Exploring Trinitarian Logic

[face2face]

Probably a "created being"-I wouldn't be surprised if @face2face believes this.

J.

Well the first truth posted in a very long time Johann. Your sleep will be sweeter for it!
F2F

 

[face2face]

What does "first born of every creature" mean to you?

In the context it means Jesus is the firstborn of every creature.

The firstborn of all creation" is qualified in verse 18 to be "the firstborn from the dead"

Do you think animals will be raised David?

 

[David in NJ]

Well can you answer my post or not David, else I'm moving on....

Hockey game on..........not avoiding you

 

[David in NJ]

In the context it means Jesus is the firstborn of every creature.

The firstborn of all creation" is qualified in verse 18 to be "the firstborn from the dead"

Do you think animals will be raised David?

By this, do you then believe JESUS is a created being as the Creation itself?

 

[Johann]

By this, do you then believe JESUS is a created being as the Creation itself?

Yep, that's what he believes, said so himself-apparently Jesus was just a concept in the mind of YHWH and when YHWH said--יְהִי (yĕhî)--Yeshua was "created"-what say you @David in NJ?

 

[face2face]

By this, do you then believe JESUS is a created being as the Creation itself?

But it is not the spiritual that comes first, but the natural, and then the spiritual. (1 Corinthians 15:46)

I assume you understand this, David?

First Adam - Last Adam
Christ in the flesh - Christ the firstfruits from the dead
Physical Creation - Spiritual Creation

I’m sure you’re seeing the pattern!

God's ultimate plan, often referred to as His "end game," is to have a purely spiritual creation, where sin and death are completely swallowed up.

Jesus is the first of this new creation, so yes, Jesus must be considered a created being to be part of that creation.

This is why the early church fathers invented the concepts of incarnation and dualism—to define what they thought the Godhead was, rather than what the Bible actually teaches.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Yep, that's what he believes, said so himself-apparently Jesus was just a concept in the mind of YHWH and when YHWH said--יְהִי (yĕhî)--Yeshua was "created"-what say you @David in NJ?

All God's children are created Johann!

“Who alone has immortality" 1 Tim 6:16

F2F

 

[APAK]

Hockey game on..........not avoiding you

priorities ...priorities I reckon

 

[Johann]

All God's children are created Johann!

“Who alone has immortality" 1 Tim 6:16

F2F

I can show you, right now, verses re Messiah's preexistence but just as you stumbled on the Priesthood of Jesus so will you stumble on these verses that I'm not going to post friend.

J.

 

[ProDeo]

Jesus is the first of this new creation, so yes, Jesus must be considered a created being to be part of that creation.

Like us Jesus was born, in that sense we are all creations of God.

But unlike us, Jesus descended from heaven as the Son of Man - John 3:13

Chew on that.

 

[David in NJ]

Yep, that's what he believes, said so himself-apparently Jesus was just a concept in the mind of YHWH and when YHWH said--יְהִי (yĕhî)--Yeshua was "created"-what say you @David in NJ?

What did the, under the Law Hebrew, who later became the New Covenant Holy Spirit filled Apostle and faithful witness of the Gospel write in his first breath = "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God"

And the WORD became flesh and dwelt among us.

Therefore JESUS is the Firstborn (Man) amongst ALL Creation =
the Creator emptied Himself and became a man to shed his Blood so that all who believe can be Forgiven and enter into Eternal LIFE.
JESUS tasted Death for everyman and DEFEATED Death because HE committed no sin therefore Death could not hold HIM.

MUCH more on this but i gotta go = Please cover for me.

 

[David in NJ]

priorities ...priorities I reckon

Forgive and we SEE Tomorrow

 

[face2face]

I can show you, right now, verses re Messiah's preexistence but just as you stumbled on the Priesthood of Jesus so will you stumble on these verses that I'm not going to post friend.

J.

All I've done here in Australia is watch the man from Durban stumble over and over and for now you have not gotten back up!

 

[Johann]

All I've done here in Australia is watch the man from Durban stumble over and over and for now you have not gotten back up!

I beg to differ.

J.

 

[face2face]

Like us Jesus was born, in that sense we are all creations of God.

But unlike us, Jesus descended from heaven as the Son of Man - John 3:13

Chew on that.

Correct, Pro. Jesus' origins came through the power of God, but this had nothing to do with his physical nature, as you likely realize by now. His life began in a womb, just like yours.

I came to digest that understanding over 30 years ago, and to be honest, it was quite satisfying.

 

[face2face]

I beg to differ.

J.

You can't, you have no light

 

[ProDeo]

All I've done here in Australia is watch the man from Durban stumble over and over and for now you have not gotten back up!

Why make it personal?

 

[Brakelite]

Brakelite, you can try to distance Christ from his own sacrifice in vain!

What are you talking about? How is that even possible? Why would I even bother? What are you trying to accomplish by saying that? And why are you trying to distance the sacrifice of the Father and Son from us?

 

[face2face]

Why make it personal?

Because he has stumbled many times (fact), and right now, he's not recovering with Trinitarian doctrine in his mind! I don’t think you fully understand how serious this debilitating illness is, Pro.

 

[face2face]

What

I believe this was in the context of you saying "Christ needed not to be redeemed".

That has well and truly been proven false in this thread.

F2F