear from people who have female pastors. I was raised Presbyterian and learned how effective women pastors can be.

blessings

 

[IanLC]

Aspen are you a preacher, teacher, evangelist, pastor etc.?

 

[aspen]

Aspen are you a preacher, teacher, evangelist, pastor etc.?

I was a Presbyterian youth director for years.....now I am Catholic...Benedictine oblate. I am male, btw.

 

[Rach1370]

Bringing this thread back to the topic, what do you all believe about women pastors? Women evangelists? Do you believe it is significant that two women were the first to witness Christ's resurrection and spread the Good News?

I think it all comes back to the roles that God has laid out for us. I do not believe that women should be pastors, but this is not because women do not have wonderful insight, it's because God has called us to spread that insight in other ways. We are to mentor other women, to nurture children, outreach within the community and of course always be the helper of our own children and husband. These jobs are so important to the very groundwork and backbone of a community, church and family. Woman should not look on these tasks God has given us with disdain, wanting to job and role of men....the role of helper and supporter is an amazing role. The Holy Spirit Himself has been labelled as 'helper'...and just remember the wonderful things He does in that role.
Women should speak at seminars, write books, guide other women, study and learn...many many things! But I do not think God condones them being behind the pulpit...for a couple of reasons, but mainly for this one: Men are to be the head of women, just as Christ is the head of the Church. This is not a demeaning order...Jesus gave Himself up for the Church! But what happens to that God ordained order when a woman is pastor? The Pastor is supposed to have Biblical authority over the Church member (and in turn be under authority of the elders, so that their is no 'lording it' over everyone unrighteously)...so suddenly that woman Pastor is the head of the other men in the Church, even her own husband in Biblical matters! That totally turns God's order on it's head. It leads to confusion and disharmony.
I think when it really comes down to it, women should stick to the roles and jobs God has given us...there are heaps to keep up busy, and every single one a worthy task for the Kingdom. We shouldn't have the time to go looking into taking man's role away from him....let's face it...that's what Eve did in the garden, and what most wives have done ever since...and the divorce rates prove that it just doesn't work too well. God's way is always better.

 

[Prentis]

I think it all comes back to the roles that God has laid out for us. I do not believe that women should be pastors, but this is not because women do not have wonderful insight, it's because God has called us to spread that insight in other ways. We are to mentor other women, to nurture children, outreach within the community and of course always be the helper of our own children and husband. These jobs are so important to the very groundwork and backbone of a community, church and family. Woman should not look on these tasks God has given us with disdain, wanting to job and role of men....the role of helper and supporter is an amazing role. The Holy Spirit Himself has been labelled as 'helper'...and just remember the wonderful things He does in that role.
Women should speak at seminars, write books, guide other women, study and learn...many many things! But I do not think God condones them being behind the pulpit...for a couple of reasons, but mainly for this one: Men are to be the head of women, just as Christ is the head of the Church. This is not a demeaning order...Jesus gave Himself up for the Church! But what happens to that God ordained order when a woman is pastor? The Pastor is supposed to have Biblical authority over the Church member (and in turn be under authority of the elders, so that their is no 'lording it' over everyone unrighteously)...so suddenly that woman Pastor is the head of the other men in the Church, even her own husband in Biblical matters! That totally turns God's order on it's head. It leads to confusion and disharmony.
I think when it really comes down to it, women should stick to the roles and jobs God has given us...there are heaps to keep up busy, and every single one a worthy task for the Kingdom. We shouldn't have the time to go looking into taking man's role away from him....let's face it...that's what Eve did in the garden, and what most wives have done ever since...and the divorce rates prove that it just doesn't work too well. God's way is always better.

Amen! Very well said Rach!

It's not about hierarchy, men make a mistake when they take it like that and Lord it over women, being dominant. But it's about order. The feminist mistake I find (in the church) is to see a fault, men using hierarchy, and then going on to break both hierarchy AND order because they don't like the one part. It's the typical 'splinter in your eye, log in mine' mistake.

It's easy, on one side, you have hierarchy and order, in the middle you have order, and on the other side no hierarchy and no order. Human nature sees one end happening, and jumps to the other.

When a woman humbly takes her place, God moves! He moves in the men too, if they are out of place. Let God be the one who corrects, and then things happen! :)

I actually can say this goes both ways, I learnt it in my marriage recently. My wife was not satisfied. She might of had valid reasons, but her attitude was not right, there was an unyieldingness. And it really wasn't that bad. It was minor. But it was there. I was tempted to correct her sternly and to show her she was out of place. But I saw that doing that would only drive her into her emotions more, and would make matters worse. So I resisted the temptation, I loved her and gave her to the Lord. She spoke to an elder and then one evening it was gone! I asked her what happened and she just told me that 'the Lord had put her back into her place' :lol:

Then it also freed me up to love her, and our relationship has been better since. We allow each other to use the freedom that is in the Spirit and we trust the Lord to lign us up. She had to submit. But I had to love!

It's a beautiful order... If only we can find it!

 

[IanLC]

I kindly disagree. If there are not enough men stepping up then God uses whom He want's to use. Maybe I have a biased view since I have a female pastor and have been and fellowshiped with other churches that have and it seems their is no difference between the male and female leadership. But that is just my take if they are preaching and pastoring in Jesus name and souls are being saved and nurtured correclt then it's okay. And in the United Holy Church (UHCA) no woman just took power from a man they were given power by the man. Men and women submit to each other.

 

[Foreigner]

"So where science and Biblical miracles conflict you choose science." - Duckybill

-- Aspen, your response "You remind me of the Pope that imprisoned Galileo for the same charge."
does not address what is a legitimate question.

The Bible is replete with miracles that science states simply did not or could not have happened.

Science will tell you that Jonah could not possibly have lived inside the belly of a whale for three days.

Science will tell you there is no way that Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego could have survived the fire, let alone depart it unscathed.

Science will tell you there is no way that Moses parted the Red Sea, let alone made the ground firm enough to walk on.

Science will tell you there is no way the devil took Jesus to the mountaintop and showed him all the kingdoms of the world.

Science will tell you that there was no way that the sun was made to go backwards in the sky.

Science will tell you that there was no way Jesus fed over 5000 people with just five loaves and two fish.

Science will tell you that there is absolutely no way Jesus (or Peter) walked on water.

Science will tell you there is no way that Jesus was dead for three days and miraculously came back to life.

You have to ask yourself what you believe.

You apparently believe that the Bible is not all is is said to be.

As far as the Pope and Galileo, you will notice that the Pope took a position that was NOT supported by the Bible and that both that Pope and today's Pope Benedict believe the story of Noah is accurate.