Exploring Trinitarian Logic

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face2face

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We are Born Of The Spirit, partaker Of the divine nature.....

The Holy Spirit indwells our spirit, making us “ partaker “ Of the divine nature....we have a new heart and spirit within.......
I understand this is what you believe but the Word is clear on this subject.

"To an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you" (1 Peter 1:4, ESV).

By promise Rita!

1 Peter 1:5 (ESV) states:

"Who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

It's not revealed yet - be patient!

F2F
 

Ritajanice

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I understand this is what you believe but the Word is clear on this subject.

"To an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you" (1 Peter 1:4, ESV).

By promise Rita!

1 Peter 1:5 (ESV) states:

"Who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."
We can’t enter heaven if our spirit isn’t Born Again @face2face .....as we would still be in our sin, no sin can enter heaven......our sin must be forgiven by God then we must be Born Of The Spirit to see the Kingdom Of God, just as his word says.
It’s always best to post scripture in it’s full context @face2face ....not pulling out random verses that make no sense, as they are out of context.....shown full context of scripture below.

We are both on different levels of spiritual understanding......no problem....
It's not revealed yet - be patient!

F2F
Short commentary.

For the Jews in Yeshua's day, to be born a Jew was to be born into the Kingdom of God. Nicodemus thinks that his birth alone as an Israelite assures him of seeing the Kingdom of God. But Yeshua tells him that his natural birth (as an Israelite) will not save him, and that he must be reborn from above


The word certainly is clear, we must be Born Again to see the Kingdom Of God....this day and age while on the earth, we are the spirit children of God....you believe this doesn’t happen not until we are in heaven?

That is your belief, which I respect, but, disagree 100% ....I wondered why i am not understanding your posts...I now know why...no problem...I’m glad that has been brought to my attention.....as it helps in understanding where you are coming from.


1 Peter 1
Berean Standard BiblePar ▾
A Greeting from Peter
(2 Peter 1:1–2)
1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To the elect who are exiles of the Dispersion throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, chosena 2according to the foreknowledge of God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by His blood:
Grace and peace be yours in abundance.
A Living Hope
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By His great mercy He has given us new birthb into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, reserved in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God’s power for the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
6In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in various trials 7so that the proven character of your faith—more precious than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may result in praise, glory, and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ
.
8Though you have not seen Him, you love Him; and though you do not see Him now, you believe in Him and rejoice with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9now that you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
10Concerning this salvation, the prophets who foretold the grace to come to you searched and investigated carefully, 11trying to determine the time and setting to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow.
12It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, when they foretold the things now announced by those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.
A Call to Holiness
(Hebrews 12:14–17)
13Therefore prepare your minds for action.c Be sober-minded. Set your hope fully on the grace to be given you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. 14As obedient children, do not conform to the passions of your former ignorance. 15But just as He who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do, 16for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”d
17Since you call on a Father who judges each one’s work impartially, conduct yourselves in reverent fear during your stay as foreigners. 18For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life you inherited from your forefathers, 19but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or spot. 20He was known before the foundation of the world, but was revealed in the last times for your sake.
21Through Him you believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and glorified Him; and so your faith and hope are in God.
The Enduring Word
(Isaiah 40:6–8)
22Since you have purified your souls by obedience to the truth so that you have a genuine love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from a pure heart.e 23For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24For,
“All flesh is like grass,
and all its glory like the flowers of the field;
the grass withers and the flowers fall,
25but the word of the Lord stands forever.”f
And this is the word that was proclaimed to you.
 
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Ritajanice

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No one enters Heaven

Jesus told Nicodemus, “You must be born again” (John 3:7). In fact, Jesus said, “Unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God” (John 3:3). Jesus was telling Nicodemus that no matter what good he did on the outside, he needed changing on the inside.
No human body enters heaven...our spirit does once it’s been Born Of The Spirit.

As soon as my body dies, my spirit will go straight to heaven and I will see God in his full glory...you must be Born Again to see the Kingdom Of God....I’ll stick with Gods Living testimony who is the Holy Spirit...then the Bible confirms what the Spirit witnesses/ testifies to my/ our heart/ spirit.....which apparently you have no understanding of....as you don’t believe that we must become Born Again on the earth today......how else can we communicate with God and understand his word if our spirit isn’t Born Again.....the Bible is full of spiritual information.....the natural man would have no understanding of spiritual matters @face2face as they are spiritually discerned.
 
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face2face

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Jesus told Nicodemus, “You must be born again” (John 3:7). In fact, Jesus said, “Unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God” (John 3:3). Jesus was telling Nicodemus that no matter what good he did on the outside, he needed changing on the inside.

No human body enters heaven...our spirit does once it’s been Born Of The Spirit.

As soon as my body dies, my spirit will go straight to heaven and I will see God in his full glory...you must be Born Again to see the Kingdom Of God....I’ll stick with Gods Living testimony who is the Holy Spirit...then the Bible confirms what the Spirit witnesses/ testifies to my/ our heart/ spirit.....which apparently you have no understanding of....as you don’t believe that we must become Born Again on the earth today......how else can we communicate with God and understand his word if our spirit isn’t Born Again.....the Bible is full of spiritual information.....the natural man would have no understanding of spiritual matters @face2face as they are spiritually discerned.
Nothing enters Heaven Rita. You don't have anything in you which is eternal. All you have is the knowledge of God's Word which is Spirit and that ceases upon death....hence the resurrection!

F2F
 

face2face

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@Ritajanice

Psalm 146:4 "When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish."
 

Brakelite

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Indeed, Genesis 3:15 promises Christ's coming:

"I (God) will put enmity (hatred) between you (the Serpent) and the woman, and between your offspring (Cain, etc.) and her offspring (Christ's bride); He (Christ) shall bruise your (Serpent's) head, and you (Serpent) shall bruise His heel (Christ)."

This verse highlights the two lines of humanity:

The Seed of the Woman versus the Seed of the Serpent.

The wound (temporary) to Christ’s heel symbolizes His time in the tomb, complete death for three days. Meanwhile, the blow to the Serpent’s head represents a fatal strike, as God, through Christ’s victory over sin's flesh was final and decisive.

You can see it's unavoidable for Christ to have been the "Seed of the Woman!" and suffer accordingly.

F2F
There was that prophecy convening the See of the woma, but Who was it that walked with Adam and Eve in the garden, and spoke to them that message of hope?
 

Ritajanice

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Nothing enters Heaven Rita.

Gods word proves you wrong.

A Born Again is not only being conformed into Jesus image, we are also his representatives?

You should see change in a Born Again...of course this takes time as it can only be done in the power of the Holy Spirit......as we grow in spiritual maturity, we think like Jesus , we become more and more like Jesus in our nature......all biblical my friend.
This all happens when we die does it @face2face ?

Romans 8​

New International Version​

Life Through the Spirit​

8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[a] free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh,[b] God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.[c] And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.
9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life[d] because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of[e] his Spirit who lives in you
.
12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship.[f] And by him we cry, “Abba,[g] Father.” 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

Present Suffering and Future Glory​

18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19 For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. 20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that[h] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.
22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.
26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[i] have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified;those he justified, he also glorified.

More Than Conquerors​

31 What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written:
“For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”[j]
37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[k] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
You don't have anything in you which is eternal.
I am not only a partaker Of the divine nature i am also a spirit child of God, Born Again of imperishable seed ....wow!... I am shocked yet not surprised that you don’t know what it means to be Born Of The Spirit...the word tells you that you are in error...as we have the indwelling Holy Spirit ...The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are the children of God and yet you deny this...
All you have is the knowledge of God's Word which is Spirit and that ceases upon death....hence the resurrection!
I have been Born Again of imperishable seed, Gods Living testimony witnesses that to my heart / spirit all day every day for the past 33 yrs...unfortunately what you say is not truth...Gods word backs up His Living testimonies truth...which unfortunately you deny...
Nope, my spirit is free from eternal damnation.Born Again and free from eternal damnation.

We can’t be conformed to Jesus image without being Born Of The Spirit....we are being prepared for heaven as the spirit children of God....
Romans 8:29
Audio Cross Study Comm Greek
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.

New Living Translation
For God knew his people in advance, and he chose them to become like his Son, so that his Son would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.

English Standard Version
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

Berean Standard Bible
For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.
 
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face2face

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There was that prophecy convening the See of the woma, but Who was it that walked with Adam and Eve in the garden, and spoke to them that message of hope?
The footsteps of an angel!
 

face2face

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Gods word proves you wrong.

A Born Again is not only being conformed into Jesus image, we are also his representatives?

You should see change in a Born Again...of course this takes time as it can only be done in the power of the Holy Spirit......as we grow in spiritual maturity, we think like Jesus , we become more and more like Jesus in our nature......all biblical my friend.
This all happens when we die does it @face2face ?

Romans 8​

New International Version​

Life Through the Spirit​

8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[a] free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh,[b] God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.[c] And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.
9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life[d] because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of[e] his Spirit who lives in you
.
12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship.[f] And by him we cry, “Abba,[g] Father.” 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

Present Suffering and Future Glory​

18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19 For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. 20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that[h] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.
22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.
26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[i] have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified;those he justified, he also glorified.

More Than Conquerors​

31 What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written:
“For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”[j]
37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[k] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I am not only a partaker Of the divine nature i am also a spirit child of God, Born Again of imperishable seed ....wow!... I am shocked yet not surprised that you don’t know what it means to be Born Of The Spirit...the word tells you that you are in error...as we have the indwelling Holy Spirit ...The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are the children of God and yet you deny this...

I have been Born Again of imperishable seed, Gods Living testimony witnesses that to my heart / spirit all day every day for the past 33 yrs...unfortunately what you say is not truth...Gods word backs up His Living testimonies truth...which unfortunately you deny...

Nope, my spirit is free from eternal damnation.Born Again and free from eternal damnation.

We can’t be conformed to Jesus image without being Born Of The Spirit....we are being prepared for heaven as the spirit children of God....
Romans 8:29
Audio Cross Study Comm Greek
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.

New Living Translation
For God knew his people in advance, and he chose them to become like his Son, so that his Son would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.

English Standard Version
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

Berean Standard Bible
For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.
“The dead know nothing...their love, their hatred, and their envy is now perished” (Ecc. 9:5,6). There is no “wisdom in the grave” (Ecc. 9:10) - no thinking and therefore no consciousness.

F2F
 
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Ritajanice

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“The dead know nothing.
We aren’t dead though, our spirit is Alive in Christ,/ reborn/ regenerated/ Born Of The Spirit....all = The Living spiritual birth....Born Again by divine heart revelation...
A Born Again are clothed in the righteousness of Christ?
All biblical.

Ephesians 2
Berean Standard Bible Par ▾
Alive with Christ
(Colossians 2:6–23)
1And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and indulging its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath.
4But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.a
One in Christ
(Philippians 2:1–4)
11Therefore remember that formerly you who are Gentiles in the flesh and called uncircumcised by the so-called circumcision (that done in the body by human hands)— 12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.
14For He Himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has torn down the dividing wall of hostility 15by abolishing in His flesh the law of commandments and decrees. He did this to create in Himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace 16and reconciling both of them to God in one body through the cross, by which He put to death their hostility.
17He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18For through Him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
Christ Our Cornerstone
(Isaiah 28:14–22; 1 Corinthians 3:10–15; 1 Peter 2:1–8)
19Therefore you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of God’s household, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus Himself as the cornerstone. 21In Him the whole building is fitted together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord.22And in Him you too are being built together into a dwelling place for God in His Spirit.
..their love, their hatred, and their envy is now perished” (Ecc. 9:5,6). There is no “wisdom in the grave” (Ecc. 9:10) - no thinking and therefore no consciousness.

F2F
Ive already shown you your error, using Gods word, regarding the Born Again who represent Jesus who are being conformed into his image..

Ambassadors for Christ

11Therefore, since we know what it means to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men. What we are is clear to God, and I hope it is clear to your conscience as well.12We are not commending ourselves to you again. Instead, we are giving you an occasion to be proud of us, so that you can answer those who take pride in appearances rather than in the heart.

13If we are out of our mind, it is for God; if we are of sound mind, it is for you.14For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that One died for all, therefore all died. 15And He died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died for them and was raised again.

16So from now on we regard no one according to the flesh. Although we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.a The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come!

18All this is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, not counting men’s trespasses against them. And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation
.

20Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making His appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ: Be reconciled to God.21God made Him who knew no sin to be sinb on our behalf, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.
 

TheHC

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...if he [Jesus] had, had a sinful nature then he could not have atoned for our sins, ?

So he was God’s perfection growing in Mary’s womb, without sin?

The first Adam sinned, the second Adam was sinless, and was the atonement for our sins,.....without Jesus being perfect in every way, there would be no way back to the Father,
Yes, very good!

Justice according to YHWH’s (Jehovah’s) Law to Israel was ‘tooth for tooth, eye for eye.’ IOW, if a tooth was lost / taken, a tooth had to be replaced / given.

What Adam lost for his offspring - the entire human race - was perfect human life.

Was Adam created perfect? Yes.

The evidence for it, are these facts (please bear with me):
Adam, even after he sinned, still had a long lifespan! 930 years!

And look at (read about) A&E’s immediate descendants: even 9 generations later (Noah), they were living over 900 years! It was only after the Flood (maybe due to the Earth no longer having the vapor / water canopy which had served to dilute / disperse / dissipate the Sun’s cosmic rays reaching humans (?) ), when lifespans began to shorten, somewhat drastically.

Abraham lived to be 175. Jacob died at 147. Joshua, a few generations later, was only 110.

The Bible reveals a gradual shortening of individuals’ lifespans.
This indicates our imperfection (our sinful condition which results in death - Romans 5:12) is related to something genetic, what we inherited.

That should be enough evidence to reason on, but there’s something else…
At Luke 3:38, recounting the genealogy of Jesus, says
“son of Eʹnosh, son of Seth, son of Adam, son of God.”

Does it seem likely that God, the source of life (Psalm 36:9), would create children with a desire to live forever (Ecclesiastes 3:11), but then not give them the ability to do it? That’s not loving.

No, death for His earthly children was never part of God’s purpose.

So going back to my first statement, life for life, tooth for tooth… what Adam lost for us, was perfect human life. What Jesus gave for us, was his perfect human life. It perfectly matched what Adam lost! Who provided this sacrifice? Well, Jesus of course, but he belonged to his Father, his God.

Yes, “God loved the world so much that He gave His only begotten son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed, but have everlasting life.” John 3:16

This helps us to see another wonderful aspect and value of Christ’s sacrifice: it even provides for the Resurrection, that those who never knew Christ or his God & Father Jehovah, will be brought back to life on earth. They will be given the opportunity to accurately learn about God’s love, and exercise faith in His Son.


Acts 24:15 & John 5:28,29 reference that future resurrection… The “judgment” mentioned there, is about how the unrighteous will respond and act after they are brought back to life and taught the truth.

They will be included with other “meek” ones, who “will inherit the Earth.” -Matthew 5:5; Psalm 37:10,11,29; Revelation 21:3,4.

We are to pray for these things: “Thy Kingdom come, Thy Will be done on earth.” Matthew 6:9,10

You might be wondering, “What about those going to heaven?”

If you are, if you’d like to discuss it, let us know (@Aunty Jane & I).
We will be happy to help with that.
 
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Ritajanice

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Yes, very good!

Justice according to YHWH’s (Jehovah’s) Law to Israel was ‘tooth for tooth, eye for eye.’ IOW, if a tooth was lost / taken, a tooth had to be given.

What Adam lost for his offspring - the entire human race - was perfect human life.

Was Adam created perfect? Yes.

The evidence for it, are these facts (please bear with me):
Adam, even after he sinned, still had a long lifespan! 930 years!

And look at (read about) A&E’s immediate descendants: even 9 generations later (Noah), was living over 900 years! It was only after the Flood (maybe due to the Earth no longer having the vapor / water canopy which had served to dilute / disperse / dissipate the Sun’s cosmic rays reaching humans (?) ), when lifespans began to shorten, somewhat drastically.

Abraham lived to be 175. Jacob died at 147. Joshua, a few generations later, was only 110.

The Bible reveals a gradual shortening of individuals’ lifespans.
This indicates our imperfection (our sinful condition which results in death - Romans 5:12) is related to something genetic, what we inherited.

That should be enough evidence to reason on, but there’s something else…
At Luke 3:38, recounting the genealogy of Jesus, says
“son of Eʹnosh, son of Seth, son of Adam, son of God.”

Does it seem likely that God, the source of life (Psalm 36:9), would create children with a desire to live forever (Ecclesiastes 3:11), but then not give them the ability to do it? That’s not loving.

No, death for His earthly children was never part of God’s purpose.

So going back to my first statement, life for life, tooth for tooth… what Adam lost for us, was perfect human life. What Jesus gave for us, was his perfect human life. It perfectly matched what Adam lost!

Yes, “God loved the world so much that He gave His only begotten son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed, but have everlasting life.” John 3:16

This helps us to see another wonderful aspect and value of Christ’s sacrifice: it even provides for the Resurrection, that those who never knew Christ or his God & Father Jehovah, will be brought back to life on earth. They will be given the opportunity to accurately learn about God’s love, and exercise faith in His Son.


Acts 24:15 references that future resurrection… The “judgment” mentioned there, is about how the unrighteous will respond and act after they are brought back to life and taught the truth.

They will be included with other “meek” ones, who “will inherit the Earth.” -Matthew 5:5; Psalm 37:10,11,29; Revelation 21:3,4.

We are to pray for these things: “Thy Kingdom come, Thy Will be done on earth.” Matthew 6:9,10
Thank you for your long summary of what you believe, I will give it a good read later...
 
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Ritajanice

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Acts 24:15 & John 5:28,29 reference that future resurrection… The “judgment” mentioned there, is about how the unrighteous will respond and act after they are brought back to life and taught the truth
When we become Born Again our spirit comes Alive in Christ?

See scripture above that I posted.

How could I possibly know God @TheHC ...if my spirit wasn’t Born Again?

The Born Again are reconciled back to God via their spirit....where can we know of God other than our spirit?

Bible reading isn’t enough to know God in Spirit....it’s a start...but we must be regenerated to have communion with God.
We communicate with God via our spirit and the Holy Spirit, he indwells our spirit, hence Born Of The Spirit....
That’s why God says we must be Born Again to see the Kingdom Of God?

The word says that no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit......I needed that Living testimony to know who God is...Gods Living testimony is the Living Holy Spirit....the Holy Spirit is not a Bible....he is a “ Living “ very much Alive Spirit, who indwell the heart/ spirit of his children.
 
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TheHC

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How could I possibly know God @TheHC ...if my spirit wasn’t Born Again?
“Born again” became possible after Christ, right? (His sacrifice made that possible.)

Did Abraham know God? Certainly.

Did King David? Yes, he wrote about many of Jehovah God’s qualities.

Noah….Moses….Daniel. On and on.
 
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face2face

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@Ritajanice

1 Peter 1:23 Since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God.

It's enlightenment to the Gospel.

Its the Spirit Word working on the mind of a believer which Paul states is the renewing of our minds

Romans 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

F2F
 

Ritajanice

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“Born again” became possible after Christ, right? (His sacrifice made that possible.)

Did Abraham know God? Certainly.

Did King David? Yes, he wrote about many of Jehovah God’s qualities.

Noah….Moses….Daniel. On and on.
I’m talking about now, not 2,000 years ago...

We must be Born Again to communicate with the Spirit Of God, I’m just going by his word.

Without the Spirit he does not recognise us and scripture says, that if we don’t have the Spirit then we are none of his.

So...how would we know that we have the Spirit Of God, residing in our heart/ spirit?
 

Ritajanice

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@Ritajanice

1 Peter 1:23 Since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God.

It's enlightenment to the Gospel.

Its the Spirit Word working on the mind of a believer which Paul states is the renewing of our minds

Romans 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

F2F
That is what you believe.i disagree ..so does scripture...we were chosen and predestined to become Born Again and to be conformed into the image of Jesus...I’ve already posted much scripture on the subject.

How can the renewing of our minds take place if we aren’t Born Again...it can’t....because without being Born Of The Spirit, how would you know the Living God...by your own testimony reading the word...I think not...we have a living testimony..his name is the Holy Spirit.

The Spirit does not indwell our mind, he indwells our spirit, hence Born Of The Spirit....we are spirit children.
 

Ritajanice

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1 Peter 1:23 Since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable,
What seed are we Born Again of @face2face ...the Bible...or the Living seed of God, the Living Holy Spirit?

What seed penetrates the heart/ spirit of Gods child, then takes up residence in our spirit?
through the living and abiding word of God.
Who do you think the Living word of God is...it’s not the Bible...it’s the Living Holy Spirit, ..who brings our spirit Alive in Christ, the Bible or Gods Living witness His Living Holy Spirit?

Gods word confirms the testimony of the Living Holy Spirit, @face2face ...it’s all over the Bible...I’ve posted enough scripture on the subject....

The Spirit testifies Of God’s truth to our spirit, check it out with scripture , it’s all there, it can’t be missed and it can’t be dismissed.
 
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