Exploring Trinitarian Logic

[APAK]

Go back and read you post Apak.
YOU called the assemblers of the bible FANATICS.

It's there for everyone to see.
And this is turning into an argument...so I won't be replying to you.

THE TRINITY is in THE BIBLE.
What kind of a HUGE conspiracy would it have taken?
The persons in the NT would have had to plot with the writers hundreds of years later to come up with what you're talking about.

I love sci-fi, but not when it comes to theology.

You, by your own conscience and intent suddenly equated my use of the term RELIGIOUS FANATICSM of some in the 2-5th Centuries AD and twisted and equated it with your words of the ASSEMBLERs of the Bible, not I GG. See how quick you able to add your words as my words without any conscience...not good

And for this honesty problem you continue to have by adding in your own words as mine, I'm now out of patience with what you have to say. Your words are too unpredictable and my words continue to be target for your ridicule and exploitation. And for the 3rd time you accuse me of saying, your own words and ideas, as my own.

You know I will expose it every time, as I have again.

Bye

 

[Ritajanice]

I'm not just talking about being born again, but about doctrine. Everything isn't about being born again....after being born again there is so much to learn and grow in.

Of course it’s all about being Born Again, after being Born Again, what do you think that you grow in, doctrine?

What does the Bible say about spiritually mature?
Our faith in Jesus was not created to sit idle or remain stagnate but to mature and grow. What is spiritual maturity? Paul in Ephesians 4:14-15 says: “Then we will no longer be immature like children… but growing in every way more and more like Christ.”

Whose conforming me into the image of Jesus....the Spirit of course, the Bible can’t mature our spirit, it just confirms how our spirit is conformed into Jesus image....by the power of the Holy Spirit, we have that new heart and spirit within...remember?...partakers Of the divine nature....that is the biggest Honour and Privilege one can receive from God, for any of us....for without the Spirit I’d still be in darkness and alienated from the Living Spirit Of God.
The word is there of course to understand how we grow and mature in Christ, but, the word doesn’t make our spirit grow/ mature, that’s the role of the Holy Spirit, whose leading and authority were under, the moment our spirit is reborn, only then can we be conformed into Jesus image....
We grow in spirit, whose Spirit are we growing in?..how do we communicate with God, through his Living Spirit, check it out with doctrine?

It’s the Spirits role in us that grows and matures us, how can I grow in Christ...just by reading a Bible?

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth


We do not worship the Bible.....we worship the Living God in spirit.

Short commentary.
The Bible says in John 4:24“God is a Spirit…” hence, we can only make contact with Him through our spirits. When He wants to communicate with you, He does so directly with your spirit, not your head or your mind; it's a Spirit-to-spirit communication.

I don't think too many of us even knew the term born again until we read it in the bible

Wow!!....are you saying that you only know what Born Again means by only reading about it in the Bible...the Bible confirms how our spirit is reborn.....= by supernatural divine Living heart revelation....how else could I possibly know that my spirit is Born Again, other than by Gods Living testimony.....the Bible even confirms that?

What do you think “ Spirit gives birth to spirit “ means?

sis....

I knew in my spirit that is was Born Again, having never read a Bible...God speaks to our heart, what does he say about seeking him out with all our heart.we may be on a different level of faith, Lizbeth.

all we knew at the time it happened was Christ and Him crucified .....we hardly knew what on earth had just happened to us, only that we were changed and God and Jesus were real....until we started reading the bible and hearing it preached. Think I will rest my case right there.

Not for me Sis...as soon as the Spirit testified with my spirit that I was God’s child, I knew straight away that my spirit was Born Again, it was Alive in Christ.

That’s all I knew, “ Born Again “, the Holy Spirit has been growing and maturing me in Christ ever since.....reading the word is 100% necessary, it confirms everything that the Spirit is teaching us...

The Bible is not the Living Spirit Of God...it’s what I refer to every time I believe God is speaking to my spirit/ heart..

God has always communicated with my spirit/ heart...via His Living testimony, who indwells my heart/ spirit...where did my new heart and spirit that I have within come from, the Bible?...of course not, it was a wonderful gift from God, supernatural faith, that was planted by God in my spirit/ heart, penetrated my heart/ spirit and taken up permanent residence in my spirit, Gods seed ( Living) is what penetrates our heart and starts to grow, a Living seed....Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed....

I believe he speaks to you via his word.....you and I understand the Bible differently...

God speaks to you one way, he speaks to me a different way, we are all part of the vine....God uses us all very differently to represent his Son, that is my testimony/ belief.

Personally, I think we all need to respect where each other are regarding spiritual growth, we’re all most definitely understanding the word differently.......that’s for sure.....

One thing we all have in common and know is, no one can come to the Son except through the Father...

God gives you different knowledge about himself, he does the same imo to everyone else.

We all testify of God in the way that he has brought us to testify....” differently “......

I think it’s a shame when we start pointing the finger , when others don’t understand us....I think we need to be far more patient with one another, ...then I get whispered in my ear...whose patience do you need....the patience of the Spirit of course....anyway just my thoughts...

Short commentary.

The psalmist in Psalm 84 also says that those whose hearts are set on pilgrimage are blessed. Our natural selves long for a home, for stability, for comfort, and for some measure of predictability. A heart set on pilgrimage recognizes that moving toward God often means leaving behind those very things.

 

[ProDeo]

Sorry, none of those verses say that Jesus is fully God, Jesus was one with Gods Spirit......which means that he carried out all that the Fathers Spirit asked him to do.

Who then was Jesus BEFORE He descended from Heaven and became one of us?

. Scripture says Jesus partook in creation with God the Father.

. Scripture says the Word was God and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. The apostle John understood, why don't you?

. Scripture says - I and the Father are one. And the Jews picked up stones to kill Him saying - “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.” The Jews understood, why don't you?

. Jesus said - Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am. And again the Jews picked up stones to kill Him because they understood He was calling Himself Yahweh hinting it was Him (still being in Heaven) who visited Moses during his burning bush experience. The Jews understood, why don't you?

. Jesus said - Son, your sins are forgiven. And what the Jews say? - Why does this man speak like that? He is blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone? The Jews understood, why don't you?

. Jesus (captured) before the High Priest of that time said - I am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven. The last drop -
Mark 14:63 And the high priest tore his garments and said, “What further witnesses do we need?
Mark 14:64 You have heard his blasphemy. What is your decision?” And they all condemned him as deserving death.
The High Priest understood, why don't you?

Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”
Thomas understood, why don't you?

Filipp 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Paul understood, why don't you?

Isa 44:6 Thus said Jehovah, king of Israel, And his Redeemer, Jehovah of Hosts: I am the first, and I the last
Jesus - Fear not, I am the first and the last (Rev 1:17)
Jesus - I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. (Rev 22:13)
Jesus again calling Himself Yahweh.
Time to believe Jesus?

But you can always keep on arguing that the text God the Son is not mentioned in Scripture.

 

[Magdala]

Jesus was one with Gods Spirit......which means that he carried out all that the Fathers Spirit asked him to do.

If that's all that "the Father and I are one" meant, the Pharisees wouldn't have considered it blasphemy and thus took up stones to kill Jesus over it.

It's a way of saying that He's God, the Pharisees refused to accept that, and thus they said He was speaking blasphemy and tried to kill Him.

 

[Magdala]

He had to be divine in part, as he was the Son Of God....that goes without saying...he just wasn’t fully God, so far that is my belief.

God is Who He is. God doesn't have biological children the way humans do, and thus one can't define "Son of God" in human terms. It's another way of saying that He's God.

Jesus is the Word that was begotten by God: the Holy Spirit, by becoming human (Jn. 1:14), the same Word that John said is God in Jn. 1:1. The Word is part of God. Human sight or any other human sense never saw God before He as the Word became incarnate and cannot physically see the other two parts of God: the Father and the Holy Spirit, but sees Them in the works which were or are carried out by Them.

The one God is triune: the Father (the Thought), the Son (the Word), and the Holy Spirit, each distinct, united as one because They are the same Essence: love.

 

[Ritajanice]

If that's all that "the Father and I are one" meant, the Pharisees wouldn't have considered it blasphemy and thus took up stones to kill Jesus over it.

It's a way of saying that He's God, the Pharisees refused to accept that, and thus they said He was speaking blasphemy and tried to kill Him.

According to you and others opinions, yes,..I stand by what I believe it means.

A Born Again is also one in spirit with God, only we aren’t the Son Of God...

We’re reunited back to our Father God in spirit..hence “ Born Of The Spirit “ ..we have received a Living seed when we are Born Again?

Jesus was God’s Spirit nSon , he was not fully God, divine in part, most definitely.

 

[Ritajanice]

God is Who He is.

God is a Living Spirit, by whose testimony?

God doesn't have biological children the way humans do. So, one can't define "Son of God" in human terms. Jesus is the Word that was begotten by God: the Holy Spirit, by becoming human (Jn. 1:14), the Holy Spirit, the same Word that John wrote is God in Jn. 1:1. The Word is part of God. Human sight or any other human sense never saw God before He as the Word became incarnate and cannot physically see the other two parts of God: the Father and the Holy Spirit, but sees Them in the works which were or are carried out by Them.

According to your understanding of scripture...I disagree with your understanding / interpretation of scripture and have explained why.

The one God is triune: the Father (the Thought), the Son (the Word), and the Holy Spirit, each distinct, united as one because They are the same Essence: love.

We have one God who we worship, my Spirit Father God.

We have the Son Of God His Name is Jesus.

We then have Gods Living testimony the Holy Spirit.

Jesus and the Holy Spirit are united in Gods truth...they are NOT God...

Yes, they are of the same essence of God, who is Love...they just aren’t God....Jesus and the Holy Spirit do / did Gods will.

Who do you think births our spirit into God?

Who is Gods messenger on the earth today?

Do you understand that the Holy Spirit, Gods messenger is Alive And Active, he is also,everywhere?

 

[Magdala]

Jesus was one with Gods Spirit......which means that he carried out all that the Fathers Spirit asked him to do.

If doing the will of the Father was all that "the Father and I are one" meant, that's not blasphemous and worthy of death, and yet the Pharisees considered those words blasphemous and attempted to kill Him. Therefore, there's more to those words than what you'd rather believe.

 

[Ritajanice]

If doing the will of the Father was all that "the Father and I are one" meant, that's not blasphemous and worthy of death, and yet the Pharisees considered those words blasphemous and attempted to kill Him. Therefore, there's more to those words than what you'd rather believe.

Sorry, your post makes no sense to me, with respect.

Maybe you can answer the other questions I asked of you?

By the way , therefore there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ...

The Born Again don’t have to understand anything about any trinity....what’s required for salvation is to be supernaturally birthed, Spirit gives birth to spirit?

We must be Born Again to see the Kingdom Of God.

Which means we are spiritually reunited back to our Spirit Father God, when our spirit has been birthed?

 

[Magdala]

I disagree with your understanding/interpretation of scripture and have explained why.

Scripture says that the Word is God. (Jn. 1:1)
Scripture says that Jesus is the Word in the flesh. (Jn. 1:14)

What's to disagree about that?

 

[Magdala]

Sorry, your post makes no sense to me, with respect.

If doing the will of the Father was all that "the Father and I are one" meant, that's not blasphemous and worthy of death. Is that not true?

And yet the Pharisees considered those words blasphemous and attempted to kill Him. Is that not true?

 

[Ritajanice]

Who then was Jesus BEFORE He descended from Heaven and became one of us?

. Scripture says Jesus partook in creation with God the Father.

. Scripture says the Word was God and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. The apostle John understood, why don't you?

. Scripture says - I and the Father are one. And the Jews picked up stones to kill Him saying - “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.” The Jews understood, why don't you?

. Jesus said - Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am. And again the Jews picked up stones to kill Him because they understood He was calling Himself Yahweh hinting it was Him (still being in Heaven) who visited Moses during his burning bush experience. The Jews understood, why don't you?

. Jesus said - Son, your sins are forgiven. And what the Jews say? - Why does this man speak like that? He is blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone? The Jews understood, why don't you?

. Jesus (captured) before the High Priest of that time said - I am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven. The last drop -
Mark 14:63 And the high priest tore his garments and said, “What further witnesses do we need?
Mark 14:64 You have heard his blasphemy. What is your decision?” And they all condemned him as deserving death.
The High Priest understood, why don't you?

Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”
Thomas understood, why don't you?

Filipp 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Paul understood, why don't you?

Isa 44:6 Thus said Jehovah, king of Israel, And his Redeemer, Jehovah of Hosts: I am the first, and I the last
Jesus - Fear not, I am the first and the last (Rev 1:17)
Jesus - I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. (Rev 22:13)
Jesus again calling Himself Yahweh.
Time to believe Jesus?

But you can always keep on arguing that the text God the Son is not mentioned in Scripture.

You have posted your belief regarding the trinity..

Jesus was the first of many who will come to know him in spirit....once our spirit is Born Again we are Brothers and Sisters with Christ in spirit, we are partakers Of the divine nature...we are not fully God..just like Jesus is not fully God...

As you know, I don’t fully understand the trinity, so far from being led through scripture by the Spirit...he has brought me to no heart revelation that Jesus is God...I think it will always remain a mystery.

On saying that, I sway more to being a non trinitarian so far....makes much more sense on the spiritual side of things that I can see ..

 

[Ritajanice]

If doing the will of the Father was all that "the Father and I are one" meant, that's not blasphemous and worthy of death. Is that not true?

And yet the Pharisees considered those words blasphemous and attempted to kill Him. Is that not true?

Once again all my spirit questions evaded.

Why not just say, if you have no understanding of my questions?

I won’t repeat this again..therefore there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ.

We are clothed in the righteousness of Christ..once our spirit is Born Again, we are right before God and he sees our sin no more...

What has the Pharisees got to do with my belief in the trinity @LuxMundi ?

 

[Magdala]

Once again all my spirit questions evaded.

I'll go back and look. Are you evading these?

"If doing the will of the Father was all that "the Father and I are one" meant, that's not blasphemous and worthy of death. Is that not true?

And yet the Pharisees considered those words blasphemous and attempted to kill Him. Is that not true?"

 

[Ritajanice]

I'll go back and look. Are you evading these?

I evade nothing, if I don’t understand I’ll let you know, do you understand my questions @LuxMundi ?

"If doing the will of the Father was all that "the Father and I are one" meant, that's not blasphemous and worthy of death.

This makes no sense...who is blaspheming?

A Born Again does not have to believe in any trinity to be saved from eternal damnation @LuxMundi ..do you understand this?

Or do you believe that one must believe the trinity to be saved from eternal damnation?

What does eternal damnation mean?

Is that not true?

The Son was sent to do God’s will on earth, he did it...what has blasphemy got to do with anything?

Everything the Father asked the Son to do, he did it...Jesus was God’s spokesperson while on earth, he was with God from the beginning, he was not God from the beginning..God knows the beginning to the end...he also knows the time of Jesus return....Jesus has no knowledge or the time of his return..there’s another reason why Jesus isn’t fully God, he’s his Son, and sits with his Father in heaven....

And yet the Pharisees considered those words blasphemous and attempted to kill Him. Is that not true?"

I have already answered your question.

What has the Pharisees got to do with my belief/ understanding of the trinity?

Direct me to the scripture you are talking about @LuxMundi ..regarding the Pharisees .not your opinions.thanks.

 

[Ritajanice]

And yet the Pharisees considered those words blasphemous and attempted to kill Him. Is that not true?

What has this got to do with my belief in the trinity?

We’re in this day and age..not 2,000 years ago...

 

[Ritajanice]

Who then was Jesus BEFORE He descended from Heaven and became one of us?

What do you mean before he descended from Heaven?

Mary got pregnant by the word/ seed of God.

Jesus grew in her womb from God’s word/ seed...he didn’t descend from heaven fully formed as Jesus....the Living seed that got Mary pregnant had to grow in her womb...he was born a baby , a special partly divine baby, his name was Jesus.

 

[Magdala]

I disagree with your understanding/interpretation of scripture and have explained why.

Scripture says that the Word is God. (Jn. 1:1)
Scripture says that Jesus is the Word in the flesh. (Jn. 1:14)

What's to disagree about that?

The Son was sent to do God’s will on earth, he did it...what has blasphemy got to do with anything?

I have no idea what you are trying to say.

In response to Jesus saying, "I and the Father are one", the Pharisees attempted to stone Him to death for saying those words because they considered it blasphemous. But if doing the will of the Father is all that those words meant like you say, they had no reason to want to kill Him for that, and yet they tried. Therefore, there's more meaning behind those words than what you'd rather believe.

What's your explanation for why the Pharisees attempted to kill Jesus for blasphemy for saying "I and the Father are one" if it only meant that He does the will of the Father which isn't blasphemous?

 

[Ritajanice]

Scripture says that the Word is God. (Jn. 1:1)
Scripture says that Jesus is the Word in the flesh. (Jn. 1:14)

What's to disagree about that?



In response to Jesus saying, "I and the Father are one", the Pharisees attempted to stone Him to death for saying those words because they considered it blasphemous. But if doing the will of the Father is all that those words meant like you say, they had no reason to want to kill Him for that, and yet they tried. Therefore, there's more meaning behind those words than what you'd rather believe.

Sorry you have not posted scripture...I don’t understand your words above with respect, they make no sense..please post scripture.thanks.

What's your explanation for why the Pharisees attempted to kill Jesus for blasphemy for saying "I and the Father are one" if it only meant that He does the will of the Father which isn't blasphemous?

Already answered your questions.

I await you to answer my Spirit questions...if you don’t understand them, then just say as they are spiritually discerned.?

I have no idea what you are trying to say...post the relevant scripture?.please.

 

[Magdala]

What do you mean before he descended from Heaven?

John said that the Word is God (Jn. 1:1). The Word was in Heaven before He descended from Heaven by becoming conceived by the Holy Spirit, and born from the Virgin, and named "Jesus".