Exploring Trinitarian Logic
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But the Holy Spirit is mentioned as a person in Scripture, look it up.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Dear David..we are Born Again of imperishable seed ..that liveth and abideth forever.?
No David the Living seed penetrates the spirit/ heart, the Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children, David,..we are Born Again of imperishable seed ..not we are Born Again of hearing David.
Do you understand David..that the seed is the Living Holy Spirit. ..why else or how else can we be Born Of The Spirit David.
Spirit gives birth to spirit for me it came by = supernatural divine heart revelation.
We’re on different levels of faith @David in NJ ..pretty obvious by what we post.
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
How does someone who is born-again determine if a doctrine/teaching as either:
a.) 'Pure/Truth'
b.) Unclean/Lie
How would you be able to recognize these people? = "there are many rebellious people, full of meaningless talk and deception"
Ritajanice
Born-Again
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
You said 'No"
What are you objecting to from Post 293 ???
Please know that i do love you in Christ and so does @Johann and many others on here who share with you.
The Holy Spirit only leads us into loving the Lord Jesus Christ who leads us to loving His FATHER = ALL 3 are TRUTH/SPIRIT/LIFE
Sometimes we can get testy with each, as my Brother @Johann and i have had our skirmishes = but never to hate or despise each other
We always come back to the Feet of JESUS - together in HIM we WIN
Many people find the doctrine of the Holy Spirit confusing. Is the Holy Spirit a force, a person, or something else? What does the Bible teach?
The Bible provides many ways to help us understand that the Holy Spirit is truly a person—that is, He is a personal being, rather than an impersonal thing. First, in almost every instance, pronouns used in reference to the Spirit are he and him, not it. In this way, the original Greek of the New Testament is explicit in confirming the person of the Holy Spirit. The word for “Spirit” (pneuma) is grammatically neuter and would naturally take neuter pronouns to have grammatical agreement. Yet, in many cases, masculine pronouns are found (e.g., John 15:26; 16:13–14). There is no other way to understand these ”ungrammatical” pronouns related to the Holy Spirit—He is a personal being, a “He.”
Matthew 28:19 teaches us to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is a collective reference to one Triune God. Also, we are not to grieve the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 4:30). The Spirit can be sinned against (Isaiah 63:10) and lied to (Acts 5:3). We are to obey Him (Acts 10:19–21) and honor Him (Psalm 51:11).
The personhood of the Holy Spirit is also affirmed by His many works. He was personally involved in creation (Genesis 1:2), empowers God’s people (Zechariah 4:6), guides (Romans 8:14), comforts (John 14:26), convicts (John 16:8), teaches (John 16:13), restrains sin (Isaiah 59:19), and gives commands (Acts 8:29). Each of these works requires the involvement of a person rather than a mere force, thing, or idea.
The Holy Spirit’s attributes also point to His personality. The Holy Spirit has life (Romans 8:2), has a will (1 Corinthians 12:11), is omniscient (1 Corinthians 2:10–11), is eternal (Hebrews 9:14), and is omnipresent (Psalm 139:7). A mere force could not possess all of these attributes, but the Holy Spirit does.
And the personhood of the Holy Spirit is affirmed by His role as the third Person of the Godhead. Only a being who is equal to God (Matthew 28:19) and possesses the attributes of omniscience, omnipresence, and eternality could be defined as God.
In Acts 5:3–4, Peter referred to the Holy Spirit as God, stating, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.” Paul likewise referred to the Holy Spirit as God in 2 Corinthians 3:17–18, stating, “Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.”
The Holy Spirit is a person, as Scripture makes clear. As such, He is to be revered as God and serves in perfect unity with Father and Son to lead us in our spiritual lives.
Is the Holy Spirit a person? | GotQuestions.org
Is the Holy Spirit a person? Is the Holy Spirit a force? Is the Holy Spirit the personification of God’s power?
www.gotquestions.org
J.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
I never said they didn’t my friend..you’re making an assumption of my character, please don’t do that.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
I posted scripture, I suggest you ask the Spirit..I’m not here to argue..
None of us are without error my friend..we are all searching for Gods truth.
We seek him out as you well know.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Yes, i SEE the scripture you post and i say - YES and AMEN
What about the CLEAR words of the LORD Jesus Christ and His apostle Peter in Post 293
Do you reject those CLEAR words of TRUTH ???
Things I already said -
1. Give everybody you talk too (considering they call themselves Christians in their profile) the benefit of the doubt that they (like you) are born again. Would be a great start.
2. As a result on [1] don't bombard disagreements you might have to death by repeating what is already in your signature.
Love.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
I don’t reject any word of Gods ..you need to understand that the JWS,You,Me...are all at different levels of understanding ..
You and I are also on different levels of faith.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
I suggest you do the same, as according to some of your posts addressed to JWS..plus me...you don’t.
If God places Born Again on my heart to post it will be done..I don’t take orders from you my friend.
Amigo does the same also..only different to me..it’s the Dire need to believe all over the forum
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Since you believe the words of God then you know that no one can be born-again if they have not received the Truth.
The SEED that the SPIRIT waters in us is the WORD that was GOD in the beginning.
JESUS is the WAY the TRUTH and the LIFE, no one comes to the FATHER but thru JESUS
This is the Understanding that came down from Heaven from the FATHER
Observe them carefully, for this will show your wisdom and understanding in the sight of the peoples, who will hear of all these statutes and say, “Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.”
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
What’s not convincing is trinitarian eisegesis. ‘Spiritual’ death is not a concept in Scripture. The trinity is not a concept in Scripture. No evidence is the opposite of plenty of evidence.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
No one can be Born Again without believing in Jesus..we already agree on that.
He never watered no seed in this Born Again sorry..I’ve already posted scripture .
David did you read my post...we are at different levels of faith?
God has brought you to understand his word his way..,you became Born Again differently to me..remember what @Rita said, I suggest you take it on board my friend, I’m not here to argue.
We are not @David in NJ to judge the testimonies of JWS, mine, or anyone else’s.
We are all equally searching for Gods truth, I just happen to agree about Jesus is not God the same as JWS believe..I’m not arguing over and over about it though, I voiced my belief and stand by it..I don’t need to keep forcing my belief over and over on the subject..it’s unedifying and unfruitful imo.
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Plenty evidence-
THE MIGHTY GOD BECOMES A MALE CHILD
The Hebrew Bible further testifies that the one true Mighty God of Israel will become a human male Child for the express purpose of ruling over David’s throne forever:
“But there shall be no more gloom for her who was in anguish. In the former time, he brought into contempt the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali; but in the latter time he has made it glorious, by the way of the sea, beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the nations. The people who walked in darkness have seen a great light. The light has shined on those who lived in the land of the shadow of death… For a child is born to us. A son is given to us; and the government will be on his shoulders. His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and of peace there shall be no end, on David’s throne, and on his kingdom, to establish it, and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from that time on, even forever. The zeal of Yahweh of Armies will perform this.” Isaiah 9:1-2, 6-7
That this Child is the human incarnation of YHWH can be seen from what the prophet goes on to say in the very next chapter:
“It will come to pass in that day that the remnant of Israel, and those who have escaped from the house of Jacob will no more again lean on him who struck them, but shall lean on Yahweh, the Holy One of Israel, in truth. A remnant will return, even the remnant of Jacob, to the mighty God.” Isaiah 10:20-21
YHWH is said to be the one true Mighty God whom Israel was to depend on. And since Isaiah is adamant that YHWH is the one and only God of all the earth,
“Haven’t you known? Haven’t you heard? The everlasting God, Yahweh, the Creator of the ends of the earth, doesn’t faint. He isn’t weary. His understanding is unsearchable.” Isaiah 40:28
“‘You are my witnesses,’ says Yahweh, ‘With my servant whom I have chosen; that you may know and believe me, and understand that I am he. Before me there was no God formed, neither will there be after me. I myself am Yahweh. Besides me, there is no savior.’” Isaiah 43:10-11
“Israel will be saved by Yahweh with an everlasting salvation. You will not be disappointed nor confounded to ages everlasting. For Yahweh who created the heavens, the God who formed the earth and made it, who established it and didn’t create it a waste, who formed it to be inhabited says: ‘I am Yahweh. There is no other. I have not spoken in secret, in a place of the land of darkness. I didn’t say to the offspring of Jacob, “Seek me in vain.” I, Yahweh, speak righteousness. I declare things that are right. Assemble yourselves and come. Draw near together, you who have escaped from the nations. Those have no knowledge who carry the wood of their engraved image, and pray to a god that can’t save. Declare and present it. Yes, let them take counsel together. Who has shown this from ancient time? Who has declared it of old? Haven’t I, Yahweh? There is no other God besides me, a just God and a Savior. There is no one besides me. Look to me, and be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other.’” Isaiah 45:17-22
Then it is obvious that the Child born is none other YHWH God Almighty that chose to be born as a Man!
The NT attributes this prophecy to Christ, thereby identifying him as the Mighty God who was born from the virgin Mary, being that uniquely begotten Son that God gave for the salvation of the world:
“Now when Jesus heard that John had been taken into custody, He withdrew into Galilee; and leaving Nazareth, He came and settled in Capernaum, which is by the sea, in the region of Zebulun and Naphtali. This happened so that what was spoken through Isaiah the prophet would be fulfilled: ‘The land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, By the way of the sea, on the other side of the Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles—The people who were sitting in darkness saw a great Light, And those who were sitting in the land and shadow of death, Upon them a Light dawned.’” Matthew 4:12-16 NASB
“Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city in Galilee named Nazareth, to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the descendants of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. And coming in, he said to her, ‘Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you.’ But she was very perplexed at this statement, and was pondering what kind of greeting this was. And the angel said to her, ‘Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and give birth to a son, and you shall name Him Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David; and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end.’ But Mary said to the angel, ‘How will this be, since I am a virgin?’ The angel answered and said to her, ‘The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; for that reason also the holy Child will be called the Son of God.’” Luke 1:26-35 NASB
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.” John 3:16 NASB
“But when the fullness of the time came, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,” Galatians 4:4 NASB
A PLURAL MAKER AND CREATOR
What makes this all the more astonishing is that the OT even goes so far as to employ plural participles in depicting the One God as a plural Creator/Maker. For instance, note what the following texts all say:
“But no one says, ‘Where is God my MAKERS (‘osay), who gives songs in the night,” Job 35:10
‘Osay is the plural masculine participle of ‘asa.
“Remember also thy Creators (boreka) in days of thy youth, While that the evil days come not, Nor the years have arrived, that thou sayest, `I have no pleasure in them.’” Ecclesiastes 12:1 Young’s Literal Translation (YLT)
Bore is the plural masculine participle form of bara.
“Let Israel rejoice in their MAKERS (be’osaw); Let Zion’s children rejoice in their King.” Psalm 149:2
‘Osa is the plural masculine participle form of ‘asa.
“For your MAKERS (‘osayik) is your HUSBANDS (bo’alayik); YHWH of hosts is his name. The Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer. He will be called the God of the whole earth.” Isaiah 54:5
Bo’alay and ‘osay is the plural masculine forms of baal and ‘asa respectively.
Now the Holy Bible attributes the work of creation and preservation to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (Cf. Genesis 1:1-2, 26-27; 2:4-7; Job 26:13; 33:4; Psalm 33:6; 104:29-30; John 1:1-4, 10, 14; 5:21, 26, 28-29; 6:63; 10:28; 11:25-26; 14:6; Acts 3:15; 17:24-31; 1 Corinthians 8:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6; 4:6; 1 Timothy 6:13; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:15-17; Hebrews 1:2-3, 10-12; 3:3-4; 11:3; Revelation 3:14; 4:11). This, therefore, accounts for why the inspired writings describe the one true God as the Creators and Makers of all things.
In light of the foregoing, could the divine Scriptures be any clearer that the one true God is a multi-personal Being as opposed to being a singular Person?
Unless indicated otherwise, all biblical citations taken from the World English Bible (WEB).
FURTHER READING
JEHOVAH GOD: OUR PLURAL CREATOR AND SUSTAINER
The Trinity: The Old Testament Evidence: A Multi-Personal God
The OT Evidence for God’s Uni-Plurality
Does the word Elohim in Genesis 1 point to God’s Triunity?
Anti-Trinitarians agree that the reason why God in the OT referred to Himself in the plural is because He was speaking with his Divine Son!
Evangelical Scholarship’s Struggle With OT Proofs For the Trinity
GOD THE SON IN THE OLD TESTAMENT
JEHOVAH GOD: OUR PLURAL CREATOR AND SUSTAINER
The Holy Scriptures bear witness that the God who created mankind in his image and likeness is in some sense a plural Creator-Maker: “Then God said, ‘Let US make man in OUR image, according to OUR …
answeringislamblog.wordpress.com
@ProDeo you might like this link.
J.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
There is only one level of faith that God commanded that we walk in = complete faith in His Word, the Lord Jesus Christ
If we fight against the Word, as the jws do, we fight against God and are no longer walking in the faith of JESUS
Beloved, although I made every effort to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt it necessary to write and urge you to contend earnestly for the faith entrusted once for all to the saints. For certain men have crept in among you unnoticed—ungodly ones who were designated long ago for condemnation.
They turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality, and they deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
I think you will find that there are different levels of faith in the word..check it out.
The JWS are spot on when it comes to Jesus... @Aunty Jane explained it well, imo..certainly resonated with my spirit...
The scripture you posted I don’t understand it..
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